Your Reputation System Feedback

[mactronix]

Personally, I'd say it has to give equal ratings - i.e. 100 BAs before counts just as much as 100 BAs after. Otherwise, no one will get the prestigious badges.

My main recommendation is think what it will mean 5 years on. If we say that the Golden Hammer (or whatever) required 1000 BAs on the old system, then any new talent will be ignored. If we say 1500 BAs total, it would have a similar effect now, but much better in 5 years.

Any New talent that feels hard done by in 5 years time can do as I am and appeal to the community manager for some recognition. What form that takes would be up to the posters and community manager when/if it happens again.
There is a recognition system in place now to award new talent, that's what the badges and best answer system that is in place now is doing.
It just so happens that the new system is very unfair to posters who have been around the block a bit as Saga Lout puts it.
Let me ask this. How would you feel if you had studied for 3 years or 5 or 10 and achieved a high status in you chosen profession,only to see the qualifications needed to equal your position reduced to a 6 month course ? Because that's basically what has happened to those posters that achieved Addict/Expert and Master status on the old system.

Mac

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Probably not - but that's why you have hovering support.

On another note, currently badges only show when you are posting in a thread with the appropriate tag(s). If you show all the badges in a smaller size, how about making relevant badges glow, or fade the irrelevant ones? I also support putting them in the name bar, between the name and the post time.

 

[mactronix]

Probably not - but that's why you have hovering support.

On another note, currently badges only show when you are posting in a thread with the appropriate tag(s). If you show all the badges in a smaller size, how about making relevant badges glow, or fade the irrelevant ones? I also support putting them in the name bar, between the name and the post time.

It is my understanding that you can add which ever badges you like to your profile and they will appear at all times.
To me that's a little pretentious that's why I'm asking for a default appearance of some form of recognition for veteran posters.

Mac

 

[ssddx]

i've been around since 2009 and technically i'm a veteran however i do not see the point in having a special status just because we were here at the right time.

the status should be attainable by all not just by old members (age of account not your actual age!)

i'm all for recognition but keep it fair.

 

[inzone]

Under the old Points system it took a long time to reach Master status and I don't know how many did but it was an achievement to do so worthy of recognition. However the other status ranks were not as separated or very hard to achieve, you had all the levels between 0 and 50,000 points and then it was 150,000 points for Master, so in my view that system was a little unfair because of that.
If we're going to have a ranking system then it should be well thought out and fair to everyone and not be susceptible to someone gaming the system, so some of the qualifications should be ones that can't be manipulated.

How long you have been a member is one.

Post count with a minimum character requirement is another, and yes there are those posts that can be answered with a yes or no but do you really want to count those?

Legacy Badges can't be counted because you can no longer obtain those and they were based on the points system . so new members do not have the opportunity to get those badges.
To give some credit for those badges you can count the total best answers towards the ranking.

Which ever way is decided there needs to be a good amount of time and thought put into it so that it is fair towards everyone.

 

[ssddx]

sometimes a yes or no answer is all that is needed. it takes no less knowledge to do so. if it answered the question fully then it should count. ideally though yes you are correct a longer answer should be used to explain why not just yes or no.

agree... the system should be fair for everyone. not everyone has time to make 20,000 posts or be a forum rat but this doesnt mean that they cant be veteran status provided they have a minimum number of ba's, posts and badges. i'm speaking of users like myself.

 

[rolli59]

sometimes a yes or no answer is all that is needed. it takes no less knowledge to do so. if it answered the question fully then it should count. ideally though yes you are correct a longer answer should be used to explain why not just yes or no.

agree... the system should be fair for everyone. not everyone has time to make 20,000 posts or be a forum rat but this doesnt mean that they cant be veteran status provided they have a minimum number of ba's, posts and badges. i'm speaking of users like myself.

Fully agreed, really the requirement now is only 5 BA's which can be achieved in a day, a reasonable member time limit and post count would fix that. Be it what ever 3months-1year of membership and anywhere between 100-500posts. For example we get our first member badge after a year on the forum, it could be the benchmark to go by.
Example of an yes answer; OP writes back after your response with some reponse and asks am I understanding this correctly, you can answer Yes! Correct! or Yes correct! Here if No you would elaborate but if yes I would just go with yes!

 

[Saga Lout]

BAs are flawed. I reversed one I found this morning, selected by a poster called Trenchcoat. http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1703405/remove-outlook-express.html#10974212

He doesn't show up in any searches so he may have cancelled his account. He had no input in that thread and the answer he selected was far from being correct, given the problem is supposedly Outlook Express and not Outlook.

 

[ssddx]

which is why only more senior members should be able to select best answers instead of someone with just 5 bas.

 

[rolli59]

He doesn't show up in any searches so he may have cancelled his account.

Interesting! Maybe somebody created an account to be able to progress? If account is deleted can they be caught?
Why would somebody have enough interest in the forum to stop in to select a best answer to delete the account afterwards?
Could it be that in reality is the flaw with the new system that multiple users have been complaining about.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

He doesn't show up in any searches so he may have cancelled his account.

