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jedifenner
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Couple of reasons why I cannot:
1. I would, but I have a full-time job, second part-time job, kids, etc... No time to pretend to be smart enough to write a review (DANG IT!) I mean a personal blog about technology... 8)
2. I did not get a free laptop with Vista given to me by M$ for testing, like some have...
3. I would really hate to have some jerk (like me) writing such flaming comments about what I put into my personal blog. Especially those guys that just won't go away! That would just plain suck! HA! :twisted:
1. I would, but I have a full-time job, second part-time job, kids, etc... No time to pretend to be smart enough to write a review (DANG IT!) I mean a personal blog about technology... 8)
2. I did not get a free laptop with Vista given to me by M$ for testing, like some have...
3. I would really hate to have some jerk (like me) writing such flaming comments about what I put into my personal blog. Especially those guys that just won't go away! That would just plain suck! HA! :twisted:
jedifenner
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Sorry, but where, in any of my replies, did I say that I suggest all my users/clients to use the default features WITHOUT having thoroughly testing the OS first??? You really got to stop putting words in peoples mouths, it is not very nice at all... :lol:
Since you did not catch my initial meaning from all the other postings I have thrown out here, I will lay it out for you more plainly. If a user comes to me wanting to use Windows XP (which is a platform that I have thoroughly tested) I would always recommend that they try to use the default interface and features that come standard with the OS. That way if they were to ever go to another PC (or buy a new one) that has Windows XP installed, they won't have to reconfigure the PC in order to get it to a state that they are comfortable working in. When it comes to Vista, once I have done my own testing, I will continue to do the same. Where is the chaos in that?
It has also been my experience that with each new revision to any OS, I have found several new features (ways of doing things for the layperson) which allows me to work faster on that platform.
As far as protecting users from features that "break" functionality, then yes, it is up to the professional to either fix those issues (via policies, patches, etc.) and/or by letting the customer know how to get around it.
Of course I, or any tech professional worth a spit, should not recommend that anyone use any product without thoroughly testing it. But until you try out the new features/interfaces/functionality in an OS, how can you make any recommendations as to its quality from a product purchasing / implementation standpoint? All of this basically goes without saying. Its like telling everyone that the sky is blue. It sure is, but why bring up the obvious.
Finally, what the heck is a hergieburbur? :lol:
Since you did not catch my initial meaning from all the other postings I have thrown out here, I will lay it out for you more plainly. If a user comes to me wanting to use Windows XP (which is a platform that I have thoroughly tested) I would always recommend that they try to use the default interface and features that come standard with the OS. That way if they were to ever go to another PC (or buy a new one) that has Windows XP installed, they won't have to reconfigure the PC in order to get it to a state that they are comfortable working in. When it comes to Vista, once I have done my own testing, I will continue to do the same. Where is the chaos in that?
It has also been my experience that with each new revision to any OS, I have found several new features (ways of doing things for the layperson) which allows me to work faster on that platform.
As far as protecting users from features that "break" functionality, then yes, it is up to the professional to either fix those issues (via policies, patches, etc.) and/or by letting the customer know how to get around it.
Of course I, or any tech professional worth a spit, should not recommend that anyone use any product without thoroughly testing it. But until you try out the new features/interfaces/functionality in an OS, how can you make any recommendations as to its quality from a product purchasing / implementation standpoint? All of this basically goes without saying. Its like telling everyone that the sky is blue. It sure is, but why bring up the obvious.
Finally, what the heck is a hergieburbur? :lol:
hergieburbur
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Your tone from the quote I cited implied that all new features were progress and helpful. I had to point out that that is not always the case. I meant no offense. nor any personal attack on you.
And a hergieburbur is the same thing as a jedifenner, a handle.
And a hergieburbur is the same thing as a jedifenner, a handle.
jedifenner
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Ah, I love text-based communications... tone, emotion, etc. are never conveyed well.
I know you weren't attacking me, just stating your thoughts. Otherwise, you might say something like "jedifenner, you are a worthless piece of crap and your mother is a..", well, you get the idea.
