Who is to blame for absurd DRM and the 'death' of PC gaming?

[tsd16]

I don't think pc gaming is dead just in erm hibernation til the consoles can't make any more good games. Anyway for piracy I usualy download the demo, if I like it I download the game, If the full game doesn't suck I buy it. I do it with all my games and I would say it wasn't wrong.

This type of mentality is suspect to me though. Even if the game sucks, you used it, for free. Admit that there are a few games you probably played all the way through and didnt buy. I find it hard to believe after downloading a full version game, that you go out and purchase the ones you like, If you in fact do purchase some of the games you download, it's probably multiplayer games, or maybe a game that just knocks your socks off, you probably chaulk the ones that were enjoyable but you may never play again in the dont buy bin, but you infact were entertained for a period of time by a piece of software you didnt pay for.

 

[tsd16]

Maybe some people outside of the USA can't afford to buy them or live in remote areas where the nearest game shop might require a 100 mile journey. Even that said what if you can't buy the game anymore what do you do then. By the looks of your system specs it seems you don't have a shortage of money either so you can buy what you want but some people work hard to earn a meal a day yet you say they have plenty to buy a game.[/quotemsg]


My mentality is, if you can't afford a game, you can't afford a computer good enough to play said game. Anyone with a computer and internet access can't give me some sob story about barely getting a meal a day.

If you can afford a computer, you can afford a game. I had a job in highschool, I could buy games. I had a job in college I could buy games. I have a job out of college, I can buy games. I am sure the primary contributers to Piracy are jobless kids/Teenagers and jobless 20 sumthing layabouts feeding off mom and dad.

 

[jalek]

This type of mentality is suspect to me though. Even if the game sucks, you used it, for free. Admit that there are a few games you probably played all the way through and didnt buy. I find it hard to believe after downloading a full version game, that you go out and purchase the ones you like, If you in fact do purchase some of the games you download, it's probably multiplayer games, or maybe a game that just knocks your socks off, you probably chaulk the ones that were enjoyable but you may never play again in the dont buy bin, but you infact were entertained for a period of time by a piece of software you didnt pay for.

I did that, particularly when money was an issue. Since then I seem more likely to buy games and never play them. I have probably a dozen still in shrinkwrap, they looked good at the time and I just never got to them. Perhaps this is why I prefer console games now, there's no installation or issues, it's already optimized for the available hardware, just insert the disk and go.

Maybe when I retire, if the hardware still supports them, I'll finally play the PC games I have around.
Being a packrat's NOT a virtue though.

 

[Annisman]

Maybe some people outside of the USA can't afford to buy them or live in remote areas where the nearest game shop might require a 100 mile journey. Even that said what if you can't buy the game anymore what do you do then. By the looks of your system specs it seems you don't have a shortage of money either so you can buy what you want but some people work hard to earn a meal a day yet you say they have plenty to buy a game.[/quotemsg]


My mentality is, if you can't afford a game, you can't afford a computer good enough to play said game. Anyone with a computer and internet access can't give me some sob story about barely getting a meal a day.

If you can afford a computer, you can afford a game. I had a job in highschool, I could buy games. I had a job in college I could buy games. I have a job out of college, I can buy games. I am sure the primary contributers to Piracy are jobless kids/Teenagers and jobless 20 sumthing layabouts feeding off mom and dad.

HAHA, like I said, I don't think that anyone scrimping for cash to get by in life is going to come home to a Counter Strike Lan party.

 

[sneakyfcknrusky]

This type of mentality is suspect to me though. Even if the game sucks, you used it, for free. Admit that there are a few games you probably played all the way through and didnt buy. I find it hard to believe after downloading a full version game, that you go out and purchase the ones you like, If you in fact do purchase some of the games you download, it's probably multiplayer games, or maybe a game that just knocks your socks off, you probably chaulk the ones that were enjoyable but you may never play again in the dont buy bin, but you infact were entertained for a period of time by a piece of software you didnt pay for.

There was a game I played for free then bought it becuase the I liked the game even though I completed it. It was CoD4 but I don't want people to think I was defending piracy I admit its wrong I was presenting an arguement for those who don't think its wrong. It seems I have actualy made myself look like a pirate when in fact I regularly buy software even with DRM which doesn't really bother me only music DRM bothers me since I can't share my music with friends (iTunes) when I can with a CD

 

[tsd16]

The reason why someone might pirate a game is that they just don't have the money to spend on the hobby. It is a rather expensive hobby.

