Windows XP vs. Vista: The Benchmark Rundown

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for n00bing it up in linux, I would suggest Ubuntu for anyone wanting to experiment w/o needing a nerd-degree in sys-admin. It has a simple install that is familiar to windows users, recognizes all current and old hardware that I have seen. I have even installed it on Dell laptops! (laptops have proprietary hardware that is notorious for needing special drivers) It will setup a dual boot scenario for those not wanting to dump windows entirely.

Frankly, it is the easiest n00b-friendly linux I have ever seen. (not that I am an expert at all, but still)

Give it a look if you are interested.
 
Human Nature... That's what this thread should have been called. It was the same thing when XP came out. I squeezed 98SE to the last till I couldn't stand the constant random reboots in 98. By the time I switched to XP, SP2 came out. Before 98SE I stayed with 95B. Before 95B I stayed with 3.11.

Point is, it doesn't matter if Vista is a resource hog. The technology is going to have to compensate for the OS. I don't think Linux is going to take over the world as far as the OS to have. The world is Microsoft dependant. Period. There are plug-ins, add-ons and patches out there that can make a linux-based system compatible with most of today's applications. Problem is, not everyone is able to implement it.

I know people here in Germany still using DOS-based applications. Why, because the platform is stable. If you're familiar in DOS then you know.

I'm going to wait until I can afford a new notebook and seeing that it'll be Vista that's when I'll move. I'll keep my current system (dual-boot) with XP and SuSE Linux.
 
Vista is a bad concept. Okay, let's be fair.

In most respects, Vista is the best OS M$ has concocted thus far, except for unHolywood forcing them to ram their idiotic Digital Restrictions Management (I know what DRM actually stands for, and I consider that a severe lie - unless it's the record labels' and/or the studios' rights we're talking about) down the collective throat of their client base.

Enjoy.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71738-0.html
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=882
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/%7Epgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

EDIT: With all previous M$ OSes, I waited for service packs before using, so that I could use a stable, reliable and fast OS. As far as Vista is concerned, I'll wait for my competence with Linux to develop properly before switching from XP to Ubuntu or something. M$ has lost me as a customer, thanks to DRM idiocy.
 
sure, there are "better" distros out there over ubuntu. I only suggested it for linux neophytes that want to get their feet wet. After a while you may want/need a different distro for better game support etc... but ubuntu is a great (the best?) start for the linux-phobic.
 
I tried Ubuntu...I'm an ultra-n00b I guess because installing crap was a pain in the @$$...not to mention there aren't drivers for my X-Fi card. So I dumped it...and that was a pain too.
ANYWAY, back to Vista.
I don't understand what ppl are bitching about.

(1) Why are we bitchin' about 'heavy' hardware it takes? If you are any kind of an enthusiast, you've already got the damn hardware you need. Also, if you're one of those people who like to get things asap like Vista, chances are you're the same way with latest hardware. It seems to me your personality is what determines if you like Vista or not. If you've got dated hardware and a dated OS, you're not going to accept Vista period (at least for some time). If you've got the latest hardware and love to be at the front of the line, then you've probably already ordered Vista.

(2) Do any of you people bitching about DRM know anything about music business? I saw someone quote earlier in the thread that music "is for the ppl and once you worry about money it goes to shit" (from some musician). (Which by the way, he probably stated as a marketing/sales statement to raise his public image) Until a band starts touring, selling tickets, selling swag, CD/music sales are their ONLY source of income. Even when they start selling CDs, they don't see A PENNY of it until their advance from the record label is paid off. Also...if they don't sell any records, the label drops them. If the label drops them, they don't have any financial backers for a tour, thus meaning no ticket sales or merch. I actually graduated with a Music Industry major which why this is a big issue for me. I am NOT defending record labels, and I KNOW that most of artists income comes from touring/sales. But really...wtf kind of fan are you if you download their music for free? Help them pay off their "loan" (advance) from their label for god sakes. If you're such a fan, dropping $15 for their CD won't kill you. This is why we have "one hit wonders"...because their label doesn't see good record sales, and they drop them before they have a chance to get out their. Again I'm not defending the labels, but paying for CD's/digital music is one great way to really ensure your artist's career.

