News Wi-Fi jamming to knock out cameras suspected in nine Minnesota burglaries -- smart security systems vulnerable as tech becomes cheaper and easier t...

[bit_user]

Which is why you disguise yourself so they can't see your face. A good ski mask will do that just fine.

There's what I said about cameras being a good early-warning system. In this day and age, most burglars are smart enough to cover up, so the main benefit of security cameras is just to inform you of the breakin.

However, what @USAFRet said about jamming wifi at a distance applies to this issue. If your cameras can get knocked out, before a burglar is even in view, then you get no warning. Okay, maybe you get a warning that your camera lost connectivity to the cloud, but then some people lose their internet connection with enough regularity that such a warning cannot be treated as equivalent to a break-in notification.

The ultimate test is: would you call the police, just because your cameras went offline? My wifi router is starting to act up and needs a reboot, every couple months. If I called the cops when my wifi went down, I'm sure there would have been some uncomfortable conversations with the cops, by now.

 

[just_the_facts]

If I disable your power hardwired is no good either ! The best security you can have is my dog and lots of guns !

 

[USAFRet]

If I disable your power hardwired is no good either !

Too much work.

They'd just go to the neighbors house.

Nothing is foolproof.

 

[bit_user]

If I disable your power hardwired is no good either !

If you put your video recording system and your PoE switch on a UPS, then it and your cameras can continue operating for a while after power loss.

 

[nameless0ne]

Cameras and even the simplest alarm systems are mainly meant to work as a deterrent. Those should put the thief on notice that they are spotted. Even old school GSM alarms had jammer detection. The idea being that those should be able to shoot out a last distress call when being jammed. This is hard to implement with WiFi since there could be a lot of false positives.
Cables cost pennies compared to installation costs. If possible one should choose a security system that has a wired base that can detect when it looses connection to the cameras. Standalone cameras are the easiest to implement but also most susceptible to these attacks.

 

[Makaveli]

Shocking!!! WIFI is not a reliable network for critical use. Shocking!!!

lol yup I hardwire as much as I can on my network and only leave wifi for phones and laptops.

However, the general public thinks wifi = internet so you are looking at a lot of potential victims the criminals have it easy with so many computer illiterate targets.

 

[RandomWan]

If you must use wireless cameras for security, they need to support some sort of onboard recording/storage in addition to network storage, that storage needs to be somewhat secured (tools at minimum to remove it), and the power needs to be secured from easy tampering. Most cheaper cameras aren't going to fit this bill unless you can mount them somewhere that is difficult to reach without assistance.

 

[Tom Sunday]

That said, thieves usually seem to cover up, these days, so I guess the main benefit of cameras is just that initial alert of a break-in.

Very much to the point and good comment! I have as my primary a 4K ‘Dual Lens’ 180° viewing angle PoE camera mounted high onto my roof gable of my permanent home and then several more vandal proof DOME versions below covering strategic areas of travel. Going fully wired has always been in my judgment the way to go. My matching NVR with 6TB of available storage I located in my secured trapdoor attic, out of sight, more difficult to access and much easier to wire. Admittedly home B&E’s can realistically not be prevented, I as such installed my surveillance system strictly as a deterrence measure and my home not being seen as a low-hanging fruit to pick.

 

[ztemplarz]

Well, that is almost certainly a felony. FCC. Can't jam any frequency. And, yes, that is jamming, what is being described. It is not spot jamming, where you jam a specific frequency, but barrage jamming, where you are putting out all frequencies in a broad range. That is even worse. If they get caught, big trouble, well beyond the robbery and burglary.

https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement

 

[pbcrunch]

In my experience of:

• having a car stolen from my driveway
• having the catalytic convertor stolen from my car in front of my house
• having my car broken into a couple of times

it does not matter if you have PoE cameras, wifi cameras, or no cameras at all. The police don't bother to investigate property crimes anyway.

I have multiple 1080p and 4K PoE cameras outside my house. Every time I have offered footage to the police. They don't come out to collect the footage. They might accept it over a Dropbox URL or something. Or they just don't even care to receive it.

 

[bit_user]

If you must use wireless cameras for security, they need to support some sort of onboard recording/storage in addition to network storage, that storage needs to be somewhat secured (tools at minimum to remove it), and the power needs to be secured from easy tampering. Most cheaper cameras aren't going to fit this bill unless you can mount them somewhere that is difficult to reach without assistance.

It's common for cameras to be mounted in vandal-resistant domes. If properly installed, these won't expose any wiring, either.

 

[bit_user]

My matching NVR with 6TB of available storage I located in my secured trapdoor attic, out of sight, more difficult to access and much easier to wire.

The only downsides to that I'd worry about are heat and dust. However, if it has good cooling and you can manage the dust, maybe it's fine.

