Why HDCP Sucks; Apple, Are You Listening?

[HVDynamo]

[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]Because I don't have an HDCP LCD, I can't buy the movies from iTunes. I would love to, but since I can't play them, why bother? Sadly, I am at a loss, and I can't be Apple's customer even if I wanted to. What do I have to do? Replace my 30-inch LCD for one that is HDCP compliant? No thanks. Frustrating./ Tuan[/citation]


I am in that same situation only with a 24-inch monitor that basically does serve as my TV right now as well as a monitor. I am not willing to buy a new LCD just so I can have some stupid chip in it that says I can watch HD, its Bulls***. In every other sense that monitor would work. I have made the exact same argument as your article here to numerous people, I hope these big companies will wake up one day and realize they are losing business in people that are more than willing to pay a Reasonable price on a product that I can enjoy where I want to enjoy it. iTunes still hasn't gotten me to switch from buying CD's, 256kb/s audio encoding still isn't as good of quality as a CD is. Anyhow, Great work on the article!

 

[SAL-e]

Hi Tuan,

I admire your courage to take on unpopular subject in the media. From your previous posts I can tell we don't see eye-to-eye on many thinks, but I like that you are trying to explain your point of view and at the same time your are accepting that there are different opinions.

Personally I saw the true nature of the big media companies when they invaded the emerging markets in East Europe after the collapse of the Berlin Wall. Since then I never purchased a single CD and still enjoy my old CDs and it is not bad. I read much more today then ever.

But I would like to point-out one inconsistency in your view:

[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]However, Apple has a dominance over online music, in a very big way. This is why they were able to go DRM-free with iTunes Plus. Based on iTunes size, revenue, and dominance, Apple has a way with the music industry. iTunes is an extremely powerful force in the music industry.[/citation]

1. Apple's iTunes become #1 because the DRM. They was the first one to introduce it and tide iPod with iTunes. That is why they able to secure contracts with big labels.
2. Apple is the last one from the big online music stores to offer popular music without DRM and Apple did it 2 year after Amazon, eMusic, and etc.
3. Apple still sells DRM crippled music.
4. Steve Jobs has expressed his opposition against DRM on music because there is unprotected media like CDs, not because DRM is bad for his customers. In fact he still supports the DRM on movies. Why?...
5. Steve Jobs is the biggest single share holder in Disney. So he has direct influence over the industry, but I don't see him acting like a true leader instead he is supporting the DRM.

Never the less you have my support in your quest to find the true. What I would like you to see your take on guys like http://www.defectivebydesign.org
They are political organization and I have my reservations when it comes to political organizations. I lived under communist propaganda for very long and I don't trust any politician.
I would love to see your comments on some of their arguments:
Day 15: Steve Jobs
Ask Apple about the iPhone
They are advocating for elimination of DRM for several years, but the media companies are ignoring them and this is not good for anyone.

My personal take on DRM is that is useless:
1. It prevents me to enjoy any digital content: Music, Movies, eBooks, and etc. on devices of my choice.
2. Technology that prevents the enjoyment of the art simply can not be good for any artist. It is simply bad karma.

Cheers,
SAL-e

 

[Guest]

I agree with the fact that price movie and music media is really expensive, and that if they lower their prices it would be way better and actually works, I live in Mexico city and here piracy is extremely common and cheap(sometimes you can be inside the subway and you can find pirated movies inside the train at about 1 dollar or even less), because of this 3 or 4 years ago the companies started to release older movies at special prices, now you can find a lot of movies that were released on dvd less than 6 months ago at prices of 6 dollars (current exchange rate of 14 pesos for a dollar i bought batman begins dvd for this price less than 6 months after the dvd was released) and in some cases even newer releases in strip down versions that only contain the movie for this 6 dollars, and that isn't the only price for example i can go and buy a trainspotting brand new dvd for about 3 dollars at many stores, but this pricing strategy only works here in Mexico city because in other cities in this country where piracy is less of an issue they still charge higher rates (in Monterrey Nuevo Leon the same batman begins movie costs around 10-15 dollars).

