Question What is the problem here and how do I resolve this ?

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Not lately it seems to me. The price difference between a good 750W unit and a good 850W unit can be as much as $40-50. Not much in the grand scheme of things, but a significant chunk of many budget builds.

The mid-range PSUs and the high end lower wattage units have more overlap. My current issue with recommendations is all the new ATX 3.1 PSUs that don't yet have reviews or teardowns. A minefield of similar model names and brand recognition.

In the case of transient spikes, relying on the protection is possibly desirable? Allows the PSU to briefly go beyond 100% duty cycle. Selecting your PSU so that it is larger than any possible transient means you are likely to be below optimal efficiency during regular operation. Not sure I have seen anyone investigate it from that perspective.

Older PSUs also allowed for excursions beyond 100%, but the duration was too short for the new larger GPUs. Seasonic Platinum units had serious issues with 3080/3090 cards as I recall, even though they were quite often 850W or 1000W units. OCP just kicked in too quickly and caused shutdowns.
From what I recall that was just the Focus gold and platinum units. I have seen reports for most of the seasonic PSUs from that era, including the PRIME units like the one I have, but it was unit to unit specific. Most people's PSUs in those model did fine.
 
From what I recall that was just the Focus gold and platinum units. I have seen reports for most of the seasonic PSUs from that era, including the PRIME units like the one I have, but it was unit to unit specific. Most people's PSUs in those model did fine.
Yes, it was a specific line of PSUs from Seasonic and its other label counterparts made by Seasonic. It was just the PSU to have around the time of the 1080 Ti/2080 Ti, and many people upgraded to 30 series and got shutdowns while gaming. Other PSUs had the same issue, but most were not as high quality/expensive units and the expectation wasn't there.

Interesting times. We went from everyone buying overkill PSUs after the old days of just getting whatever, to downsizing during the 600-10 series era to 500-550W PSUs, and then back to everyone needing 1000W units.
 
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I know I am pushing the limits with an 850w PSU
Thing is, your PSU is top-end and one of the best ones money can buy. So, your confidence in pushing your PSU has grounds, since PSU can handle it.

But fast majority of people will not buy top-end PSUs. Instead, they want to cheap out on PSU and get the cheapest possible. (B tier, C tier, rather than A or A+ tier.)
So, while top-end 850W unit is sufficient, same can not be said about lower quality units. Those can't be pushed at their limit, or they fail. So, for a safe bet, it is better to over-provision wattage wise.

If all PSUs sold would only be top-end ones (like Seasonic PRIME or Corsair AXi), then yes, we could narrow things down and suggest better wattage match PSU, since PSU can handle it. But since most of the PSUs out there aren't top-end, a safe margin, wattage wise, must remain.

however, I don't like how people assume wattage minimums arbitrarily with no testing or references to testing by reviewers.
For each individual CPU-GPU combo, there is data out there what each component can pull at max load (and quite a bit data on GPU transient spikes as well). So, if one would spend considerably more time to dig up all that data, one can calculate possible max wattage draw for CPU and GPU. The rest of the build (MoBo, RAM, SSD, fans etc) power draw can also be found out by the component specs/reviews. But to gather all that info - takes time.

So, i, personally, estimate 100W - 150W for the rest of the build (excluding CPU and GPU). My estimation also includes any possible hardware add-ons (fans, SSDs etc).
For that, i add the max wattage CPU can pull on turbo and also max wattage of GPU. Once all combined, i'll add +100-200W of safe margin (which also includes CPU/GPU OC) and that shows PSU's wattage.

For example, my main build;
CPU: i5-6600K - 91W TDP
GPU: GTX 1660 Ti - 120W TDP (140W at torture test in review)
Rest of the build: ~100W
Total: ~330W
Safe margin: 100W-200W = 550W or 650W PSU.

I'm running 650W unit: Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium [SSR-650TD].
But when i did the actual power consumption testing with wattmeter, my entire build (28W monitor included), at full synthetic bench load (Prime95 + Unigine Heaven at the same time), pulled 203.1W.
Or 175.1W without monitor.

So, "technically", my build is fine with 200W unit. But would i get such a small PSU for my build and pushing the PSU? Never.

The max power draw I say from the wall was 760w.
It is easy to test build's power draw when you have components at hand and also wattmeter to measure it. But for those who do not have components purchased, there is no such convenience.

When you want to run your PSU at it's limit - you do you. In the end of the day, your money.
But i can not suggest the same for the masses, since masses (for the most part), will not get a top-end PSU.
And for myself, personally, i have high standards regarding my own PSUs. Whereby i feel comfortable with a good safe margin.
 
