Who's Who In Power Supplies, 2014: Brands Vs. Manufacturers

[Cord Wainer]

Cannot find my Model # FSP 350-60EMDN on the list. And there is no UL File number on the PSU label. It is Part # 20043509 FORTRON/SOURCE. Happily it states "Active PFC" and W/Noise Killer.
ps. Is it a bad idea to replace a burnt out PSU with a used one from an older PC? Should I remove a used one and check its specs? Or is that not feasible due to more modern improvements?

 

[Fidgetmaster]

nothing wrong with a good working used psu....I would pay close attention to how the rails are doing under load though... should be done with any psu really...

 

[iam2thecrowe]

The poor psu's always have the really bad quality capacitors in them.....CapXcon, Lelon etc...total junk man....

some good psu's, the lower end models like corsair cx have some average caps on them too. They test fine in reviews but i expect longevity to be an issue, fine for 2-3 years of use but thats about all.

 

[Fidgetmaster]

longevity is a huge issue with them....While Lelon isn't quite as bad as CapXcon....

 

[bin1127]

Great list. but a lot of the OEMs I have never heard of so can't even begin to put this information to use. Seasonic is Seasonic so I just go with them.

 

[cactus45]

My rules are simple, simply avoid buying Chinese wherever possible.
I understand almost everything is made there, but Western companies understand Western standards of quality.

The whole Chinese business model is based on manufacturing crap and making it hard to return.

I almost put off my younger brother's build because I had to get a ThermalTake PSU, but he didn't have enough money to get a different one, so I figured I'd get the warranty and hope for the best.

Western is the only thing worth buying because Chinese means Chinese quality, and that's an oxymoron.

What about the norm of a Western company selling Chinese made goods though? Surely, if the 'Western companies understand Western standards of quality', as you say, they wouldn't dream of selling something that doesn't live up to their Western standards, right?

While your rule may sound like a sensible one in theory, you really need to keep in mind that manufacturing in China these days (like most other places) is based around building to a cost. If that cost, specified by the buyer (the company who will sell the product to the consumer), is realistically too low for what they want, they're going to get a low quality product. On the other hand, if the buyer specifies certain quality factors they want, and costs the product realistically, the product manufactured for them can be of very high quality.

So while it's easy to write off everything manufactured in China as being junk, that's really not fair. Items manufactured there do vary massively in quality, and that quality is signed off on by the company (western or not) that then sells the product, so they're just as culpable for any quality issues as the manufacturer.

At its simplest, I guess you could say it all comes down to that oft said cliche: you get what you pay for.

The difference is that Western companies understand the end goal is something that's in good enough condition to run and not to ship broken crap that is cheap beyond a reasonable standard and make it hard to return. You won't catch them selling crap simply to make a quick buck like the Chinese do.

Western companies have a sense of honesty and duty to the customer; the Chinese companies not only understand, but they also happily exploit caveat emptor.

Western companies also have far better R&D and specs, so it makes sense the end product would be better than a Chinese-created and manufactured one. There's a very simple reason that Chinese made items are of such poor quality. It's a business strategy there.

Do you think a Western company could survive by being cheats?

Let me ask you something,

Which company is being more dishonest.? Company A is a Chinese company who makes a PSU, it costs them $10 to make, and it sells them for $15.

Company B is a western company who buys PSU from Asia for $25 and sells them for $90.

Although I hate cheap shit like anybody, you cant just say China are more dishonest than western companies. They produce products to price and specs, but the main focus and the thing that has made China a manufacturing giant is the cheap price. Apple has a great reputation for quality in the west but the iphone is made in China for $170 and sold in the west for like $800. Who is being more dishonest??

Its just wrong to say western companies are honest or have a duty to the customer. . Any benefits we have is due to consumer laws and regulation. 90% of Chinese goods are purchased and imported by western companies who then put their brand on it.,

There are plenty of good Chinese products, just about every component in you PC is made in China. You just need to be selective and do your research like any product.

One more thing about PSUs, I have an AX 850 that cost about $250 but ask any local computer store who makes basic computers and they will tell you 90% of their sales are for cheap $30 PSUs. For every quality PSU sold, they sell 1000 cheap PSUs because most people don't care. I've even built computers for people with $30 PSUs because even though I tried my hardest to convince the buyer the PSU is inefficient and possibly dangerous, they don't want to spend the money on a quality unit. They say well if it blows up, I'll just buy another one. Then I say, yeh but it could blow up your motherboard or other parts too when it fails. They say "oh well I'll take the chance" and that's what most people do. So if people are buying them, China will produce them but I cant see how its China's fault.