I agree with most of what you posted(about fully testing a product before making any recommendations), except that I believe you misunderstood my meaning about trying out the features and seeing if they can help you. I do honestly believe that if you give the new features in any given product a chance(after thorough testing of course), that you might find them to be helpful/beneficial. To shut them off and revert back without giving them a true test, as the author of this blog had done, is counterproductive and not very useful to his readers regardless of his reasoning that it is a personal blog. But as noted, that is just my humble opinion. Even if you are like one of the other chaps who disagreed with me(the one that said he used the new interface for 3 months before going back to classic view), at least he gave it a try. Though, I still have problems basing your assumptions on a product when you are obviously testing a Beta release. Not sure if he was having driver issues or not, but the RTM version I am running is on a simple HP DC7600, core duo with a gig of RAM, built-in graphics card and it performs very well. Thought I will admit that I have not given it my full endorsement because I have only been able to use it and the Betas for only a couple of hours each week since there are a number of legacy apps I need to run from XP that are not yet supported in Vista (and probably never will be---DOH!)...
Either way, no harm, no foul...
About your name, it is just so unique I had to ask. Mine is obvious, the jedi in jedifenner shows that I am a total nerd about scifi and love the Lucas lore. But hergieburbur, that one has me stumped... Is it a play on your own name or something?
I know you weren't attacking me, just stating your thoughts. Otherwise, you might say something like "jedifenner, you are a worthless piece of crap and your mother is a..", well, you get the idea.
I agree with most of what you posted(about fully testing a product before making any recommendations), except that I believe you misunderstood my meaning about trying out the features and seeing if they can help you. I do honestly believe that if you give the new features in any given product a chance(after thorough testing of course), that you might find them to be helpful/beneficial. To shut them off and revert back without giving them a true test, as the author of this blog had done, is counterproductive and not very useful to his readers regardless of his reasoning that it is a personal blog. But as noted, that is just my humble opinion. Even if you are like one of the other chaps who disagreed with me(the one that said he used the new interface for 3 months before going back to classic view), at least he gave it a try. Though, I still have problems basing your assumptions on a product when you are obviously testing a Beta release. Not sure if he was having driver issues or not, but the RTM version I am running is on a simple HP DC7600, core duo with a gig of RAM, built-in graphics card and it performs very well. Thought I will admit that I have not given it my full endorsement because I have only been able to use it and the Betas for only a couple of hours each week since there are a number of legacy apps I need to run from XP that are not yet supported in Vista (and probably never will be---DOH!)...
Either way, no harm, no foul...
About your name, it is just so unique I had to ask. Mine is obvious, the jedi in jedifenner shows that I am a total nerd about scifi and love the Lucas lore. But hergieburbur, that one has me stumped... Is it a play on your own name or something?
jedifenner
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I forgot to ask, when is the next blog, er review, uh I mean personal diary coming out? Soon I hope. I CAN NOT WAIT FOR IT! You are my new blogging hero! I have never met someone willing to put themselves up for such a slamfest as you have. MAN, just can't wait to see you defending yourself against the next series of forum hounds as they savagely attack your musings...
And if you would, could you try to uninstall all the new options/features/functionality in Vista (by unregistering DLLs, stopping services, hacking the OS) to make it run like Windows 2000... OOOH OOOH, or better yet, make it run like Windows ME or 98... THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!
And if you would, could you try to uninstall all the new options/features/functionality in Vista (by unregistering DLLs, stopping services, hacking the OS) to make it run like Windows 2000... OOOH OOOH, or better yet, make it run like Windows ME or 98... THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!
hergieburbur
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I understand completely. I also thought that using the classic interface was a bad initial move, though at some point it should have been explored. I myself have only used the RC versions of Vista, but I have been less than impressed. I really hope that the RTM is better, since I will eventually be forced to use it.
As for my name, its based off of the only thing some kid that was passed out on the lawn in a drunken stupor back in high school could manage to say.
As for my name, its based off of the only thing some kid that was passed out on the lawn in a drunken stupor back in high school could manage to say.
darklife41
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For the record, the only driver problems I'm having is that I cannot see my other hard drive on my system from Vista (RAID 0 array). Also most of my games won't work with Vista. Most of the Apps have been fine.
Yesterday I installed an x6400 on this system and overclocked it to 2.8GHz. Both Vista RC1 and beta 2 are still slow compared to XP Pro on this system, regardless of which interface I use. I have an RTM version of Vista Ultimate on the way. Will post back as to whether that's any smoother/faster.
Yesterday I installed an x6400 on this system and overclocked it to 2.8GHz. Both Vista RC1 and beta 2 are still slow compared to XP Pro on this system, regardless of which interface I use. I have an RTM version of Vista Ultimate on the way. Will post back as to whether that's any smoother/faster.
Slobogob
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I think it's funny how the Author(Slobogob) is calling the readers of this review, err, blog, no, diary, (yeah, that's it,) a tool.
Welcome to THG's new policy. Insult your readers. They'll keep coming back for more......
