Discussion XMP & EXPO RAM - Misleading Marketing

[Endre]

Hello!

2 years ago I was writing on this forum, that I'd like to buy the fastest 2x32GB DDR5 RAM kit that runs at JEDEC 1.1V specs, for reliability reasons.

Many people said that I should choose an XMP or EXPO kit because those are reliable enough.

So, I've built a high-end PC with the following specs:
1. Motherboard: ASRock X670E Taichi (newest BIOS available).
2. CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 9950X.
3. AIO: Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360.
4. Case: Fractal Design Meshify 2 RGB.
5. PSU: Corsair HX1200i.
6. RAM: Kingston Fury Beast 2x32GB DDR5 EXPO & XMP, with 2 profiles:
#1: DDR5-6400 CL32 1.4V (EXPO/XMP).
#2: DDR5-6000 CL30 1.4V (EXPO/XMP).

However, if I load any of the 2 EXPO profiles, the PC will boot fine, but if I test my system with MemTest86, I'll get errors!

My solution was loading the EXPO-DDR5-6000 profile and lowering only the DRAM at DDR5-5800.
That leads to a rock stable system.

However, not everyone knows how to do such tweaks!
And you know what??
People shouldn't need to know how to do such tweaks!
The RAM kits should work reliably at the specs written on their box!

CONCLUSION:
Companies should be held accountable for misleading customers by pushing the limits of the hardware, that they are selling, to such a degree!

PS:
This is for anyone out there thinking that memory XMP & EXPO profiles "just work"!
No, they don't always work reliably & properly!

 

[helpstar]

you are correct, it's not that easy. expo and xmp usually are working, but it's still overclocking.
the kit will work with the speed on the box, but not in all configurations.
if it gets you errors on you system, RMA it.

did you check the memory support list of your motherboard?
BIOS version is 3.16?

 

[CountMike]

Hello!

2 years ago I was writing on this forum, that I'd like to buy the fastest 2x32GB DDR5 RAM kit that runs at JEDEC 1.1V specs, for reliability reasons.

Many people said that I should choose an XMP or EXPO kit because those are reliable enough.

So, I've built a high-end PC with the following specs:
1. Motherboard: ASRock X670E Taichi (newest BIOS available).
2. CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 9950X.
3. AIO: Arctic Liquid Freezer III 360.
4. Case: Fractal Design Meshify 2 RGB.
5. PSU: Corsair HX1200i.
6. RAM: Kingston Fury Beast 2x32GB DDR5 EXPO & XMP, with 2 profiles:
#1: DDR5-6400 CL32 1.4V (EXPO/XMP).
#2: DDR5-6000 CL30 1.4V (EXPO/XMP).

However, if I load any of the 2 EXPO profiles, the PC will boot fine, but if I test my system with MemTest86, I'll get errors!

My solution was loading the EXPO-DDR5-6000 profile and lowering only the DRAM at DDR5-5800.
That leads to a rock stable system.

However, not everyone knows how to do such tweaks!
And you know what??
People shouldn't need to know how to do such tweaks!
The RAM kits should work reliably at the specs written on their box!

CONCLUSION:
Companies should be held accountable for misleading customers by pushing the limits of the hardware, that they are selling, to such a degree!

PS:
This is for anyone out there thinking that memory XMP & EXPO profiles "just work"!
No, they don't always work reliably & properly!

There are other players involved in all of that. Memory controller is in the CPU, everything is supposed to be related to it. Ryzen has separate I/O chip that is intermediary between IMC and RAM. BIOS is the one that has to make everything compatible including reading of JEDEC and XMP/EXPO settings in RAM and implement them accordingly. It's actually BIOS that usually screws up things but while it's updates attempt to fix problems, they may not succeed every time.
So, for any misleading adverts, fault is shared with all of them. While advertising their products as "Overclockable", they also mention that by overclocking you lose warranty.
Starting with RAM, yes they are capable of let's say 6000MHz using XMP or EXPO as a guide but that's actually overclock for which they would void warranty.
CPU, for instance has IMC up to 5600MHz and yeah sure it can go faster but not guaranteed and if you force it, warranty is void.
Motherboard manufacturers also have similar scheme, yes you can OC thru it and it's BIOS but no guarantee it will always work and if you do, it's on you, not them. They test few combinations that are barelly1% of all possible, present them in QVL but even that is not guaranteed. it's just a guide and may change at any time,
To somebody that doesn't know all of that, it and doesn't read small letters, it does look like outright cheating but legally they covered their a$$es