 

[cactus45]

My rules are simple, simply avoid buying Chinese wherever possible.
I understand almost everything is made there, but Western companies understand Western standards of quality.

The whole Chinese business model is based on manufacturing crap and making it hard to return.

I almost put off my younger brother's build because I had to get a ThermalTake PSU, but he didn't have enough money to get a different one, so I figured I'd get the warranty and hope for the best.

Western is the only thing worth buying because Chinese means Chinese quality, and that's an oxymoron.

What about the norm of a Western company selling Chinese made goods though? Surely, if the 'Western companies understand Western standards of quality', as you say, they wouldn't dream of selling something that doesn't live up to their Western standards, right?

While your rule may sound like a sensible one in theory, you really need to keep in mind that manufacturing in China these days (like most other places) is based around building to a cost. If that cost, specified by the buyer (the company who will sell the product to the consumer), is realistically too low for what they want, they're going to get a low quality product. On the other hand, if the buyer specifies certain quality factors they want, and costs the product realistically, the product manufactured for them can be of very high quality.

So while it's easy to write off everything manufactured in China as being junk, that's really not fair. Items manufactured there do vary massively in quality, and that quality is signed off on by the company (western or not) that then sells the product, so they're just as culpable for any quality issues as the manufacturer.

At its simplest, I guess you could say it all comes down to that oft said cliche: you get what you pay for.

The difference is that Western companies understand the end goal is something that's in good enough condition to run and not to ship broken crap that is cheap beyond a reasonable standard and make it hard to return. You won't catch them selling crap simply to make a quick buck like the Chinese do.

Western companies have a sense of honesty and duty to the customer; the Chinese companies not only understand, but they also happily exploit caveat emptor.

Western companies also have far better R&D and specs, so it makes sense the end product would be better than a Chinese-created and manufactured one. There's a very simple reason that Chinese made items are of such poor quality. It's a business strategy there.

Do you think a Western company could survive by being cheats?

Let me ask you something,

Which company is being more dishonest.? Company A is a Chinese company who makes a PSU, it costs them $10 to make, and it sells them for $15.

Company B is a western company who buys PSU from Asia for $25 and sells them for $90.

Although I hate cheap shit like anybody, you cant just say China are more dishonest than western companies. They produce products to price and specs, but the main focus and the thing that has made China a manufacturing giant is the cheap price. Apple has a great reputation for quality in the west but the iphone is made in China for $170 and sold in the west for like $800. Who is being more dishonest??

Its just wrong to say western companies are honest or have a duty to the customer. . Any benefits we have is due to consumer laws and regulation. 90% of Chinese goods are purchased and imported by western companies who then put their brand on it.,

There are plenty of good Chinese products, just about every component in you PC is made in China. You just need to be selective and do your research like any product.

One more thing about PSUs, I have an AX 850 that cost about $250 but ask any local computer store who makes basic computers and they will tell you 90% of their sales are for cheap $30 PSUs. For every quality PSU sold, they sell 1000 cheap PSUs because most people don't care. I've even built computers for people with $30 PSUs because even though I tried my hardest to convince the buyer the PSU is inefficient and possibly dangerous, they don't want to spend the money on a quality unit. They say well if it blows up, I'll just buy another one. Then I say, yeh but it could blow up your motherboard or other parts too when it fails. They say "oh well I'll take the chance" and that's what most people do. So if people are buying them, China will produce them but I cant see how its China's fault.

 

[Fidgetmaster]

There can be a few exceptions on certain cheaper/lower end psu's....you can actually improve/modify some quite a bit haha....most are just really bad though.... And Like I mentioned Capacitor quality is very Suspect in any Power supply.....In reality if it isn't Quality Japanese Panasonic/Nichicon/Chemicon I don't trust it near as much....

 

[canadianvice]

My rules are simple, simply avoid buying Chinese wherever possible.
I understand almost everything is made there, but Western companies understand Western standards of quality.

The whole Chinese business model is based on manufacturing crap and making it hard to return.

I almost put off my younger brother's build because I had to get a ThermalTake PSU, but he didn't have enough money to get a different one, so I figured I'd get the warranty and hope for the best.

Western is the only thing worth buying because Chinese means Chinese quality, and that's an oxymoron.

What about the norm of a Western company selling Chinese made goods though? Surely, if the 'Western companies understand Western standards of quality', as you say, they wouldn't dream of selling something that doesn't live up to their Western standards, right?