As you can see they can do a lot better but the people has to make them do what is right and to charge the right amount for the movies

 

[Guest]

Itunes is a POS anyway, at least on Windows. I can think of quite a few programs that "just work" waaay better than that. Thumbs down to digital content protection

 

[joebob2000]

[citation][nom]poseidon2112[/nom]So, before you come onto a forum filled with a group of people who (for the most part) understand what exactly is going on with regards to music/movies and drm, please try to get your facts straight by understanding what is really going on between the entertainment business and the consumer.Thanks.[/citation]

The bottom line is that those things do NOT work. If the new-media culture was really successful, why can't they out-compete the old-media one? The fact of the matter is that if the grassroots systems you propose that are the solution to the "problem" of you not liking any of the music on the top 40 actually worked, they would have proven it with sales. The reality is that the money still flows in great quantities to the old-media companies, while grassroots bands and distribution systems twist in the wind fighting for the scarce dollars spent by people like you who think the world is changing. It is not.

Learn a thing or two about capitalism before you dismiss my assertions simply because you don't like how they sound. Your argument is terribly thin.

 

[joebob2000]

Just for the record, I am not here to troll, to discredit this pretty decent article, or even to argue. I want you guys to hear what you sound like to the rest of the world. If you keep making this thin "drm is trash, get rid of it or people are gonna pirate" argument you are just fueling the fire. Until you can make a compelling argument that addresses both sides of this, you are going to be stuck where you are for a long long time. I really want to see something better DRM come out of the media economy (what we have now is crap, no doubt.) But, since it's going to be there no matter what, you guys need to give up this radical stand and start coming up with a solution that works for both sides.

 

[nerrawg]

Great article on HDCP Tuan!

On the more general issue of copyright reform in the US, I know of one stanford professor who is on the case:

Lawrence Lessig.

Give his lecture on media reform and legislature a check if you like - it might provide you with a deeper perspective regarding how we have come to the copyright laws currently in place - even though they contradict the Constitution and 7 Nobel Prize winners in economics including Milton Friedman have called for reform of these laws.

http://odeo.com/episodes/22593106-Lawrence-Lessig-s-presentation-to-NCMR-2008

If people like you and me can't be bothered to step up and contribute to solving these problems, then I guess we just deserve what we get.

 

[nerrawg]

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]Just for the record, I am not here to troll, to discredit this pretty decent article, or even to argue. I want you guys to hear what you sound like to the rest of the world. If you keep making this thin "drm is trash, get rid of it or people are gonna pirate" argument you are just fueling the fire. Until you can make a compelling argument that addresses both sides of this, you are going to be stuck where you are for a long long time. I really want to see something better DRM come out of the media economy (what we have now is crap, no doubt.) But, since it's going to be there no matter what, you guys need to give up this radical stand and start coming up with a solution that works for both sides.[/citation]

The argument is in the above link - might I add that it profoundly lucid as well

 

[SAL-e]

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]Just for the record, I am not here to troll, to discredit this pretty decent article, or even to argue. I want you guys to hear what you sound like to the rest of the world. If you keep making this thin "drm is trash, get rid of it or people are gonna pirate" argument you are just fueling the fire. Until you can make a compelling argument that addresses both sides of this, you are going to be stuck where you are for a long long time. I really want to see something better DRM come out of the media economy (what we have now is crap, no doubt.) But, since it's going to be there no matter what, you guys need to give up this radical stand and start coming up with a solution that works for both sides.[/citation]
Actually I love the capitalism because the free market is based on principles and it is self regulated no need for government involvement. The key for success is that every participant is a free to make a choice and accept the responsibility of his/her choice. But in the past capitalism was based on other economic theory called Mercantilism where government (European kings)was assigning monopolies to their puppets. During that time European Powers rose very quickly, but at the same time it is the primary cause for all the wars that followed. The mercantilism is heavily rejected from modern economist starting with Adam Smith. The roots of the current patent system and especially of the copyright system can be traced back to the English King and mercantilism. The copyright was introduced as censorship when the printpress become widely available. Today the censorship was transfer from government to small number of people, but it has not change in its nature. That is why most of the young artist never going to lived to their potentials because they are competition for the few selected by the media companies. That is why we are forced to buy a single CD containing 1 or 2 good songs and the rest is a crap. That is why most popular CDs distributed by underground world are the Mixes containing song from different authors and singers/bands. The good news is that principles always prevail. We can live our lives in alignment with the principles and be happy or live against them and pay the price at the end. For example you can choose to jump from the tall building with out parachute, but you can not choose what will happen when you hit the ground. We can not create a new principles we only can recognize them. You can choose to use the parachute when you jump, but it only going to slow down your fall and you going to hit the ground any way.
The current executives of the media companies are selecting to act against the principles of the free market and they are finding that piracy is stronger and they know that will loose on the end. Only way for them is to change or die. We at war right now until they recognize our right to select the songs or movies from the artist we want to buy at the price that we want to pay and listen or watch them on devices of our choice. We are not going to backup. Those demands are based on principles and they will prevail at the end.