 

[Endre]

you are correct, it's not that easy. expo and xmp usually are working, but it's still overclocking.
the kit will work with the speed on the box, but not in all configurations.
if it gets you errors on you system, RMA it.

did you check the memory support list of your motherboard?
BIOS version is 3.16?

Hi!

Yes, the memory kit is on the QVL of my motherboard.
And yes, I am on the 3.16 BIOS version, which makes no difference.
Previously, I've been on all of these BIOS versions:
3.06; 3.08; 3.10; 3.12 Beta; 3.15; 3.16.

The CPU is high-end.
The motherboard is high-end.
The CPU cooling is "the best" by the opinion of many legit YouTubers.
The PSU is high-end.
The case is decent.
The RAM brand is reputable.
But, in the end, I have to run it at a slower speed.

RMA-ing the RAM??
Well, I am pretty sure that a future Zen 6 CPU will restore the "lost" speed of my RAM kit.

NOTE:
My reason for posting this is just to highlight the fact that OC profiles aren't guaranteed to work reliably on the long term.
(It's CPU silicone lottery).

 

[Endre]

There are other players involved in all of that. Memory controller is in the CPU, everything is supposed to be related to it. Ryzen has separate I/O chip that is intermediary between IMC and RAM. BIOS is the one that has to make everything compatible including reading of JEDEC and XMP/EXPO settings in RAM and implement them accordingly. It's actually BIOS that usually screws up things but while it's updates attempt to fix problems, they may not succeed every time.
So, for any misleading adverts, fault is shared with all of them. While advertising their products as "Overclockable", they also mention that by overclocking you lose warranty.
Starting with RAM, yes they are capable of let's say 6000MHz using XMP or EXPO as a guide but that's actually overclock for which they would void warranty.
CPU, for instance has IMC up to 5600MHz and yeah sure it can go faster but not guaranteed and if you force it, warranty is void.
Motherboard manufacturers also have similar scheme, yes you can OC thru it and it's BIOS but no guarantee it will always work and if you do, it's on you, not them. They test few combinations that are barelly1% of all possible, present them in QVL but even that is not guaranteed. it's just a guide and may change at any time,
To somebody that doesn't know all of that, it and doesn't read small letters, it does look like outright cheating but legally they covered their a$$es

Yeah.

I think that there should exist a regulatory body that would keep these companies accountable!

If a RAM kit is on the QVL of a motherboard, then it should work flawlessly!

I, personally, only lost 0.34ns in terms of speed by lowering the DRAM from 6000 to 5800.
But, that's not the point.
The point is that it should've worked flawlessly!

 

[CountMike]

Yeah.

I think that there should exist a regulatory body that would keep these companies accountable!

If a RAM kit is on the QVL of a motherboard, then it should work flawlessly!

I, personally, only lost 0.34ns in terms of speed by lowering the DRAM from 6000 to 5800.
But, that's not the point.
The point is that it should've worked flawlessly!

Damn those QVLs, Never payed too much attention to them always short and out of date. Literary and BIOS update can turn list topsy-turvy. if they also do not recheck all the combos and they don't.
Right now, using non-QVL Kingston 6000MHz Cl32 with only XMP and not only that it works at those XMP settings but also at 6200MT/s at Cl 30 with just a bit of tweaking.

 

[thestryker]

Unfortunately XMP and EXPO are memory overclocking albeit with stored settings rather than manual tuning. Motherboard QVLs are almost entirely done with what's referred to as a golden sample. This means that the only thing the QVL tells you is that any given kit on it can work not that it will work. The only way they would get more reliable is if AMD/Intel had some sort of requirement to test low/average quality chips.

XMP/EXPO are significantly better today at "just working" than these technologies used to be, but without some more standardization it's always going to be a maybe/can type situation as opposed to will.