While your rule may sound like a sensible one in theory, you really need to keep in mind that manufacturing in China these days (like most other places) is based around building to a cost. If that cost, specified by the buyer (the company who will sell the product to the consumer), is realistically too low for what they want, they're going to get a low quality product. On the other hand, if the buyer specifies certain quality factors they want, and costs the product realistically, the product manufactured for them can be of very high quality.

So while it's easy to write off everything manufactured in China as being junk, that's really not fair. Items manufactured there do vary massively in quality, and that quality is signed off on by the company (western or not) that then sells the product, so they're just as culpable for any quality issues as the manufacturer.

At its simplest, I guess you could say it all comes down to that oft said cliche: you get what you pay for.

The difference is that Western companies understand the end goal is something that's in good enough condition to run and not to ship broken crap that is cheap beyond a reasonable standard and make it hard to return. You won't catch them selling crap simply to make a quick buck like the Chinese do.

Western companies have a sense of honesty and duty to the customer; the Chinese companies not only understand, but they also happily exploit caveat emptor.

Western companies also have far better R&D and specs, so it makes sense the end product would be better than a Chinese-created and manufactured one. There's a very simple reason that Chinese made items are of such poor quality. It's a business strategy there.

Do you think a Western company could survive by being cheats?

Let me ask you something,

Which company is being more dishonest.? Company A is a Chinese company who makes a PSU, it costs them $10 to make, and it sells them for $15.

Company B is a western company who buys PSU from Asia for $25 and sells them for $90.

Although I hate cheap shit like anybody, you cant just say China are more dishonest than western companies. They produce products to price and specs, but the main focus and the thing that has made China a manufacturing giant is the cheap price. Apple has a great reputation for quality in the west but the iphone is made in China for $170 and sold in the west for like $800. Who is being more dishonest??

Its just wrong to say western companies are honest or have a duty to the customer. . Any benefits we have is due to consumer laws and regulation. 90% of Chinese goods are purchased and imported by western companies who then put their brand on it.,

There are plenty of good Chinese products, just about every component in you PC is made in China. You just need to be selective and do your research like any product.

One more thing about PSUs, I have an AX 850 that cost about $250 but ask any local computer store who makes basic computers and they will tell you 90% of their sales are for cheap $30 PSUs. For every quality PSU sold, they sell 1000 cheap PSUs because most people don't care. I've even built computers for people with $30 PSUs because even though I tried my hardest to convince the buyer the PSU is inefficient and possibly dangerous, they don't want to spend the money on a quality unit. They say well if it blows up, I'll just buy another one. Then I say, yeh but it could blow up your motherboard or other parts too when it fails. They say "oh well I'll take the chance" and that's what most people do. So if people are buying them, China will produce them but I cant see how its China's fault.

I already recognized and refuted a lot of that - I know virtually everything is made in China. As for your point about consumer laws - the only such laws in Canada are those concerning safety. We're practically caveat emptor here.

The fact is that Western companies by and large have stricter standards of quality control - the goal is as always to make something as cheap as possible, but the fact is they make them solid enough that they aren't crap.

The Chinese deliberately make crap because it's insanely cheap (the only way they can undercut in a way compelling enough to get otherwise Western customers) and once they have your money they're gone. They make product with the intention of conning you, at least Western companies recognize they can't build a business model on that sort of dishonesty.

I've never, ever had a good experience with a Chinese company. Standard policy is make it hard to return, and keep a consumer's money. Plenty more will bite.

By comparison, Logitech, a Western company, didn't ask me for so much as a serial number before sending me a replacement mouse for a minor defect. They had no legal obligation to do so, but they understand that Westerners expect service and a degree of honesty.

You know - I will deliberately pay more to get Western product because it comes with customer service. If you buy China, you should get the in-store warranty, because you shouldn't expect any help from the company that made it. The Chinese cannot be trusted in the area of commerce.

Heck, you might as well start shipping to Nigeria while you're at it.

 

[kamhagh]

im not sure but my old psu killed my GPU and hdd, i looked and saw it almost has no protections or ect, from same brand i bought a 120$ 650w OC psu, looks 100x better ! cables arent stupid and horrible but still not flexible enough, rather than 2 CPU powers and the motherboard cables others are flat and good it also sounds really better !!!

never ever ever ever get a bad psu, just shared my experience im so lucky i didn't upgrade to gtx760 ! i was going to do it, than i saw im busy and i dont have time for games !

 

[Avro Arrow]

Quote from CanadianVice: Do you think a Western company could survive by being cheats?