 

[solymnar]

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]Is it the pricing, or the DRM? Or the lack of quality? Or excuse XYZ? It is also perfectly logical that piracy scales with ease: it was perfectly possible to pirate whatever you wanted to 20 years ago, and videos were just as "overpriced" back in the VHS days... Music too.[/citation]

This is partially the author's main point. If its notably easier to pirate than purchase, then you litterally end up paying to be intentionally inefficient with your time. Invasive protection schemes that jack up your computer or make the media you paid for partially useless because you can't actually play it on various things you own STRONGLY encourage people to get hacked copies that they can simply load on their devices and take with them. As you say, convinience becomes a primary driving force. Thus companies trying to sell things should focus on...making access and use as easy as humanly possible, incorporating a protection scheme only where it can be done without making the end user miserable.

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]Yet, somehow, it only became fashionable to stockpile tons of pirated music right about when computers and internet connections were fast enough to handle transferring them in short periods without much cost.[/citation]

This is a bit misleading. People copied songs like mad on tapes. From ones they bought...off the radio...constantly, the hardware to do it was readily available, extremely easy to use and cheap. The bigger difference here is storage and durration. Tapes wear out eventually and both tapes and CD's take up a ton of space as you build a collection. So the moment mp3's came out many of us rejoiced and built our music collections like never before because the constraints were essentially wiped. Of course this made copying even easier still as well but on the whole I don't feel people spend significantly more time pirating now than they did back when tapes were standard, in fact less people do it simply because ironically not as many people know how to, sure its piss easy to anyone remotely computer savy (torrents, ripping, etc.) but a lot of people can't do much beyond email and some basic programs on their systems. That said for the people who do pirate its done far and away more efficiently. Thus the argument that distribution needs to be more efficient to counter. If its super easy to get what I want then I have less desire to learn how to rip or use torrent clients etc.

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]You guys can go on all day about how ATI and Apple are evil since they are puppets for "the man" and they are pushing DRM down our throats. What you don't seem to get is that this is a war worth fighting to them, since WE are doing things just as dirty as they are (torrenting full res movies, high def audio, whatever we want, out in the open.)[/citation]


Its not about good and evil, its about being effective. Any "solution" that makes things a pita for people to buy discourages buying. Thus its not likely a good idea to implement. It helps justify people ripping off games or songs that will either hose their system or not be able to actually play them on their non-apple media player etc. etc. Of course the counter argument is "well they have to protect their media somehow". And I agree. But if the cure is worse then the poison I would argue in favor of waiting for a better cure and moderating the effects of the poison as much as possible in the interim...aka making it as painless and easy as possible for people to buy.