:idea: Why don't you write a real REVIEW about Vista, it's features, etc.
Me too. If i got a quarter for every (obviously) wrong asumption that is reposted as a fact i´d be a rich man.
Given that, regarding to some people here, i´m on THGs payroll now, that blog has a really high quality standard considering my salary. It´s probably the best price/performance rating that could ever be achieved. :lol:
From what I read of the article it isn't something I am interested in following. Not testing out the new interface was IMO silly.
I am not interested really in how it is like XP. I am more interested in how it is different than XP. I am sure Microsoft didn't give it to him just so he could write a about how he made it as much like "XP Classic" (ie Windows 95/98) as he could and had a cold and trouble getting it from DHL.
What is NEW?
What is different?
What is better?
What is worse?
Is that so hard?
I am not interested really in how it is like XP. I am more interested in how it is different than XP. I am sure Microsoft didn't give it to him just so he could write a about how he made it as much like "XP Classic" (ie Windows 95/98) as he could and had a cold and trouble getting it from DHL.
What is NEW?
What is different?
What is better?
What is worse?
Is that so hard?
You know, I just created an account on Toms just to reply to some of the stuff that I have read here. A few points that I'd like to make, with me first pointing out that yes, I realize it's a diary, not a review, so one must not expect a comprehensive review here. But should the diary owner not ask themselves at some point "wow, Microsoft is giving me a fully loaded laptop with the new operating system, with a sleek new interface (as well as plumbing) for me to test-drive". Does one not feel any responsibility to maybe try out the new features instead of immediately changing everything to classic view? Maybe, maybe not. We can all do what we want, right? None of my business right? Opinions make the world go around, correct? However, this article is on the front page of Toms Hardware. If you are writing articles that many folks are going to read, and are given a test system to evaluate for free (!!!) than at least TRY! Take some responsibility for your readers out there! Consider the audience!
Listen folks, we all know that as one gets older, one gets into a comfort zone with what one is familiar with, and begins to fears change. God knows those old-school people that still use DOS or a UNIX-based shell without GUI and think it's the only way to fly. The thing is, for those that take the time to not be afraid of a learning curve, then one might find that new interfaces are actually an improvement. Heck, maybe the author might find out that the original Win95 interface isn't the best way to go! Why not try a new way of organizing the desktop? When you stop trying new things and start clinging to the old ways, you've just become "old". Yes I am over 30, that is no reason to retire to Win95 just yet. Sure productivity might go down a bit while one learns, but then, who knows, it might increase later. Or heck, offer a refreshing change. Change is good. But even then, this is only a suggestion, and people will have good reasons to keep in classic mode for the OS. But does it belong on Toms?
Again, you want to be on Toms on the front page then please, at least try for the readership. It was a frustrating article to read, watching everything get switched to classical view. For the nay-sayers that tell me "go elsewhere, then! Go find a review somewhere else, Supe!!!", do you think Toms Hardware wants that? Tell the readership to look elsewhere? No you know they don't. This is no disrespect to the author, nothing personal, but if it's a public article, then it should invite public opinion (and I think we know what I feel at this point!)
So, hopefully part 2 uses the new interface. I'd like to know what a front-page author thinks of the INTERFACE as well as the plumbing.
Supe
Listen folks, we all know that as one gets older, one gets into a comfort zone with what one is familiar with, and begins to fears change. God knows those old-school people that still use DOS or a UNIX-based shell without GUI and think it's the only way to fly. The thing is, for those that take the time to not be afraid of a learning curve, then one might find that new interfaces are actually an improvement. Heck, maybe the author might find out that the original Win95 interface isn't the best way to go! Why not try a new way of organizing the desktop? When you stop trying new things and start clinging to the old ways, you've just become "old". Yes I am over 30, that is no reason to retire to Win95 just yet. Sure productivity might go down a bit while one learns, but then, who knows, it might increase later. Or heck, offer a refreshing change. Change is good. But even then, this is only a suggestion, and people will have good reasons to keep in classic mode for the OS. But does it belong on Toms?
Again, you want to be on Toms on the front page then please, at least try for the readership. It was a frustrating article to read, watching everything get switched to classical view. For the nay-sayers that tell me "go elsewhere, then! Go find a review somewhere else, Supe!!!", do you think Toms Hardware wants that? Tell the readership to look elsewhere? No you know they don't. This is no disrespect to the author, nothing personal, but if it's a public article, then it should invite public opinion (and I think we know what I feel at this point!)
So, hopefully part 2 uses the new interface. I'd like to know what a front-page author thinks of the INTERFACE as well as the plumbing.
