Who is to blame for absurd DRM and the 'death' of PC gaming?

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I fully agree that nothing will stop piracy. if it can be done, it will be done. I am saying that there is a very large group of people who want to buy games and are potential customers. I am saying that legit customers are being pushed away in favour of trying to stop piracy. That policy is not winning, it is making the problem worse.

If you piss off the legit customers or give them any reason not to buy your product , you get little sales no matter how little pirating there is! There are alot of people who want to buy games, but the reasons not to buy games is growing!
 
Ok voort, here is my take on what you said. Yes, the activation is crap sometimes, and yes, you should be able to put a couple installs on a lan, at least 2 machines for each disk I think (multiplayer ONLY is fair).

But the real reason ppl are bitching about DRM is that they can't buy 1 copy and put it on their 5 computers....****, so what..then they need another damn copy!

They can't install, uninstall,install...10 thousand times...again SO ?! Call cust service !

Another good reason is that computer users are now clueless, ignorant morons concerning how their machine works, much less what DDR means...so when they install the game and it does something bad to their "pooter", they don't have a clue what to do. These last f'ing morons need to be on a console anyhow, because computers are "hard".

 
They can't install, uninstall,install...10 thousand times...again SO ?! Call cust service!
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So you honestly think if someone purchases a game and installs it on their own computers with the intention of only using them on LAN on occasion when their friends come over, that they should have to pay for additional licenses? I'm not talking online access (i.e. Battle.net), just LAN.

I mean to me, that was one of the benefits of buying a game before. If you were having a LAN, if one of you had the game, everyone could play it while they were there. They couldn't take it home, because they wouldn't be able to play it online. What's the difference between that and having your friends come over and all play Xbox? They might not own the game, but you do, and you're inviting them over to play it. I mean that alone seems like it would create a large gap in sales between PC and console games. Console games are often designed for multiple players using only one copy of a game. You might think that charging for four licenses instead of one so that four friends could play a game would mean more money, but I can't help but wonder if they just say no thanks because of the extra cost.
 

I never gave a number, but voort said:
I have 3 pcs in a lan in my house, to play lan games with friends when they come over.
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and said that he already can't do this with modern games. Royalcrown agreed that it should be fine for 2-3, but came up with the arbitrary "5 or 6" as the limit, so ask him where he came up with the numbers. The "story" is real, because it's voort's life. lol.
 
I have that many PC's and know a few other families who have that many or a few at least.
Pc devs are missing out on a market here most families now have multiple PC's and there is hardly any co-op family friendly games being made for the PC.
See your not all knowing annisman, you seem to think you and only you are right.
 


Yeah, actually your right, a lot of games I don't buy because I get tired of their crappy multiplayer deathmatch only or CTF crap, i'd love to play fear or crysis or bioshock coop multplayer !
 
You know what... I would love it if game publishers made it feasible to run the game on two systems at a time. That would be roughly twice as many as they officially support now.

Also, why the hell should I have to call customer support, wait on hold, and try to convince some phone monkey that I am not an evil pirate out to steal their livelihood and please let me install what I already frikkin paid for? NO! I refuse to be a part of that!
 


I own 5 computers. This one, the laptop, my brothers, and two that I have assembled from spare parts.
 
each year the number of gaming ready computers decreases a gaming pc from the geforce 6 era cant handle gaming from todays games and if you look at many polls, steam did a few also, around 90% of the gamers are still hovering around the 6800's- 7800's

the next game developer will design their games to be run on a geforce 9 or geforce 10 series card and at that point they will blame piracy even more when in reality, the users who spent hundreds on their 8800 systems will not be ready to buy another videocard yet, so even fewer people will buy their games because the target market will be even smaller
and they may use an even worst DRM which will lead to even more piracy because after spending $600+ on that future geforce 10 series there getting that game designed for their card one way or another otherwise they will not be able to justify the price of their card because there will be no waiting for another game because the next game will require another videocard upgrade


i understand the need to have ever increasing graphics for games but it doesnt need to be so rapid,

if microsoft made a new xbox 360 every 3-4 months and you needed that new xbox 360 to play the latest xbox games
how many people do you thing would be buying xbox games now?

everyone is willing to upgrade but not every 3-4 months when a new videocard comes out



if a xbox 360 came out 1 month and only 3 games came out for it, and then 4 months later the xbox 370 came out and you needed it to run the newer xbox games that were coming out, then 4 months later, the xbox 380 came out and you needed it to run the next 1-3 games then a month later the xbox 380GX2 came out and you needed that console in order to run 1 or 2 newer games that took advantage of a new shader that requires a little more power. would you get into gaming with the xbox if you knew you would have to go through all of this just to be able to game?


would you go through this with your pc to be able to game?

console gaming is more popular because it lasts longer, during the lifespan of a xbox 360 before the next xbox comes out, the hard core pc gamer would have gone through at least 5 videocards costing over 400-500 each

if pc gaming was more gradual in that it required less frequent upgrades kinda matching the upgrading of a console, then pc gaming would be just as popular and just as big of a money maker for the developers

