- Status
mayankleoboy1
Distinguished
- Aug 11, 2010
- 2,497
- 0
- 19,810
captaincharisma
Glorious
- Oct 13, 2004
- 10,959
- 76
- 45,290
[citation][nom]Rds1220[/nom]Pff Microshit with thier POS OS. No way in hell am I buying a computer with this OS and I refuse to put it onto customers computers when I build computers for them.[/citation]
then get ready to go out of business cause nobody wants linux
then get ready to go out of business cause nobody wants linux
outlw6669
Splendid
- Dec 4, 2006
- 4,821
- 1
- 23,460
Seeing as Microsoft wants this OS to be a mainly tablet OS I think we can quite easily explain the lack of Aero.
You see, the majority of x86 tablets will be Intel Atom based and their latest Ceder Trail chips have some seriously broken IGPs.
So rather than insisting that Intel get its game together (if they even can fix that IGP), they drop support in the OS for Aero.
Quite simple really :/
From Anand's Ceder Trail Article: <= Edit: sorry, I guess links do not work well in the comments
You see, the majority of x86 tablets will be Intel Atom based and their latest Ceder Trail chips have some seriously broken IGPs.
So rather than insisting that Intel get its game together (if they even can fix that IGP), they drop support in the OS for Aero.
Quite simple really :/
From Anand's Ceder Trail Article: <= Edit: sorry, I guess links do not work well in the comments
[citation][nom]danieldsmith[/nom]Most companies have to pay people to participate in market research, and here we are freely providing the clearest possible feedback on what *has* to be done to make the product a success, yet sadly, it's falling on of deaf ears.[/citation]
That's because we're not the customers they want to market to anymore. After Apple started making their billions with their idiot-proof iOS and convinced Google to follow suit with Android, Microsoft obviously wanted to copy that success in the PC OS market which they already dominate by far. MS basically wants to do for PCs what Apple did for phones: Focus on the mainstream to obtain the largest possible market and massively increase profits. Apple couldn't re-focus the PC market to the mainstream because Windows' market share was already enormous compared to Mac OS when they released OSX and started their popular Mac vs PC commercials. Microsoft, however, is in a much better position to actually succeed in doing it.
Microsoft wants to leverage both their PC market dominance and Apple's mainstream design approach to change the entire focus of PCs to the much larger mainstream market that Apple has been making billions off of with phones. Frankly I think it's going to actually work because of MS's huge PC market dominance, and I'm genuinely scared for the future of PCs overall. In the very near future we may have no choice but to settle for something obnoxiously mainstream and overly user friendly whether we want it or not.
TL;DR: Our complaints are being ignored by MS because we are insignificant compared to the sheer size of the mainstream market they clearly want to focus on. Mark my words......the days of the traditional Windows PC enthusiast are numbered and W8 marks the end of an era for many of us that grew up with Windows.
That's because we're not the customers they want to market to anymore. After Apple started making their billions with their idiot-proof iOS and convinced Google to follow suit with Android, Microsoft obviously wanted to copy that success in the PC OS market which they already dominate by far. MS basically wants to do for PCs what Apple did for phones: Focus on the mainstream to obtain the largest possible market and massively increase profits. Apple couldn't re-focus the PC market to the mainstream because Windows' market share was already enormous compared to Mac OS when they released OSX and started their popular Mac vs PC commercials. Microsoft, however, is in a much better position to actually succeed in doing it.
Microsoft wants to leverage both their PC market dominance and Apple's mainstream design approach to change the entire focus of PCs to the much larger mainstream market that Apple has been making billions off of with phones. Frankly I think it's going to actually work because of MS's huge PC market dominance, and I'm genuinely scared for the future of PCs overall. In the very near future we may have no choice but to settle for something obnoxiously mainstream and overly user friendly whether we want it or not.
TL;DR: Our complaints are being ignored by MS because we are insignificant compared to the sheer size of the mainstream market they clearly want to focus on. Mark my words......the days of the traditional Windows PC enthusiast are numbered and W8 marks the end of an era for many of us that grew up with Windows.
Belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,545
- 2
- 22,795
Magicandy: You nailed it. Microsoft's plans with Metro is genius. Its a great IDEA to gain market share... and I think it'll replace Windows. Look at all the OLD code in Window98x/NT that sucks up gigs of HD space.
