Wizard + Cleric prestige class

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Hi!
Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
Thanks in advance,
Nik

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Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
> Hi!
> Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
> Thanks in advance,
> Nik
>

You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist?

> --
> Diese Signatur wurde von MesNews automatisch erstellt.
> Webseite http://www.mesnews.net

Aha.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote :
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Aha 😀 !
>
> > Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
> >> Hi!
> >> Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
>
> You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist?
> Hm, there must be a hidden flaw in Mystic Theurge.
> Advancing in both classes at once just sound so good.
> Ok, no bonus feats, slower save progression.
> Well, maybe mystic theurge is too weak and it would die soon or start
> healing its own wounds every round.
> Has anyone played a mystic theurge? Any infos on it?
> [snip]

There is no hidden flaw in the mystic theurge. The thing is that in
order to take your first level in it, you must already be a Wiz 3/Clr
3. This means that you gave up 3 levels in each spellcasting class.
In addition, you do not gain bonus feat progressions, and your save
progression isn't as good.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Has anyone actually tried one of these? I think one you got going a
bit it would be quite a potent combo. Toss in one or two of those
feats that raises your caster level and you're all set.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote :
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Aha 😀 !

> Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>> Hi!
>> Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?

You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist?
Hm, there must be a hidden flaw in Mystic Theurge.
Advancing in both classes at once just sound so good.
Ok, no bonus feats, slower save progression.
Well, maybe mystic theurge is too weak and it would die soon or start
healing its own wounds every round.
Has anyone played a mystic theurge? Any infos on it?

Btw, a nice hypertext version of the srd:
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm

Well, maybe there are some nice prestige classes that an elf with both
divine (cleric) and arcane (mage) classes can take without needing to
take a 3rd class. Just like the prestige classes for monks which
emulate multiclassing without incurring multiclassing penalties.


I got a pretty good list of feats
(http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm), containing the info which
book contained them.
I have not found a likewise list for prestige classes so far.

>>--
>>Diese Signatur wurde von MesNews automatisch erstellt.
>>Webseite http://www.mesnews.net

>Aha.
Tja, erwiiischt 🙂

--
Yes, Yes, more of the DnD flavor.
MC Beholder on the mike, DJ Mindflayer kicking it massive
 
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:44:45 +0200, Nikolaus Wagner wrote:

> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote :
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Aha 😀 !
>
>> Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>> Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
>
> You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist? Hm, there must be a
> hidden flaw in Mystic Theurge. Advancing in both classes at once just
> sound so good. Ok, no bonus feats, slower save progression. Well, maybe
> mystic theurge is too weak and it would die soon or start healing its own
> wounds every round.
> Has anyone played a mystic theurge? Any infos on it?
>
> Btw, a nice hypertext version of the srd:
> http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm
>
> Well, maybe there are some nice prestige classes that an elf with both
> divine (cleric) and arcane (mage) classes can take without needing to take
> a 3rd class. Just like the prestige classes for monks which emulate
> multiclassing without incurring multiclassing penalties.
>
>
> I got a pretty good list of feats
> (http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm), containing the info which book
> contained them.
> I have not found a likewise list for prestige classes so far.
>
>>>--
>>>Diese Signatur wurde von MesNews automatisch erstellt. Webseite
>>>http://www.mesnews.net
>
>>Aha.
> Tja, erwiiischt 🙂

The presitge class list found a third of the way down on the attached link
to the WoTC boards appears to be up-to-date or close to it.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197541

Crispus
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote:
> Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>> Hi!
>> Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Nik
>>
>
> You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist?

True Necromancer from Libris Mortis
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"WDS" <Bill@seurer.net> wrote in message
news:1126578625.711480.13700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Has anyone actually tried one of these? I think one you got going a
> bit it would be quite a potent combo. Toss in one or two of those
> feats that raises your caster level and you're all set.

They are great support characters, but are nothing compared to a single
class Wizard of Cleric in any other department.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Crispus wrote:
>
> The presitge class list found a third of the way down on the attached
> link to the WoTC boards appears to be up-to-date or close to it.
>
> http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197541

The one I compiled (linked in my signature) is, I believe, completely up-to-date
except perhaps for the last couple of Dragon Magazines, and includes
prerequisites for those prestige classes published in books.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
The geek with roots in Hell!
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