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]Do you want this to end? It won't end when the hardware manufacturers give up, the media companies will just come down harder somewhere else.What no one seems to be willing to talk about is how this will actually end, you just want to talk about the next big thing that will prolong the fight. And as this comment gets thumbed down, just remember, for every one of you who shouts "down with the mass media overlords!" there is a guy waiting to wrap stronger DRM around the next HD movie format just so he can keep the fight going. [/citation]

And understandibly so. We use blockbuster's mail service and I have yet to rip a movie or feel the need to do so. If there is a new release that I'm burning to watch blockbuster has cupons included in their service which allow me to run to a location and grab a rental for free. And now they are moving towards making movies available online. If they get it right and make it part of their subscription service I can't help but think it will be a good thing. The price is fair, the distribution and selection is efficient, I have no desire to pirate.

Steam accomplishes things pretty well also I feel. Instead of the steam service being a bottleneck they make it something desirable with updates and assitance to multiplayer etc. Xbox360 does the same with their live service.

Ultimately you've got to make the cure taste good if you want people to swallow, even if its for their own good.

Its not good/evil, its marketing and consumer relations. I don't feel well designed subscription oriented services can solve every situation but they so far have had the most success. But of course the situation is a bit complicated. Musicians in the mean time will have to simply distribute in any way they can to get recognition and rake in on concerts. Its a rough life as a musician either way and the record companies often screw them over historically long before mp3s existed.

 

[kartu]

[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]Actually I love the capitalism because the free market is based on principles and it is self regulated no need for government involvement. [/citation]
Self-regulated, right... We've just seen it self regulate itself in the US in 2008...

The whole idea behind those systems was:
1) to produce goods/services more effectively
2) to distribute them in a fair way

Capitalism was much better at 1) and bad to poor at 2), while "communism" was quite good at 2) but terrible at 1).

Now "digital content" is where capitalism fails miserably. Content, which could be distributed to just any household that has internet access for next to no cost must be SOLD for not that small amount of money and only to a much smaller number of people. There are a lot of people who just cannot afford paying 15-25 euros for it. (even in industrial countries like, for example, Germany) It just makes the world worse.

Oh, and I am not buying "poor Sir McCartney needs another billion for a new wife" argument. The whole "poor artists", when talking about guys who get up to tens of millions for a few months job, just sounds cynical.

 

[kiss4luna]

Yes, copy-protection is totally suck and ruined many of my DVD collections( they're all copyrighted).

 

[solymnar]

[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]Self-regulated, right... We've just seen it self regulate itself in the US in 2008... The whole idea behind those systems was:1) to produce goods/services more effectively2) to distribute them in a fair wayCapitalism was much better at 1) and bad to poor at 2), while "communism" was quite good at 2) but terrible at 1).[/citation]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your thoughts but I'm pretty sure from every account I've had of people in comunist countries the distribution is utterly crappy and not remotely fair.

[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]Now "digital content" is where capitalism fails miserably. Content, which could be distributed to just any household that has internet access for next to no cost must be SOLD for not that small amount of money and only to a much smaller number of people. There are a lot of people who just cannot afford paying 15-25 euros for it. (even in industrial countries like, for example, Germany) It just makes the world worse. [/citation]

They are definitely overpriced. A simplified version of the problem goes like this. In order for a musician to make any real money they need fame. Fame can be bought but its expensive and musicians by and large have no capitol to invest in marketing campaigns nor the business/tech savy to do it. So a record company sees a band they think is marketable and offers a deal. The band signs and the company starts marketing them and managing them. In most cases the company covers its butt by having the contract set to make sure the band pays back nearly every red copper invested in them. Few bands actually achieve this and so go into major debt in a hurry and are suddenly at the mercy of the record company "helping" them. There are a lot of good articals on this but that's my cut and dried version. In any case its the record companies setting the price, not the musicians themselves in the vast majority of cases.

[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]Oh, and I am not buying "poor Sir McCartney needs another billion for a new wife" argument. The whole "poor artists", when talking about guys who get up to tens of millions for a few months job, just sounds cynical. [/citation]

Worldwide there are VERY few musicians that are actually wealthy. There are many famous musicians but fame does not = personal wealth. Many of the videos etc. are designed in many cases to make them look that way of course but that's all marketing. You give the impression of great sucess to encourage people to spend on you "this person is doing well...their music must be really good!".