With metro, its a simpler and tighter OS... it runs on phones, tablets and desktops. Metro apps will run on all. What the future will be is unknown. MS will get their CONTROL of the PC hardware / prevent Linux from being installed on mainstream PCs (Dell, HP, Acer, Sony, etc).
Power users WILL need to switch to Linux I think. Others may go Apple OS.
Look at it this way, as of today - there is only a few reasons to NEED a Windows PC... which is pretty much just MS-Office.
As long as we have the browser, nothing else much matters.
- Games? MS doesn't support games for Windows (Xbox?)
- Adobe products? Comes in both Mac and PC (Need a Linux version)
- Quickbooks? Most is PC only thou.
So what else? Why do we really NEED Microsoft / Windows / Office? You can run MS-Office 2010 in a browser nowadays... even on an iPad.
I'm seriously thinking of going Apple... if they a mini-tower system that $600~800. I don't want their AIO nor their $2500+ tower workstations. But... the consumer market is moving more into notebooks and macbooks don't cost much more than a quality ThinkPad or higher end HP or Dell.
With metro, its a simpler and tighter OS... it runs on phones, tablets and desktops. Metro apps will run on all. What the future will be is unknown. MS will get their CONTROL of the PC hardware / prevent Linux from being installed on mainstream PCs (Dell, HP, Acer, Sony, etc).
Power users WILL need to switch to Linux I think. Others may go Apple OS.
Look at it this way, as of today - there is only a few reasons to NEED a Windows PC... which is pretty much just MS-Office.
As long as we have the browser, nothing else much matters.
- Games? MS doesn't support games for Windows (Xbox?)
- Adobe products? Comes in both Mac and PC (Need a Linux version)
- Quickbooks? Most is PC only thou.
So what else? Why do we really NEED Microsoft / Windows / Office? You can run MS-Office 2010 in a browser nowadays... even on an iPad.
I'm seriously thinking of going Apple... if they a mini-tower system that $600~800. I don't want their AIO nor their $2500+ tower workstations. But... the consumer market is moving more into notebooks and macbooks don't cost much more than a quality ThinkPad or higher end HP or Dell.
lradunovic77
Distinguished
- Dec 20, 2009
- 405
- 0
- 18,780
My PC is not a giant Tablet. No thanks. I will look at Windows when they disable stupid Metro. That thing failed on Zune, Windows Phone is pretty much failure, can't believe they want to push it to Desktop.
CaedenV
Splendid
- Jun 14, 2011
- 4,829
- 3
- 23,465
[citation][nom]outlw6669[/nom]Seeing as Microsoft wants this OS to be a mainly tablet OS I think we can quite easily explain the lack of Aero.You see, the majority of x86 tablets will be Intel Atom based and their latest Ceder Trail chips have some seriously broken IGPs.So rather than insisting that Intel get its game together (if they even can fix that IGP), they drop support in the OS for Aero.Quite simple really From Anand's Ceder Trail Article: <= Edit: sorry, I guess links do not work well in the comments[/citation]
Um.. I have a few netbooks, both ~1-2 years old, and nither one has any problem at all running Aero. Aero takes very little CPU/GPU power. The move away from Aero is merely because they want to move in a different direction with the interface, and want it to be a seamless expierence between the 2 UIs.
Agreed, moving away from the sleek glass look is a bad idea. But to say that it is for the sake of performance is a bit much to swallow.
... How much cooler would the Metro start menu look if it was and etched glass overlay on top of the desktop? Man, that would look sweet!
Um.. I have a few netbooks, both ~1-2 years old, and nither one has any problem at all running Aero. Aero takes very little CPU/GPU power. The move away from Aero is merely because they want to move in a different direction with the interface, and want it to be a seamless expierence between the 2 UIs.
Agreed, moving away from the sleek glass look is a bad idea. But to say that it is for the sake of performance is a bit much to swallow.
... How much cooler would the Metro start menu look if it was and etched glass overlay on top of the desktop? Man, that would look sweet!