Who do you blame when your kid is a - brat?
Pampered and spoiled like a Siamese - cat?
Blaming the kids is a lie and a - shame!
You know exactly who's - to - blame:
The mother and the father!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Crispus wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:44:45 +0200, Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>
>
>>Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote :
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Aha 😀 !
>>
>>
>>>Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>>Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
>>
>>You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist? Hm, there must be a
>>hidden flaw in Mystic Theurge. Advancing in both classes at once just
>>sound so good. Ok, no bonus feats, slower save progression. Well, maybe
>>mystic theurge is too weak and it would die soon or start healing its own
>>wounds every round.
>>Has anyone played a mystic theurge? Any infos on it?
>>
>>Btw, a nice hypertext version of the srd:
>>http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm
>>
>>Well, maybe there are some nice prestige classes that an elf with both
>>divine (cleric) and arcane (mage) classes can take without needing to take
>>a 3rd class. Just like the prestige classes for monks which emulate
>>multiclassing without incurring multiclassing penalties.
>>
>>
>>I got a pretty good list of feats
>>(http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm), containing the info which book
>>contained them.
>>I have not found a likewise list for prestige classes so far.
>>
>>
>>>>--
>>>>Diese Signatur wurde von MesNews automatisch erstellt. Webseite
>>>>http://www.mesnews.net
>>
>>>Aha.
>>
>>Tja, erwiiischt 🙂
>
>
> The presitge class list found a third of the way down on the attached link
> to the WoTC boards appears to be up-to-date or close to it.
>
> http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197541
>
> Crispus
>

Or here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/prc
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "WDS" <Bill@seurer.net> wrote in message
> news:1126578625.711480.13700@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Has anyone actually tried one of these? I think one you got going a
>>bit it would be quite a potent combo. Toss in one or two of those
>>feats that raises your caster level and you're all set.
>
>
> They are great support characters, but are nothing compared to a single
> class Wizard of Cleric in any other department.
>

My most recent campaign started at 4th level with one character, the
only spellcaster, being a 2/2 cleric/wizard, who intended to go Mystic
Theurge at the earliest opportunity, which is to say 7th level
(cl3/wi3/mt1). That happened recently, so we'll see what effect it will
have on the campaign. As DM, the only real difference it's made so far
is that I still get to use diseases against the party because he doesn't
have 3rd level spells yet. Normally by 5th level diseases are pretty
much useless as party threats unless you're using variant rules. (The
Atlas Games "Nyambe" supplement had rules for really potent diseases
which required caster level checks to eradicate, even with "Remove
Disease." That's something I might consider swiping for use in my
current game.)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
> Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote :
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Aha 😀 !
>
>> Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>> Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
>
>
> You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist?
> Hm, there must be a hidden flaw in Mystic Theurge.
> Advancing in both classes at once just sound so good.
> Ok, no bonus feats, slower save progression.
> Well, maybe mystic theurge is too weak and it would die soon or start
> healing its own wounds every round.
> Has anyone played a mystic theurge? Any infos on it?
>
> Btw, a nice hypertext version of the srd:
> http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm
>
> Well, maybe there are some nice prestige classes that an elf with both
> divine (cleric) and arcane (mage) classes can take without needing to
> take a 3rd class. Just like the prestige classes for monks which emulate
> multiclassing without incurring multiclassing penalties.
>
>
> I got a pretty good list of feats
> (http://www.devinweb.com/featlisting.htm), containing the info which
> book contained them.
> I have not found a likewise list for prestige classes so far.
>
>>> --
>>> Diese Signatur wurde von MesNews automatisch erstellt.
>>> Webseite http://www.mesnews.net
>
>
>> Aha.
>
> Tja, erwiiischt 🙂
>

You might also look at the geomancer from Complete Divine and see if
that strikes your fancy.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Quiggy wrote:
> Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>
>>Lorenz.Lang@gmx.de wrote :
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Aha 😀 !
>>
>>
>>>Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi!
>>>>Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
>>
>>You mean apart from Mystic Theurge and Thaumaturgist?
>>Hm, there must be a hidden flaw in Mystic Theurge.
>>Advancing in both classes at once just sound so good.
>>Ok, no bonus feats, slower save progression.
>>Well, maybe mystic theurge is too weak and it would die soon or start
>>healing its own wounds every round.
>>Has anyone played a mystic theurge? Any infos on it?
>>[snip]
>
>
> There is no hidden flaw in the mystic theurge. The thing is that in
> order to take your first level in it, you must already be a Wiz 3/Clr
> 3. This means that you gave up 3 levels in each spellcasting class.
> In addition, you do not gain bonus feat progressions, and your save
> progression isn't as good.
>

Essentially you end up 1 level's worth of spells behind a single class
caster, but as I said so far that hasn't doomed the party at all. It's
just forced them to use different tactics. The healing gets spread
pretty thin, but since both the ranger and the rogue can use CLW wands,
it's not so bad as all that.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

