Question What'd I do wrong?

Jan 20, 2020
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So I just built a new computer (my 2nd, but 1st was 11 years ago), components are:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 (using stock cooler, Wraith Stealth with preapplied thermal paste)
MPG X570 Gaming Edge Wifi
EVGA GeForce GTX 1660 Super
Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3600 x 16GB
2x Samsung 860 QVO 1TB
Corsair RM650x
NZXT H510


In the case I've got the 2 stock fans, 120mm top and rear (both exhaust) and 2 140mm front fans pulling air in. I know there's a debate about having front fans in this case and I haven't tried disconnecting them yet, but regardless of some of the youtube videos and reviews I watched/read, it just makes sense to me to pull in some cool air, but maybe I'm wrong. I also live in a very dusty environment and positive air pressure in the case sounds like a good idea to me (if I'm right that that is in fact what I've set up).

Right now I've got Game Boost switched off in the BIOS and I see my cores running at anywhere from 2.85 to 4.175 Ghz (I don't understand why they bounce all over the place).

Problem right now is that the cpu is idling anywhere from 40's to 60's and jumps all over the place. Something as simple as loading a browser can jump it to the mid 70's momentarily and higher a couple times. I've briefly run prime95 on it and it spiked instantly to 92, then back to the 80's where it steadily climbed over a few minutes, I stopped the test at 88 but I'm quite sure it would have kept going up.

I've run FurMark on the gpu and it won't climb past 71. The cpu during the test climbed to 76 (much more steady though, barely moves which I don't understand) and spiked to 88 when I was doing some web browsing at the same time.

By my understanding, this case is subject to somewhat poor air flow, however , my assumption right now is that the air flow in the case must be decent or the gpu would be getting a lot hotter.

Most of my reading led me to believe that both the stock cooler and preapplied past would be sufficient. I'll overclock, but probably not to extremes.

So, anybody willing to venture a guess as to what I've done wrong? Is the stock thermal paste no good? Did I manage to mess it up when I installed the cooler? I tried to be careful about placing the cooler on the cpu and I tightened down the screws on the cooler until they bottomed out. Do I need a better cooler?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

- Chris
 
It's not really a huge issue and is quite normal considering the smaller cooler on the Ryzen 5 3600. It's sufficient, but just sufficient enough to keep it form getting too hot. They are quite noisy to me and I suggest upgrading to a bigger, quieter cooler.

Their stock thermal paste works okay, not the best. Also, when you go to remove the stock cooler, the stock thermal paste is like glue. It will pull your CPU out with it unless you heat up your CPU just before removing the cooler.
 
Reactions: Karadjgne
Jan 20, 2020
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Thanks for the fast reply, and I totally agree about the noise level on the stock cooler, its as loud or louder than my 11 year old rig with worn out and dying fans.
I've been think about just buying a Noctua D15 and cram that into the case. I wasn't wanting to spend the money so I was hoping to get by with the stock cooler. I'm ok with buying it if I have to, but didn't want to jump the gun and spend a bunch of money in case all I needed to do was to reapply some paste.
Thanks for the advice on removing the cooler, I'll definitely heat it up 1st if I do that route.

- Chris
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Nothing done wrong. It's totally normal behavior for a Ryzen, it's different than what ppl base ideas on after dealing with Intel.

There's no debate over front fans. Intakes are important to airflow. Period. Whether they pull in the best or worst amount of air is a different story, but any air is better than none, so disconnecting them would be a bad idea, and whomever suggested that in a review/youtube is a moron, pure and simple.

Prime95 is a cpu stress, Furmark is a gpu stress. They differ slightly because all frames are pre-rendered by the cpu. So it's possible to stress just the cpu, but not the gpu, as the gpu will get all it's frames from the cpu. Because games bounce violently with differences in view and background, fps will bounce too, but Furmark is a whole lot less 'bouncy' as it's designed for gpu punishment and isn't subject to user intervention. You don't control a toon, a gun, shooting, throwing, running etc, so the code is more video-like, a cut-scene, not actual in game performance. So its fps doesn't swing from very high to very low and back, it'll stay at very high. Stressing the gpu. And to some extent, the cpu too.
 