Supe
darklife41
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So I've been running the RTM version of Vista Ultimate on my system now for a week.
First impression: The Gigabyte drivers no longer crash the OS and I can now see my RAID array with XP on it.
Second impression: It's no faster than RC1 or Beta 2 was. Still dog slow. EG: I save some emails to folders for reference. With Outlook '07 (another nice looking program that performs like crap), XP has between 5 - 15 seconds of lag when saving these files, where as Vista Ultimate has between 10 - 30 seconds of lag for performing the same task. That's just unacceptable to me.
Third impression: I see no difference other than the drivers working from RC1, nor Beta 2 for that matter. Whatever improvements that were made are not obvious nor performance enhancing.
Fourth impression: I do like the integrated backup feature that XP never had, although our server can do all of that already.
Fifth impression: Upon trying to burn a music CD a few songs errored with improper licenses. Now that's something I've never gotten before with any OS and still don't get burning the same music CD from XP. Apparently the RIA was an investor in Vista since it serves their purposes more than the end user.
And again for the record, I've used the new interface for 3 months, and now for a week with the RTM version. It's nothing to write home about in my opinion. Since the interface is just a new map to the same old functions (and a few new ones) I see no benefit to using it nor reviewing it. As I said before, it's nothing but a new way of doing the same old things. Now if you're learning a computer for the 1st time, I believe you'll find the new interface harder to learn because things are, in my opinion, put in stupid places and not where you would expect to find them. However with the classic interface, most things are still found in the same place. It was a more logical approach, again, in my opinion.
Another mention, I went from an 805D (2.66GHz) overclocked to 4.1GHz to a Core 2 Duo 6400 overclocked to 2.8GHz. In benchmarks the Core 2 Duo is significantly faster (1000 3dmarks in '05 and 700 3dmarks in '06). However for performance in the real world, there is little noticeable difference. Installing and opening programs with the C2D is almost identical in times to the dual core cpu. Since both CPUs are highly overclocked, I would have expected more from the C2D.
The Vista Ultimate is paid for and will remain on my system for quite some time. I expect to learn more about the OS over time, and who knows, maybe my opinion will change at some point. At this point, I see no good reason for anyone to upgrade to it unless they want a fancy looking desktop. Your money would be better spent in other areas. The biggest claim from MS is the increased security since its build on NET framework, however there are already exploits with updates available. I'm not convinced that its going to be any different than continuing support for XP for this reason. But hey, it's your money so waste it as you see fit.
We're also getting a couple copies of Vista Business Edition in the next few weeks. Will post if that (with less crap running in the backround) is a faster OS than Ultimate. I don't intend to test Home Edition in great detail as it won't work with our server, but we will test it if/when a customer asks for it. 🙂
First impression: The Gigabyte drivers no longer crash the OS and I can now see my RAID array with XP on it.
Second impression: It's no faster than RC1 or Beta 2 was. Still dog slow. EG: I save some emails to folders for reference. With Outlook '07 (another nice looking program that performs like crap), XP has between 5 - 15 seconds of lag when saving these files, where as Vista Ultimate has between 10 - 30 seconds of lag for performing the same task. That's just unacceptable to me.
Third impression: I see no difference other than the drivers working from RC1, nor Beta 2 for that matter. Whatever improvements that were made are not obvious nor performance enhancing.
Fourth impression: I do like the integrated backup feature that XP never had, although our server can do all of that already.
Fifth impression: Upon trying to burn a music CD a few songs errored with improper licenses. Now that's something I've never gotten before with any OS and still don't get burning the same music CD from XP. Apparently the RIA was an investor in Vista since it serves their purposes more than the end user.
And again for the record, I've used the new interface for 3 months, and now for a week with the RTM version. It's nothing to write home about in my opinion. Since the interface is just a new map to the same old functions (and a few new ones) I see no benefit to using it nor reviewing it. As I said before, it's nothing but a new way of doing the same old things. Now if you're learning a computer for the 1st time, I believe you'll find the new interface harder to learn because things are, in my opinion, put in stupid places and not where you would expect to find them. However with the classic interface, most things are still found in the same place. It was a more logical approach, again, in my opinion.
Another mention, I went from an 805D (2.66GHz) overclocked to 4.1GHz to a Core 2 Duo 6400 overclocked to 2.8GHz. In benchmarks the Core 2 Duo is significantly faster (1000 3dmarks in '05 and 700 3dmarks in '06). However for performance in the real world, there is little noticeable difference. Installing and opening programs with the C2D is almost identical in times to the dual core cpu. Since both CPUs are highly overclocked, I would have expected more from the C2D.