Like I said in another thread... There are a lot of kids and college students that have more free time than they have money and as such they look for alternative ways to get their hands on games. Those same kids and college students, once they have disposable income, frequently become legitimate consumers. Unfortunately there are no numbers to support any sort of percentages or anything, and absolutely no way to get that kind of information but I know personally quite a few people who followed this pattern.

.

Do you realize your concept despite the sob story for poor college students, when applied to any other medium will get you tossed in jail.

Ok poor college student loves drinking, but no money for beer? What to do? Go to the Liquor store and STEAL IT! its ok because I don't have money and I am entitled to it, because I can't afford it.

Some of you people can't get beyond the fact that just because it's not a physical medium, it's no less theft. It's this thing called "principal". I went to college like many other people, my parents didn't pay, I joined the National guard and the government footed the bill. I have no pity for anyone giving me the can't afford it so I steal it mentality, you can do something other than stealing to secure your end.

Let me put it this way, do you see a difference between downloading the game and going to best buy and lifting it? You shouldn't because there is no difference. I think it just speaks volumes of the majority of people's nature, when the is little to no chance whatsoever of being caught they will commit crimes.

Just because "you wouldnt buy it anyway" does not make it any less wrong because the fact of the matter is if you really wanted a game, and couldn't steal it online you would find a way to pay for it.

 

[tsd16]

That's pretty selfish annisman I mean some people are alot worse off than you think even in the might USA and you won't even give them 1 luxury to make life that little bit better. Here in Britain the cost of living is higher than america and even in other countries there are higher costs of living for example Norway is extremely expensive; One nights meal there cost £100 thats more that $150 and the they can't afford it excuse isn't weak since some people CAN'T afford it I mean what about the people who have kids to look after or parents to look after and need at least A luxury in life. Denying them that is rather selfish simply because you are LUCKY enough to be able to afford it. Also in your first post you assumed we ALL live in america "Don't tell me that you can't afford it, WE live in the blessed UNITED STATES OF AMERICA," No 5.7 billion of the planet do not live in America.

I don't know about the OP, but there is no luck involved. If you make an effort to secure a better station in life it will happen. If you can't afford a video game as an adult, you should be concentrating bettering your life instead of playing videogames. No one dropped anything in my lap, I got good grades in school, Joined the Army Guard as means to attend college and got a good job.

 

[infornography42]

Do you realize your concept despite the sob story for poor college students, when applied to any other medium will get you tossed in jail.

Ok poor college student loves drinking, but no money for beer? What to do? Go to the Liquor store and STEAL IT! its ok because I don't have money and I am entitled to it, because I can't afford it.

Some of you people can't get beyond the fact that just because it's not a physical medium, it's no less theft. It's this thing called "principal". I went to college like many other people, my parents didn't pay, I joined the National guard and the government footed the bill. I have no pity for anyone giving me the can't afford it so I steal it mentality, you can do something other than stealing to secure your end.

Let me put it this way, do you see a difference between downloading the game and going to best buy and lifting it? You shouldn't because there is no difference. I think it just speaks volumes of the majority of people's nature, when the is little to no chance whatsoever of being caught they will commit crimes.

Just because "you wouldnt buy it anyway" does not make it any less wrong because the fact of the matter is if you really wanted a game, and couldn't steal it online you would find a way to pay for it.

I don't know... maybe I am not being clear enough as people seem to keep pulling the wrong ideas from my posts....

I DO NOT ENDORSE PIRACY, I DO NOT DEFEND PIRACY! Is that clear enough? Do I need to put that at the beginning of every post I make?

Providing a reason is not the same thing as providing an excuse. I am explaining the behavior not condoning it. It seems that some of you anti pirate people would like to see pirates drawn and quartered for your amusement. It just isn't that big of a crime. I am not saying it is legal or that it should be, just that it is not as big a deal as you make it out to be. Must everything be black and white?

As said before, we will never stop piracy, it happens, it has happened, it will continue to happen. Better than trying to stop it would be trying to understand it and figure out ways to encourage people who would otherwise pirate, to buy instead. Just bashing the pirates repeatedly will only make them more belligerent. How about trying to think of something that might actually be beneficial instead?

 

[Oh Snap]

do you see a difference between downloading the game and going to best buy and lifting it? You shouldn't because there is no difference.

In all fairness, there's a **** huge difference. You might not agree with either one, but I sure as **** would be much less upset about someone copying code or graphics I created vs. someone breaking into my house and stealing my computer. In fact, someone might have already copied code I've written, and I just don't know it yet. You can bet your ass I'd immediately know if someone stole my computer. You can argue that neither is right, but seriously, think of a better analogy.

