Question Which new CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12A or Phantom Spirit 120 SE ?

[AlmightyKing]

Hey Yall

CPU: i9-12900k

For the past month and half, I've been having an external crisis on what CPU cooler to get.

I have a Noctua NU-U12A that Ive been using for the past 4 years and a Phantom Spirit 120 SE which i recently bought.

If I choose the Noctua route, I will more than likely just buy the Noctua NH--U12A Chroma black 120mm to replace my old U12A since its pushing year 5 and i can't seem to solve this thermal throttling issue im getting on XTU.

Tried undervolting but the CPU still pushes 85+ during heavy gaming. Mostly just trying to solve the thermal throttling issue.

 

[Lutfij]

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...4070-ti-super-i9-12900k.3844398/post-23260081
Your issue is not the cooler...well partially it is, you have what amounts to a microwave or what reviewers have dubbed as a HotBox, instead of a MasterBox.

Breadboard your parts and then see what sort of temps you get, if you see lower temps, then you need to change the case, nothing else.

 

[NedSmelly]

A Noctua air cooler shouldn't degrade its performance over 5 years. A new identical replacement will perform exactly the same as your old one. And an NH-U12A is up there in terms of cooling performance.

Agree with the sentiment that the problem lies elsewhere. Either a case issue, a BIOS power setting issue (especially an i9), or both. What's your power limits? Is it MSI's wild "4096W"?

 

[TheHerald]

Im using a u12a on my 12900k - I've even used in on a 13900k, no problem whatsoever. If you are hitting 85C - especially in gaming, something is really wrong there. IHS bend maybe?

If you have a high end GPU and not a good case for airflow it might be that your case airflow is the probably. Open the side panel and play your games and see if the temperatures drop.

 

[AlmightyKing]

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...4070-ti-super-i9-12900k.3844398/post-23260081
You issue is not the cooler...well partially it is, you have what amounts to a microwave or what reviewers have dubbed as a HotBox, instead of a MasterBox.

Breadboard your parts and then see what sort of temps you get, if you see lower temps, then you need to change the case, nothing else.

Well Hello Again.

Alot of my friends have said the similar thing, the cooler master case im running is literally a microwave with poor cooling. Is it recommend that I finally give up the old cooling master case and move into another one?

If so, do you have any recommended micro-ATX cases? I love how small the Cooler Master MasterBox Q500L box is. I travel a lot so its easy to just throw this case into a suitcase and setup in whatever desk I'm at. Hoping i don't have finally move up to a bigger case.

 

[Lutfij]

You seem to be in haste to spend money. To prove whether what I've said is true or false, perhaps try and breadboard the system innards and see if your temps improve/drop.

We can move forward with a different case as we progress through this thread. Might want to include your location, your budget and your preferred site for purchase if your temps improve after breadboarding.

 

[AlmightyKing]

A Noctua air cooler shouldn't degrade its performance over 5 years. A new identical replacement will perform exactly the same as your old one. And an NH-U12A is up there in terms of cooling performance.

Agree with the sentiment that the problem lies elsewhere. Either a case issue, a BIOS power setting issue (especially an i9), or both. What's your power limits? Is it MSI's wild "4096W"?

Im starting to guess its a airflow problem for the case at this point.

The case alone is getting more fingers pointed at it than anything.
And speaking that ive thrown three coolers into this case and still managed to get 85-90 degrees when running RT heavy games and thermal throttling whenever i run XTU.

Is it time to say goodbye to the cooler master once and for all?

 

[AlmightyKing]

You seem to be in haste to spend money. To prove whether what I've said is true or false, perhaps try and breadboard the system innards and see if your temps improve/drop.

We can move forward with a different case as we progress through this thread. Might want to include your location, your budget and your preferred site for purchase if your temps improve after breadboarding.

Explain Breed boarding, never tried it before.

On a second note, I took the Thermal Right cooler out and threw the NH-U12A back in, reapplied the thermal paste and move a fan around and manged to see some temps change. XTU managed to stress test the CPU past the 3min market before finally throwing thermal throttling, then it just sat at 90+ degrees.

Another note, im also getting this weird power limit throttling and current /EDP limit throttling as well. No clue what that is.

XTU screenshot

For case budgets, nothing too ridiculous. To put into perspective, this cooler master was $50 when i bought it. Something below $100 is idle for me.

