Will there be a 'new' manufacturers race; to 'Fusion'?

[jimmysmitty]

There is a color scale difference, the video on the left is of lesser quality as well.

Word, Playa.

Not to mention that the AMD system has Vista Aero disabled and no side bar unlike the Intel system. He never mentions it t all which really annoys me about it.

He said "Encouraging people to try and share the truth that Intels HD video decode is not active". I wounder if he is also encouraging people to not use the same settings for tests. Straight up lie.

I don't like that the do not list the specs of each system. It says its the 3200 mobile for the AMD system but in the background a guy is stating it has a discrete GPU which would mean the 3450 mobile with 256MB of its own GRAM. It seems like marketing lies to me.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Not to mention that the AMD system has Vista Aero disabled and no side bar unlike the Intel system. He never mentions it t all which really annoys me about it.

He said "Encouraging people to try and share the truth that Intels HD video decode is not active". I wounder if he is also encouraging people to not use the same settings for tests. Straight up lie.

I don't like that the do not list the specs of each system. It says its the 3200 mobile for the AMD system but in the background a guy is stating it has a discrete GPU which would mean the 3450 mobile with 256MB of its own GRAM. It seems like marketing lies to me.

Of course, they're lying. They can't even post winning scores for Web Serving. Oh wait, they did. I hope that the test was even. But that doesn't change the fact that you're arguing a moot point. Everybody and their IT guy knows Intel's graphics suck. Even if the settings were different, that would mean that Intel definitely can't run with Aero and a SideBar (can you say class action?). Maybe that was the point.

Even if it was using a 3450, that's what a 3200 is, so it's the same thing. You can't divide an HD stream across two GPUs as far as I know. And as far as color scale differences, I didn't know you could turn the color down on a DVD or BluRay. It's 1080p\10bit color, period.

I posted two more video links but I guess there's something wrong with those too. They were done at CeBit.

 

[jimmysmitty]

^Dude it was the Intel system running Areo and the sidebar. The AMD system had the Aero and sidebar off. Now it makes a bit of difference because thats less memory and CPU cycles that the AMD system has to give away to unneeded programs. So right off that was not a equaly fair test setup.

There could be more but without knowing the specs of each system and only knowing the model (since each model offers multiple choices on each hardware set) they could have the lowest end Intel system and highest end AMD system.

No 1080p is not always 10bit if the display does not have the part for it hence why you see some HDTVs that advertise 10bit. It could be possible that they had a worse display or something but you can clearly see there was discoloration on the AMD system.

What moot point am I arguing? That they purposly left more services and advanced features that use up more memory, CPU cycles and tax the graphics to make it look worse? And they turned it all off on the AMD machine to make theirs look better?

Seriously BM you cannot deny there was so BS in that video. You can cleary see that they are trying to make the Intel system look bad on purpose running them at unequal settings and so forth.

Now unless you have the specs and can prove me wrong that the Aero was not turned off on the AMD machine (although I have Vista and when the task bar is solid its normally off) don't deny that that was put there to make their system look better.

 

[yomamafor1]

Even if the settings were different, that would mean that Intel definitely can't run with Aero and a SideBar (can you say class action?). Maybe that was the point.

By that same token, maybe all those Phenom users troubled by the AM2-> AM2+ upgrade should also file a class action suit against AMD for not deliver.

 

[amdfangirl]

Well if it means money/store credit or etc. I'm willing to see them bleed for my 690G.

 

[BaronMatrix]

^Dude it was the Intel system running Areo and the sidebar. The AMD system had the Aero and sidebar off. Now it makes a bit of difference because thats less memory and CPU cycles that the AMD system has to give away to unneeded programs. So right off that was not a equaly fair test setup.

There could be more but without knowing the specs of each system and only knowing the model (since each model offers multiple choices on each hardware set) they could have the lowest end Intel system and highest end AMD system.

No 1080p is not always 10bit if the display does not have the part for it hence why you see some HDTVs that advertise 10bit. It could be possible that they had a worse display or something but you can clearly see there was discoloration on the AMD system.