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

if you look at the one valve did

only about 9% of the gamers there have a high end videocard

but most of the gamers are on pci express,

the majority of the videocards hover around the geforce 5-7 series the performance of a xbox 360 is similar to that of a geforce 6800GT or a x800xl

more gamers adopted pci express because but changes bus changes only happen once in a while like a new gaming console

but less adopted high end videocards due to the frequency of new videocards coming out


game developers are constantly focusing on making the most use of the latest videocard that almost no one has (then when it doesnt sell they blame piracy)




pc gaming is killing it's self with rapid hardware upgrade requirements and developers focusing on cutting edge graphics and throwing in crappy gaming , graphics is not a selling point, gaming is



if you focus on mainly graphics, you wind up with a game thats hard to run and that sucks.

the wow effect for anything only lasts a short time, and no one buys a game for just 10 minutes of wow

if i want good graphics i will just download a HD version of gameplay footage

when i buy the game, i want gameplay and not 10 minutes of wow

they make games that both suck and are hard to run then they cry and wine when their game doesnt sell enough.

if GTA SA just came out today, it would sell more than crysis, and it will sell more than many other graphic intensive pc games that came out recently

Why? because gta has good gameplay and the gameplay lasts longer than 4-5 hours

if i only wanted 4-5 hours of entertainment, i would spend half the price of the game to watch 3 movies at the theaters
 
Me think thou dost exaggerate too much.
Honestly graphics card updates do not come that quickly and most games are designed for a couple generations back so they can increase their userbase. Only a few game manufacturers still try to push the envelope and even then most of them try to design a very scalable graphics engine so it will run on older systems.

Crytek just took it further than most do.

What I find ridiculous is that they made a million sales and then proceeded to whine about how it didn't do as well as it could have. It did exceptionally well for a PC game. NPD has been publishing sales numbers for a long time and they are widely available. What the hell made them think that with elite system reqs they were going to do better than all other PC games out there.

We have known for a couple years now that consoles outsell PC games. This isn't some new revelation, I think they just had their heads in the clouds.
 
I'm partly with razor on the last post, But. I like the quick releasing of video cards, it means i can get a mid range more often cheaper. usualy one high end PC and 3-4 ok and 1 or 2 starting to struggle. But by buying a new midrange graphics card will breath new life into a few of them, for example an AMD 5600x2 with a gforce8600 waiting for a better card. The 8600 card will then go into a Pc with onboard graphics.
A year or 18 months off the cutting edge saves a load of cash
We still play games like red alert,Age of Kings, total annihilation, settlers, which do allow the use of install and play on multiple PC's.
If some of the newer games had lan and co-op i might think about buying multiple copies but as they are now, it ain't going to happen.
 
how about this thought for those who think 'just call customer service'
If this DRM catches on and becomes standard, (if it is fine for one, it should be fine for all) then a few years down the track, we buy a new pc, potentially dozens of our favourite games have just stopped working. Are we all up to calling for every game we want to install. ( i bought my new pc, i installed at least a dozen of my favourite games to see them perform on my new beast.) Having to call a dozen tech supports, or email and wait for hours+ takes alot of the fun out of it.
Who here also sells their old games, either because they no longer want to replay it, or the games just sucks, or just wastnt your type of game etc, to help fund more games etc. That would also stop too. Alot less cashflow in gamers pockets. How does that stop piracy?
 
I enjoy calling MS every time I try bumping my FSB speed a few hz and some motherboard service doesn't load so Windows dumps my activation.

No, really, even the automated system dealing with that ridiculously long key makes me happy.

I'd run a crack on that POS in an instant if I knew it'd let me continue with security upgrades and the like. My own damned fault for buying the OS.
 
yep calling support numbers is fun. those on hold songs that play over and over be mad hood yo, you kno i be dancing to that music yo, it's mad gangsta it makes being on hold for 3 hours much easier :) jk

anyway, not sure why some people will be ok with calling a support number if you look on the bioware forums you will see the workers there saying just call the support number when that happens like it is the easiest thing in the world to do or like it is just as much fin to call tech support and prove that you actually own the game, as it is to play the game




also the better a game looks, the longer it takes to create because it becomes more complex to program and when pared with short deadlines, they end up spending all their time on graphics and do the old copy/paste for the AI and other gameplay aspects

it doesnt matter if you can lower the settings like crazy to run on a midrange gaming pc

gameplay was sacrificed in order to have more time to work with graphics, the game was designed around showing off the render engine

if you cant max it out then you don't get any of what they were designing the game around.


while the occasional improvement in graphics is good like how every few years a new console comes out. gameplay should be the main focus.

with a console, you have a good gaming rig for around 5+ years

with a PC, you have a top end gaming rig for 5+ months after that you may need a new videocard to fully max out the next PC game

most people are not willing to go through this constant upgrading as it can become expensive fast

with a console, theres no system requirement problems so everyone who has the console can run the game so if a 50 million people have the console then your target market is a 50 million and there bound to be millions of people willing to buy the game

but in the PC market. you can have a billion pc owners, with like 50 million of them able to do midrange gaming and only less than a million able to handle high end gaming. which is a more profitable market?


also occasional upgrades are better than constant rapid upgrades currently needed for pc gaming

only 9+ of pc gamers shown on that steam hardware survey have a high end gaming PC

the rest fall into the midrange

but just about all of them are using 64 bit processors and are using pci express

if a new console came out every few months, you will have the majority of the people still having older consoles and unable to play newer games

and i bet those game developers will then complain that piracy is hurting their sales.


making a game that people cant run is worst than piracy. it is like spending 5 years writing a book then burning it
 
I agree with Razor512 :hello:


Whos to blame for DRM you say?
The greedy developer and publishers thats who.

