Whose buying next gen then?

speeduk · Apr 29, 2004

I have my £400 sitting here. Anyone else taking the plunge?

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7737657" target="_new"> My rig </A>

dhlucke · Apr 29, 2004

I am but I'm thinking of waiting a drop longer for pci-ex since I want to do a huge upgrade.

_______________________________________________
Nov. 6, 1971: "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals"

- John Kerry, a Presidential Candidate

pauldh · Apr 29, 2004

Ya, I am sitting on the R9800 Pro for a while. I think it will take pci-ex to hook me as well. We'll have to see.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

rx7000 · Apr 29, 2004

I was gonna jump right away for the 6800 but im gonna at least wait till they compare it with whatever thing radeon throws out (thanks to some voices of reason).

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE

Crashman · Apr 29, 2004

I'll have a new card as soon as someone sends me another free one, until then I'll use my free AIW 9600 Pro.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

scottchen · Apr 29, 2004

You lucky b@stard!!

<A HREF="http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/myrig.php?do=view&id=17301" target="_new">My PC</A>

scottchen · Apr 29, 2004

Asus V9990Ultra, I found it at a distributor, priced at 570CAD. MSRP... you don't want to know, Asus wants 799.99CAD for it.

<A HREF="http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/myrig.php?do=view&id=17301" target="_new">My PC</A>

Crashman · Apr 29, 2004

What, is it my fault if I voluntered and you didn't?

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

coylter · Apr 29, 2004

my next upgrade is in september

A64 3700+ socket 9xx
2x512mb
Ati x800xt (if its better than the nv one)
mobo with nforce 3 250g

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360) , 512mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2), Asus A7N8X-X

scottchen · Apr 29, 2004

If I were you i'd hold off 'til next year for AMD's 90nm process. And the socket is 939, the mobo is Nforce3 250GB.

<A HREF="http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/myrig.php?do=view&id=17301" target="_new">My PC</A>

splenda20 · Apr 29, 2004

I feel no need to upgrade yet.
I'll wait until there is NEED to upgrade.
When it comes to graphics cards my rule for upgrading is simple: Never upgrade until there is a game out that does not perform to my satisfaction.

There isn't a game out right now that my 9500Pro can't handle to my satisfaction, as soon as there is, I'll upgrade to the best card that I can afford at that time. Maybe when Doom 3 and/or HL2 are released I'll get a new card, but not until I play those games on my own system and see them with my own eyes and not just benchmarks.

hogfather · Apr 29, 2004

That's the best way to do it imo. My GF4 MX440 still runs all the games I play (UT2004, 03, CoD, GP4 and GPL) nicely so I'm going to hold out a while longer. I'm gonna wait to see if the prices of the 9800 pro drop below £150, then consider it, as I'm a student and really haven't the cash to b upgrading as often as I'd like.

XP2000, 512 ddr 2700ram, GF4 MX440, XP Pro

TheGreatGrapeApe · Apr 29, 2004

Present!

Ok, so is this a support group or are we all being hearded up and shot in the head?

Buying Next-Gen? For sure which one depends on the features/performance/price.

Anything from the R423/NV45 to the RV380/NV43 (maybe an RV370 (0.11 process) or RV410 [or nV equivalent] if they arrive soon enough and are interesting enough).

I'm a little dissapointed that best performance (likely X880) will probably not mean most features (NV40 IMO). Thankfully by the time PCI-EX comes out alot of that will have been exposed, making choices easier.

I'd also like to see what ATI has planned for AIW-HD and if nV has a similar Cinema Series card. Although with PCI-EX 1-4X perhaps even an HDTV-wonder or hauppauge equivalent may be worth a look (nice to be able to upgrade without having to keep upgrading with an AIW part).

BTW, Splenda, if you want a board to last longer, PCI-EX will be the way to go, however if you're only upgrading one thing now, I'd agree not much need. But some people want new mobo, and new card, for us I think next gen is a must (if you can call an X800 'next gen' anymore [it's not the R400/500 we expected]). Even for those upgrading everything, there should be the RV380(X600?) which will offer ok mid-range perfromance.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

cryo · Apr 29, 2004

but are we really sure that the PCI-EX is going to become the real standard? I mean, look at the RIMM memory (first example that comes to mind): a couple of years ago they were presented as the future of desktop pc's (you will be certainly doomed if you still buy a MB without RIMM support, they said). They are almost absent in today's world... only used in a few servers , with no real presence in the average consumer PC. Or being used by this average user means becoming a standard.

Since the bus speed is by no means the bottleneck in today's (and even tomorrow's) graphic cards, I do not really see the reason for PCI-EX to become the new standard (well, except for PR purposes). It might be very possible that 3 years from now, 90% of the new PC's will still be using AGP or a derivate, and not the PCI-EX.

So I will definitely not rush out to get a PCI-EX MB or video card....

just my 2 cents

Edit: just remembered that, when asked about the visible benefits of the PCI-EX, the only thing they could come up with was real-time high quality video editting. Beginning to see the resemblance with the RIMM case?

"I cannot give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma"
- The Wizard of Oz, talking to the ScarecrowEdited by cryo on 04/29/04 09:33 AM.

Slava · Apr 29, 2004

RDRAM did not become a standard not because it was inferior but because it was much more expensive. Believe it or not, my 3-year old Kingston PC-800 RDRAM is still equal to or outperforms most of the DDR/dualDDR out there at least according to Sandra 2004 SP-1.

On the other hand, it looks like PCI-E motherboards/components may actually be cheaper than today’s solutions.