Thing is, your PSU is top-end and one of the best ones money can buy. So, your confidence in pushing your PSU has grounds, since PSU can handle it.

But fast majority of people will not buy top-end PSUs. Instead, they want to cheap out on PSU and get the cheapest possible. (B tier, C tier, rather than A or A+ tier.)
So, while top-end 850W unit is sufficient, same can not be said about lower quality units. Those can't be pushed at their limit, or they fail. So, for a safe bet, it is better to over-provision wattage wise.

If all PSUs sold would only be top-end ones (like Seasonic PRIME or Corsair AXi), then yes, we could narrow things down and suggest better wattage match PSU, since PSU can handle it. But since most of the PSUs out there aren't top-end, a safe margin, wattage wise, must remain.


For each individual CPU-GPU combo, there is data out there what each component can pull at max load (and quite a bit data on GPU transient spikes as well). So, if one would spend considerably more time to dig up all that data, one can calculate possible max wattage draw for CPU and GPU. The rest of the build (MoBo, RAM, SSD, fans etc) power draw can also be found out by the component specs/reviews. But to gather all that info - takes time.

So, i, personally, estimate 100W - 150W for the rest of the build (excluding CPU and GPU). My estimation also includes any possible hardware add-ons (fans, SSDs etc).
For that, i add the max wattage CPU can pull on turbo and also max wattage of GPU. Once all combined, i'll add +100-200W of safe margin (which also includes CPU/GPU OC) and that shows PSU's wattage.

For example, my main build;
CPU: i5-6600K - 91W TDP
GPU: GTX 1660 Ti - 120W TDP (140W at torture test in review)
Rest of the build: ~100W
Total: ~330W
Safe margin: 100W-200W = 550W or 650W PSU.

I'm running 650W unit: Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium [SSR-650TD].
But when i did the actual power consumption testing with wattmeter, my entire build (28W monitor included), at full synthetic bench load (Prime95 + Unigine Heaven at the same time), pulled 203.1W.
Or 175.1W without monitor.

So, "technically", my build is fine with 200W unit. But would i get such a small PSU for my build and pushing the PSU? Never.


It is easy to test build's power draw when you have components at hand and also wattmeter to measure it. But for those who do not have components purchased, there is no such convenience.

When you want to run your PSU at it's limit - you do you. In the end of the day, your money.
But i can not suggest the same for the masses, since masses (for the most part), will not get a top-end PSU.
And for myself, personally, i have high standards regarding my own PSUs. Whereby i feel comfortable with a good safe margin.
The problem I see in general with PSU wattage recommendations is that people overprovision something that is already overprovisioned. Your man build for example. Assuming they exist, an A tier 400w PSU would have been around double what you can actually have that system pull in testing. The theoretical max draw for all components cumulatively added up plus adding a 100-200 watts buffer is way overboard. Its nearly impossible in practical use to have everything reach peak draw simultaneously. I am definitely not advocating for people to buy lower quality PSUs, just that wattage recommendations of said PSUs seem to always err on the extreme side of 'more than needed.'
 
Assuming they exist, an A tier 400w PSU would have been around double what you can actually have that system pull in testing.
There are some A tier 450W units out there, like: Be Quiet Straight Power 11, Bitfenix Formula Gold/Whisper M and Seasonic Focus Gold GM/PRIME Fanless. There are also few SFX/SFX-L 450W A tier PSUs.
But the thing is, only Bitfenix Whisper M 450 was available back in 2016 when i built my build. All other listed are newer PSUs and weren't available back then.

I am definitely not advocating for people to buy lower quality PSUs, just that wattage recommendations of said PSUs seem to always err on the extreme side of 'more than needed.'
With over-provision wattage wise, there is actually another reason. And that is to do with build upgrades.

Good/great quality PSUs can last easy 7-10 years. While many folks upgrade their GPU in 2-4 years. And as the trend goes, newer GPUs (and CPUs too) have higher power consumption than older ones.
So, rather than suggesting on spot wattage PSU, whereby when GPU (or CPU) upgrade rolls around and person has to upgrade their PSU as well, while junking otherwise fine and well working PSU - with higher wattage capacity PSU, they can keep running their PSU for many years more.
So, there's that as well.

For example, your build has no CPU/GPU upgrade paths unless you replace your PSU as well. While you may be fine spending needlessly more money and junking your 12 year warranty PSU far before PSU actually would be needed to be replaced, many people do not have the funds to buy new PSU alongside new GPU (or CPU) as well.