(3) Finally, I say the same thing as everyone else...Ppl were crying when XP came out I'm sure. They cry that Vista isn't customizable enough...Not 'power-user' oriented enough. That's probably true. However, if you work an IT job such as myself...I get enough of scripts, servers, commands, and all that crap at work. When I come home I WANT something ridiculously simple to use. Vista is not a bad OS, its just trying to make things simpler for everyone. (And copy Mac OSx at the same time). If you don't like it, go use a bare bones dist. of Linux then you'll be crying for simplicity.

(Wow that was a big rant)
 
I'm sorry, but I see nothing to inspire me to spend the bucks for Vista, go through some form of learning curve, and find out some of my old favorites don't work.

My machine is working fine right now. I'd like to keep it that way.

Bill I
 
I don't have an issue with DRM per sae, but I do have an issue with companies telling me how many and which devices I can play my music on, attempting to monitor my music listening behaviour (Sony comes to mind), and restricting my right to make a backup of a CD (or a "mix" CD.)

DRM is fine in theory but it has a number of flaws. First off, you give an enormous amount of power to self-serving interest groups and companies that will undoubtly only consider what is in their best interest and not their customers'. The other problem is that DRM only hinders the people that actually purchase the music, videos, etc. Hackers and pirates already have ways around most DRM schemes so it doesn't affect them.

Another reason I don't have an issue "sampling" music from the internet is that here in Canada we have to pay a surcharge/tax on all CD media because we apparently have no legitimate use for CDs other than to copy music. Who would ever want to backup files, photos, or home vides onto CD/DVD! So if I'm being charged for something I don't do and, in essence, being labelled a pirate, then I might as well get my money's worth. Let me be clear about something, if I like a song or band, I always purchase their music to show support. Period.

Then there is that old argument that CDs were supposed to bring down the price of music but instead have raised it. Most bands only have one or two good songs on their CDs anyhow. I've been suggesting for years that music companies allow single-song downloads and now that it is finally happening, I think it is helping to reduce music "theft", regardless of what the recording companies say. I'm quite happy to spend .50 - .99 cents on only the songs I like. Once again though, the DRM schemes in place attempt to make it very difficult to transport or otherwise freely use the music that you pay for. It's like the music companies are trying to shoot themselves in their collective feet.

In my opinion, the more restrictive they make DRM, the more they are driving legitimate customers to piracy. I'm sorry but I should be allowed to do whatever I want with the music and videos I purchase, short of sharing them on the internet or making copies and selling them (both of which I have never done.)

Vista's DRM is primarly for HD and Blu-Ray DVDs. I don't see why that is such a big deal for some people.

(2) Do any of you people bitching about DRM know anything about music business? I saw someone quote earlier in the thread that music "is for the ppl and once you worry about money it goes to ****" (from some musician). (Which by the way, he probably stated as a marketing/sales statement to raise his public image) Until a band starts touring, selling tickets, selling swag, CD/music sales are their ONLY source of income. Even when they start selling CDs, they don't see A PENNY of it until their advance from the record label is paid off. Also...if they don't sell any records, the label drops them. If the label drops them, they don't have any financial backers for a tour, thus meaning no ticket sales or merch. I actually graduated with a Music Industry major which why this is a big issue for me. I am NOT defending record labels, and I KNOW that most of artists income comes from touring/sales. But really...wtf kind of fan are you if you download their music for free? Help them pay off their "loan" (advance) from their label for god sakes. If you're such a fan, dropping $15 for their CD won't kill you. This is why we have "one hit wonders"...because their label doesn't see good record sales, and they drop them before they have a chance to get out their. Again I'm not defending the labels, but paying for CD's/digital music is one great way to really ensure your artist's career.
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It is really interesting to see all of the opinions from people who do different things on their PC.

I think that I know what the real problem is here. We all feel forced into transitioning to Vista. We have to ask ourselves if it is necessary to go through huge expensive transitions like this. For me the answer is no. I've used Vista RC1 for a while and last night decided to wipe its partition and install 32 bit XP for legacy support (since x64 still doesn't have full driver support from many 3rd party vendors). I'll be sticking with XP for a long time.

Also, it might be a surprise to those who don't use macs but I have a 6 year old machine (G4 @ 800MHz) running OSX Tiger with 768 MB of 133MHz SDRAM. No hangups or problems whatsoever. We'll also see OSX on a phone soon. All the features you will be waiting for to work in Vista already have been working in OSX for a long time now and its efficient use of resources makes this possible.