Read here <A HREF="http://www.evga.com/articles/public.asp?AID=146 " target="_new">http://www.evga.com/articles/public.asp?AID=146 </A> all about concepts and design challenges regarding PCI-E

Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig every three years or one half-decent one every year?
I got no sense of humor but my porn is better than yours!

cryo · Apr 29, 2004

even if they would be actually cheaper to produce, they might end up being much costlier (to the buyer) than the current solutions (think about the design costs, and the need to manufacture an additional line of products). In the case of NVidia cards, there are 99% chances that they will be more expensive than the AGP cards, considering that basically they are the same AGP cards, but with an added AGP - PCI-EX bridge.
All we can do in this moment is speculate. We'll see what the future holds for us....

P.S. there is a big difference between being better and being the standard, and you just confirmed that

"I cannot give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma"
- The Wizard of Oz, talking to the Scarecrow

TheGreatGrapeApe · Apr 29, 2004

but are we really sure that the PCI-EX is going to become the real standard?

Yep! At least until something replaces it later. Intel, nVidia and Ati's support is all it requires. That nV and ATI have both said that the NV40 and R420 will be their last top of the line AGP cards makes it certain.

And it doesn't matter what the average user uses or not, otherwise 4X and 8X aren't standards either, since the majority of cards out there are probably slower cards. It's not what you will use that counts, it's what will be implemented on NEW gear that matters more. That most people don't have DTV, let alone HDTV does not change the fact that those are both 'standards'.

Since the bus speed is by no means the bottleneck in today's (and even tomorrow's) graphic cards

That's a pretty brash statement considering the technologies are different and have different benifits. And if the R9800 series can start to show difference in 4X to 8X that doesn't mean there isn't benifits. And no one can talk about the future cards until they've tried them, especially not until future games test those boundaries.

It might be very possible that 3 years from now, 90% of the new PC's will still be using AGP or a derivate, and not the PCI-EX.

Irrelevant what 90% of the computers use, but 90% of the NEW omputers will definitly NOT have AGP as it's being dropped, even from integrated graphics. The presence of AGP in future new boards will be like ISA now. There will be rare examples, but they will be the exception and not the rule.

PCI-EX is here, it already IS a standard, and it's easier/cheaper to make chipsets that support it than to add AGP. The final word is that if you look at all the chipmakers' (mobo/cpu/vpu) roadmaps, agp doesn't appear anywhere beyond 2004.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

cleeve · Apr 29, 2004

I think GW said it best. to paraphrase:

"I don't plan to buy any of these cards, I just want to argue about which one is better".

I always buy the second-tier cards when they hit the $200 mark... if it's time to upgrade.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 340/310)
AthlonXP ~2750+ (2400+ @2.2Ghz)
3dMark03: 4,055

Slava · Apr 29, 2004

Irrelevant what 90% of the computers use, but 90% of the NEW omputers will definitly NOT have AGP as it's being dropped, even from integrated graphics. The presence of AGP in future new boards will be like ISA now. There will be rare examples, but they will be the exception and not the rule.

PCI-EX is here, it already IS a standard, and it's easier/cheaper to make chipsets that support it than to add AGP. The final word is that if you look at all the chipmakers' (mobo/cpu/vpu) roadmaps, agp doesn't appear anywhere beyond 2004.

I second all of this. I've done some reading in the last couple of days and while I have no problems with discussions in general, I find it more productive when discussions are not based on pure speculation.

I believe that if cryo read the article I linked to in my post above he would not continue to question the future of PCI-E. Come on, guys, some of us are trying hard to make useful posts but the rest of ya should do a little bit of homeowork too.

Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig every three years or one half-decent one every year?I got no sense of humor but my porn is better than yours!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Apr 29, 2004

LOL!

Come on, guys, some of us are trying hard to make useful posts but the rest of ya should do a little bit of homeowork too.

Harsh, but I agree. :evil:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

TheGreatGrapeApe · Apr 29, 2004

There's a little more info from XbitLabs about PCI-EX and DDR2;

<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/pci-express.html" target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/pci-express.html</A>

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

speeduk · Apr 29, 2004

Just a general question. Seems like I will be one of the few to buy a 6800u or X800pro/XT. Got my £400 sitting here ready to throw away. Cant wait to do X2/UT2K4 and 3dmark runs on my 2.3gig A64 with one of them oced to the max.

=)

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7737657" target="_new"> My rig </A>

sirak · Apr 30, 2004

I've been holding out for a long time with my GF3 Ti200 (got it 2 1/2 yrs ago) since it still runs most games just fine. The 9800pro for ~$200 is tempting, but I've waited this long, so I might as well wait for the x800 or 6800 (or slower variants) to drop below $300. That way I can hold out for another 2 1/2 years.

----------------------
PIV 2.4c @ 3.12ghz
1gig PC3200 (512mbx2)
ASUS P4P800
GF3 Ti200 64mb (soon to be replaced)
WinXP Pro
3DMark2001SE: 6453
3DMark2003: 746

rx7000 · Apr 30, 2004

"That's the best way to do it imo. My GF4 MX440 still runs all the games I play (UT2004, 03, CoD, GP4 and GPL) nicely"

Is your mx440 agp? My pci version card is rotten, It did "alright" until BFV.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE

dhlucke · Apr 30, 2004

Some of you here don't have the same definition of "playable" that the rest of us have.

Playing everything at medium settings on a dx8 card with 30fps and no aa or af sucks.

_______________________________________________
Nov. 6, 1971: "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine medals"

- John Kerry, a Presidential Candidate

Whose buying next gen then?

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