 

[Annisman]

Ok, how bout this one: Pirating a game online is like having phone sex w/ someone else's girlfriend, you're not physically doing it, but you better beleive that he's still going to come after you with a baseball bat. And in my opinion that 'baseball bat' is the DRM that we are seeing, unfortuantely those who end up getting beaten are the legit customers. Thanks alot pirates.

 

[Oh Snap]

Ok, how bout this one: Pirating a game online is like having phone sex w/ someone else's girlfriend, you're not physically doing it, but you better beleive that he's still going to come after you with a baseball bat. And in my opinion that 'baseball bat' is the DRM that we are seeing, unfortuantely those who end up getting beaten are the legit customers. Thanks alot pirates.

LMAO. That's actually probably one of the funniest, and most accurate comparisons with piracy I've heard thus far. Bravo.

 

[Oh Snap]

...

What? It works. I'm sure developers are personally upset by piracy, and that's a more valid argument than saying all forms of piracy cause lost profits. Some circumstances it doesn't necessarily. But ANY form of piracy could potentially piss of the developers or make them feel like ****.

 

[royalcrown]

Alright...here is a reply for you...

I totally agree with you, I pirated a ton of crap because I did not want to spend the money. Now, however, I buy ALL my software, which is usually used, because 50 bucks for a game is nuts. Maybe the devs aren't getting my whole 50 bucks, but the kid that sold me his game can use my money to put towards that copy of crysis and I didn't steal it.

That said, I gladly pirated my copy of xp AND vista ! Why ?! Because I bought every copy of windows and every copy was just the same old crap with a few tweaks. Xp comes along and wow, it has something useful, remote assistance, now I can help my mom and friends out of state right ? Whoa sorry, MS decides to rip out the one really useful feature so as to gouge the consumers that need it for more than double the price ! Guess what..F.. them ! Now with vista, I sure a hell was not gonna pay almost 300 bucks for the "good" version when I am not even sure if it's worth it, especially when I can't just stop using it and send it back ! Now that I have used it awhile, I am actually saving up to BUY it, so MS still gets their money.

I don't agree with pirating (except a company that cripples the regular versions, so as to gouge you on the "pro"), so I DO buy my stuff.

DRM is exactly BECAUSE of the pirates, this argument that they shouldn't have it is crap and here is why:

If they do nothing at ALL (whether effective or not, or cracked the first week or NOT) then they are just as bad as ppl who leave their keys in the car. Sure the theif is the guilty party for stealing it, but leaving the car alarm off and window rolled down and keys in the visor just makes it EASIER, and ME a dumbass in real life for doing it. Publishers need to at least TRY to do something or else their guilty of being lax.

 

[royalcrown]

Also...that avatar IS super flaming GHAYEE, but if you roll like that, fine by me.

 

[royalcrown]

This is for all the "this thread already exists" replies:

Even if it does, who gave you sole right to dictate what and how many threads can be started, maybe I then have the right to tell you to STFU because someone already stated that before you did.

Dude should be able to rant and start the thread regardless if it's a rehash or not, this isn't the Chinese internet !

 

[royalcrown]

@AMDDANGIRL...no, I meant the angel avatar...lol. I hear, it's raining men..with pictures of guys in black leather chaps when I look at it.

 

[infornography42]

This is for all the "this thread already exists" replies:

Even if it does, who gave you sole right to dictate what and how many threads can be started, maybe I then have the right to tell you to STFU because someone already stated that before you did.

Dude should be able to rant and start the thread regardless if it's a rehash or not, this isn't the Chinese internet !

I don't care how many threads get started on the topic. I was taking him to task on it because he was acting like he was the first and the only one making this point. And he was doing so in the rudest manner he could muster.

Honestly, piracy threads get a lot of activity and make the day more interesting. The more the merrier. Just don't post one claiming to have a monopoly on awareness and insult everyone on the forum.... thats just dumb.

 

[royalcrown]

He never said that, but I havent seen another thread on here that actually puts the DRM blame where it belongs so plainly, without a lot of excuses. I wasn't singling you out on that either, rather that was aimed at the aggregate sum of those replies.

I think a lot of us, even if we don't pirate anymore, probably have something on a disc somewhere, even if it is because it can't be legitimately purchased anymore.

I have a box full of pirated stuff, and I am now buying copies of the stuff I already DL'ed for free because it's the right way to do it.

 

[omenowl]

WHy does no one blame the game industry for poor gameplay, buggy software, retreaded ideas, poor customer service/support, games that require hardware beyond the normal computer owner.