 

[AlmightyKing]

Im using a u12a on my 12900k - I've even used in on a 13900k, no problem whatsoever. If you are hitting 85C - especially in gaming, something is really wrong there. IHS bend maybe?

If you have a high end GPU and not a good case for airflow it might be that your case airflow is the probably. Open the side panel and play your games and see if the temperatures drop.

I figured 85C was normal during a full load or when gaming. Had no clue there would be something wrong. As for IHS bend, i have no clue what that would be.

Im running a 4070ti super and i dont see a temperature problem with it, even when overclocking it with MSI afterburner. I dont exactly remember the Temps when gaming so I'll get back with you once I test it. As for the panels, I have had both covers off the case for about a year now, when i throw on the panels when i see an increase in temperature.

Which is why im starting to really think its a case problem.

 

[TheHerald]

I figured 85C was normal during a full load or when gaming. Had no clue there would be something wrong. As for IHS bend, i have no clue what that would be.

Im running a 4070ti super and i dont see a temperature problem with it, even when overclocking it with MSI afterburner. I dont exactly remember the Temps when gaming so I'll get back with you once I test it. As for the panels, I have had both covers off the case for about a year now, when i throw on the panels when i see an increase in temperature.

Which is why im starting to really think its a case problem.

Step 1) Use HWINFO
Step 2) Run XTU
Step 3) Observe power draw and individual core temperatures.

It might be that one of the cores is hitting 100c while the rest sit at 80C or whatever.
If you are thermal throttling while pulling 220watts or more that's kinda normal. A bit on the high side but still - around 240-250w a 12900k is going to thermal throttle unless you go crazy with cooling. I've managed to cool around 270 watts but im using liquid metal.

High temperatures during gaming is a completely different issue from the above and it's probably down to case airflow

 

[TheHerald]

I figured 85C was normal during a full load or when gaming. Had no clue there would be something wrong. As for IHS bend, i have no clue what that would be.

Im running a 4070ti super and i dont see a temperature problem with it, even when overclocking it with MSI afterburner. I dont exactly remember the Temps when gaming so I'll get back with you once I test it. As for the panels, I have had both covers off the case for about a year now, when i throw on the panels when i see an increase in temperature.

Which is why im starting to really think its a case problem.

Power limit throttling means your CPU hit the maximum power allowed in the bios, probably it's set at 240 watts I assume. EDP limit is the CPU hitting the maximum current limit allowed, again, that's configurable in the bios.

 

[Lafong]

Explain Breed boarding, never tried it before.

Breadboarding is assembling the components outside of the case...such as on a table top. It is often done one step at a time to isolate a problematic component.

In your instance, it would eliminate the effects of bad case ventilation.

Hard to say if it would necessarily be useful in your situation, considering it might be time-consuming.

 

[Lutfij]

I'd have suggested something else much simpler than breadboarding, which was to remove the front panel for your case but due to the way CoolerMaster designed their Q300L and Q500L cases, you will need to de-rivet the case(not just the dust filter), which is moot at this point, to the point where breadboarding would be simpler.

To summarize, you have a hotheaded i9 processor in a hotBox, even if you threw buckets of ice into that case, you won't be getting anywhere. Even if you improve your CPU cooling with a 360mm AIO, you're starving any cooling in your case without cooler ambient air, hence why I'm pointing a finger at your case.

You will need to take your hardware out of the Q500L eventually and what better way to remove them now, breadboard and then see your temps...?

***READ FIRST*** Tom's HW Watercooling Sticky v2.0

Introduction Welcome to the world of watercooling. This guide is meant for those looking to get into watercooling or considering it as a cooling option and hobby. There is an incredible amount of information around the web and I am going to make an effort to consolidate as much as I can to...

forums.tomshardware.com

This is a good read...read through the do I need watercooling?! section and then scroll down to the Closed Loop Cooler section.

I forgot to add, part of the heat in your build is also from the heat dumped by your PSU, if the PSU bracket is mounted in it's stock config. In case you didn't see this when the case first came out;

View: https://youtu.be/F3n80GxU-Zs

 

[geofelt]

Your production is not XTU, it is gaming.
Modern gen processors are designed to run at 100c.The motherboards will push the performance up until it reaches 100c. and then backs off a bit.
That is normal.
If your cooling is not the best, the performance limit is just a bit less.