WDS wrote:
> Has anyone actually tried one of these? I think one you got going a
> bit it would be quite a potent combo. Toss in one or two of those
> feats that raises your caster level and you're all set.
>

I'll let you know how the player likes his character once he gets a few
more levels under his belt. So far at just the first level of it
there's not been a big change, but that will alter at 8th when he casts
as 5/5.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I think that Practised Spellcaster makes the dual class much more
viable. Is the pC aware of the feat?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

WDS wrote:
> I think that Practised Spellcaster makes the dual class much more
> viable. Is the pC aware of the feat?
>

Yes, I mentioned already that I pointed out the feat to the player, but
he didn't seem interested. He's still happy with his 4/4 caster level
and seems more interested in finding a use for his turn undead slots
that will give him more benefit than actually turning undead, as the
lower turning level has only worked about a third of the time for him.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Some Guy" <someguy@thedoor.gov> wrote in message
news:QA7We.17138$sx2.1343@fed1read02...
> WDS wrote:
>> I think that Practised Spellcaster makes the dual class much more
>> viable. Is the pC aware of the feat?
>>
>
> Yes, I mentioned already that I pointed out the feat to the player, but he
> didn't seem interested.

Your player is an idiot. Those are by a long stretch the most powerful and
useful feat choices on the table.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Some Guy <someguy@thedoor.gov> wrote:
>You might also look at the geomancer from Complete Divine and see if
>that strikes your fancy.

Has *anyone* here ever had a PC take a level in that class?


Donald
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Donald Tsang wrote:
> Some Guy <someguy@thedoor.gov> wrote:
>
>>You might also look at the geomancer from Complete Divine and see if
>>that strikes your fancy.
>
>
> Has *anyone* here ever had a PC take a level in that class?
>
>
> Donald

Nope. It doesn't seem to give a big return for the buck. Sure, arcane
spellcasting in armor is a good benefit but I don't think any PC is
going to want to grow vines in place of their hair (for example) to get
it. I've rolled up some NPC geomancers that I'll try out when the party
gets closer to 10th level, where I built those NPCs.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Nikolaus Wagner wrote:
> Hi!
> Is there a good prestige class combo for an elven wiz+cleric?
> Thanks in advance,
> Nik

Vague recollection from a book I haven't looked it in a while, and
don't have here, but did you look at Fochlucan Lyrist from Complete
Adventurer? ISTR it being +1BAB/level, +1 casting level in Arcane, +1
caster level in divine, and two good saves, plus some class abilities.
You probably need bard levels to take it, though.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

> but if it's grease, glitterdust, bless and bull's strength

Losing duration on all those spells is very painful.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

> To WDS: Usenet articles often arrive out of order, and sometimes the
> precursor to an article disappears entirely. Therefore, it's important
> to quote enough context to indicate who you're talking to and what
> you're talking about, especially when making a request like the one
> above.

Golly, really?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> If this is the same Bill Seurer who's been posting to Usenet since 1991,
> he already knows the rules. Indeed, he used to quote context and
> attribute it properly. If he's new to Google groups, that explains the
> dropped context, although it doesn't explain the missing attributions or
> his nasty attitude about this.

I thought it was earlier but I don't remember exactly when Usenet took
off. I started using Google a while back beacuse I have different
computers and an unreliable newsfeed from my ISP. As for quoting I
usually do, I just hit the wrong reply button (a fault of Google).

And my attitude was more like heavy satire, not nasty. Of course
attitude in hopeless to communicate here, yes, even with smilies.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

WDS <Bill@seurer.net> wrote:
>> To WDS: Usenet articles often arrive out of order, and sometimes the
>> precursor to an article disappears entirely. Therefore, it's important
>> to quote enough context to indicate who you're talking to and what
>> you're talking about, especially when making a request like the one
>> above.

> Golly, really?

If you're aware of the problem, then why didn't you quote context or at
least indicate who you were talking to? Also, you should attribute
quotations to their authors.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

WDS wrote:
> > but if it's grease, glitterdust, bless and bull's strength
>
> Losing duration on all those spells is very painful.

Not really. Bull's Strength lasts 1 minute per level. It's really
jsut a one combat encounter spell. On the off chance you cast it when
needed then only a a minute or 2 later you're glad you still have it,
that's terrific, but in my estimation it doesn't happen often enough to
worry about. Even more so for the 1 round per level spells. A few
extra rounds can matter in a long combat, true, but the idea is to make
a combat as short as possible. The extra rounds lost in duration over
time is not so significant. When the duration runs out, you do
something else if needed.

Practiced Spellcaster is still a good Feat. It does help. It just
means if you are more selective of your spells a multiclass spellcaster
doesn't have to take it or else he's doomed.

Gerald Katz
 
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