I see MS as a disgrace to the engineering community. It seems while every other engineer is trying to figure out how to cut down on resource consumption (especially in the automotive industry) MS is outright telling us that their new OS will consume far more resources than anything before it. Now we also see that performance is down from before?! That would be like ford saying their next truck will get you 5 mpg and you can't tow as much with it as the previous model.

As for all the people who are complaining about DRM, I feel your pain. If you are like me you pay for your music and movies and get the shaft cause it will only play on one player (m4a anybody?). I don't really mind but there is one thing that is for certain (and this doesn't apply to all of you):

THOSE WHO HAVE STOLEN ANY MEDIA HAVE NO ONE BUT THEMSELVES TO BLAME.
 
Aye, forced we may be. I know MS already stopped support for SP1...and SP2 cut off is in a couple years I think (? May be wrong ?) I will say, I am perfectly fine with XP, I really haven't had many instability issues except a few blue screens when I'm playing a demanding game.
I actually ordered Vista last night. Why? Although I am fine with XP, I do desire something fresh. Something pleasant, pretty, and stable. (Which I guess Vista is supposed to be more stable...don't know how true that is or not) I know I've got sick and tired of having to have my floppy ready for my SATA drivers any time I want to format...Vista doesn't need that crap. You can also locate anything you need off of USB drives at the installation menu too. These are just things that XP SHOULD"VE been able to do. It's a shame that we have to pay more $ for the ability.
But I dunno guys...I got Home Premium, because I don't really need the features offered in Business or Ultimate...I got it from ZipZoomFly for $120 OEM 64-bit edition. I'm no rich man, but I don't think $120 is THAT bad. (Btw, I've never seen the sense in buying Retail. They claim you can't switch computers or have a new motherboard...but one 8 min call to Microsoft is all it takes.) $120 for a fresh new OS, which should be used for the next 5 years at least. Sure, it's going to take some learning and getting used to...But like I said, I personally am looking for something fresh. I got tired of XP.
 
I see MS as a disgrace to the engineering community. It seems while every other engineer is trying to figure out how to cut down on resource consumption (especially in the automotive industry) MS is outright telling us that their new OS will consume far more resources than anything before it. Now we also see that performance is down from before?! That would be like ford saying their next truck will get you 5 mpg and you can't tow as much with it as the previous model.
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I understand what you are getting at but what you are missing is that Vista can be tweaked and trimmed down for the poweruser, if necessary. Vista doesn't have to consume that many resources, it only does so because it is trying to be the best of everything to everyone. My father uses Max OSX and OS9. Some of his software doesn't work on OS9 (without having to pay for an upgrade) so he has to maintain two boot ups. His OSX install is also slowly grinding to a halt and has numerous issues. It isn't pretty. My XP Pro SP2 install, Vista RTM, and Win2k3 have survived very well through all my development work and hammer on them. My point is that I don't think you can simply say "Mac OSX is better" just because that is what you're more familiar and comfortable with. Give me technical facts and reasons why you think it is better and I bet XP and Vista support the same features.

From a developer's perspective, Microsoft is the company to beat. There are very few companies out there that can put together development kits and tools as solid or as concise as Microsoft's. I started programming Win16 with C back in the day and have seen the great steps forward with Win32 API and .NET. Microsoft knows how to support developers.

I definitely agree with you on one point though, no one has to upgrade to Vista; Windows XP will remain a viable OS for quite a few years.
 
Just to provide an alternate view to the m$ bashing...

No one is forcing anyone to upgrade. XP will be supported for quite some time, count on it. Look how long win2000 has been going.

Ignoring the bad correlation with vehicle gas mileage and computer resource usage, if you look at some of the things vista is doing it is actually better than XP. First, when you fire up a game you get the same performance from the hardware whether the new-hotness aero interface is maxed out or you are running the old-and-busted plain interface. (look here) XP is hardly that way as any new thing on the desktop "features" end impacts 3d performance a bit.