On a related note, I have heard of businesses placing smaller recorders in their drop ceilings, but be warned that if the ceiling is used as an air-return, I think any equipment mounted there is supposed to be plenum-rated (which most NVRs won't be).

 

[bit_user]

The police don't bother to investigate property crimes anyway.

I have multiple 1080p and 4K PoE cameras outside my house. Every time I have offered footage to the police. They don't come out to collect the footage.

I'm sure it depends a lot on the location, how well-staffed or overworked they are, and how many more serious crimes they're having to deal with.

As for your footage, if it's just going to show poorly-lit figures committing the crime, with no clearly-identifiable details, I can understand why they wouldn't care. This is probably true of most footage people have, which would explain their low interest level.

If you want to make a difference, try to capture footage that's actionable. That means making sure you'll get good face shots, if any faces happen to be visible, and capturing the license plates + make & model of any vehicles they use in these crimes. In order to achieve this, you'll want cameras with excellent light sensitivity and WDR. Think a lot about camera placement and focusing them on where the likely subject will be, as well. When offering footage, make sure to tell them what's visible in it, so they can make a better decision about whether it's worth their while.

I wish you safety and good luck!

 

[pbcrunch]

I'm sure it depends a lot on the location, how well-staffed or overworked they are, and how many more serious crimes they're having to deal with.

As for your footage, if it's just going to show poorly-lit figures committing the crime, with no clearly-identifiable details, I can understand why they wouldn't care. This is probably true of most footage people have, which would explain their low interest level.

If you want to make a difference, try to capture footage that's actionable. That means making sure you'll get good face shots, if any faces happen to be visible, and capturing the license plates + make & model of any vehicles they use in these crimes. In order to achieve this, you'll want cameras with excellent light sensitivity and WDR. Think a lot about camera placement and focusing them on where the likely subject will be, as well. When offering footage, make sure to tell them what's visible in it, so they can make a better decision about whether it's worth their while.

I wish you safety and good luck!

IP cameras have a tough time getting really good footage at night. I don't have the stats, but I imagine most property crime happens after dark. I've been able to capture vehicle make and model in a couple of incidents, but the reflective nature of license plates means plate numbers are basically impossible to read. Even then, you're counting on thieves to keep legitimate license plates on vehicles that they actually own.

When my Jeep was stolen it was by thieves who targeted XJ Jeep Cherokees because of the lack of factory anti-theft protection. They were driving another stolen Jeep and ended up taking parts from my Jeep to put on yet another stolen Cherokee.

The main point I'm trying to make is that residential security cameras are basically "security theatrics". If the cameras are visible the best you can hope for is that the criminals will go after your neighbor's house instead of yours. Dogs can accomplish the same goals.

 

[bit_user]

IP cameras have a tough time getting really good footage at night. I don't have the stats, but I imagine most property crime happens after dark.

I haven't followed the latest developments, but try searching for "starlight" cameras and you'll find some of the higher-sensitivity models out there. If that's not enough, you'll have to consider using active illumination, either via IR or perhaps you can throw off enough light through "architectural lighting" (i.e. light bouncing off a building). IR illuminators have a red glow that's visible at night, for better or for worse.

I've been able to capture vehicle make and model in a couple of incidents, but the reflective nature of license plates means plate numbers are basically impossible to read.

Here's where a camera with excellent WDR (Wide Dynamic Range) might make a real difference.

Even then, you're counting on thieves to keep legitimate license plates on vehicles that they actually own.

True. If you don't catch them in the act, then the license plate numbers could be useless. However, I'm sure it sometimes happens that they use the car of someone they know and just try to keep it far enough from the crime. If it happens to drive by and you capture its plates, then you've got them.

The main point I'm trying to make is that residential security cameras are basically "security theatrics". If the cameras are visible the best you can hope for is that the criminals will go after your neighbor's house instead of yours.

There's undeniable value in alerting you of the incident, which the mentioned wi fi attack could prevent. However, there's also potential value in collecting evidence, but you've got to be very particular about your camera selection & placement to maximize the chances of this.

I think the ultimate solution needs to be some form of city-wide surveillance network, with automatic, multi-camera object tracking. It's not as far-fetched as it might sound.

 

[HaninTH]

I think this would have limited affect on systems that send directly from the camera. ie: Ring/Nest send their activity directly out and store activity/events until the network is restored. I guess, at least you'd have evidence to present to LEOs after the fact if you use this type of WiFi IP Camera.

Also, i use Ubiquiti wired IP cameras and their IR/Night Vision is amazing. I live in a major metro area, and so IR/Light bleed is enough to illuminate the night so it simply looks like it's in B&W. You can fully see as if it were day, just in Black & White.