Most musicians that have real money also have a good business head on their shoulders and didn't get murdered by their record company, or busted tail to get out from under them and eventually become their own producers etc. This is the exception however rather than the norm.

Its a catch 22 for them in many many ways. Ideally they market themselves, burn their own CD's for dirt cheap and sell them at reasonable prices at their gigs and online and build fame up to be able to start selling concert tickets etc. and keep smart with their resources. Its an insane amount of work and takes a good head with numbers and array of skills to pull off. If your focus is your art, then you usually don't have all those skills and just hope you don't get taken advantage of too badly and maybe you'll get lucky.

 

[SAL-e]

[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]Self-regulated, right... We've just seen it self regulate itself in the US in 2008... [/citation]
Yes, exactly. Current crisis in US is direct result of attempt to manipulate the market. For many years different US presidents were conducting social politics by poring money into financial sector in order to provide "affordable loans" and ensuring those loans. Now we are paying the price for that. The principles always prevail.
The same think happen in Bulgaria for example. The communist government was taking loans in order to preserve the good image, but at the end everything collapsed and now Bulgaria is under strict financial monitoring by IMFF. Bulgaria can not spend any money without IMFF approval until Bulgaria re-pay every dollar plus interest.
The same thing happen in East Germany. Only difference is that West Germany assumed the East Germany obligations. As far I know Germany still is struggling to get back in tracks. But Germany will succeed, but I am not very sure about other countries like Bulgaria, Romania and etc.
Going back on our original subject about music industry. Do you know what is common between Music Industry and Communism?
Both are monopolies. The communism is government monopoly. The music industry is privately held monopoly granted by the government through copyright laws. So for me is clear cut why the music industry is failing. The only way for the music industry is to start playing by the rules of the open market or use their monopolistic power and bribe the government. The government can continue in the same course and fail at the end. Revolution any one? Well, It has happen before it will happen again unless we start learning our lessens from the history.

 

[Guest]

Trash iTunes and get eJukebox if you are on Windows.

 

[solymnar]

[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom] It has happen before it will happen again unless we start learning our lessens from the history.[/citation]

Only problem being every generation thinks its smarter than the previous one and can find ways around those problems. Sometimes they're right, that's called progress. I like to call that progress. Of course blindly doing something without researching similar cases and studies is...well...rather stupid.

Here's to hoping progress can be made.

 

[eraigames]

I have yet to see any comments about this so let me chime in as the unofficial "foreign correspondent." One more thing about all this DRM and related mess that has gone unnoticed is that people living in other countries are getting screwed royally. I live in Japan but the gaming market here has long since died... especially for the PS3 and the PC. There is NOTHING in the way of PC gaming here and the PS3 has less than a quarter of the games that are available for the system in the U.S.

Most of the good games never get released here or if they do, they get aweful Japanese dubs (yes folks it goes both ways).

Anyway, I tried ordering some games via direct download services... and was denied because I live in Japan. The services are apparently only available to those living in the Americas and Europe. I have also tried old-fashioned ordering services and was told by every shop that they do not sell to customers living in Japan.

Well I may as well get the infamous "P" tattooed on my arm because these companies just made a pirate of me!

 

[Guest]

I think a good way to stop DRM, HDCP, etc. is to actually create a public site, hosted somewhere in Russia, China, Bangladesh (or any other country that does not give a damn about copy protection) that teaches EVERYBODY how to easily bypass those protections. Because they CAN be easily bypassed, and you can easily get DRM free copies of ANYTHING, in full HD, using only free or very cheap software.

Then maybe the Audio/Video/Software industries would try to hunt down the real problems they have... and let us play the disks we bought on any device we can, whenever we want and as many times as we want.

 

[issar85]

To be honest, I really don't think Apple gives a crap about that. This HDCP would affect only the minis and the Mac Pros, but since all Apple displays are HDCP capable and so are their graphics cards, Apple doesn't care. They'll just say, "Are you using an Apple display? No? Then get an Apple display for your Apple computer and have a happy Apple life."