Reactions: Schlachtwolf
Jan 20, 2020
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So are you saying those cpu temps are ok? They seem awfully hot to me, but I'm certainly no authority. Just between the time I posted last, I went outside for awhile, came back and the cpu has hit 89 degrees. Dunno what the computer did while I was gone, nothing but a browser, CoreTemp and HWiNFO64 running, so I don't know what reason it had to get that hot.
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand if that was the gist of your post, thanks for the help.

- Chris



Nothing done wrong. It's totally normal behavior for a Ryzen, it's different than what ppl base ideas on after dealing with Intel.

There's no debate over front fans. Intakes are important to airflow. Period. Whether they pull in the best or worst amount of air is a different story, but any air is better than none, so disconnecting them would be a bad idea, and whomever suggested that in a review/youtube is a moron, pure and simple.

Prime95 is a cpu stress, Furmark is a gpu stress. They differ slightly because all frames are pre-rendered by the cpu. So it's possible to stress just the cpu, but not the gpu, as the gpu will get all it's frames from the cpu. Because games bounce violently with differences in view and background, fps will bounce too, but Furmark is a whole lot less 'bouncy' as it's designed for gpu punishment and isn't subject to user intervention. You don't control a toon, a gun, shooting, throwing, running etc, so the code is more video-like, a cut-scene, not actual in game performance. So its fps doesn't swing from very high to very low and back, it'll stay at very high. Stressing the gpu. And to some extent, the cpu too.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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Load. Idle would be 45-55C, and doing light stuff would make it go higher. Idle temps aren't anything to worry about unless they are the same as load temps.
Ok, so are you not alarmed that prime95 pushed it to 88 after a couple minutes? Sitting close to idle right now, just a browser and the monitoring software running, it's reading high 60's and low 70's. Sorry if I'm being dense, I'm pretty confused at the moment because after all the reading of done recently about temps, these seem really high to me. Am I just being too worried about not much?
 
I've been think about just buying a Noctua D15 and cram that into the case. I wasn't wanting to spend the money so I was hoping to get by with the stock cooler. I'm ok with buying it if I have to, but didn't want to jump the gun and spend a bunch of money in case all I needed to do was to reapply some paste.
If you want an aftermarket cooler, you probably don't need to go that high-end. There are a number of tower coolers costing less than half as much that should keep this CPU running a lot cooler and quieter than the stock cooler. The 3600 doesn't put out an excessive amount of heat, but the bundled Wraith Stealth is a bit on the smallish-side as far as Ryzen stock coolers go (it's about half the height of the Wraith Spire on the 3600X), making it not much better than Intel's stock heatsinks. A more moderately-priced 120mm tower cooler like a Freezer 34 or Hyper 212 Black should handle heat output a lot better than the bundled cooler.

As for Prime 95, it's not exactly a realistic scenario as far as typically desktop processor load goes, so high temperatures are to be expected when running that.
 
Ok, so are you not alarmed that prime95 pushed it to 88 after a couple minutes? Sitting close to idle right now, just a browser and the monitoring software running, it's reading high 60's and low 70's. Sorry if I'm being dense, I'm pretty confused at the moment because after all the reading of done recently about temps, these seem really high to me. Am I just being too worried about not much?
Yeah, they are a little high. But running Prime95 on the wraith prism + Ryzen 5 3600 doesn't surprise me that it reaches 88C. I had the Wraith Max and my 2700X would reach 85C or more running Prime95.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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Yeah, they are a little high. But running Prime95 on the wraith prism + Ryzen 5 3600 doesn't surprise me that it reaches 88C. I had the Wraith Max and my 2700X would reach 85C or more running Prime95.
Ok, and it definitely would have gone higher, I just stopped the test at 88C because it was making me nervous. I guess I'll get a better cooler and try again. Thanks again for the advice.
 