What moot point am I arguing? That they purposly left more services and advanced features that use up more memory, CPU cycles and tax the graphics to make it look worse? And they turned it all off on the AMD machine to make theirs look better?

Seriously BM you cannot deny there was so BS in that video. You can cleary see that they are trying to make the Intel system look bad on purpose running them at unequal settings and so forth.

Now unless you have the specs and can prove me wrong that the Aero was not turned off on the AMD machine (although I have Vista and when the task bar is solid its normally off) don't deny that that was put there to make their system look better.

Well, let's look at it from the CPU power side. The highest retail Ultra in the HP D5v (see the shopping.hp.com site) is ZM80 which is 2.1GHz. A 2.1GHz Penryn has a 400MHz advantage, so we can tack on (400MHz\2100MHz * 100)% to the Turion score to equalize. I don't have numbers for SIdebar though I would assume that the CPU% widget would use maybe 2% CPU as it's just a display of what the OS already records.

I also don't know what amount of GPU potential is taken from UVD for DX9. I hate that the Player window was not transparent on either system so how Aero is running is unknown. The point is that AMD is attacking Intel's still-lacking so-called DX10/HD IGP while at the same time, saying that the 3% Sidebar usage is inconsequential as would the GPU RAM used for Aero.

It's actually my fault because I can't say that was an AMD-sanctioned video. I can't think of what I should apologize for but you know me. No regrets. The other videos I linked to were done by AMD personnel.

 

[spud]

Well, let's look at it from the CPU power side. The highest retail Ultra in the HP D5v (see the shopping.hp.com site) is ZM80 which is 2.1GHz. A 2.1GHz Penryn has a 400MHz advantage, so we can tack on (400MHz\2100MHz * 100)% to the Turion score to equalize. I don't have numbers for SIdebar though I would assume that the CPU% widget would use maybe 2% CPU as it's just a display of what the OS already records.

I also don't know what amount of GPU potential is taken from UVD for DX9. I hate that the Player window was not transparent on either system so how Aero is running is unknown. The point is that AMD is attacking Intel's still-lacking so-called DX10/HD IGP while at the same time, saying that the 3% Sidebar usage is inconsequential as would the GPU RAM used for Aero.

It's actually my fault because I can't say that was an AMD-sanctioned video. I can't think of what I should apologize for but you know me. No regrets. The other videos I linked to were done by AMD personnel.

Aero is substancial on lower end hardware regardless of the memory foot print.

What would be more important at this point is the actual physical memory foot print that the OS and app are useing and what is remaining, if one machine has 1 gig and the other 2-4 there will be a large difference in the actual performance needed to stream that video segment regardless if the one on the left is clearly of a lesser quality.

But this is your Baron this is your "evidence" it won't take long before the community sees this.

Word, Playa.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Well, let's look at it from the CPU power side. The highest retail Ultra in the HP D5v (see the shopping.hp.com site) is ZM80 which is 2.1GHz. A 2.1GHz Penryn has a 400MHz advantage, so we can tack on (400MHz\2100MHz * 100)% to the Turion score to equalize. I don't have numbers for SIdebar though I would assume that the CPU% widget would use maybe 2% CPU as it's just a display of what the OS already records.

I also don't know what amount of GPU potential is taken from UVD for DX9. I hate that the Player window was not transparent on either system so how Aero is running is unknown. The point is that AMD is attacking Intel's still-lacking so-called DX10/HD IGP while at the same time, saying that the 3% Sidebar usage is inconsequential as would the GPU RAM used for Aero.

It's actually my fault because I can't say that was an AMD-sanctioned video. I can't think of what I should apologize for but you know me. No regrets. The other videos I linked to were done by AMD personnel.

Considering there are no specs we cannot say what CPU it was. As for the Aero, the program itself I believe is Power DVD, not to sure since I use Windows Media Center (its much easier and nicer than anything else). But if you look at the task manager you can see it has the Aero effect around it as well as the start menu is slightly transparent thus it has the Aero effect. The AMD machines task manager does not have the clear Aero effect around it and the task bar is solid.