CaedenV
Splendid
- Jun 14, 2011
- 4,829
- 3
- 23,465
[citation][nom]magicandy[/nom]That's because we're not the customers they want to market to anymore. After Apple started making their billions with their idiot-proof iOS and convinced Google to follow suit with Android, Microsoft obviously wanted to copy that success in the PC OS market which they already dominate by far. MS basically wants to do for PCs what Apple did for phones: Focus on the mainstream to obtain the largest possible market and massively increase profits. Apple couldn't re-focus the PC market to the mainstream because Windows' market share was already enormous compared to Mac OS when they released OSX and started their popular Mac vs PC commercials. Microsoft, however, is in a much better position to actually succeed in doing it.Microsoft wants to leverage both their PC market dominance and Apple's mainstream design approach to change the entire focus of PCs to the much larger mainstream market that Apple has been making billions off of with phones. Frankly I think it's going to actually work because of MS's huge PC market dominance, and I'm genuinely scared for the future of PCs overall. In the very near future we may have no choice but to settle for something obnoxiously mainstream and overly user friendly whether we want it or not.TL;DR: Our complaints are being ignored by MS because we are insignificant compared to the sheer size of the mainstream market they clearly want to focus on. Mark my words......the days of the traditional Windows PC enthusiast are numbered and W8 marks the end of an era for many of us that grew up with Windows.[/citation]
EXACTLY!!!
MS wants to move to the cloud, and cloud services. Having the same OS core for their phone, tablet, and desktop lines is the exact reason they are doing what they are doing. Personally I think they should stick with different interfaces for different devices, but I completely understand why they decided to do what they are doing. I don't quite think they have the look/feel right yet, but it is a good direction to head in.
Besides, the cloud integration is very well done in win8. Attach it to your live ID and you have 25GB of files between all your win8 devices. You have settings, passwords, and programs that follow you between devices. You have a fair amount of bandwidth control on your devices. They have it done, and they have it done right. Now if only I was not paranoid about my files all being in a central location we would be golden, but so far they are playing nice and not data-mining the hell out of it.
Win8
Interface: meh, not great, but complaints are overblown
OS features: Awesome! It is lighter, faster, and crammed packed with features you use to only be able to get with mods or utilities, and most of them are super easy to get to!
Cloud: Not perfect, but a convincing and working product. Needs improvement (desktop programs need to move between machines, because nobody is going to use metro programs any time soon), but for what it is I like it a lot.
Cant wait to play with the next build Friday!
EXACTLY!!!
MS wants to move to the cloud, and cloud services. Having the same OS core for their phone, tablet, and desktop lines is the exact reason they are doing what they are doing. Personally I think they should stick with different interfaces for different devices, but I completely understand why they decided to do what they are doing. I don't quite think they have the look/feel right yet, but it is a good direction to head in.
Besides, the cloud integration is very well done in win8. Attach it to your live ID and you have 25GB of files between all your win8 devices. You have settings, passwords, and programs that follow you between devices. You have a fair amount of bandwidth control on your devices. They have it done, and they have it done right. Now if only I was not paranoid about my files all being in a central location we would be golden, but so far they are playing nice and not data-mining the hell out of it.
Win8
Interface: meh, not great, but complaints are overblown
OS features: Awesome! It is lighter, faster, and crammed packed with features you use to only be able to get with mods or utilities, and most of them are super easy to get to!
Cloud: Not perfect, but a convincing and working product. Needs improvement (desktop programs need to move between machines, because nobody is going to use metro programs any time soon), but for what it is I like it a lot.
Cant wait to play with the next build Friday!
outlw6669
Splendid
- Dec 4, 2006
- 4,821
- 1
- 23,460
I would normally agree to the performance assessment.
I have ran Aero both on an ancient laptop's GMA 950 and the woman's Atom N450 (a GMA 950 derivative; the GMA 3150) based netbook with no issues.
Unfortunately, Intel's new Pine Trail Atom processors completely replaced their old IGP with a PowerVR SGX 545 based 'GMA 3650'.
This seems to have been a real mistake as it seems Intel can not create working drivers for it.
From Anand's review (if the link posts right now: http://goo.gl/ve4K6), drivers where completely inoperable.
It took the manufacturer of the test system sending him a new system with 'working' drivers slipstreamed into the instillation to get stable output.
Even then, Aero was out of the picture as it induced massive amounts of lag into the system.
Why is this important you ask?
Two reasons.
1) Until recently Aero was enabled in Windows 8 preview builds (as was the option to disable it).
2) The majority of x86 tablet manufacturers are going to be using the latest Intel Atom chips (Pine Trail with the broken IGP).
To this I draw the conclusion that Intel and possibly vendors pressured Microsoft to remove Aero when it became clear that Intel's drivers would never be up to snuff.
