Windows 8.1 Prices Revealed: Upgrades are Full Versions

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There are too many commentards asking for Metro Apps in a window - how about you just use a desktop program seeing as it still actully has a desktop mode. If you aren't ready for Metro mode then don't use it. Anyone smart enough to moan about the foibles of the differences between desktop and Metro is smart enough to install ClassicShell and is only moaning about Windows 8 because they have OCD and need to get off the bandwagon.
 
I expect the "upgrade" to break all the kludge add-ons to replace the Start menu to again try to force everyone to embrace the phone-style interface on the desktop.
My Window 8 machine looks like a colorful Windows 3.1 machine, with folders containing icons so the desktop isn't covered with icons for the PROGRAMS I run, I don't do apps on a PC.
 
"
...
With China and select governments making a push for a transition from XP to Linus over the next few years, Linus may finally start eating away at Microsofts market share and finally force the monopoly to start pricing their products competitively :) "

Personally, I'll be waiting for Snoopy
 


I have a 27" monitor. Why would I want to be limited to doing 1 thing (2 if you count that little sliver you can have on either side) at a time? Why would I not want to be able to manually resize my Windows? 8 should be called Window singular. The market that depends on Windows the most (the desktop market) has been completely superseded by an attempt to challenge ios and Android? Great on something under 11", garbage on a big desktop.

MS is still a decent company, but they have absolutely no product direction or vision. They have become largely reactive and need some new blood in there to change that.
 


This is something I've wondered about for quite a while, actually. I had a Toshiba Qosmio laptop from around 2008 to 2011 that ran Windows Vista. I then got a replacement on warranty from Bestbuy (boy did that feel good - finally one of those warranty things paid up) of an Asus G73 laptop. The former ran Windows Vista out of box, and the latter ran Windows 7. What did I notice when I upgraded? Substantially better multi monitor support - it just worked when you plugged it in - and it didn't ask my permission for as many things. Over the years I noticed a bunch of little things which didn't really make that big a difference to me but out of box? That was it. The experiences were remarkably similar.

I've often heard Windows 7 described as "Windows Vista reskinned" and, frankly, I can't really disagree with that statement. Under the hood it was a bit better. It asked permission a bit less. Otherwise the user experience was pretty damned similar.

What I wonder is, what was this WOW factor that I constantly hear people referencing with Windows 7? It was a good, solid OS that did most everything I wanted it to and it gave me few complaints, but... It never did a damned thing to say "WOW" or make me fall in love with it. It was more just an incremental improvement from the previous Windows versions I'd tried since Windows 95.

What was this WOW factor? Any of you? What made Windows 7 so great?
 
There are a lot of people complaining about Windows 8 tiles on the RT side of the OS. I see the tiles as animated icons. I would however prefer to be able to fold tiles within tiles with the ability to add text to the surface tiles. Also, it appears that all Windows devices will run the RT OS, making the addition of Windows RT to the Desktop Windows OS very useful....meaning you can access all your RT apps on your phone, tablet or PC.
 
You know, I can't help but notice that posts of Windows 8 hatred were coming in at about one every ten minutes for the first stretch of this post coming out but I check this an hour later and I'm still waiting to see if anyone responded to my questions. I'm seriously interested in the questions I asked two posts above. I do entirely believe there are good answers to them and look forward to hearing them. Could anyone explain what was so great about Windows 7, possibly dispelling the sentiment that it was just "Windows Vista reskinned"? As a user of both Vista and 7 for several years each, I found Vista OK, 7 an incremental and expected improvement over it, and 8 to be pretty much the same with a new and entirely optional GUI tacked on. For those of you who make it such a big deal, what IS the big deal?
 


The first iteration of Vista was pretty bad. No driver support, odd flaky errors. It wasn't until after SP1 that it fixed a lot of issues and it became pretty stable after the 2nd service pack. You can call Win7 Vista SP3, if you want. The only complaint I've had since Beta was that damn Metro UI. It was retarded. It was badly thought out, or no thought was put into it at all.
 
"Those upgrading from Windows XP and Vista will have to start clean as files, settings and programs will not transfer. Furthermore, Microsoft recommends those upgrading from XP or Vista to purchase a retail boxed copy and perform a clean install." If the upgrade is a full version can't that be used to do a clean install?
 
"Those upgrading from Windows XP and Vista will have to start clean as files, settings and programs will not transfer. Furthermore, Microsoft recommends those upgrading from XP or Vista to purchase a retail boxed copy and perform a clean install." If the upgrade is a full version can't that be used to do a clean install?
 