That was a AMD sanctioned video at a booth setup to show off the mobile 780G series. But the fact that they didn't at least make them both run with/without Aero and the side bar already shows it was all biased.

Aero is substancial on lower end hardware regardless of the memory foot print.

What would be more important at this point is the actual physical memory foot print that the OS and app are useing and what is remaining, if one machine has 1 gig and the other 2-4 there will be a large difference in the actual performance needed to stream that video segment regardless if the one on the left is clearly of a lesser quality.

But this is your Baron this is your "evidence" it won't take long before the community sees this.

Word, Playa.

100% agreed. Without the full specs being not only listed but shown as well its hard to tell. I like how they only were showing the CPU usage and had the memory blocked out. This is because that part shows how much memory that the system has and if they did cripple the Intel system with less RAM people would not believe them.

Don't worry spud. We already see through Baron. It wont take long I hope for others, even the AMD fans, to see through his "evidence"

 

[BaronMatrix]

Aero is substancial on lower end hardware regardless of the memory foot print.

What would be more important at this point is the actual physical memory foot print that the OS and app are useing and what is remaining, if one machine has 1 gig and the other 2-4 there will be a large difference in the actual performance needed to stream that video segment regardless if the one on the left is clearly of a lesser quality.

But this is your Baron this is your "evidence" it won't take long before the community sees this.

Word, Playa.

What does all of that mean? How is this "evidence?" It's my opinion of how to look at the fact that the Penryn box can barely play HD content. I just tried to see how to equalize it and even if you add 3% for widget, 10% for Aero and 10% for shnits and giggles, teh AMD box would still only have hit 70% or so (I'd have to look) but the fact remains that X4500 is suposed to accelerate HD

AND IT DOESN'T


Before Intel tries to get Larrabee or IGP Nehalem they should get DX and HD working. But then they don't have to because people like you will volunteer others to get ripped off thinkng that the mighty Penryn can defeat 780G at HD or gaming.

BTW, why would I listen to anyone with some ghetto slang fetish on a tech board?

 

[MarkG]

Why are we discussing "Office Machines" ???

Because that's the kind of market these chips are aimed at.

No-one in their right mind is going to buy a combined CPU/GPU to play new games, and for systems which don't run new games or other high-end 3D applications, the Intel integrated graphics are fine. So arguing that some ATI chip could play Crysis with ten times the frame rate is utterly irrelevant, because few people will be playing it at work.

Even Aero is pretty much irrelevant for office machines, since it's pointless eye candy which can easily be turned off.

 

[spud]

What does all of that mean? How is this "evidence?" It's my opinion of how to look at the fact that the Penryn box can barely play HD content. I just tried to see how to equalize it and even if you add 3% for widget, 10% for Aero and 10% for shnits and giggles, teh AMD box would still only have hit 70% or so (I'd have to look) but the fact remains that X4500 is suposed to accelerate HD

AND IT DOESN'T


Before Intel tries to get Larrabee or IGP Nehalem they should get DX and HD working. But then they don't have to because people like you will volunteer others to get ripped off thinkng that the mighty Penryn can defeat 780G at HD or gaming.

BTW, why would I listen to anyone with some ghetto slang fetish on a tech board?

It's not the overall CPU performance hit that I was concerned with its the available system reasources that are available to the GPU and the memory footprint there in, whether or not it's accelerateing the video playback is moot considering there are many unknowns that can explain further why the performance was aparently lack luster. Can't have a fair test if the hardware there in is not listed.

Secondly I have never bought a entry level video solution and never will as power and thermal issues are on the back burner to overall performance, also I have never stated that I feel Larrabee will be successful or not or I will use it or not. The solution looks good on paper but soo did the FX and 600 series of GPU's.

As for listening to me. Im not concerned with that not even the slightest, the mods that see things in a similar light as I do which in turn has rectified the multiple account issue is something that concerns me, rest assured when you enter that list you will be rectified as well.

Word, Playa.

 

[yomamafor1]

What does all of that mean? How is this "evidence?" It's my opinion of how to look at the fact that the Penryn box can barely play HD content. I just tried to see how to equalize it and even if you add 3% for widget, 10% for Aero and 10% for shnits and giggles, teh AMD box would still only have hit 70% or so (I'd have to look) but the fact remains that X4500 is suposed to accelerate HD

AND IT DOESN'T


Before Intel tries to get Larrabee or IGP Nehalem they should get DX and HD working. But then they don't have to because people like you will volunteer others to get ripped off thinkng that the mighty Penryn can defeat 780G at HD or gaming.

BTW, why would I listen to anyone with some ghetto slang fetish on a tech board?

Keep spreading FUDs... X4500HD does have HD content playback capability. Even the Atom has HD content playback capability.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Keep spreading FUDs... X4500HD does have HD content playback capability. Even the Atom has HD content playback capability.

You're right. It just sucks and can't do it.

 

[BaronMatrix]

As for listening to me. Im not concerned with that not even the slightest, the mods that see things in a similar light as I do which in turn has rectified the multiple account issue is something that concerns me, rest assured when you enter that list you will be rectified as well.


Except that I don't vote and only have one account. Naahmean son? Is you feelin me kid? Wit ya wack self.

 

[dattimr]

Hmmm, like, er... I know you weren't talking to me, Baron, but... Here it goes:

1) Just to be clear: I liked and disliked many of your posts. But I always "listen" to you - just as to anybody else -, nonetheless. Never rated down anybody, no matter how stupid I thought one's comments were.

2) I also acknowledge you are arguably an old legend of this forum.

3) Why would you listen to him? Well, perhaps simply because anyone (well, kind of...) usually "listens" to you? Isn't this the purpose of a forum?

Honestly, how can you expect to be taken seriously and to be considered unbiased towards AMD with a Phenom logo under your nickname? Doesn't that imply your vision will usually be favorable to AMD's products or is it just a result of AMD's strong products as of late? /sarcasm

(PS: [mindreading] Yeah, I would be saying the same if it were an "Intel Inside" logo. BTW, my signature is just for fun. Could that also be what's your picture for?[/mindreading])

 

[BaronMatrix]

Hmmm, like, er... I know you weren't talking to me, Baron, but... Here it goes:

1) Just to be clear: I liked and disliked many of your posts. But I always "listen" to you - just as to anybody else -, nonetheless. Never rated down anybody, no matter how stupid I thought one's comments were.

2) I also acknowledge you are arguably an old legend of this forum.

3) Why would you listen to him? Well, perhaps simply because anyone (well, kind of...) usually "listens" to you? Isn't this the purpose of a forum?

Honestly, how can you expect to be taken seriously and to be considered unbiased towards AMD with a Phenom logo under your nickname? Doesn't that imply your vision will usually be favorable to AMD's products or is it just a result of AMD's strong products as of late? /sarcasm

(PS: [mindreading] Yeah, I would be saying the same if it were an "Intel Inside" logo. BTW, my signature is just for fun. Could that also be what's your picture for?[/mindreading])

So, in just a few words, sarcasm escapes you?

What does my avatar have to do with anything? I just think it looks cool. I used to have my picture but that pushed people to the edge of their ability to cope.

 

[BaronMatrix]

BTW, jimmy and yo mama(can you be more offensive?) I could be a real jerk and post the scores recorded by ExtremeTech on the new G45 chipset. In short, IT BLOWS CHUNKS and none of them are pixels. Hey why not.

These PCMark Vantage numbers aren't particularly impressive, either. The overall score, and most of the sub-scores, are lower than the $830 Bang-for-the-Watt PC we recently built using an AMD processor and chipset. That system featured a dual-core Athlon 64 X2 running at a higher clock speed, but one that is actually less expensive. Suffice it to say, we're not exactly floored by the overall performance of this motherboard.


An excerpt of the review. And yet another below.

We keep hearing about how Intel is going to make a really awesome integrated graphics component, and we get our hopes up, and then the part comes out and lets us down. Intel has stated that, by 2010, it will increase integrated graphics performance tenfold (over the GMA 3100 it had on the market when making those claims).


Wow, quite an indictment. And just for you link nuts.


http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2327143,00.asp

They have been stringing people along for years with claims of 50% or more faster and yet they still can't play DX9 games at 1024. I'd post a link to 780G getting 50fps and G35 getting 16fps but I don't care.

 

[dattimr]

So, you use an AMD's product picture because of its cool-factor, post on discussions related to AMD - usually with "cool" things to say about it, even if without links (not to say this is always the case) - and intend to be taken seriously or to be seen as a more credible source of information than a guy who uses a slang under his nickname - and who has perfectly reasonable posts - , just because the guy uses a damn slang under his nickname?

Sorry, but I can't get it. Perhaps sarcasm really escapes me - just as good-sense.

 

[dattimr]

And I agree with you about G45 not looking very good so far and lacking some of its promised features - performance included. I read ExtremeTech's article this morning. I just thought your previous post was kinda agressive towards spud and incoherent after all.

 

[yomamafor1]

You're right. It just sucks and can't do it.

Not according to the demo I saw at Centrino 2's launch event, as well as reports from others. Even EeePC can play high definition content @ 1080p. Keep trying Baron.

 

[BaronMatrix]

So, you use an AMD's product picture because of its cool-factor, post on discussions related to AMD - usually with "cool" things to say about it, even if without links (not to say this is always the case) - and intend to be taken seriously or to be seen as a more credible source of information than a guy who uses a slang under his nickname - and who has perfectly reasonable posts - , just because the guy uses a damn slang under his nickname?

Sorry, but I can't get it. Perhaps sarcasm really escapes me - just as good-sense.

That's right. The guy is wiggity wigity wack. I have posted Intel news and people didn't comment at all.

 

[BaronMatrix]

And I agree with you about G45 not looking very good so far and lacking some of its promised features - performance included. I read ExtremeTech's article this morning. I just thought your previous post was kinda agressive towards spud and incoherent after all.

Incoherent? Wow, someone's been reading the thesaurus. I guess it's a good thing your opinion counts for naught.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Not according to the demo I saw at Centrino 2's launch event, as well as reports from others. Even EeePC can play high definition content @ 1080p. Keep trying Baron.

That's not what every review I see says. For image quality, the G45 got 30 out 100. OUCH. I can see where you want to believe that Intel would never pad anything to make themselves look good even though NO ONE expects any Intel graphics to be more effective than a retarded kid with 32 bit crayons.

Even VC1 took usage up to 70-100% and that's not h.264. Face it. Intel's graphic are substandard even for Via - no wait the S3 chrome is pretty good. Wow, now they're behind Via.

That must suck for you - dare I say it - Intel fanboys. I'd hate me too if I kept reminding me of that fact.

 

[archibael]

30 out of 100 in a non-optimized player. PowerDVD apparently did not have advanced de-interlacing activated, let alone HW accel enabled.

Other players are apparently not as crippled:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054632

Still wouldn't buy it for gaming, but the problems are software. Intel needs to get better about making sure the SW players are all on board on release day.

At any rate, HD HQV is near-useless for analyzing Blu-ray playback quality as 90% of Blu-rays are high-quality progressive scanned images and HD HQVs tests are 20% video denoising (which you shouldn't need on images as pristine as Blu-ray) and 80% deinterlacing (which you shouldn't need on progressive images).

And, yes, I work for Intel. And no, I don't speak for them.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Wow BM. You just keep insulting the people even if they agree with you but think you are being a - dare I say it- jack ass?

BM my whole point is that it is obvious that the Intel system has more apps using more MEMORY and CPU cycles while the AMD system is being setup to LOOK better.

There are no definative specs so we do not know what each system has just that the AMD man in the video is BSing everyone and yet the person recording never asked why the Intel system had Aero running and the sidebar and the AMD system did not.

I agree that Intel IGPs are not good for gaming and anyone who games on any IGP is a idiot to me but if there is proof showing it can play 1080P HD then it can. Now if it can play while gaming is another question.

Either way BM you are being a judging jerk and calling people fanboys yet saying you yourself are not when you have a Phenom logo as your avitar, have been known to spread FUD about Phenom before it came out and are known to post anti-Intel (or Inhell as you like to say). Look in a mirror and stop being a jerk.