For God's sake, you can't really be THAT naive can you? Please take the word "Canadian" out of your name because you're embarrassing those of us who don't belong in a trailer park. Western corporate successes that have cheated: GM - Corvair Scandal, Ford - Pinto/Bobcat Scandal, Intel - Antitrust Scandal, Exxon - Valdez Disaster, BP - Gulf of Mexico Disaster, Lockheed-Martin - Intentional F-35 cost overruns, nVidia - bullying review sites to make their cards look favourable, George Bush - Stealing election from John Kerry... shall I go on? Please go back under the rock you came from and let those who actually have a clue keep up an intelligent and informed discussion.

 

[canadianvice]

Quote from CanadianVice: Do you think a Western company could survive by being cheats?

For God's sake, you can't really be THAT naive can you? Please take the word "Canadian" out of your name because you're embarrassing those of us who don't belong in a trailer park. Western corporate successes that have cheated: GM - Corvair Scandal, Ford - Pinto/Bobcat Scandal, Intel - Antitrust Scandal, Exxon - Valdez Disaster, BP - Gulf of Mexico Disaster, Lockheed-Martin - Intentional F-35 cost overruns, nVidia - bullying review sites to make their cards look favourable, George Bush - Stealing election from John Kerry... shall I go on? Please go back under the rock you came from and let those who actually have a clue keep up an intelligent and informed discussion.

Okay, let's just keep reading into this something that isn't there.
Have I ever once mentioned the high-levels of corporate intrigue and espionage? I'm talking about a practicable, consumer-level concern.

If you want the skinny of my opinion, it's very simple: Don't buy Chinese. They can't be trusted and their explicit objective is to con you for your money; after that, to hell with you. Western companies don't generally observe that practice.

 

[Blaise170]

I will still prefer to use realhardtechx.com. Has all of the OEMs for power supplies just like here, but they have links to reviews around the net as well, for places like JonnyGURU. I find it far more helpful, especially when OEMs like CWT can be extraordinarily average or extraordinarily good.

 

[ubercake]

I will still prefer to use realhardtechx.com. Has all of the OEMs for power supplies just like here, but they have links to reviews around the net as well, for places like JonnyGURU. I find it far more helpful, especially when OEMs like CWT can be extraordinarily average or extraordinarily good.

Are you sure about that? Here's what I get when I go to that site:
Server not found

 

[Blaise170]

Are you sure about that? Here's what I get when I go to that site:
Server not found

Strangely the site is down right now, but if you are curious there are plenty of cached pages on Google you can look at until the site comes back up.

 

[Seth Schaffer]

I built the gaming PC I currently use just at the start of my entry to hobby level computer assembly. Just this morning my desktop shut off and it took me several power cycling attempts and a few minutes for me to get it to respond to a press of the power button. I have a very cheap 850W PSU from a manufacterer I haven't found anywhere else (Kenteck) in my build that I got off Ebay, and finding this article just now seems to have been quite he helpful coincidence. I was wary when I bought it about the very low $55 price tag but I haven't had many problems with the PSU until now, after 2 years of use. I have run a Radeon HD 7870XT vid card for over a year without a hitch along with recently upgrading to an FX 4130 CPU a few months back. I'm glad this article came along to get me to rethink my power supply. I'll be looking for a reputable brand 750+ W shortly!

 

[Blaise170]

Real Hard Tech X is back online.

 

[Fidgetmaster]

They have very good deals/value on some units though.....That EVGA 600b and a few of those XFX units in that $50-70 range....not bad at all for 80 plus Bronze psu...nothing real amazing but still solid units....Thinking about picking one up myself....

 

[MEC-777]

Information on your charts is incorrect. I have the Cooler Master GX series: RS-650w 80+ Bronze with UL # E320127. According to the chart the UL # says it's AcBel/Polytech, yet this PSU is not listed under the series/model numbers made by AcBel/Polytech. It's listed as being made by Enhance, which has a different UL #. So which is it? lol

*Edit* Did a little searching and discovered it is made by Enhance.

 

[Darkbreeze]

It would be nice to see this new information and updated reviews of vendor specific PSU models used to upgrade the current Tom's PSU tier list, which most of you know about.

 

[Vlad Rose]

<quote>
The difference is that Western companies understand the end goal is something that's in good enough condition to run and not to ship broken crap that is cheap beyond a reasonable standard and make it hard to return. You won't catch them selling crap simply to make a quick buck like the Chinese do.

Western companies have a sense of honesty and duty to the customer; the Chinese companies not only understand, but they also happily exploit caveat emptor.

Western companies also have far better R&D and specs, so it makes sense the end product would be better than a Chinese-created and manufactured one. There's a very simple reason that Chinese made items are of such poor quality. It's a business strategy there.

