Win 7's XP Mode And VirtualBox: When You Need Windows XP

[Guest]

To all those keeping old hardware around or using dual boot to access old applications and other stuff not directly compatible with their main OS: these solutions are orders of magnitude less powerful than virtualization, at the business place or at home.
Hardware needs space and power, it is subject to physical wear and tear, if it's old it will probably run even slower than a virtualized version and can be difficult to protect and backup.
Dual boot takes a long time to switch from one OS to the next and when there are many such OSes, it gets nasty.
Virtualization allows easy and reasonably quick access to other OSes with minimal risk to the main OS and without needing to shut it down or (god forbid) having to switch to a completely different computer. You can easily suspend and resume it, you can easily move it from one place to another, you can manage resources such as disks and memory as you see fit, you can test whole environments without booting your main OS even a single time. Today, even modest hardware can sustain a surprising number of OSes simultaneously.
The only motivation I see for XP mode is trying to let the general public rip the benefits of virtualization without the hassle and confusion sometimes associated with full blown virtualization applications. I can say that the experience is not that seamless, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[apache_lives]

[citation][nom]eyemaster[/nom]Yes, great for you, but for large businesses, it's useless to keep old hardware. Once out of warranty, it's out of the building and in with the new. Virtualization has been in demand for a long time, and now it's finally ready for prime time.[/citation]

If software companies dont support new hardware and software they may as well go out of business.

Software companies also sell new versions of there software for a premium to actually make money etc - its the normal cycle

New Hardware = New Software, nothing new there.

 

[Major7up]

I enjoyed that article but I'd like to also see some performance test in the next one. Maybe a stress test too, how about it tom's?

 

[sidran32]

[citation][nom]hawkwindeb[/nom]Good question about where the file is stored.Does XP-Mode have snapshots? VirtualBox as the feature to Snapshot the virtual disk and therefore you could so this before every launch (if you want) and if a problem occurs, just revert to the prev snapshot.[/citation]
XP Mode, just like every other Virtual PC product out there, uses a vhd file which contains the virtual hard disk. Through the use of registry tricks (I expect) as well as hooks into the OS with VirtualPC, Windows 7 is able to run XP programs seamlessly together in the Windows 7 environment. They will have access to the physical hard disk through Virtual PC Additions, I believe, just like always before. The nifty thing about this is just the level of seamless integration into Windows 7 that this takes. It's very cool the way they did this. I already found use for it at home, here. My little brother uses a very old Windows XP program for typing, and it won't install on Vista or 7. So I threw it on Windows XP mode, and pulled the icon to the Windows 7 desktop. Voila, works like a charm.

 

[sidran32]

Also, no, I don't believe it has snapshots. Virtual PC was never the most powerful, scalable VM software around, however, it is just fine for casual and individual users, and works very well as a way to ensure compatibility for legacy software.

 

[Guest]

Hey guys,a question for the techies here...

I discovered VirtualBox recently and have got it running XP on my 64 Bit Vista ultimate running really well. It was easy and quick to install everything.

I find it great for testing apps and loading old multimedia files on apps that don't run in Vista.

I work in IT and could maybe borrow an old (or even new) Sun or Fujitsu server on which I could run solaris and then install XP (or vista)

My question is, could the Virtual XP Machine use all the resources of the Hardware or is there a limit to XP with regards to max RAM and use of processor power. I aim to have XP running, but virtualy and really fast using the latest hardware.

Thanks for the help guys!

Dave H

 

[WINTERLORD]

i wonder about this to. would be great to see some clarifacation on this. when in xp mode browser ect, you may think that a virus written for vista/win 7 would not exacute in win-XP, however if it was somehow stored it may activate during a boot-up of the reguler win7.
however another theory might be that having both would make you sucetable to not only viruses written for win7 but also viruses written for winXP and maybe affectivly doubling your risk. also im sure programmers/hackers wil;l writ viruses to have a dual infection -meanin written for both win-xp and win7. so does this really make you safer or more at risk?