On that note and since i'm running 650W unit and not 200W or 450W unit, i can comfortably upgrade my CPU and GPU to better ones, without junking my top-end powerplant. And i'm actually on the market for upgrade. Current plan is 9800X3D and RTX 5060 or so. But if i would have 450W unit, i'd need to buy new PSU as well, wasting money and junking otherwise fine running PSU since it doesn't have the wattage capacity.
 
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Thanks a lot to everyone for all your help, suggestions, and technical support!

I'm happy to report that I’ve resolved the issue with my system and also took the opportunity to upgrade my PSU and am getting a new GPU.
I'm currently being offered the following GPUs:
  • RX 6700 XT – $225 (used)
  • Intel Arc A770 – $350 (new)
  • RTX 3060 – $175 (used)
Which of these would you pick, considering price, performance, and mid-future-proofing?

My priorities are good 1080p/1440p gaming performance, VRAM longevity, and overall value. I don’t need cutting-edge ray tracing, but decent driver support and long-term reliability matter to me.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me troubleshoot and improve my setup. I really appreciate it!
 
For example, your build has no CPU/GPU upgrade paths unless you replace your PSU as well. While you may be fine spending needlessly more money and junking your 12 year warranty PSU far before PSU actually would be needed to be replaced, many people do not have the funds to buy new PSU alongside new GPU (or CPU) as well.
I agree. My original build was a 3900x and a 2070s, then got a 3080, then a while later the 5800X3D on release day, and then 2 months or so ago I got a 5090. An entire PC build has to be considered within a budget. If you can get away with a lower wattage A tier PSU to get a faster CPU, GPU, better motherboard, et cetera, that should be considered but just know that a limitation may be set in the future to do so. Do I want more power now, or less limitations later? It's a balancing act. I often see the balance tipping much further into large capacity PSUs now at the cost of performance now with recommendations. This matters less the larger the budget is, and matter more the lower the budget is. Just my humble opinion.
 
Thanks a lot to everyone for all your help, suggestions, and technical support!

I'm happy to report that I’ve resolved the issue with my system and also took the opportunity to upgrade my PSU and am getting a new GPU.
I'm currently being offered the following GPUs:
  • RX 6700 XT – $225 (used)
  • Intel Arc A770 – $350 (new)
  • RTX 3060 – $175 (used)
Which of these would you pick, considering price, performance, and mid-future-proofing?

My priorities are good 1080p/1440p gaming performance, VRAM longevity, and overall value. I don’t need cutting-edge ray tracing, but decent driver support and long-term reliability matter to me.

Thanks again to everyone who helped me troubleshoot and improve my setup. I really appreciate it!
Among those I believe the 6700 XT strikes the right balance. Intel graphics drivers have come a long way but are still a bit of a concern with older games. The 6700 XT is roughly the same performance as the 1080 ti as well. The more you spend now, the less you will have in the future for a truly massive graphics performance or platform upgrade.
 
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I'm currently being offered the following GPUs:
  • RX 6700 XT – $225 (used)
  • Intel Arc A770 – $350 (new)
  • RTX 3060 – $175 (used)
Which of these would you pick, considering price, performance, and mid-future-proofing?
Personally, i'd go with Intel as well. Not because it is the most expensive one, but because it is new and comes with a warranty. While other two have no warranty. And that RTX 3060 could be ex-mining GPU.

Here's a good vid about if it is good idea to buy used GPUs or not;
(Starts at 11:42)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Yp6pQRdns#t=11m42s


With hardware, you have 2 choices;

1, Buy from questionable source, no-name hardware and play the lottery that you MIGHT get decent piece of hardware for paying peanuts.
Buying used always has it's risks and getting working hardware is 50:50 chance. Either it works and you scored a great deal (hence why people buy used hardware in the 1st place, to get great deals), or it doesn't work (or works partly) and you have a nice paperweight. Not to mention money wasted + your own time and effort troubleshooting it.

2. Buy from reputable source, brand name, brand new hardware, get warranty, be assured it works, while paying proper price for it.

I, personally, am not rich enough to buy used hardware. Thus, i only buy brand new stuff.

Do I want more power now, or less limitations later? It's a balancing act.
Yes, it is a balance.

If good/great quality PSUs would last 2-4 years, then it would be easy. Just get on-spot wattage PSU and replace the whole build in every 2-4 years. But since good/great quality PSUs last 7-10 years, one needs to consider what future could bring. Nowadays, it's easy for good PSU to last through 2-3 builds, until PSU itself is replaced.

I often see the balance tipping much further into large capacity PSUs now at the cost of performance now with recommendations. This matters less the larger the budget is, and matter more the lower the budget is. Just my humble opinion.
The thing is, i don't know the financial situation of anyone i'm suggesting PSUs to. In 2-4 years time when GPU upgrade rolls around, they may have more funds or they may have less.