Looking at the stated goals at different times from m$, you see that under normal operation so much of the resources in contemporary machines sits unused in XP... vista actually uses it. (video card for the desktop, more ram for better caching etc.) This is actually the same argument I heard from an Apple rep speaking on the benefits of osX vs. winXP. He explained to me that it was one of the goals of osX; use those resources. Kindof a waste of hardware when it just sits there. As an engineer I see your point on efficiency but would rather use it if it is there than try not to and let it collect dust. To quote a wise professor from days gone by: "Memory is cheap... program it for what you will have, not what you had"

In all of these things, in order to actually use it (hardware) you need to make sure most have it. Thus the higher requirements for vista. On any machine from the last year you really should have 512 megs of ram or more, and IMO a gig is minimum. Vista is created for those machines. Not the athlonXP 1500+ with 256 megs of ram and a geforce3 video card. (not saying anything about your g4, just making a point) Even winXP struggles on that level of system. To make a piece of software that scales over systems from that many levels of performance is insanely difficult. You end up with something that kills the old ones or never really uses the new ones.

sure, you can turn off aero, caching and the lot... you can "dumb" vista down to a level that will run on a lesser system. (not as low as XP mind you) But at that point you might as well stay with XP. (maybe that was your point? dunno...)

Honestly, we need to move forward. If you don't want to upgrade the old computer... then don't and stay on XP. Simple decision IMO. Is that m$'s fault that you dont want to move from XP? nope.

I agree w/ you on the drm thing though. 8)
 
It's too early to tell how fast Vista is going to be with gaming and a little early on the driver front. To do comparisons now while the Vista drivers are so immature is pointless really. I would like to see how it compares in 6 months or so.

Ultimately we'll all go to Vista, it is a fantastic program and it's not just about how it looks. I don't like Microsoft as much as everyone else but we will all be using it eventually........even the naysayers.

If you run the 32 Bit version for the time being compatibility will be much better, most of the issues that I can see are with the 64 Bit version.
 
DRM has definitely effected music playback of my MP3s. Good luck installing your favorite file sharing program and getting anything to work from them.
.
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A friend told me there is no issue what so ever :wink:

You should believe him as well...
I've even back up a few kids DVD's with no issues.

My work PC is a P4 3Ghz and it runs fine with 1Gig of ram. Yes it's faster on my home PC but it's in pretty high-end. The screansavers really blow at work though...

I don't need to rely on someone else's advice. I've been running Vista on my own systems and seen what DRM does. My experience differs to yours...er.. your friend's. :wink:

Cool then tell me how to make the DRM create problems on my PC. You must have multiple examples to be so frustrated. While I know this seems smart A$$'d but I really want to see the problems for myself.
 
I also have a friend who has been running it. That's what caused me to buy the full version of it this week.

He has no problems with DRM running anything on his system and wouldn't go back to XP.
 
I understand what you are getting at but what you are missing is that Vista can be tweaked and trimmed down for the poweruser, if necessary. Vista doesn't have to consume that many resources, it only does so because it is trying to be the best of everything to everyone. My father uses Max OSX and OS9. Some of his software doesn't work on OS9 (without having to pay for an upgrade) so he has to maintain two boot ups. His OSX install is also slowly grinding to a halt and has numerous issues. It isn't pretty. My XP Pro SP2 install, Vista RTM, and Win2k3 have survived very well through all my development work and hammer on them. My point is that I don't think you can simply say "Mac OSX is better" just because that is what you're more familiar and comfortable with. Give me technical facts and reasons why you think it is better and I bet XP and Vista support the same features.

From a developer's perspective, Microsoft is the company to beat. There are very few companies out there that can put together development kits and tools as solid or as concise as Microsoft's. I started programming Win16 with C back in the day and have seen the great steps forward with Win32 API and .NET. Microsoft knows how to support developers.

I definitely agree with you on one point though, no one has to upgrade to Vista; Windows XP will remain a viable OS for quite a few years.
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I'm not saying MacOSX is better. I've always been a user of both platforms and it just seems like MS gives us the shaft on every upgrade. I am still in favor of XP as the ultimate OS of today because of its vast amount of hardware support and software development tools/community. If there was anyone who should NOT complain it's me. I can get any version of Vista for free right now from my MSDN account but I choose not to. I'm liking OSX more and more with all this Vista hoopla going on and the number one reason is that it just seems like MS is trying to get our $ and not our respect. When XP goes unsupported and games don't run on it anymore it will be a sad day unless MS starts following a different business model.

I have a EE degree and a job that require the use of XP and tons of tools/SDKs that run on it and I am currently getting a CS degree in games programming. I'll be taking D3D courses soon and I'm sure it will be a chore to deal with all of the changes going on. I can't wait (sarcasm). Wouldn't it be so much easier if the local colleges gave a course in OpenGL or how about XCode? Why should MS be able to own everyone like this and put us all through misery and get away with it?

