Will the 6100 bottleneck?
- Thread starter damnson
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photonboy
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- Jun 20, 2006
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It completely depends on the game.
In some games you will lose at least 20% of the performance. Considering the total build cost, I strongly suggest getting an i5-6500 or i5-6600K depending on budget, as well as suitable cooler (don't use stock even if only to reduce NOISE).
A CM Hyper 212 EVO, or Cryorig H7 are suitable, low-budget coolers. Should handle a light overclock of the i5-6600K.
I'll find some CPU bottleneck examples after I post this.
Other:
Hyperthreading, roughly speaking, can add an extra thread and up to 40% more performance, whereas an i5 desktop CPU is 2X the cores (no hyperthreading) since it has 2x the core count.
Hyperthreading allows another thread of code to run on the SAME core whilst that core is currently waiting for more data from the system memory. So, again it's not the same as an i5.
In some games you will lose at least 20% of the performance. Considering the total build cost, I strongly suggest getting an i5-6500 or i5-6600K depending on budget, as well as suitable cooler (don't use stock even if only to reduce NOISE).
A CM Hyper 212 EVO, or Cryorig H7 are suitable, low-budget coolers. Should handle a light overclock of the i5-6600K.
I'll find some CPU bottleneck examples after I post this.
Other:
Hyperthreading, roughly speaking, can add an extra thread and up to 40% more performance, whereas an i5 desktop CPU is 2X the cores (no hyperthreading) since it has 2x the core count.
Hyperthreading allows another thread of code to run on the SAME core whilst that core is currently waiting for more data from the system memory. So, again it's not the same as an i5.
Ok i understand, My full build is:
GeForce GTX 1070 Gigabyte
Gigabyte z170I mITX
Fractal define Nano S
Cryorig H5 ultimate
EVGA 650w GQ
Seagate barracuda 1tb
Kingston v120 ssd
Hyper x 8 gb ram sticks
Should i spend an extra hundred dollar on a 6500? And swap the motherboard with a H110I or b150?
photonboy
Titan
- Jun 20, 2006
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1) Example with GTX980 (these show the advantage due to higher FREQUENCY and not the number of cores/threads):
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/71760-intel-skylake-i5-6500-i5-6400-i3-6100-review-10.html
The better the GPU, the more likely a CPU bottleneck is.
*Please note the i5-6500 doesn't do much better here, but the quad-core i7-6700K does. Aside from hyperthreading however, the frequency is also different (4.2GHz max turbo vs 3.6GHz).
If we assume a 200MHz drop under heavy load (4.0 vs 3.4) then the i7 is running just over 23% faster.
So it's really the higher frequency that explains the over 15% performance difference here (i7 vs i5), thus the i5-6600K in this game will perform the same as the i7-6700K.
2) Fallout 4:
It's an older engine, not well optimized but it's also a game people play. (I could find well optimized games that also need a lot of CPU power such as many multiplayer games, DOOM etc).
http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2182-fallout-4-cpu-benchmark-huge-performance-difference
*Go to the 1440p list, and then use the slightly slower i3-4130. As you can see there is a HUGE difference vs the fastest CPU. I'm guessing you might gain 10% FPS with the i3-6100 so compared to the i5-6600K it's
58FPS vs 71FPS
3) I have observed the i5-6600K @4.4GHz hit about 90% usage in Battlefield 4 at times.
That means that the same FPS is likely about 67% if using the i3-6100 in the exact same scenario for that period of time.
Summary:
Showing CPU bottleneck links and explaining them is difficult, but hopefully I've given a rough idea of how bad they can get.
So YES, the i3-6100 is a great CPU that runs many games similarly to the i5-6500 to i5-6600K. Unfortunately at times it can be a fairly large bottleneck.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/71760-intel-skylake-i5-6500-i5-6400-i3-6100-review-10.html
The better the GPU, the more likely a CPU bottleneck is.
*Please note the i5-6500 doesn't do much better here, but the quad-core i7-6700K does. Aside from hyperthreading however, the frequency is also different (4.2GHz max turbo vs 3.6GHz).
If we assume a 200MHz drop under heavy load (4.0 vs 3.4) then the i7 is running just over 23% faster.