 

[AoR]

Time to go back to spread spectrum RF technology coupled with digital encryption although not great for super bandwidth but maybe for IoT which demand more secure layers. However getting industry on board to agree on a standard is like moving a mountain

 

[RandomWan]

It's common for cameras to be mounted in vandal-resistant domes. If properly installed, these won't expose any wiring, either.

They are in a professional space, but often not so in consumer space. Many of the cheaper bullet/ptz have the connections exposed and often the onboard card slot readily accessible without tools (I've installed and serviced a large number of camera systems). The dome and turret style are usually my preference since you have to dismount the entire camera to open up the housing, so you only need to secure the cable inside some sort of shielding.

 

[USAFRet]

CSB:

I bought a pair of Reolink RLC-423
Installed one on the rear of the house on a Saturday.

The very next day, I go out on the back porch. I had a workbench and other junk out there.
On the workbench, partially tucked under some stuff, was an iPhone.

WTF??

I know its not mine, because we have Samsungs.

Try to power it up...dead battery.
Well, whatever, I'm not going to mess with it.

Let's review the video from this brand new camera, and see what we can see.

06:28 Sunday morn, a woman walks up to the porch, glances around, and tucks the phone under the stuff on the bench!
Looks around furtively, and scurries off.
Mid-30s, hair tinted blue, dressed in blah blah. Crystal clear image of her face.

Looking at the recording from a different, older and crappier system, I see her leave the backyard, off in a different direction.

I put the video on a flash drive, printed out pics of the incident, put it all in a ziplock. Monday morning, took it all down to the police station Lost and Found.
Cops wanted nothing to do with the video.

Fast forward to Saturday afternoon.
Dingdong, at the front door.
Officer Friendly...
"Did you by any chance find a cell phone?"
'Yes! I turned it into the main st station last Monday.'
And off to the side is the blue haired girl and her boyfriend.

Turns out she was having a "life episode", and was divesting herself of all worldly goods (or some such crap).

She apparently couldn't really remember exactly where she left it, just generalities of the yard. "Some yard with a pool."
She was sooooo thankful that she was able to gt it back.

/end CSB

So...they're not just for foiling robberies, but also capturing bits of weirdness.
My neighbors have asked me more than once..."Did your cameras see anything on Friday?"

 

[bit_user]

@USAFRet , I think you just won the thread!

 

[bit_user]

Try to power it up...dead battery.
Well, whatever, I'm not going to mess with it.

If I found a phone, I'd turn it on (charging, if necessary) so I could pick up when it gets called and ask the caller whose phone it is. Granted, it's a more risky approach than just leaving it with the Police, but has a better chance of reuniting the phone with its owner.

That said, your story sounds so suspicious that I probably would've suspected it was some kind of attempt at a hack or fraud. So, in that case, perhaps I'd have done the same as you. That's actually where I thought your story was going to lead, as I started reading it.

I once worked with a guy who found a Blackberry phone (back in the pre-iPhone era), while out walking, and just left it on his desk. He made zero effort to return it. I don't even know why he picked it up. By the time I noticed it, it had apparently already been a couple months, so I didn't attempt to intervene.

 

[USAFRet]

If I found a phone, I'd turn it on (charging, if necessary) so I could pick up when it gets called and ask the caller whose phone it is. Granted, it's a more risky approach than just leaving it with the Police, but has a better chance of reuniting the phone with its owner.

That said, your story sounds so suspicious that I probably would've suspected it was some kind of attempt at a hack or fraud. So, in that case, perhaps I'd have done the same as you. That's actually where I thought your story was going to lead, as I started reading it.

I once worked with a guy who found a Blackberry phone (back in the pre-iPhone era), while out walking, and just left it on his desk. He made zero effort to return it. I don't even know why he picked it up. By the time I noticed it, it had apparently already been a couple months, so I didn't attempt to intervene.

Nov 15, 2020.
The phone being stashed

I wanted nothing to do with it.
Give it to the po-po, let them figure it out.

 

[bit_user]

I wanted nothing to do with it.
Give it to the po-po, let them figure it out.

Totally fair and, like I said, the safest option.

However, clearly that didn't work. Even though she (eventually) went to the police, the route to reuniting her with the phone still went through you!

 

[USAFRet]

Totally fair and, like I said, the safest option.

However, clearly that didn't work. Even though she (eventually) went to the police, the route to reuniting her with the phone still went through you!

Right.
The police did no investigation to discover the owner.
Wait for the owner to come to them.

But I think she was just relieved that I was not some unscrupulous person, that might have said..."What phone? I saw nothing." (and just kept it)

There was a lot of "Thank you!" and "God bless you!!"

 

[bit_user]

Right.
The police did no investigation to discover the owner.
Wait for the owner to come to them.

Not only that, they apparently didn't even notice they already had it in their possession, right? Otherwise, why'd they go to you?