You may find this discussion on performance of high end processors with less than best cooling:
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-core-13900k-cooling-tested

The Noctua NH-U12a is an excellent cooler and will last virtually forever.
Some might advocate a repaste job, but most of the time, that is a wasted endeavor.

Yes, your case is not the best for airflow. But, it is doing the job.
Is your motherboard MATX of full ATX?

Instead of taking the effort to breadboard, why not just remove the side cover and direct a house fan at the innards?
That will give you some idea as to what benefit you might get from a case with better airflow.

Such a case might be hard to find, given the dimensions you require to fit in a suitcase.

 

[AlmightyKing]

Step 1) Use HWINFO
Step 2) Run XTU
Step 3) Observe power draw and individual core temperatures.

It might be that one of the cores is hitting 100c while the rest sit at 80C or whatever.
If you are thermal throttling while pulling 220watts or more that's kinda normal. A bit on the high side but still - around 240-250w a 12900k is going to thermal throttle unless you go crazy with cooling. I've managed to cool around 270 watts but im using liquid metal.

High temperatures during gaming is a completely different issue from the above and it's probably down to case airflow

Just ran XTU, noticed my core 5 has the highest temperature out of all cores, but its not passing 100c. Still throwing thermal throttling for some reason.

XTU testing

I'm honestly not familiar with the setting the correct voltages for my CPU so who knows if I have them correct.

 

[AlmightyKing]

Your production is not XTU, it is gaming.
Modern gen processors are designed to run at 100c.The motherboards will push the performance up until it reaches 100c. and then backs off a bit.
That is normal.
If your cooling is not the best, the performance limit is just a bit less.

You may find this discussion on performance of high end processors with less than best cooling:
https://www.tomshardware.com/features/intel-core-13900k-cooling-tested

The Noctua NH-U12a is an excellent cooler and will last virtually forever.
Some might advocate a repaste job, but most of the time, that is a wasted endeavor.

Yes, your case is not the best for airflow. But, it is doing the job.
Is your motherboard MATX of full ATX?

Instead of taking the effort to breadboard, why not just remove the side cover and direct a house fan at the innards?
That will give you some idea as to what benefit you might get from a case with better airflow.

Such a case might be hard to find, given the dimensions you require to fit in a suitcase.

Good to know the Noctua the excellent choice, its such an easy cooler to install. Still might buy the chroma black for aesthetic purposes. It matches the stealth black look I was going for the rig.

Sucks that cooler master seems to be the ultimate problem for the rig however. My current motherboard is a Micro ATX model MSI MPG Z790 Edge wifi.

Im not necessary requiring a case that fits suitcase, Im just not fan of huge rigs. I just have preference for small micro ATX builds.

 

[AlmightyKing]

Power limit throttling means your CPU hit the maximum power allowed in the bios, probably it's set at 240 watts I assume. EDP limit is the CPU hitting the maximum current limit allowed, again, that's configurable in the bios.

Got any good tutorials which can help me solve these problems?
Not very familar with voltages and CPU settings, especially when it comes to searching around bios menus.

 

[AlmightyKing]

I'd have suggested something else much simpler than breadboarding, which was to remove the front panel for your case but due to the way CoolerMaster designed their Q300L and Q500L cases, you will need to de-rivet the case(not just the dust filter), which is moot at this point, to the point where breadboarding would be simpler.

To summarize, you have a hotheaded i9 processor in a hotBox, even if you threw buckets of ice into that case, you won't be getting anywhere. Even if you improve your CPU cooling with a 360mm AIO, you're starving any cooling in your case without cooler ambient air, hence why I'm pointing a finger at your case.

You will need to take your hardware out of the Q500L eventually and what better way to remove them now, breadboard and then see your temps...?

***READ FIRST*** Tom's HW Watercooling Sticky v2.0

Introduction Welcome to the world of watercooling. This guide is meant for those looking to get into watercooling or considering it as a cooling option and hobby. There is an incredible amount of information around the web and I am going to make an effort to consolidate as much as I can to...

forums.tomshardware.com

This is a good read...read through the do I need watercooling?! section and then scroll down to the Closed Loop Cooler section.