Some scenarios:
1. If, by that time (2-4 years), they have more funds and on-spot PSU was suggested - great, they can buy new PSU too.
But it would be waste of the old PSU, which has many more years still on it.
2. If they have more funds and higher capacity PSU was suggested - great, they can save money not buying a new PSU.
3. If they do not have more funds and higher capacity PSU was suggested - great, they barely make it and use old PSU.
4. If they do not have more funds and on-spot PSU was suggested - they are screwed. Without funds for new PSU, PSU will be a limiting factor.

When considering PSU's lifespan and component upgrades, suggesting on-spot PSU is bad idea in both situations.
More funds situation means more electronical waste.
Less funds situation means person is screwed and stuck with their PSU.
While suggesting higher capacity PSU has win-win in both funds situations.

I don't favor short-term gains. Instead, i favor long-term gains.
 
Due to the lack of available GPUs right now, my friend picked up an A770. He has no complaints. Had to switch to AV1 for streaming, which took a bit to get right, but other than that, everything works for him. Mostly newer games, but old game support on Intel isn't half bad now. My understanding is it translates older DX to Vulkan to run, but it has been a while since I tinkered with it. I poked around with my A380 in the early days of the driver when it was still terrible. DX12 titles worked quite well, I don't think I had any Vulkan capable titles at the time.

He previously had an RTX 3060, but his whole system did not survive a direct lightning strike to the local grid.
 
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Personally, i'd go with Intel as well. Not because it is the most expensive one, but because it is new and comes with a warranty. While other two have no warranty. And that RTX 3060 could be ex-mining GPU.

Here's a good vid about if it is good idea to buy used GPUs or not;
(Starts at 11:42)

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Yp6pQRdns#t=11m42s


With hardware, you have 2 choices;

1, Buy from questionable source, no-name hardware and play the lottery that you MIGHT get decent piece of hardware for paying peanuts.
Buying used always has it's risks and getting working hardware is 50:50 chance. Either it works and you scored a great deal (hence why people buy used hardware in the 1st place, to get great deals), or it doesn't work (or works partly) and you have a nice paperweight. Not to mention money wasted + your own time and effort troubleshooting it.

2. Buy from reputable source, brand name, brand new hardware, get warranty, be assured it works, while paying proper price for it.

I, personally, am not rich enough to buy used hardware. Thus, i only buy brand new stuff.


Yes, it is a balance.

If good/great quality PSUs would last 2-4 years, then it would be easy. Just get on-spot wattage PSU and replace the whole build in every 2-4 years. But since good/great quality PSUs last 7-10 years, one needs to consider what future could bring. Nowadays, it's easy for good PSU to last through 2-3 builds, until PSU itself is replaced.


The thing is, i don't know the financial situation of anyone i'm suggesting PSUs to. In 2-4 years time when GPU upgrade rolls around, they may have more funds or they may have less.

Some scenarios:
1. If, by that time (2-4 years), they have more funds and on-spot PSU was suggested - great, they can buy new PSU too.
But it would be waste of the old PSU, which has many more years still on it.
2. If they have more funds and higher capacity PSU was suggested - great, they can save money not buying a new PSU.
3. If they do not have more funds and higher capacity PSU was suggested - great, they barely make it and use old PSU.
4. If they do not have more funds and on-spot PSU was suggested - they are screwed. Without funds for new PSU, PSU will be a limiting factor.

When considering PSU's lifespan and component upgrades, suggesting on-spot PSU is bad idea in both situations.
More funds situation means more electronical waste.
Less funds situation means person is screwed and stuck with their PSU.
While suggesting higher capacity PSU has win-win in both funds situations.

I don't favor short-term gains. Instead, i favor long-term gains.
In general, I believe we agree.

The way this topic is talked about may lead people to believe, as a hypothetical, a 750w PSU is the minimum for a 400-500w max peak system is obviously wrong. If they were to get an A tier 750w PSU, they would be able to do a <450w graphics card for the entire lifetime of the PSU assuming no 300w CPUs are used. A good 750w PSU costs 70-90 dollars vs a 1kw PSU recommendation that would cost 140-170. If that extra cash, as the difference in price, means a substantial performance increase in CPU/GPU within the same budget, then the options need to be weighed accordingly. Maybe it's the difference between a 1TB cacheless drive for the OS vs a 2TB drive with a DRAM cache. What matters most to any particular OP is in play. The combinations are endless and at a low budget the pressure in spending double on a PSU that is of similar quality but has more headroom may not be the right decision if they do not plan on multiple upgrades or even one such as a <450w graphics card.
 
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