 

[Guest]

There's an idiot on tomshardware who enjoys thumbs downing everything I say(as well as others who make sense on this site). Most likely because he's got brains the size of a pea, and can't understand ordinary logic.

But not like I care. It's not going to affect my credibility at all.

 

[wowrath]

Microsoft needs to scrap the whole Vista idea and start over. Go back to the drawing board. Its just that simple. Windows 7 is not going to fix anything. Why would you want to switch between Windows 7 and Windows XP? It doesn't make sense to be switching back and forth. It would be logical and practical to make a whole new Windows that actually works!

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Seems to me it's easier, more convenient, and less expensive for the IT flks to stick with Windows XP.

 

[programit]

I think its about time MS and others abandon 32bit and focus primarily on 64 bit. Being restricted to 3 gb is a joke with modern technologies.
It was that long ago when 512mb was standard, 1 gig was the norm and only the extreme systems had 2. The new MS operating systems require far greater resources now than XP or 98 or Linux or MAc OSX or ... ....
As far as XP mode goes I found it slow compared to Virtual box, and it may be a good idea for some basic users, but I found that I have found very few applications that don't run under x64, including games and basically its only the oldest of apps etc that don't seem to work.
I ran a test on my Centos machine running VMWare running XP Pro, compared to Windows 7 RC, XP Mode. The centos machine runs noticably faster, even though the machine is an older P4 dual. XPPro on Virtual Box was faster and smoother than XP Mode but not as fast as Centos VMWare mix. (Then again centos and WINE is even better )

 

[Guest]

I have some information that most are probably not aware of.
1) You cannot run Virtual Box and Windows Virtual PC virtual machines at the same time, they are not compatible.
2) Windows Virtual PC makes it look "tightly" integrated because Microsoft is starting the Virtual Machine and waiting until it comes online....then it is RDPing the session of the virtual machine for you. This gives you all the features of Remote Desktop; better screen resolution, starting applications in seamless mode, audio redirection, and mapping your local resources. About the only thing that is new is the mapping of your USB ports. If you RDP your old Virtual Machines in older versions of Windows you will see that it is very similar. Also a clue that you are RDPing your VM is that it has to log in you to your VM when you resize your window. This shows that you are disconnecting your session and reconnecting to the previous session.

 

[CrunchDude]

Would I be able to install OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard in a VM on Windows 7 x64?

 

[sidran32]

[citation][nom]CrunchDude[/nom]Would I be able to install OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard in a VM on Windows 7 x64?[/citation]
No. While Apple has moved to x86 and theoretically it should be possible to install it on any PC, Apple locked their OS to only Apple hardware. You may be able to jump through some hoops and get it to work, but it's not going to be easy nor foolproof.

 

[CrunchDude]

Moved to x86 (32-bit)?? You mean x64 (64-bit)? I know Apple makes it against policy to install their OS on any hardware other than their own. I know it can be done though, and Windows can run in Mac OS X. I also heard that the latter is easier, granted.

Anyone else know anything about this?

 

[sidran32]

[citation][nom]CrunchDude[/nom]Moved to x86 (32-bit)?? You mean x64 (64-bit)? I know Apple makes it against policy to install their OS on any hardware other than their own. I know it can be done though, and Windows can run in Mac OS X. I also heard that the latter is easier, granted.Anyone else know anything about this?[/citation]

"2006 was the year Apple moved from PowerPC processors, which it first started using in 1993, to Intel x86 CPUs."
http://www.lowendmac.com/history/2006.html

You do know that AMD64 is a superset of x86, right?

Yes it is possible, yet difficult to do. Do a search for "hackinstosh" and you'll see a lot of talk about trying to get that to work.

 

[HolyCrusader]

My thoughts so far on XP Virtual Mode (RC Version)

Installation of the prebuilt XP Install was quite easy. You don't have to use that version - you can create alternate virtual machines and set them up with the OS of your choice.