Do you think a Western company could survive by being cheats?
</quote>

Keep believing that. Trust me, every company (regardless of location) is out to do the same thing; make a profit. Honesty and duty to the customer is not part of that equation. There are quite a few junk western companies out there as well. Ever hear of Coby or Apex?
The biggest reason why we hear of all these junk Chinese companies is due to what is decided to be shipped to us. Chinese companies also deal with a much larger market as their population is quite a bit larger and some companies can survive selling junk as a result. I had asked my wife (who is Chinese) if there are good brands in China. They have quite a few companies that sell equipment that is as good if not better than anything else out there. Look up Huahei corporation sometime for a perfect example.
And since were's on the subject of "Us vs. Them", look into how many companies are now global meaning that they're located and operated in both countries. Lenovo and Nexteer (a major car electronic power steering system manufacturer) are 2 more examples.
Btw, the Logitech example you gave later is not a western company. It is Swiss: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech .

 

[Darkbreeze]

I built the gaming PC I currently use just at the start of my entry to hobby level computer assembly. Just this morning my desktop shut off and it took me several power cycling attempts and a few minutes for me to get it to respond to a press of the power button. I have a very cheap 850W PSU from a manufacterer I haven't found anywhere else (Kenteck) in my build that I got off Ebay, and finding this article just now seems to have been quite he helpful coincidence. I was wary when I bought it about the very low $55 price tag but I haven't had many problems with the PSU until now, after 2 years of use. I have run a Radeon HD 7870XT vid card for over a year without a hitch along with recently upgrading to an FX 4130 CPU a few months back. I'm glad this article came along to get me to rethink my power supply. I'll be looking for a reputable brand 750+ W shortly!

You'll want to look at the Tier list, if you haven't already, located here: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1804779/power-supply-unit-tier-list.html

 

[canadianvice]

<quote>
The difference is that Western companies understand the end goal is something that's in good enough condition to run and not to ship broken crap that is cheap beyond a reasonable standard and make it hard to return. You won't catch them selling crap simply to make a quick buck like the Chinese do.

Western companies have a sense of honesty and duty to the customer; the Chinese companies not only understand, but they also happily exploit caveat emptor.

Western companies also have far better R&D and specs, so it makes sense the end product would be better than a Chinese-created and manufactured one. There's a very simple reason that Chinese made items are of such poor quality. It's a business strategy there.

Do you think a Western company could survive by being cheats?
</quote>

Keep believing that. Trust me, every company (regardless of location) is out to do the same thing; make a profit. Honesty and duty to the customer is not part of that equation. There are quite a few junk western companies out there as well. Ever hear of Coby or Apex?
The biggest reason why we hear of all these junk Chinese companies is due to what is decided to be shipped to us. Chinese companies also deal with a much larger market as their population is quite a bit larger and some companies can survive selling junk as a result. I had asked my wife (who is Chinese) if there are good brands in China. They have quite a few companies that sell equipment that is as good if not better than anything else out there. Look up Huahei corporation sometime for a perfect example.
And since were's on the subject of "Us vs. Them", look into how many companies are now global meaning that they're located and operated in both countries. Lenovo and Nexteer (a major car electronic power steering system manufacturer) are 2 more examples.
Btw, the Logitech example you gave later is not a western company. It is Swiss: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech .

I don't mean to be rude, but are you seriously mentally deficient with that last line?
SWISS IS EUROPEAN. WESTERN. I was speaking on an abstract, civilizational level. WEST and EAST. sort of thing.

The simple fact is I haven't had a Western company cheat me yet, while the Chinese have made it a national sport. If you want to make sure you're in the best stead possible, don't buy Chinese. It's simple. They don't care (I am not so stupid as to think every corporation does, but western ones are acutely aware that western consumers do not operate on the principle of Caveat emptor like the chinese do). We expect a level of honesty, and if it doesn't come through, we give them hell.

The Chinese (Corps, not people) know we will, but they don't care.
"Har har har! We have your money!"

 

[Fidgetmaster]

Maybe you just need to be more realistic and realize being cheated isn't just limited to Chinese...more like everyone really haha

 

[Vlad Rose]

*** I don't mean to be rude, but are you seriously mentally deficient with that last line?
SWISS IS EUROPEAN. WESTERN. I was speaking on an abstract, civilizational level. WEST and EAST. sort of thing. ***

Mentally deficient; how is not trying to be rude? As far as I'm aware of, when you say western, most people will refer to the United States region, not European region since it's nowhere near the western side of a world map. Maybe next time you should clarify a little better before flaming someone.