"Linux and OS X would also considerably have nothing going for them either for the desktop. Linux is great for business type environments, but on a consumer level which is important, rubbish. Windows has the market share because there are no better alternatives, with the amount of people needing help with Windows already on a daily basis, Linux would be a nightmare with people constantly needing help. With what Windows offers too, compatibility, ease of use, stability, etc in their operating system paying 100 dollars for Windows 8 on Amazon is rather cheap. "
Having installed both linux (Kubuntu) and Windows on different machines recently I can say that the one where more support and help was needed was without doubt the windows machine. Installing from scratch is much easier with Linux these days and if buying from Amazon, users are going to have to do the install themselves. If it weren't for the fact that 90% of boxes are sold with Windows already installed, the knowledge that Linux is actually easier to install might stand a chance of getting through. The added advantage is that most of what they need will be installed at the same time.
 
"Linux and OS X would also considerably have nothing going for them either for the desktop. Linux is great for business type environments, but on a consumer level which is important, rubbish. Windows has the market share because there are no better alternatives, with the amount of people needing help with Windows already on a daily basis, Linux would be a nightmare with people constantly needing help. With what Windows offers too, compatibility, ease of use, stability, etc in their operating system paying 100 dollars for Windows 8 on Amazon is rather cheap. "
Having installed both linux (Kubuntu) and Windows on different machines recently I can say that the one where more support and help was needed was without doubt the windows machine. Installing from scratch is much easier with Linux these days and if buying from Amazon, users are going to have to do the install themselves. If it weren't for the fact that 90% of boxes are sold with Windows already installed, the knowledge that Linux is actually easier to install might stand a chance of getting through. The added advantage is that most of what they need will be installed at the same time.
 
(quote)Linux and OS X would also considerably have nothing going for them either for the desktop. Linux is great for business type environments, but on a consumer level which is important, rubbish. Windows has the market share because there are no better alternatives, with the amount of people needing help with Windows already on a daily basis, Linux would be a nightmare with people constantly needing help. With what Windows offers too, compatibility, ease of use, stability, etc in their operating system paying 100 dollars for Windows 8 on Amazon is rather cheap. (/quote)

Constantly needing help? If you go to the linux forum here your find that people mostly need help with-- "How do install Linux when Windows has made it difficult?" Easy answer is to replace Windows with Linux, takes 10 minutes and you only have to tell it your language, time zone, user name and password. Hard answer is to keep windows but possible. "I installed windows after Ubuntu and now I can't start Ubuntu." Windows removes Ubuntu's launcher while Ubuntu adds windows to it's launcher, not very friendly of Microsoft. "Can I run windows programs on Linux?" Many but it's better to use native programs like libre office rather than microsoft office. As more software developers embrace Linux, like Steam has, that will change. Since Android uses the Linux kernal that change is coming far faster than Microsoft would like. As to the desktop comment, I have no idea what you are talking about, Ubuntu or Mint are extremly desktop friendly. The convergence that Ubuntu talks about is that all software will run on any version not that the destop will look like your phone. Developers make one version and thats it, you can install it on your laptop, desktop, pad, phone...wherever and it'll run in the environment you've set to your liking as opposed to windows telling you what you will like. Finally, the learning curve for Ubuntu or mint is far, far easier than win8. There should never have to be a tutorial on the net on how to turn off my computer.
 


You seem to not get it. The vast majority of people(common PC users) will find it to difficult.

If they need to use some specific software, out of luck.
If they need to install drivers for their specific hardware, out of luck.
If they want to play games, out of luck.
ETC ETC

I'm not referring to the 5%-10% of the population like you or me who could easily use Linux or solve a problem on it. Most "normal" people would find it to complicated and need constant help.

You know how many thousands of people are incapable of basic things like:
Figuring out their monitor or PC cable is unplugged and call tech support.
Cannot install a browser or know what is the best.
Cannot print a document or setup their printer.
Stare at the screen for a minute then figure out where they are supposed to click.
Buy a mac because they find Windows to crash happy after they themselves are the ones causing the issues by going to obviously dangerous sites or doing dumb stuff..
ETC, ETC..

Some of these are examples of how incapable thousands and thousands of people are with computers. You would expect the vast majority of people to go "hey, I can't figure this out, I'll go to a Linux forum to learn how to use the terminal for this or find compatible software?" No, the first thing they will do is buy a MAC. This is the vast majority of people, not the 5-10% of people like us who visit tech sites or do tech related hobbies.

You cannot compare a phone using Linux to a PC running linux too, totally different environments.

Ubuntu has a horrible GUI in my personal opinion, which is why I prefer Mint too.

I'm not against Linux advancing in market share or anything(MS needs competition), but it's to much for the common person, they want something that installs easily and everything works on it right away without issues.
 
You seem to not get it. The vast majority of people(common PC users) will find it to difficult.

If they need to use some specific software, out of luck.
If they need to install drivers for their specific hardware, out of luck.
If they want to play games, out of luck.
ETC ETC

I'm not referring to the 5%-10% of the population like you or me who could easily use Linux or solve a problem on it. Most "normal" people would find it to complicated and need constant help.