It just would not be in their best interest to have another Vista moment where there are no working drivers for common hardware components, dragging the overall user experience down.
For me personally, the loss of Aero is more disturbing than the loss of the start menu.
Not really because of the missing eye candy, more for the loss of functionality.
I regularly take advantage of Aero Peek and Snap to increase my productivity when digging around through multiple documents and programs.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]outlw6669[/nom]Seeing as Microsoft wants this OS to be a mainly tablet OS I think we can quite easily explain the lack of Aero.You see, the majority of x86 tablets will be Intel Atom based and their latest Ceder Trail chips have some seriously broken IGPs.So rather than insisting that Intel get its game together (if they even can fix that IGP), they drop support in the OS for Aero.Quite simple really From Anand's Ceder Trail Article: <= Edit: sorry, I guess links do not work well in the comments[/citation]
What about Medfield? Some of the Medfield chips have excellent IGPs that are as good as the A5X's graphics and if I remember correctly, it has the fastest GPU available for the phone/tablet platform. Although, if the drivers are the only problem and the hardware is actually good enough, then the problem is purely Intel's fault. I don't understand why they didn't just chop up one of their newer IGPs that are in the desktop/laptop processors. For HD 2000/2500/3000/4000, they can make decent enough drivers for most workloads right now (unfortunately, many OEM companies don't use Intel's drivers and instead make their own, fail miserably, and then refuse to update them), so why not keep with what they know to work at least well enough?
What about Medfield? Some of the Medfield chips have excellent IGPs that are as good as the A5X's graphics and if I remember correctly, it has the fastest GPU available for the phone/tablet platform. Although, if the drivers are the only problem and the hardware is actually good enough, then the problem is purely Intel's fault. I don't understand why they didn't just chop up one of their newer IGPs that are in the desktop/laptop processors. For HD 2000/2500/3000/4000, they can make decent enough drivers for most workloads right now (unfortunately, many OEM companies don't use Intel's drivers and instead make their own, fail miserably, and then refuse to update them), so why not keep with what they know to work at least well enough?
killabanks
Distinguished
- Oct 27, 2011
- 104
- 0
- 18,680
[citation][nom]acerace[/nom]Gosh, I hope next Windows name will not be Windows 9. Effin horrible and not creative.[/citation]
want creative get a mac lol we like things that just work around here!!
want creative get a mac lol we like things that just work around here!!
TheWhiteRose000
Distinguished
- Jul 10, 2010
- 342
- 0
- 18,780
captaincharisma
Glorious
- Oct 13, 2004
- 10,959
- 76
- 45,290
captaincharisma
Glorious
- Oct 13, 2004
- 10,959
- 76
- 45,290
which is why i stay away from mac because i like things that work and don't cost an arm and a leg for something shiny LOL
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]Magicandy: You nailed it. Microsoft's plans with Metro is genius. Its a great IDEA to gain market share... and I think it'll replace Windows. Look at all the OLD code in Window98x/NT that sucks up gigs of HD space.With metro, its a simpler and tighter OS... it runs on phones, tablets and desktops. Metro apps will run on all. What the future will be is unknown. MS will get their CONTROL of the PC hardware / prevent Linux from being installed on mainstream PCs (Dell, HP, Acer, Sony, etc).Power users WILL need to switch to Linux I think. Others may go Apple OS.Look at it this way, as of today - there is only a few reasons to NEED a Windows PC... which is pretty much just MS-Office.As long as we have the browser, nothing else much matters.- Games? MS doesn't support games for Windows (Xbox?)- Adobe products? Comes in both Mac and PC (Need a Linux version)- Quickbooks? Most is PC only thou.So what else? Why do we really NEED Microsoft / Windows / Office? You can run MS-Office 2010 in a browser nowadays... even on an iPad.I'm seriously thinking of going Apple... if they a mini-tower system that $600~800. I don't want their AIO nor their $2500+ tower workstations. But... the consumer market is moving more into notebooks and macbooks don't cost much more than a quality ThinkPad or higher end HP or Dell.[/citation]
Theoretically, games written in OpenGL, OpenCl, and Java could run on Linux and Windows without problems if they're coded correctly and besides that, there is proper DX support on Linux (all the way up to DX11). Besides that, many (perhaps most) games can be run on Linux with a little work (not that it's as easy and simply as clicking and installing with every game, but it's an option) and even if they couldn't, we have OS projects, such as React OS, that strive for native compatibility with Windows. Even if there weren't such projects, then such projects would be started by coders should MS truly ruin the PC gaming platform. When there is a problem, you can bet that someone is working on solving it and chances are that at least several different groups are working to solve it and possibly in different ways. In fact, it's usually much easier to get games that aren't specifically designed to run on Linux to run on Linux than it is to get them running on any other OS (obviously excluding Windows) and you also have a far greater chance of success.