The Vista Ultimate is paid for and will remain on my system for quite some time. I expect to learn more about the OS over time, and who knows, maybe my opinion will change at some point. At this point, I see no good reason for anyone to upgrade to it unless they want a fancy looking desktop. Your money would be better spent in other areas. The biggest claim from MS is the increased security since its build on NET framework, however there are already exploits with updates available. I'm not convinced that its going to be any different than continuing support for XP for this reason. But hey, it's your money so waste it as you see fit.
We're also getting a couple copies of Vista Business Edition in the next few weeks. Will post if that (with less crap running in the backround) is a faster OS than Ultimate. I don't intend to test Home Edition in great detail as it won't work with our server, but we will test it if/when a customer asks for it. 🙂
hergieburbur
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Just for the hell of it, I tried burning a couple CDs using Vista. One was files I ripped directly from a CD, one was songs I got from a newsgroup. Vista didn't complain about either of them, and other than the fact that it takes about ten times longer than Nero to burn, I had no trouble.
Did I mention Windows Media Player SUCKS? And WMP11 SUCKS even worse. I hate the the first thing I see is an attempt to get me to buy music from an M$ partner.
Did I mention Windows Media Player SUCKS? And WMP11 SUCKS even worse. I hate the the first thing I see is an attempt to get me to buy music from an M$ partner.
commanderspockep
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So will it be just as useless as the XP version of backwards program compatibility? The list of dos, win95, and win98 programs that won't run on XP is endless.
shambling
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Ahhhh classic mode. How I love thee.
Sure the new features are great. But who the heck needs transparent windows? :O The 3d alt-tab feature is cool though... if I feel like wasting $100 worth of ram to dedicate to that feature 😛
Ok that aside, I look forward to playing with vista more at work, and hopefully seeing if it will ever be worth upgrading to.
Sure the new features are great. But who the heck needs transparent windows? :O The 3d alt-tab feature is cool though... if I feel like wasting $100 worth of ram to dedicate to that feature 😛
Ok that aside, I look forward to playing with vista more at work, and hopefully seeing if it will ever be worth upgrading to.
darklife41
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I have WMP 11 on both OS's. Haven't had a problem with it myself, but only use it for viewing vids. I rip/burn/play music with Winamp Pro 5.32.
I've only burned about a dozen CDs on Vista to date, and only a few songs (3) errored due to licensing so far, but these same songs burn just fine on XP using the same version of Winamp. Go figure.
I've got 21,000+ mp3s, but I know which songs/artist are causing problems so far. More about them on PM if anyone is interested.
I've only burned about a dozen CDs on Vista to date, and only a few songs (3) errored due to licensing so far, but these same songs burn just fine on XP using the same version of Winamp. Go figure.
I've got 21,000+ mp3s, but I know which songs/artist are causing problems so far. More about them on PM if anyone is interested.
jedifenner
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http://activewin.com/reviews/software/operating-sys/vista/
Here is a decent review, for those who are looking for actual technical content regarding Vista and its new features.
Here is a decent review, for those who are looking for actual technical content regarding Vista and its new features.
hergieburbur
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There are a few good articles over at CNet's techrepublic that detail similar things. Most of their editors came to a similar conclusion to mine. That Vista is at this point basically a $200 - $400 SP for XP with new eye candy. But thats just my personal opinion (of course, from the blogs I've read, it appears pretty common).
Further, I thinks its funny that people people have been touting enhanced security as Vista's greatest feature, but I have not seen any articles that actually attempt to break through the security in a determined fashion, like hackers will. They seem to cite M$'s word, IE7 (which still isn't as good as Firefox), and the UAC warnings as proof of new security.
I am eager to what happens when someone attempts to really put it through the ringer.
Further, I thinks its funny that people people have been touting enhanced security as Vista's greatest feature, but I have not seen any articles that actually attempt to break through the security in a determined fashion, like hackers will. They seem to cite M$'s word, IE7 (which still isn't as good as Firefox), and the UAC warnings as proof of new security.
I am eager to what happens when someone attempts to really put it through the ringer.
darklife41
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Yea, but even a dumb person is only going to read the same old popup windows so many times before they either ignore them or turn them off completely. Wasted resources in my opinion.
hergieburbur
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Check out this other thread I started about the economic impact of Vista:
Vista to Generate Billions.
I'm interested to see what people think.
Vista to Generate Billions.
I'm interested to see what people think.
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