You know how many thousands of people are incapable of basic things like:
Figuring out their monitor or PC cable is unplugged and call tech support.
Cannot install a browser or know what is the best.
Cannot print a document or setup their printer.
Stare at the screen for a minute then figure out where they are supposed to click.
Buy a mac because they find Windows to crash happy after they themselves are the ones causing the issues by going to obviously dangerous sites or doing dumb stuff..
ETC, ETC..

Some of these are examples of how incapable thousands and thousands of people are with computers. You would expect the vast majority of people to go "hey, I can't figure this out, I'll go to a Linux forum to learn how to use the terminal for this or find compatible software?" No, the first thing they will do is buy a MAC. This is the vast majority of people, not the 5-10% of people like us who visit tech sites or do tech related hobbies.

You cannot compare a phone using Linux to a PC running linux too, totally different environments.

Ubuntu has a horrible GUI in my personal opinion, which is why I prefer Mint too.

I'm not against Linux advancing in market share or anything(MS needs competition), but it's to much for the common person, they want something that installs easily and everything works on it right away without issues.
Click to expand...

You're a gamer, most users are not. No doubt that windows is better for gaming now. Yet games are coming to linux fast, Steam is a prime example.
More and more hardware is becoming compatible rapidly, in fact, the only drivers I've ever had to install were for brother printers. The rest is far easier than windows. How to install an HP printer into Ubuntu? You plug it in, finished. Windows you get out the CD...It's not the fault of Linux, it's the manufacturors of hardware and they are coming around.
I compared the phones to computers because they ARE becoming the same or have you not been paying attention here?
The basic things you say many users are incapable of are windows problems as well, except the virus problem to which you allude that is a windows monoploy.😀
I am the computer geek in an African city where I have to get people up and running as easily and quickly as possible. Many, well most actually, have never even used a calculator before. I find the learning curve for Ubuntu or Lubuntu on older machines is far faster than even Win7, don't even try Win8. Not a single person here who has gotten a computer with win8 has left it on their computer. Even I had to go to the net to find out how to turn off the computer correctly and that is just wrong. LibreOffice is easier to teach than MS office since 2007.
It all comes down to intuitive, Ubuntu and other flavors are very intuitive, Win8 is not. Win7 was good, MS Office less so than LibreOffice.
So, play your games on windows or get a game console but when you need to get some work done fire up linux.


 
Not to mention the fact that you can cut around $50 or more off the price of a PC by going with Linux. When PCs are now selling in the $300 range, that's a big chunk of change going to the OS which most people don't need. Not to mention the fact that you're freeing up around 15 GB of HD space on those tiny 32 GB drives everyone is using these days.

 




Phones are way different, they are easy to use, you go to the Playstore and click install, and you can start using the app. You don't have to do anything at all to a phone, it's incredibly fool proof. Android to phones is like Windows to desktop PCs.

What the are you talking about "windows problems as well" when I just said those are the problems users cannot handle on Windows. Thousands of Windows users cannot do basic things, do you expect them to find it easier on Linux in its current state?

While I agree metro is weird and confusing for people, it takes a minute to figure it out, I figured out how to turn if off on my first time using it in seconds, it's not hard.

I am more than a gamer too. Also, I have Linux Mint on a dual boot on one of my machines I use sometimes, but I cannot do encoding, photoshop, or many other things on Linux as well as as I can on Windows.

If Linux Mint or some other distributions were as simple as Windows and had the same amount of software compatibility then I could see it being a huge hit. You will see people using OS X before Windows. Don't over estimate the intelligence of people.

I have nothing against Linux growing or being used more(I like Linux and use it occasionally), but from the perspective of the common person, it's still to much work for them; it needs to be simpler.
 


You keep saying "common person" and then go into discussing issues with the lack of specialty software... Do you have any grasp on the needs of the "common person"? Because if you did you wouldn't keep bringing up the same moot point about productivity software and gaming. Maybe its time you stop projecting your own needs and wants...
 


....I am making more than one point in my comments, I guess that was to hard to grasp?

-My own statements how Linux does is not capable of supporting my varying needs in many software/hardware areas as someone who is not an average computer user.

-My view points on how the common person also would find it to difficult to use Linux since most people can barley handle Windows as it is, which is pretty much true from always seeing people unable to do simple tasks on a Windows machine such as installing a browser or doing other minimal tasks.

 


Oh really? Your entire "ease of use" argument is build upon the same premise. You have provided no substantiated evidence in your claim that Linus is more difficult to learn than Windows. Your use of anecdotal evidence seems to rely on nothing but personal use and preconceived notions of what other individuals want based on projections of your own wants and needs.

Nevertheless, your above use of the personal incredulity is a clear attempt to shift the burden of proof of your argument since you can't actually formulate a real rebuttal. Good day, Sir.

 
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