I forgot to add, part of the heat in your build is also from the heat dumped by your PSU, if the PSU bracket is mounted in it's stock config. In case you didn't see this when the case first came out;

View: https://youtu.be/F3n80GxU-Zs

Just finished the video, man i wished I watched it before building the rig. It took them almost 10 test for them to prevent any type of thermal throttling and still ultimately couldnt totally prevent it.

I'll start looking at better cases this weekend and begin moving away from the cooler master.

 

[TheHerald]

Got any good tutorials which can help me solve these problems?
Not very familar with voltages and CPU settings, especially when it comes to searching around bios menus.

Well for starters, just run a CBR23 and show me the scores and temperatures. If your score is fine, there is nothing to really fix

 

[NedSmelly]

Got any good tutorials which can help me solve these problems?
Not very familar with voltages and CPU settings, especially when it comes to searching around bios menus.

Run HWinfo in real-time system monitoring mode.
Open a graph for CPU Package Power.
Run a benchmark stress test for at least 5 minutes or so, and watch what the Package Power is reading in the graph and in Sensor Status.
Report back to us.
A screen shot would be even better.

 

[AlmightyKing]

Well for starters, just run a CBR23 and show me the scores and temperatures. If your score is fine, there is nothing to really fix

Well for starters, just run a CBR23 and show me the scores and temperatures. If your score is fine, there is nothing to really fix

Well this is strange.

Was running CBR23 to get scores and my computer completely froze up.

I managed to get one test done but ran a 2nd test because i didnt have HWINFO or XTU running to record temperatures. I just turned it off for the night and figured I try again in the morning.

Woke up and my computer won't even boot into bios. Kept flashing me a ram and CPU light. Tested the ram slots, computer will only boot with one stick of ram and only in the B2 slot, no other slots will boot into post.

Haven't tried reseating the CPU yet but will later today.

I had a similar issue with my ASUS board when swapping coolers, which is why I replaced it with this MSI board. I talked about it on a similar post i made to reddit FPS problems

I cleared my CMOS by taking the battery out and reverting any changes made on XTU but still seem to run into this issue.

I hope this didn't blow into a larger problem because I wanted to lower temperatures lol

 

[AlmightyKing]

Run HWinfo in real-time system monitoring mode.
Open a graph for CPU Package Power.
Run a benchmark stress test for at least 5 minutes or so, and watch what the Package Power is reading in the graph and in Sensor Status.
Report back to us.
A screen shot would be even better.

Ran a similar test earlier

Did a CPU Stress test and recorded temps with HWinfo.

Here are the results XTU testing

Now i got a bigger issue. Was running CBR23 and my computer froze up on me.

Now for some reason the computer wont boot into post with more than 1 stick of ram and it will only boot with ran in the B2 slot

 

[NedSmelly]

Ran a similar test earlier

Did a CPU Stress test and recorded temps with HWinfo.

Here are the results XTU testing

I’m not interested in the temp. I’m interested in the package power.

 

[NedSmelly]

Go into your BIOS and see what the last 3 settings are:

(From your motherboard's BIOS manual - page 42)

The box spec should be:

• Long duration 125W
• Long duration maintained 56 seconds
• Short duration 241W

High end motherboards have been ignoring this spec and blasting the CPUs with unlimited power for unlimited duration at their 'default'. As mentioned in my first reply, MSI is notorious for setting its power limits at "4096W" in its OC performance profiles.

 

[thestryker]

Good to know the Noctua the excellent choice, its such an easy cooler to install. Still might buy the chroma black for aesthetic purposes. It matches the stealth black look I was going for the rig.

Sucks that cooler master seems to be the ultimate problem for the rig however. My current motherboard is a Micro ATX model MSI MPG Z790 Edge wifi.

Im not necessary requiring a case that fits suitcase, Im just not fan of huge rigs. I just have preference for small micro ATX builds.

This is not a mATX board (MSI doesn't sell any mATX Z series) the case you bought is just mATX sized adapted to support ATX which is what your board is. You will not be able to find anything else in this size category which will fit your system from mainstream manufacturers. You could most likely get a decent 240mm AIO and the case you have would be okay assuming you have intake fans in the bottom, exhaust in back with the case raised up a bit off whatever surface you have it on as the feet are a bit short (if there was room you could try to rig up a front intake, but I'm not sure this is possible due to PSU size).