xp install ?NTFS no FAT32

[brian14]

OK, I got a box with XP pro already on it in NTFS file sys.
Needs to be redone, a new install. I learned the hard way that I can't use a DOS boot disk to FDISK then format the HD, because xp won't see it. So I boot off the XP CD. I agree to the sign your first born and all life to Bill aggrement.Known to some as F8.
I get to the option where I should be able to choose which filesystem I want to format with an I only get a NTFS option. No FAT choice. And I have no clue as to why?
The PC was already NTFS, but that should not make any difference at this point in the setup should it?
Could someone please explain what is happening here? and how I can get the FAT option to format it to?
Thanks I ap[preciate any help sent my way
B

peace be with you

 

[Guest]

You can't format a NTFS partition with FAT. Thats why you don't have that option. You'll have to delete the NTFS partition, and recreate the partition, then format with FAT. IIRC, the delete option is at the same stage of the install as the format option.

_________________________
Your arrogance is boring!

 

[brian14]

Well, U have given me the closest answer that I can sink my teeth into. But I am still at a loss. I got it working, thats not the problem, I just still do not understand what U R saying. I assumed that as long as you were using the XP CD to do the formating, and install, it would see either FAT or NTFS? During the install, it (XP) gives u the option to del. the partition. Obviously U R correct, because it did not give me the option, I just thought it should, I guess. It would have made more sense to me had I had NT4 and tried to load 98, with diff file systems.
Hey, I dont know if any of that made sense, but to make it simple, I thank you for your time.
(iirc, the del comes right before the format opt.)-:

peace be with you

 

[Toejam31]

Hi!~

I learned the hard way that I can't use a DOS boot disk to FDISK then format the HD, because xp won't see it.

You must have run into an unknown problem while doing this, because I've used a standard Win98 boot disk and the FDISK command to create partitions many times in the past before installing WinXP. Just be certain that you add no switches to the FORMAT command (such as /s) because you do not want system files to be transferred off the floppy. This will result in two operating systems showing up in the boot.ini file, which you'd have to edit later on. This could also create some confusion during the installation about where the OS should be installed, if WinXP "thinks" Win98 or another operating system is already present on the hard drive.

Note: I usually create a primary, active DOS partition of 5-7GB when installing WinXP ... with the assumption in mind beforehand that most large applications (such as games) will be installed to a drive letter other than C:.

Note: FDISK has problems with partitions over 137GB in size, because DOS doesn't support 48-bit logical block addressing.

Check out this guide to brush up on the instructions for how to use FDISK correctly:

<A HREF="http://www.computerhope.com/sfdisk1.htm" target="_new">FDISK SIMULATION</A>

And be sure that your boot disk contains the latest version of FDISK:

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q263044" target="_new">FDISK Does Not Recognize Full Size of Hard Disks Larger than 64 GB</A>

I assumed that as long as you were using the XP CD to do the formating, and install, it would see either FAT or NTFS? During the install, it (XP) gives u the option to del. the partition. Obviously U R correct, because it did not give me the option, I just thought it should, I guess.

Two things. One, if the partition you've created is over 32GB in size, the only file system option will be NTFS.

<A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=314463" target="_new">Limitations of the FAT32 File System in Windows XP</A>

And so, if during the installation, WinXP detects a partition over 32GB in size that is already FAT32, you can't allow the OS CD to format the partition again, or you'll end up with NTFS. You have to choose to leave the file system intact, and then choose the first option "To set up Windows XP on the selected item, press ENTER."

You really should have seen an option during the WinXP setup to delete or create a new partition as shown on this page:

<A HREF="http://www.theeldergeek.com/hard_drives_03.htm" target="_new">Partitioning A Blank Hard Drive During XP Installation</A>

Note: If this is a proprietary system, you might find it best to download and create a floppy disk with tools from the hard drive manufacturer to low level format (actually, a middle level format that writes ones and zeros to the drive) the disk before creating new partitions. The hard drive might have a hidden partition that contains files for system recovery, which really should be removed.

Once the drive has been basically wiped clean, use FDISK to create your partitions, and format the primary, active partition where the OS will be installed. If you have no program such as Partition Magic, format all partitions that will be FAT32 before the OS installation, because WinXP has no option from within the GUI to format partitions over 32GB in size, either ... it's not just something that happens during setup. However, if you have a third-party disk partitioning program, you can format other partitions at a later time.

Remember that the entire hard drive must be partitioned off with FDISK, regardless of the size of the primary partition. Primary, extended, and then logical drives. And if you remove them, you have to delete them in the order of creation ... in other words, logical, extended, and then primary. And the primary partition must be set as active for everything to go smoothly.