I will always be a code developer but on which platform is beggining to look unclear.
 
D3D9 and 10 aren't really anymore complex than the OpenGL API.

Why should MS be able to own everyone like this and put us all through misery and get away with it?
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What misery would that be? Vista is a great operating system so far, in my opinion, both from a user's and developer's perspective. I've been using the RTM since November and besides VS2005 having a few issues (even I'll admit that was a pretty goof up by MS), everything is quite straightforward. I'm just trying to get my head around all the new features.

I'm very keen to get cracking on Longhorn Server...
 
D3D9 and 10 aren't really anymore complex than the OpenGL API.


Why should MS be able to own everyone like this and put us all through misery and get away with it?
Click to expand...

What misery would that be? Vista is a great operating system so far, in my opinion, both from a user's and developer's perspective. I've been using the RTM since November and besides VS2005 having a few issues (even I'll admit that was a pretty goof up by MS), everything is quite straightforward. I'm just trying to get my head around all the new features.

I'm very keen to get cracking on Longhorn Server...

Go to google.com and search for "vista issues".

I have a hard time believing that all of the OpenGL and Firefox issues are a coincidence. The most hilarious issues are the ones that involve MS's own software not working properly on Vista. If you ask me, it's a joke.
 
My experience with Vista has actually been pretty good. Sure, it's more resource-intensive than XP, but that's because IT'S A NEW OS. It's not a big deal if you have a decent computer, like many enthusiasts on here do. And for those who aren't enthusiasts, chances are they don't really care about Vista and will stick with whatever they have until they buy a new computer from Dell, which will have Vista on it already. Quit complaining, we've heard it.

Compatibility will improve as time goes on. My hardware has drivers for Vista. X1900XT, Sound Blaster X-Fi, etc etc. I didn't even need to install the nForce drivers for my motherboard like I did with XP; Vista picked up my networking and my SATA drives on first boot, like Linux. Go Microsoft.

Programs run fine. XP's installed on my Raptor, so it's extremely zippy. Vista's on a regular old 250GB SATA drive, and it boots about as quickly, maybe a little slower. Runs fast, even with Aero on. DX9 games run great, so far I've tried World of Warcraft and UT2004. Both run flawlessly. Even the addons for WoW work great, Cosmos and tBag. Patching was a little tricky, maybe.

The Blizzard Downloader doesn't give the patches admin privileges to install themselves, so when they try to install they can't find a specific file. The trick is to download the installers from FileFront or something and burn them to a CD or DVD, then just install them manually, with admin usage. Easy fix.

Nero works, Avast works, PowerDVD works, PowerISO works, Spybot works, gVim works, Firefox works (the only bug is that when the bookmarks toolbar is enabled the page is jumpy. The fix is to disable it, then it works fine), Thunderbird works, Skype and Gaim work, and so on and so on. Azeurus works ok, but I'm not sure whether it's the program or the JRE itself. I'll try installing them again tomorrow. Office 2003 works perfectly. Not bad for a brand-new OS.

Have yet to try the ReadyBoost feature. My iPod doesn't work, and my flash drive is in use. Might pick up another one, but I doubt it.

All in all, not bad. I feel no need to replace XP, but I doubt I will for a while.
 
XP is still the choice for compatibility and gaming however for the rest of us Vista is the way to go. And don't bother telling me about Linux. Been there, done that and got the Red Hat Revolution T-shirt. One thing I know about Linux is that it should be user friendly in another 4 years or so. Oh and about that Mac ? Yeah. Gave up the ghost on OS7.5.
 
Note that even though it takes more RAM to run, it's caching more in the RAM to make it seem as if it's running at least as fast as Vista. General usage doesn't seem any slower and other than games I doubt anyone will notice a huge difference. I installed Roxio 9 this morning and the RoxWatch utility pinned CPU usage to near 100% and RAM topped 700MB while it was indexing my files. Takes quite a while. But I kept using the systemfor the basic stuff like surfing, chatting, browsing the USENET and so forth. As to optimizing it even more, I don't think it would be too effective. You can switch the GUI back to Windows Classic mode, turn off System Restore and these might have some minimal effect but other than that I wouldn't believe you could realize any appreciable gains.
 
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