Jan 20, 2020
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If you want an aftermarket cooler, you probably don't need to go that high-end. There are a number of tower coolers costing less than half as much that should keep this CPU running a lot cooler and quieter than the stock cooler. The 3600 doesn't put out an excessive amount of heat, but the bundled Wraith Stealth is a bit on the smallish-side as far as Ryzen stock coolers go (it's about half the height of the Wraith Spire on the 3600X), making it not much better than Intel's stock heatsinks. A more moderately-priced 120mm tower cooler like a Freezer 34 or Hyper 212 Black should handle heat output a lot better than the bundled cooler.

As for Prime 95, it's not exactly a realistic scenario as far as typically desktop processor load goes, so high temperatures are to be expected when running that.
Ok, I'll look into those for sure. Thanks for the help.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
At idle, Intels drop voltages and clocks on every core, but all cores remain active. That's why they sit at such low temps, with occasional spikes upto the 50's. Windows tasks only use one core at a time, so the loads are split over all the cores in segments.

With Ryzens, at idle they shut the cores down completely, leaving just 1 core active, so all of windows tasks are on that one core. So it's active constantly, not periodically. You look at that 50+°C as the whole cpu, it isn't, it's just 1 core, the rest are asleep and waiting for input.

So Ryzen idle temps are always artificially high when compared to Intel, and because ppl are so indoctrinated with Intel temps, they freak out. You aren't the first, won't be the last.

Stock coolers are designed to keep cpus under throttle temps with normal operations. That's as far as they go. Prime95 is anything but 'normal', it's extreme, so can easily put a cpu into above throttle areas. You'll never websurf enough to come close to what Prime abuses a cpu to, no youtube, no music, no games. It's a 100% load on every core, every thread. You'll be lucky to see a game put that load on half your cores. It takes intense rendering or similar to get close. Which is also extreme.

It's the difference between going for a mile long walk and running that mile as fast as you can sprint. Tell me which makes you sweat, leaves you gasping for air, if you can even accomplish that feat without passing out. You stopped the test at 88°C, quit running after 100yards.

Larger coolers have greater capacity, more overall surface area to dissipate heat. Idle or load, that's going to lower temps, upto a point. Then it's all on the efficiency of the fan vrs the surface area vs cpu output.
 
Reactions: Schlachtwolf
Jan 20, 2020
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At idle, Intels drop voltages and clocks on every core, but all cores remain active. That's why they sit at such low temps, with occasional spikes upto the 50's. Windows tasks only use one core at a time, so the loads are split over all the cores in segments.

With Ryzens, at idle they shut the cores down completely, leaving just 1 core active, so all of windows tasks are on that one core. So it's active constantly, not periodically. You look at that 50+°C as the whole cpu, it isn't, it's just 1 core, the rest are asleep and waiting for input.

So Ryzen idle temps are always artificially high when compared to Intel, and because ppl are so indoctrinated with Intel temps, they freak out. You aren't the first, won't be the last.

Stock coolers are designed to keep cpus under throttle temps with normal operations. That's as far as they go. Prime95 is anything but 'normal', it's extreme, so can easily put a cpu into above throttle areas. You'll never websurf enough to come close to what Prime abuses a cpu to, no youtube, no music, no games. It's a 100% load on every core, every thread. You'll be lucky to see a game put that load on half your cores. It takes intense rendering or similar to get close. Which is also extreme.

It's the difference between going for a mile long walk and running that mile as fast as you can sprint. Tell me which makes you sweat, leaves you gasping for air, if you can even accomplish that feat without passing out. You stopped the test at 88°C, quit running after 100yards.

Larger coolers have greater capacity, more overall surface area to dissipate heat. Idle or load, that's going to lower temps, upto a point. Then it's all on the efficiency of the fan vrs the surface area vs cpu output.
Thanks for that info. It's a little unclear to me what would be your suggestion given what you wrote. Are you suggesting that I'll be fine for "normal" operations with the stock cooler and to stop worrying so much? Thanks.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Exactly. The Wraith you have is adequate. That's all. It's not great (well, it's awesome compared to AMD's more historic stock coolers!) but adequate. There's most definitely better, many of the budget coolers from Arctic, like the esports 33 duo will be plenty to drop temps considerably.