Theres lots of stuff to keep people entertained theses days, just cause something sells bad doesn't mean everyone in the world pirated it.
Theres not enough hours in the day to play/listen every music song,game out or watch every movie that comes out.

Maybe the product sucked and word got around or it has annoying DRM that doesn't do crap but piss off people who do buy it.
If they add DRM and the product still doesn't sell that good who are they going to blame this time, oh its those damn hackers fault our product didn't sell like we wanted it to.

If they really wanted to fight piracy they should lower the price of the product that way more people can buy it or will buy it instead of downloading it.
They could also add some cool stuff with the product that makes people want to buy it instead of downloading it, anymore you don't get much inside the box for games, some developers will just put a small peice of paper saying our manual is online.


Let them go after people in China and middle east for pirating, that could be the next reason to bomb them lol.
 
Whilst i think that many of your arguements are valid and well presented, i feel that you are somewhat missing the bigger picture.

We here are enthusiasts who think nothing of tinkering with display options and OCing our hardware. Unfortunately we are a strange minority; the common masses lack either the interest, time, pateince or intelligence to undertake such tasks. Such people want to pick up a pad sit on a comfy couch, drink a few beers and have a good time massacring their mates. The sad fact is that console are always going to appeal to more people and will continue to attract ever larger markets. It is only natural that game companies are going to concentrate on consoles at the expense of PC games.

You all highlight Crysis as the game to carry your arguements. What if crysis was released for the 360 and PS3. What if the graphics for it were good...better than anything else on those consoles but not amazing. What if the gameplay was left the same....decent but nothing too special? Would it sell...of course it would sell...they would shift millions...It might not have been thought of in such high regard as Halo 2 or Gears of War, but it would still of been seen as a major sucess. The PC market is just too small in comparisome to the console market, and there is no changing it.
 
while piracy is considered morally wrong, it should never be hated by anyone.

Most of the rights and freedoms we have today came from methods and ideals of piracy

In early history there was always a power struggle between the people of a country and the rulers of the country.

Ask yourself, why are all countries different?

Other than location and climate, what are the real differences?

Why do people in some countries have many freedoms while people in other countries live a life of torment and oppression?


The answer is rebellion and piracy

In countries where the people oppressed, it is not like the country started out that way. It was a gradual process

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.




the rulers of those countries gradually took away rights and freedoms of the people

The limited rights little by little but no one complained

They limited the flow of information and still don't complained

Eventually the people in this country is woke up to a life of hardship and oppression, but at that time it was already too late for them.


But if you look at the history of the known free countries today

The main difference is the people's willingness to stand up and did not have their lives ruined by those in power

when those in power attempted to restrict access to information, the retaliation was piracy

When those in power attempted to limit freedoms and privileges, the retaliation was civil war and piracy

when a tea tax was placed, it was met with the Boston tea party

when alcohol was banned, it was met with speakeasies a place like the pirate bay can be seen as a online speakeasy

(definition: A speakeasy was an establishment which surreptitiously sold alcoholic beverages during the period of United States history known as Prohibition (1920-1933,[1] longer in some states), when the sale, manufacture, and transportation (bootlegging) of alcohol was illegal. The term comes from a patron's manner of ordering alcohol without raising suspicion %u2014 a bartender would tell a patron to be quiet and "speak easy".)

if that never happened, (there would be no alcohol when you go to parties :) )

piracy dates back to ancient times (it was always arose during oppression or when those in power tried to screw people over )

while today, some people may just pirate for no reason, thus giving a bad name to piracy

but think of it this way. if piracy did not exist, you would not have any freedom today


piracy is by defination getting the same task done by using an alternate method

when the busses were boycotted, people got the same task done using alternate methods, mainly carpooling and walking (those who owned busses also gave free rides (piracy busses )


silence = content

speaking out = ignored

why do you think when workers go on strike, they do it during business hours?
if those workers were to protest outside of the building after they they were done working for the business for the day, then they would be protesting for a hundred years and nothing will change, their demands will not be met

but if they strike, it costs the company a lot of money and thats when things get done (companies listen with their wallets, not with their ears)

if you want to send a message to these companies that drm is wrong, don't buy their games and what ever you do, don't pirate them either

this shows them that there will be no demand for anything they make if they add DRM to it. but if a few idiots pirate it, then that shows that their product is in demand, they just don't want to pay for the content.

pc gaming is not at a state yet where rampant piracy is needed
 
Good grief.... I am starting to think you get off on absurd stances.
Pirates are not defenders of freedom puppy dogs and apple pies. They are self serving slackers. Really, you are undermining your own arguments by embracing your exaggerations to such extremes.
 
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