Piracy does play a part, but piracy is a smaller problem than poor games. When publishers give me games I want to buy I will do so. Until then I will go to half price books and buy games that are a few years old for 5-9 dollars.

 

[royalcrown]

WHy does no one blame the game industry for poor gameplay, buggy software, retreaded ideas, poor customer service/support, games that require hardware beyond the normal computer owner.

Piracy does play a part, but piracy is a smaller problem than poor games. When publishers give me games I want to buy I will do so. Until then I will go to half price books and buy games that are a few years old for 5-9 dollars.

We do, on the this game sucks threads, not on the piracy threads !

If you look at the first few pages of a book and it sucks, do you steal it to find out ?

 

[sneakyfcknrusky]

WHy does no one blame the game industry for poor gameplay, buggy software, retreaded ideas, poor customer service/support, games that require hardware beyond the normal computer owner.

Piracy does play a part, but piracy is a smaller problem than poor games. When publishers give me games I want to buy I will do so. Until then I will go to half price books and buy games that are a few years old for 5-9 dollars.

Well about the part that games that come out beyond current hardware is not that bad and why people instantly pin the blame on crysis its happened with other games e.g supreme commander ... sure you can play it but not 8000 units at once, Also when battlefield 2 came out not many could play it full res with all the features.

 

[Oh Snap]

We do, on the this game sucks threads, not on the piracy threads !

If you look at the first few pages of a book and it sucks, do you steal it to find out ?

Because jacking that book from the shelf is IDENTICAL in EVERY SINGLE WAY to making a digital copy of something. Subtraction = multiplication AMIRITE?

 

[Belinda]

We do, on the this game sucks threads, not on the piracy threads !

If you look at the first few pages of a book and it sucks, do you steal it to find out ?

Just read the last few pages. Problem solved.

 

[voort]

i am a long time gamer. my first pc had a b&w monitor, no harddrive or sound, and ran at 4mhz. When sierra adventures ruled the day.
My perspective is seeing long term, and being a legit buyer. I have a good job and i buy my games that interest me. (Alot) , I keep the classics for along time 10-20 years, but mostly resell the rest to fund my hobby. I have 3 pcs in a lan in my house, to play lan games with friends when they come over. This was great when big lanning began, like with starcraft, aoe2 etc, one game could run a lan of 3 pcs easily. Nowadays to lan I have to have 3 copies due to the extra restrictions. Then some games came out that wouldnt allow a game to run unless all were internet authorised, but wouldnt work from the same user, or same ip address etc, making it even more difficult. Now gaming is coming into an era where i cant even resell my games I have bought even if they suck. And with online authorisation needed before installation, there is a good chance a classic game today will be unplayable in years to come. It is beginning to get too tough for the legit gamer and many of my fellow long term gamers are giving up due to all the hastle and games turning into the disposable fastfood burger, ie. you eat your fill and then throw it in the garbage because it has no more value after that.
The customer who pays their hard earned cash for a game, is getting the raw end of the deal, and it is getting worse over the years. The pirate doesnt have these hastles. This is what is driving less people to pc gaming, and more to piracy. It is not fair to people like me who have loyally bought our games (and multiples, plus introduced many to the hobby)
Yes, pirates suck. But if the customer is treated as well as possible, and has a good product, a company shouldnt need to worry about pirates.
As I read, gta4 was the most pirated game this year, even being available to pirate before the game hit shelves, yet the game is the best selling game ever, (if not close) The game is proven to be a worthwhile buy for customers. Good publicity, aimed at the right market, and a good time, (not jammed in with a million other games at christmas), and the customer knows the game will look as intended in their machine as the developers intended, (no crysis problem) And the game has sold over $500 million in one week. Game companies need to focus on bringing the best to the paying customer. Get that right and they wont need to worry about other factors!!

 

[Annisman]

voort, don't you see that pirating WILL continue to be a problem, even with good games ? You said yourself in your post that GTA4 was the most pirated game so far this year. GTA 4 is an excellent game that is widely sought after. You make it seem like if game producers made better games then pirating would vanish, in fact it is the opposite. If there is an outstanding game everyone wants it, including the pirates. The only game I see doing well is Sins of A Solar Empire which is a good game + a very smart DRM scheme that doesn not rip off the paying customer. I think more developers should get alot from their example.

And I also agree that games for Lan purposes have gone into the toilet. Out of all the games I own, I can only get one or two to work w/ a lan from one copy of the game. I guess lan has been replaced by massive online gaming like COD4 etc.