You are just so used to seeing ppl with Intels and temps at idle in the 30's that 50+ freaked you out. You'll need a better cooler if you want to run lower temps. AMD wouldn't have stuck that cooler on that cpu if it was unusable, be a waste of money.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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I have a NZXT H500 witch i switched to a MC H500 mesh front becouse i thought it was a "case" of bad airflow. Got the same temps on MC as on NZXT with stock fans so i have just orderd a new cooler wich i should get on monday if lucky friday.

All the test i have seen on youtube concludes that stock air fan setup is the best and the worst you can do is to put fans in the front.
So i would first try to remove the front fans not just disconnect but remove them. If that dosent help then look at a CPU cooler maybe.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
No. Absolutely not. I don't know what youtube video's you are watching but they are so full of **** it's incredible. And your information is only half baked.
All the test i have seen on youtube concludes that stock air fan setup is the best and the worst you can do is to put fans in the front.
Stock fan setup is 2x 200mm fans in the front and a single 120mm fan in rear exhaust. So make up your mind. Better yet I'll explain what you missed. The stock 2x 200mm fans are better than mounting faster rpm 140mm fans or better than using a 280mm/360mm AIO for airflow. That absolutely does not mean the 2x 200mm fans should be either disconnected or removed, leaving a single 120mm exhaust fan. That's asinine. What you missed was that the original H500 came with a glass front and sucked for airflow, that was changed to a mesh front option which greatly improved airflow. It has nothing to do with disconnecting or removal of the fans other than replacing the fans with lower volume sizes is a bad idea.

You can do anything with the mesh front option, any fan, any aio, but if the original H500 then use the 2x 200mm, 120mm exhaust and another fan mounted top-rear.
 
Reactions: aldan and Phaaze88
Jan 17, 2020
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Im talking about the NXZT H500 that only comes stock wit one 120mm top exaust fan and one 120mm exaust fan on the rear and from my experience and others the NZXT H500 preforms best with stock settings. Again NZXT NOT MASTERCOOLER.
The OP has NXZT H510 wich i understand is the same setup as NZXT H500
 
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Jan 17, 2020
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All i am saying is that from what i tested and what others (not all) it looks like the NZXT H5xx works best with negative airpressur and front inntake fans can give less cooling. Thats why i sugest to him to remove the front fans and test it. If it gets worse just put them back on. I would also take of the CPU cooler and look if it might be to litle termo paste on it. Then wipe the old off and put on new paste.
Its easy work and its done and tested in less then 30min.

If that fails then maybe look at a new cpu cooler
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
That's exactly why you need front fans. The exhaust fans draw is only so strong, and the strongest area is closest to the fan. What that'll do is pull air from the closest higher pressure area, which is the slots and gaps around the gpu, near the exhaust grills, next to the top fan. You'll get almost no flow from anywhere near the front of the case. Meaning the cpu cooler is trying to do double duty, it'll pull air from the fan grill above it, which is why it 'looks' similar in cpu temps, but really doesn't pull air across any drives, Sata chipsets etc from lower down in the bottom right hand side of the mobo. You punish the rest of the pc with artificial cpu temps.

That applies to the gpu as well, it's fans will pull from the lower pci slots, which is far from effective, and gpu temps under higher stress will skyrocket.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Well the didnt work on my NZXT H500. It didnt lower the temps and it might have raised it a few celcius. Thats my experience on my case dont know what you have
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Which temps. Disconnecting the front fans means the cpu cooler will be pulling air from the fan vent above it. It's a short trip. So you'll see lower or similar cpu temps, but instead of the Sata chipsets running @ 90°C, they'll be running at closer to, if not above 100°C since they are below the cpu and get no airflow at all. You are basing the entire pc temps on cpu and/or gpu, which is bad. Same goes for the Northbridge (PCH) chipset which is a major heatsinked chipset and controls all of the pcie connections.
 

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