Furthermore, when it comes to things such as MS Office and even Adobe Flash (and so much more), there are already versions for Linux and there are even excellent open source Flash players and office suites that run on Linux. Metro's problems, at least as I see them, is how it is less efficient than the classic desktop for some work, might hurt freeware greatly (MS seems intent on using a much more closed system for software distribution and usage and that tends to make freeware less attractive to make), and how it seems to be designed for use with a touch screen, despite that meaning that anyone without a touch screen will likely not enjoy it as much and that for the very common jobs that make a touch screen impractical. Metro isn't really bad, but it's less universally good than the classic desktop, meaning that it can beat the desktop in some situations, but the desktop beats it in others.
With Linux and a few other operating systems, you have so many options and so many different tools to solve almost all incompatibility problems between programs and/or you have compatible alternatives. It's something worth looking into. Sure, it'd often be a lot more work than you want it to be, but it would be doable.
Regardless of all of that, for now, none of that seems necessary. As of yet, MS doesn't seem to have ruined Windows for enthusiasts, hardcore gamers, and such. MS is making us do slightly more work in some situations, but it's still easier than doing it all on Linux and others.
Theoretically, games written in OpenGL, OpenCl, and Java could run on Linux and Windows without problems if they're coded correctly and besides that, there is proper DX support on Linux (all the way up to DX11). Besides that, many (perhaps most) games can be run on Linux with a little work (not that it's as easy and simply as clicking and installing with every game, but it's an option) and even if they couldn't, we have OS projects, such as React OS, that strive for native compatibility with Windows. Even if there weren't such projects, then such projects would be started by coders should MS truly ruin the PC gaming platform. When there is a problem, you can bet that someone is working on solving it and chances are that at least several different groups are working to solve it and possibly in different ways. In fact, it's usually much easier to get games that aren't specifically designed to run on Linux to run on Linux than it is to get them running on any other OS (obviously excluding Windows) and you also have a far greater chance of success.
Furthermore, when it comes to things such as MS Office and even Adobe Flash (and so much more), there are already versions for Linux and there are even excellent open source Flash players and office suites that run on Linux. Metro's problems, at least as I see them, is how it is less efficient than the classic desktop for some work, might hurt freeware greatly (MS seems intent on using a much more closed system for software distribution and usage and that tends to make freeware less attractive to make), and how it seems to be designed for use with a touch screen, despite that meaning that anyone without a touch screen will likely not enjoy it as much and that for the very common jobs that make a touch screen impractical. Metro isn't really bad, but it's less universally good than the classic desktop, meaning that it can beat the desktop in some situations, but the desktop beats it in others.
With Linux and a few other operating systems, you have so many options and so many different tools to solve almost all incompatibility problems between programs and/or you have compatible alternatives. It's something worth looking into. Sure, it'd often be a lot more work than you want it to be, but it would be doable.
Regardless of all of that, for now, none of that seems necessary. As of yet, MS doesn't seem to have ruined Windows for enthusiasts, hardcore gamers, and such. MS is making us do slightly more work in some situations, but it's still easier than doing it all on Linux and others.
ejb222
Distinguished
- Jan 17, 2012
- 162
- 0
- 18,680
I really wish all the overblown "I hate Metro" people would go away. It's so childish!
I pretty excited for Win8. Hoping my phone gets the Apollo upgrade so I can take full advantage of the integration and features.
Other than look and feel, i really dont know what the major complain people have is. Win8 is better in every way possible over Win7. And no one is forcing upgrades...so keep Win7 if you like it. And if you have real suggestions for Win8 make viable comments. Don't just come here and spew childish rants.
I pretty excited for Win8. Hoping my phone gets the Apollo upgrade so I can take full advantage of the integration and features.
Other than look and feel, i really dont know what the major complain people have is. Win8 is better in every way possible over Win7. And no one is forcing upgrades...so keep Win7 if you like it. And if you have real suggestions for Win8 make viable comments. Don't just come here and spew childish rants.
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