Questions?

Toey

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[blah]

""DOS boot disk to FDISK then format the HD, because xp won't see it.""

It was probably a very hard way, caz it is no true.

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...

 

[mrmonsoon]

I think Klutz has the real cause. you say you loaded the cd and started going then tried to format the existing partion-created in ntfs (New Technology File System). A NTFS partion won't see FAT (File Allocation Table). You must delete the partion and creat a partion and then format it in FAT (recommend FAT32). Think of it like this, your ntfs partion speaks French, you are trying to communicate to it in English (FAT)-it won't understand. Toeham is correct in what he is saying, I just got the feeling it was a little over your head. If it wasn't, please forgive me I didn't mean to insult your intelligence.

 

[Toejam31]

Hi, mrmonsoon ...

Re-read the original post again, if you will.

The user made a couple of mistakes. Let's break this down, if you don't mind.

First ...

I learned the hard way that I can't use a DOS boot disk to FDISK then format the HD, because xp won't see it.

Which isn't true. If the partition is valid, and correctly formatted, the WinXP disk should have no difficulty with the partition detection. I can think of no particular reason why WinXP can't be installed in a normal primary DOS partition made with FDISK, as long as it is under 137GB ... when the 48-bit logical block addressing issue comes into play.

Then ...

I boot off the XP CD. I agree to the sign your first born and all life to Bill aggrement.Known to some as F8.
I get to the option where I should be able to choose which filesystem I want to format with an I only get a NTFS option. No FAT choice. And I have no clue as to why?
The PC was already NTFS, but that should not make any difference at this point in the setup should it?

Obviously, the user really wasn't paying that much attention to the set up, and missed the point where the partition could be deleted, and a new one created.

To my way of thinking, this means the only partition currently on the disk was NTFS ... and if it was 137GB or better, there would be no option for FAT or FAT32.

The two more remote possibilities could be that no partition was detected, or the current partition information was invalid ... again, forcing Windows to be installed in a new, single, large partition, due to lack of user intervention during the process.

Klutz said ...

You can't format a NTFS partition with FAT.

Of course, Klutz is right; you can't format an NTFS partition with FAT. The only option if a FAT file system is desired would be to either delete the partition and start over, or use a third-party tool on a boot disk to change the file system.

However, you said ...

A NTFS partion won't see FAT (File Allocation Table).

Sorry, sir ... that's not only not true, but it's a weird statement, if you give it some thought. It's not the file system that determines what kind of partitions are "visible", so to speak, whether from the command line, or from within a GUI.

Two examples. Lets say the disk had two partitions, with one being NTFS, and the other FAT16. Windows NT 4.0 is installed in a 2GB FAT16 partition. Are both partitions visible from within the GUI? Yes ... because the operating system supports both kind of file systems.

Now ... lets assume the disk has a single NTFS 5 partition. The system is booted with a Win98 boot disk. Is the partition visible?

Yes.

It will show up as being a non-DOS partition. Occasionally, with older versions of FDISK, it could be misidentified as an HPFS partition, with read-only access.

Now ... here's the important question: can FDISK delete a non-DOS partition?

Yes. This option is available, as shown on this <A HREF="http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/libsys/mmm/multi.htm" target="_new">page</A>.

I also wish to make this clear ... any Windows operating system meant for home use that supports NTFS can also see and use a FAT32 or FAT16 partition.

The only truly important aspect of this entire endeavor is that DOS cannot create or format a NTFS partition, and that WinXP cannot re-format an NTFS partition as FAT or FAT32 which seems to be what everyone was attempting to say, in a circuitous manner, of sorts. At least, that's what appears to be happening in the thread.

The type of partition that should be created is entirely dependent on what the <i>operating system environment</i> can use and support.

I hope you understand, this post is just about clarity, and nothing against <i>anyone's</i> intelligence. If it so happens that my original post was over the user's head, I'll just go right on and apologize for being obtuse, although if the user clicked on the links I provided, everything should have been made clear, with only a few minutes of study ... which really is my point. Education is more important than just explaining something, bit by bit, as if the user is incapable of rational, constructive thought.

If the latter is the case, then nothing either you OR I can say is going to make difference. That's just beating a dead horse for refusing to drink. Some things are just a waste of time and energy.

In the interests of science, here's a chart you might find useful:

<A HREF="http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/cross.htm" target="_new">PC Operating System and File System Cross-Reference</A>

And another link, just to complete the preceding information: <A HREF="http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q310561" target="_new">q310561</A>

Later ...

Toey

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