The whole thing of XP Mode saving files in the host operating system is a neat twist, but isn't that big of a jump. My guess is that the machine simply changes the default document location to point to outside of the virtual machine to the location of the host machines, "My Documents" location. Games or other programs that don't save their data to "My Documents" would not be affected. Internet temp files would also likely remain inside of the virtual machine itself. For an extra layer of security you could disable that feature by undoing these changes (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310147), or turn-off Integration features. Note, I'm just making an educated guess on this and can't confirm it right now. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me

Performance-wise, this version of Virtual PC seemed a little slower than the 2007 version and some VMWare stuff. For me, it starts out well, but starts getting sluggish after a little bit, as if there's a memory leak somewhere. I've noticed this mostly when running XP machines. Rebooting XP-Mode clears up the problem. btw, the host OS (Win7-7100) has 8 Gigs in it, so it's not a bottleneck there. I wonder if disabling the paging file in the virtual machine might clear that up. I'll have to test that later.

Pardon my ramblings, but sometimes I get some good ideas when I'm rambling like this

 

[JonnyDough]

So wait, my Opteron 185 that supports virtualization won't work because either A, my motherboard doesn't support it or B, it doesn't have the right instruction set? Screw you M$.

 

[JonnyDough]

Looks like it's dual boot time. Thank God I didn't buy a Dell!

 

[Evolution2001]

So unless I missed it (which is possible), did anyone sufficiently answer the question of viruses? If the VM can in fact store files to the host machine, I would think that malware could access it just as easily, no?
Unless the VM runs entirely in it's own memory space and shares nothing with the host, I don't understand how the host can be completely shielded.

 

[redgarl]

I use Vista for gaming purpose only due to DX10. All my software related with work are on xp.

Sincerely, Dual Boot is still the only way to go until another OS get as dominant as XP.

 

[gowens]

i can't get autopublish to work. have Win7 Pro, just downloaded and installed Virtual PC with XP Mode RC's and everything seems to work fine, with "integration features" automatically enabled. however, when i follow the directions and make an application available via the Win 7 start menu, I get an error message and it won't run. I can manually launch XP Mode and run the app, but no single click encapsulated magic. I've gone into the settings of the VM (XP Mode) even with the machine in a "powered down" state but the "enable auto publish" box is greyed out. Any guesses?

 

[MitchMeister-]

Guys and Gals, Windows 7 rocks. I only tried out the virtual mode for a bit, but honestly didn't see a reason for it. I have not had a single issue with any program that I've tried to run on 7. I like 7 so much that just from talking about it, every tech that I work with has now switched over, and all love it (none of us touched vista). Some how our systems actually run faster, everything opens quicker, and games some how are getting higher FPS. The only problems I've had personally have been with sound problems, not out putting to the correct source, which has only been a minor issue. Long story short, MS did 7 right. And if you are a company that is worried about upgrading, don't.

 

[programit]

I run XP Pro in Virtual box on Windows 7 x64 and simply share a network folder and set that as primary documents folder. That way I can access and interchange data easily. Its just a network drive as such and can be done with any VM software.
As far as Windows 7 being the best, I personally have found that it is better than Vista but a lot less stable, and far less performance than XP. Unfortunately XP is getting a bit long in the tooth.
Our general work systems are slowly switching to Linux for general use as its saves us $1,000's, on licencing and the move to online means the less need for proprietory systems. The software we need from Windows we run in Wine, or VMWare, but are testing Virtual Box as it appears to offer better performance in some cases.
Many businesses are not going to upgrade to Windows 7 simply because its there, when XP etc still runs fine, why run XP in slow mode if you can run it at full speed by simply not upgrading? (Especially if you are reliant on software that is not stable etc under Windows 7)

 

[loydcase]

[citation][nom]Are you sure about this? With the Windows integration, files downloaded in XP mode are stored in the Win7 system, right? This means if you download a trojan, it gets stored on your main OS with everything else, right? I don't think that's more secure. Regular virtual machiens are secure because they are entirely encapsulated, if you download a virus, you wipe the virtual image and its gone. With XP mode, you download a virus, it infects your primary OS, not the XP-Mode OS, unless I misread something.[/citation]

If malware tries to execute when in-browser, or because of a bug in the browser, it runs in the VM, and does no damage.