So it's really the higher frequency that explains the over 15% performance difference here (i7 vs i5), thus the i5-6600K in this game will perform the same as the i7-6700K.
2) Fallout 4:
It's an older engine, not well optimized but it's also a game people play. (I could find well optimized games that also need a lot of CPU power such as many multiplayer games, DOOM etc).
http://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2182-fallout-4-cpu-benchmark-huge-performance-difference
*Go to the 1440p list, and then use the slightly slower i3-4130. As you can see there is a HUGE difference vs the fastest CPU. I'm guessing you might gain 10% FPS with the i3-6100 so compared to the i5-6600K it's
58FPS vs 71FPS
3) I have observed the i5-6600K @4.4GHz hit about 90% usage in Battlefield 4 at times.
That means that the same FPS is likely about 67% if using the i3-6100 in the exact same scenario for that period of time.
Summary:
Showing CPU bottleneck links and explaining them is difficult, but hopefully I've given a rough idea of how bad they can get.
So YES, the i3-6100 is a great CPU that runs many games similarly to the i5-6500 to i5-6600K. Unfortunately at times it can be a fairly large bottleneck.
photonboy
Titan
- Jun 20, 2006
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I'll make a BUILD at pcpartpicker and post below.
*Please note the GTX1070 may be overpriced or unavailable. I'll see once I try to build. It may end up making sense to build and use the iGPU for a few weeks until SUPPLY (and prices) stabilize for the GTX1070.
I'll see what motherboard you chose, however I would not skimp on that. I'll post and comment.
*Please note the GTX1070 may be overpriced or unavailable. I'll see once I try to build. It may end up making sense to build and use the iGPU for a few weeks until SUPPLY (and prices) stabilize for the GTX1070.
I'll see what motherboard you chose, however I would not skimp on that. I'll post and comment.
photonboy
Titan
- Jun 20, 2006
- 21,567
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$1300USD build (including Windows 10 Home 64-bit): http://pcpartpicker.com/list/8YrY9W
I'm guessing that adds at least $200USD to the price, however based on the graphics card you wanted, that's the build I made to ensure good QUALITY parts. You can then ADJUST as you see fit. Now I comment which may HELP a bit with those choices:
1) Motherboard:
- IMO it's the most important part. Considering the limited choices for mini-ITX, I can't recommend another board. Great quality, good sound
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2015/10/12/asus-z170i-pro-gaming-review/8
"offering better audio quality than Asus's own popular Xonar DXG 5.1 - just, while being a vast improvement compared to the Realtek ALC898-based P8Z77i-Deluxe, which offered noise and dynamic range levels of -93 and 92.7 dBA respectively..."
2) CPU:
The i5-6500 is only slightly cheaper, but the i5-6600K can be about 20% faster with a light overclock which is significant for some games with this video card.
2) SSD
- 250GB doesn't cost much more
- cheaper SSD's exist, but they are generally not as good a quality. Your OS, programs etc are stored on this so it's up to you to decide if the price is worth it.
- a few GAMES benefit significantly from the faster load times. SKYRIM for example because loads are quite frequent (building, dungeon, map points..), so there's at least 100GB space you can probably use just for games that need it, though I suggest being picky what goes here.
- Samsung Magician is a great program for Samsung SSD's. I won't bother to explain it here, but you can Google it if you wish (other SSD's have software too, so whatever you get investigate FIRMWARE updates and what software exists)
(Windows and other programs will eat up space over time. Without games you might not go above 60GB, but don't max out the space early..)
3) HDD:
2TB vs 1TB didn't add much to the cost. I suggest making a backup IMAGE of your OS occasionally which can eat up some space. Start installing games as well and the 1TB may not be good enough.
Performance also drops to 50% on the inner platter, so even if you only used 1TB of the 2TB drive, much of the data will be faster.
4) GTX1070.
- avoid single-fan cards since you have enough space for 2-fan (quieter, better cooling)
- don't overpay, but ensure the quality is there
- I chose the Asus Strix
- you probably want LED lighting of some sort though you can disable if annoying (this has RGB so any color you want)
5) Case:
I just chose yours, however:
a) make sure you won't be annoyed by a side window and the light it can cast (not all LEDs can be turned off, though you could put tape over the motherboard ones)
b) it has no DVD drive slot
6) PSU:
I chose a reasonably good PSU, though you can obviously get cheaper. It's another part I believe investing a little extra in compared to cheaper models. Lots of articles to explain why.