 

[PrangeWay]

Yeah you have to remember itunes only removed DRM's because there was some erosion in their market share due to all their competetors being DRM free. Apple is all about money and profit, and losing the DRM helped that. For their HD movies it'll be the same, you need another company to come in offering DRM free HD movies and grab some market share b4 Apple will ever, ever think of giving up a cash cow.

 

[wiyosaya]

I'm sure that "copy protection" is behind a number of things in the US. Personally, I would like to see a stand-alone blu-ray recorder for sale in the US. However, I bet it is "copy protection" that is preventing them from being in the US market, so far.

IMHO, copy protection does hurt the legitimate user far more than it does the pirate. Who, in their right mind, would use a single disc stand alone blu-ray recorder to make copies of blu-ray discs for the "pirate" market.

Also, I am willing to bet that the lack of stand-alone blu-ray recorders in the US is hurting the US blu-ray market.

It is unfortunate that Sony, having fought for "fair use" laws when they introduced VCRs back in the mid 80's, has now become a content provider and is likely as much to blame as is Apple for the HDCP mess. All I have to say is let them keep insisting that they need HDCP to prevent pirating. They will likely hurt themselves more than they will the average user who will find other means of obtaining content, or just not bothering with it.

 

[martin0642]

The real issue here is that the industry has not done a real cost/benefit workup, they just listened to the DRM producing companies which promised them a wonderland.

Does DRM prevent piracy? No.
Does DRM harass legitimate users? Yes.
Does DRM result in greater profit? No.

Doing "something" because you can't think of anything better to do is pure insanity if that "something" does not address the problems at hand.

However, providing all media, to all devices, at all times, with no strings, with a single sign on and maybe a yearly fee for bandwidth of like 5 bucks per person would work, would address the problem, and would shrink piracy because going around and digging for the stuff takes time and converting things into multiple formats just to watch them on your device of choice wastes even more.

Ubiquitous media availability is where it's at. Make paying sufficiently affordable, streamlined, and time saving and then pure laziness will lead to less piracy.

 

[A Stoner]

Seems kind of odd that when I post that the number one reason for people using P2P networks to get DRM free software, I am hammered down into deep negative numbers. Here this person is saying the exact same thing. I pay for all my software that I am required to. But any of the software that I pay for that has this DRM crap attached, I download a DRM free version. If one is not available, I refuse to purchase, it is as simple as that. If a company goes to too great a length to prevent me from having my digital rights, I will put them on my list of never buy from again companies. I want to watch my DVDs without using the plastic disc, I should be able to. If I want to play my CD music collection on an MP3 player, I should be able to. If I want to play my game without inserting this disc, or being connected to the internet, that should fully be my right to do so. Every one of these these abilities is stolen from every user out there through use of DRM, and as the author states, it hurts the legitimate customer far more than the pirate. The fact becomes that the pirated version is greater than the original version.

Another point. If it takes me 5 minutes to copy a CD to my computer for use anywhere I want it, why would I waste the time posting it to a P2P group? If on the other hand, I spent 8 hours ripping the music, getting headaches trying to circumvent the DRM, why would I not want the credit by posting it to the P2P site. I would be a freaking hero to others trying to do the same, save them headaches, time and we all know time is money. My time is worth a hell of a lot more than the $15 price of a CD, a $50 game or a $200 peice of software. The hell if I am going to waste it trying to bypass DRM and I certainly am not going to suffer through the DRM.

 

[bounty]

[citation][nom]joebob2000[/nom]Is it the pricing, or the DRM? Or the lack of quality? Or excuse XYZ? It is also perfectly logical that piracy scales with ease:citation]

You are correct about piracy scales with ease. The problem with your arguemnt is that DRM doesn't change how easy it is for pirates. Tuan already mentioned that and he is perfectly correct. So once again, the only people you hurt are the customers. IT DOES NOT HELP ARTISTS or the PUBLISHERS. So why do it? Tuan literally cannot watch/buy (help artists and publisers) the media he wants because of it. The media companies are hearding him towards pirating.

 

[bounty]

EDIT BUTTON ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG