Will Verizon soon overtake Cingular as Number One ?

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Joseph,

The dual CDMA / GSM Samsung SCH-a790 was released by Verizon in April this
year. It is GSM 900 / 1800 only, no 850 or 1900.

We've ordered about 2 dozen of them for various clients who report no
problems using them in Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand.

But while the phones are technically capable of working in most any
international GSM market VZW has been relatively slow to sign roaming and
routing agreements with foreign carriers.

Currently the ATTWS/Cingular quad band phones will work in many more
international markets because their agreements are already in place.

And VZW still has no International GSM capable Blackberry solution.

Richard


"Joseph" <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mla2r016h6kg10btdo411bic4essiibg4v@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:46:44 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
> <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com> wrote:
>
> >A google search didn't turn up a dual GSM/CDMA phone but it did verify a
> >chipset that supports both is already available. Has a GSM/CDMA phone
> >ever been made?
> >
> >Verizon could offer a CDMA/GSM phone for customers that need to roam in
> >a GSM only area. Or Cingular offer a GSM/CDMA phone if CDMA became
> >common for roamers. Seems like that would be much simpler than doing it
> >at the carrier level.
>
> There is a combined CDMA/GSM phone that's in the process of being
> deployed in China, but it's for 900/1800 GSM networks not for GSM 1900
> or GSM 850.
>
>
http://www.threegmobile.net/main/index.php?lang=ENG&option=news_detail&nid=404
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>

 

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <298d9cbf.0412041117.154135d9@posting.google.com> on 4 Dec 2004 11:17:34
-0800, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) wrote:

>John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<wPGrd.8969$_3.105996@typhoon.sonic.net>...
>>
>> In <jzwick3-A2FE40.03571502122004@news1.east.earthlink.net> on Thu, 02 Dec 2004 09:57:15 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> It doesn't work that way -- spectrum licenses are a finite resource.
>
>Everything (including finite resources) has a price. VZW has clearly
>demonstrated that licenses are available for the right price
>(Northcoast, NextWave, etc.)

Only if such additional licenses are actually available for sale, which isn't
true in many markets.

>> Your ignorance is showing again: Cingular with ATTWS is ahead of Verizon in
>> both 2.5G (widespread EDGE deployment) and 3G (UMTS deployment).
>
>How do figure that? VZW has sixteen 3G markets live (total POPS 69.3
>M) and Cingular has six 3G markets live (total POPS 22.2 M). How does
>that put Cingular ahead?

Widespread deployment of EDGE, and significant availability of UMTS.

>> Verizon has no control over the plans of regional carriers, many (most?) of
>> which are migrating from TDMA/AMPS to GSM.
>
>I'd like to see some research and data that shows the numbers of
>carriers migrating to CDMA and those migrating to GSM.

Go for it.

>I think you're
>just blowing smoke and have no idea what the real numbes are. You're
>way off.

You're welcome to think whatever you want.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

 

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <298d9cbf.0412041055.2ba205ec@posting.google.com> on 4 Dec 2004 10:55:15
-0800, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) wrote:

>John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<HS6sd.9229$_3.107592@typhoon.sonic.net>...
>>
>> In <1102095020.OXLYFvykUJyQw2JgDXk0Dg@teranews> on Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:30:20
>> GMT, Bean <noway@jose.com> wrote:
>>
>> >While it may seem more logical to go from TDMA to GSM, somebody (who
>> >seemed knowledgeable) in Howard Forums posted that it's actually easier
>> >to overlay TDMA towers with CDMA that it is with GSM.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
>It is indeed easier (cheaper) to overlay an existing TDMA network with
>CDMA rather than GSM. This is because TDMA and CDMA share the same
>core network topology (ANSI-41) whereas GSM uses an entirely
>differrent core network topology (MAP) and therefore requires
>expensive upgrades to the backbone infrastructure.

Nonsense.

>Navas' one-liners (that fail to give any explanation for his
>opinionated statements) are of no help as usual.

That almost all TDMA carriers have migrated and are migrating to GSM rather
than CDMA is ample evidence that GSM is the better migration path.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<GGosd.9465$_3.110974@typhoon.sonic.net>...
>
> In <298d9cbf.0412041117.154135d9@posting.google.com> on 4 Dec 2004 11:17:34 -0800, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) wrote:
>
> >John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<wPGrd.8969$_3.105996@typhoon.sonic.net>...
>
> >> Your ignorance is showing again: Cingular with ATTWS is ahead of Verizon in
> >> both 2.5G (widespread EDGE deployment) and 3G (UMTS deployment).
> >
> >How do figure that? VZW has sixteen 3G markets live (total POPS 69.3
> >M) and Cingular has six 3G markets live (total POPS 22.2 M). How does
> >that put Cingular ahead?
>
> Widespread deployment of EDGE, and significant availability of UMTS.

"Significant availability of UMTS"? UMTS is available in 6 markets to
22.2 M POPS. Compared to 1xEV-DO which is available in 16 markets to
69.3 M POPS I still fail to see how exactly that puts Cingular ahead.
By my math your "significant availability" is less than 1/3 of what
VZW offers, but according to you that puts Cingular ahead, right?

> >> Verizon has no control over the plans of regional carriers, many (most?) of
> >> which are migrating from TDMA/AMPS to GSM.
> >
> >I'd like to see some research and data that shows the numbers of
> >carriers migrating to CDMA and those migrating to GSM.
>
> Go for it.

This is by no means scientific, but a quick count of GSM versus CDMA
carriers on roamer1's site
(http://www.roamer1.org/wireless/digital.html) yields 54 carriers
running or deploying GSM versus 62 running or deploying CDMA. Now I
will admit that this list is not complete, but I have no reason to
believe that it is biased either, so it probably gives a fairly
representative picture of the overall situation. If you feel there
are errors or omissions please e-mail roamer1, I'm sure he'd like to
hear about it.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <298d9cbf.0412042301.249214e6@posting.google.com> on 4 Dec 2004 23:01:17
-0800, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) wrote:

>John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<GGosd.9465$_3.110974@typhoon.sonic.net>...
>>
>> In <298d9cbf.0412041117.154135d9@posting.google.com> on 4 Dec 2004 11:17:34 -0800, xff@austin.rr.com (XFF) wrote:
>>
>> >John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message news:<wPGrd.8969$_3.105996@typhoon.sonic.net>...
>>
>> >> Your ignorance is showing again: Cingular with ATTWS is ahead of Verizon in
>> >> both 2.5G (widespread EDGE deployment) and 3G (UMTS deployment).
>> >
>> >How do figure that? VZW has sixteen 3G markets live (total POPS 69.3
>> >M) and Cingular has six 3G markets live (total POPS 22.2 M). How does
>> >that put Cingular ahead?
>>
>> Widespread deployment of EDGE, and significant availability of UMTS.
>
>"Significant availability of UMTS"? UMTS is available in 6 markets to
>22.2 M POPS. Compared to 1xEV-DO which is available in 16 markets to
>69.3 M POPS

Neither technology has anything like nationwide reach. It's been a see-saw
race that will continue through 2005.

>I still fail to see how exactly that puts Cingular ahead.
>By my math your "significant availability" is less than 1/3 of what
>VZW offers, but according to you that puts Cingular ahead, right?

To be clear, my meaning was and is that Cingular is "ahead" of Verizon with
regard to "both" offerings taken together, not necessarily each offering taken
alone, primarily based on the widespread availability of EDGE, as well as the
much lower cost of unlimited data with Cingular.

>> >> Verizon has no control over the plans of regional carriers, many (most?) of
>> >> which are migrating from TDMA/AMPS to GSM.
>> >
>> >I'd like to see some research and data that shows the numbers of
>> >carriers migrating to CDMA and those migrating to GSM.
>>
>> Go for it.
>
>This is by no means scientific, but a quick count of GSM versus CDMA
>carriers on roamer1's site
>(http://www.roamer1.org/wireless/digital.html) ...

Indeed -- it's meaningless.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

It doesn't matter whether Verizon or Cingular is larger. It is like the
fight going in Asia about which country has the world's largest skyscraper
on a given week.

The mega carriers have advantages and some disadvantages. Both carriers are
now so huge that they will be competing on a relatively level field. In my
mind the big issue for Cingular is that they just swallowed a huge fish.
How much has it tapped into their infrastructure build out.

Additionally, GSM is the new kid on the block in the US. As a new
technology, it is spreading like wildfire, but it still has catchup to play.
Additionally, GSM basically doesn't have fallback to older technologies.
(As a I side note, I know about GAIT and the one Siemens hybrid, but these
phones represent a minority of the phones used by the users and don't have
the data connectivity).

My opinion right now is that users of either company should stand pat for a
little while, let their contracts laps, and reevaluate the situation in a
year. Then they can vote with their feet.

Stu

"Jack Zwick" <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jzwick3-0D68A9.21010101122004@news1.east.earthlink.net...
> I've long been saying: "Look at the numbers" Verizon is growing so fast
> that it will be less than 2 years before they again become number one in
> number of subscribers, and overtake Cingular which will (and is) have
> trouble integrating in AT&T Wireless, witness the the switch of AT&T
> stores to selling only Cingular plans, that lasted all of one day.
>
> Now I have a URL for Navas who insist that his beloved Cingular will
> stay number one.
>
> " Several analysts and industry experts have said the combined company
> might not hold its lead for long, as both Cingular and AT&T Wireless
> have suffered from high customer defections, also known as churn, this
> year. "
>
> <http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1293&e=5&u=/nm/20041201
> /bs_nm/telecoms_cingular_outlook_dc&sid=95573419>