I recommend modular or semi-modular to avoid cable clutter.
Summary:
You can obviously build CHEAPER, so again I made a higher quality build, with slightly faster or higher capacity components.
You can now MODIFY it based on your budget. It's too hard for me to make those decisions for you since there isn't much I'm comfortable changing.
I'm guessing that adds at least $200USD to the price, however based on the graphics card you wanted, that's the build I made to ensure good QUALITY parts. You can then ADJUST as you see fit. Now I comment which may HELP a bit with those choices:
1) Motherboard:
- IMO it's the most important part. Considering the limited choices for mini-ITX, I can't recommend another board. Great quality, good sound
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2015/10/12/asus-z170i-pro-gaming-review/8
"offering better audio quality than Asus's own popular Xonar DXG 5.1 - just, while being a vast improvement compared to the Realtek ALC898-based P8Z77i-Deluxe, which offered noise and dynamic range levels of -93 and 92.7 dBA respectively..."
2) CPU:
The i5-6500 is only slightly cheaper, but the i5-6600K can be about 20% faster with a light overclock which is significant for some games with this video card.
2) SSD
- 250GB doesn't cost much more
- cheaper SSD's exist, but they are generally not as good a quality. Your OS, programs etc are stored on this so it's up to you to decide if the price is worth it.
- a few GAMES benefit significantly from the faster load times. SKYRIM for example because loads are quite frequent (building, dungeon, map points..), so there's at least 100GB space you can probably use just for games that need it, though I suggest being picky what goes here.
- Samsung Magician is a great program for Samsung SSD's. I won't bother to explain it here, but you can Google it if you wish (other SSD's have software too, so whatever you get investigate FIRMWARE updates and what software exists)
(Windows and other programs will eat up space over time. Without games you might not go above 60GB, but don't max out the space early..)
3) HDD:
2TB vs 1TB didn't add much to the cost. I suggest making a backup IMAGE of your OS occasionally which can eat up some space. Start installing games as well and the 1TB may not be good enough.
Performance also drops to 50% on the inner platter, so even if you only used 1TB of the 2TB drive, much of the data will be faster.
4) GTX1070.
- avoid single-fan cards since you have enough space for 2-fan (quieter, better cooling)
- don't overpay, but ensure the quality is there
- I chose the Asus Strix
- you probably want LED lighting of some sort though you can disable if annoying (this has RGB so any color you want)
5) Case:
I just chose yours, however:
a) make sure you won't be annoyed by a side window and the light it can cast (not all LEDs can be turned off, though you could put tape over the motherboard ones)
b) it has no DVD drive slot
6) PSU:
I chose a reasonably good PSU, though you can obviously get cheaper. It's another part I believe investing a little extra in compared to cheaper models. Lots of articles to explain why.
I recommend modular or semi-modular to avoid cable clutter.
Summary:
You can obviously build CHEAPER, so again I made a higher quality build, with slightly faster or higher capacity components.
You can now MODIFY it based on your budget. It's too hard for me to make those decisions for you since there isn't much I'm comfortable changing.
Unfortunately its too expensive for me, I think im going to go with a h110i and a 6500, im gonna drop the ssd since i have one laying around! The 1070 im going for is the g1 gaming since in my country its signifigantly cheaper! Thank you very much for you help tho!
- Jan 1, 2013
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Would you not consider moving to a matx build with a i5 6500 , a 240gb ssd (120gb really is too small in my experience ), & a good quality h110,b150,h170 matx board.
You will get so much more value for money this way.
While I understand the attraction of tiny mitx cases the price premiums for smaller but still compatible parts are huge .
There are some very very good matx cube cases about with still very small footprints that are just plain better suited to fairly high end components.
You will get so much more value for money this way.
While I understand the attraction of tiny mitx cases the price premiums for smaller but still compatible parts are huge .
There are some very very good matx cube cases about with still very small footprints that are just plain better suited to fairly high end components.
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