Interesting! Maybe somebody created an account to be able to progress?

I wonder about that sometimes with certain new users having crazy high best answer counts. But you can't search by users posts anymore and I guess it's really the mods job to find anyone doing that.

 

[inzone]

We do look for them and find them and they are dealt with.

 

[mactronix]

i've been around since 2009 and technically i'm a veteran however i do not see the point in having a special status just because we were here at the right time.

the status should be attainable by all not just by old members (age of account not your actual age!)

i'm all for recognition but keep it fair.

Under the old Points system it took a long time to reach Master status and I don't know how many did but it was an achievement to do so worthy of recognition. However the other status ranks were not as separated or very hard to achieve, you had all the levels between 0 and 50,000 points and then it was 150,000 points for Master, so in my view that system was a little unfair because of that.
If we're going to have a ranking system then it should be well thought out and fair to everyone and not be susceptible to someone gaming the system, so some of the qualifications should be ones that can't be manipulated.

How long you have been a member is one.

Post count with a minimum character requirement is another, and yes there are those posts that can be answered with a yes or no but do you really want to count those?

Legacy Badges can't be counted because you can no longer obtain those and they were based on the points system . so new members do not have the opportunity to get those badges.
To give some credit for those badges you can count the total best answers towards the ranking.

Which ever way is decided there needs to be a good amount of time and thought put into it so that it is fair towards everyone.

Interesting view point. So you don't see why peoples past achievements under the old system should be recognized. Even though the new system is far from fair to those with high post counts from before. And you want it to be fair

People are getting caught up in the "Oh me" too syndrome here.
I suggested/asked for the possibility of a default and unobtainable by new users recognition for veteran users from the old system as a way of permanently preserving their status and recognizing that they and their past contributions are valued here at Toms.

There are already achievements that all users can not achieve, Not everyone can be a Moderator. Not everyone can get a Toms Team Star.
In every other walk of life when there is a restructuring its usual practice for peoples old status to be preserved within the new system.

Its obvious that people are gaming the new system in a big way and it wouldn't take a very large group of friends to be able to do so without it being very difficult tor moderation to spot it unless they took a very long time to specifically search for abuse.

People have raised the Best answer selecting issue numerous times and its still as it was.

Veteran users have left due to the new system being too easy to obtain credit in and surpass veteran users post/best answer counts.
I have said it before and I will say it again.
Its a real kick in the teeth the way this has been allowed to happen.
Its a really really badly thought out platform upgrade that allows this. A status that took Years to achieve now takes months.

Mac

 

[manofchalk]

Except peoples past achievements are recognized on the new forum, Legacy badges that cant be obtained by new posters. They can even be displayed under our names, look at Someone Somewhere, says under his name Legacy.
If you want, you have three Legacy badges you could put under your name.

I question what you mean by our "status". We were here before the new forum, and have stuck around afterward. Does that make us any better than those who have come since, are we special somehow?
We are people who come here to give advice to people who seek it, we still are with the new forum and so is anyone who joined recently. In terms of what we do and are responsible for, we are no higher than a new user. The mods have the Team Star because they are the authority here, they have special privileges and powers that the ordinary user doesn't, and that star is what tells us this.

For us to receive an icon similar to the Team Star next to our name would imply far too much IMO. Just because we joined before a particular time, yet we don't have any greater power,responsibility or even necessarily knowledge than another user. The majority of those who were here before don't do anything more than what the newest regular posters do. Look at the General Billboard, plenty of new blood in the Top Ten.

I think if we were to have some permanent icon affixed next to our names, it would need to tell of something properly significant, not just that we did something not all that special a while ago.

Also the claim that the new forum is being gamed, I don't see it.
I'm fairly active across most of the forums, I cant say I have noticed anyone posting rubbish to inflate their count, BA's being awarded where it doesn't make sense or any seeming organization to promote some new users. The occasional one where it doesn't make sense, like the one Saga found, I think aren't a tip of an iceberg, just an isolated incident.
Also why would someone want to game the system? What objective benefit would someone obtain from being highly regarded in these forums? It wouldn't be malice, trolls are pretty rare here and even if one was artificially boosted then they would be called out quite quickly by veteran users and banned. Commercial benefit I wish, if so I would be getting paid for being here. A company pushing their products, maybe, but again I haven't noticed anything along those lines and they already have official representatives here.

 

[mactronix]

Except peoples past achievements are recognized on the new forum, Legacy badges that cant be obtained by new posters. They can even be displayed under our names, look at Someone Somewhere, says under his name Legacy.
If you want, you have three Legacy badges you could put under your name.

I question what you mean by our "status". We were here before the new forum, and have stuck around afterward. Does that make us any better than those who have come since, are we special somehow?
We are people who come here to give advice to people who seek it, we still are with the new forum and so is anyone who joined recently. In terms of what we do and are responsible for, we are no higher than a new user. The mods have the Team Star because they are the authority here, they have special privileges and powers that the ordinary user doesn't, and that star is what tells us this.

For us to receive an icon similar to the Team Star next to our name would imply far too much IMO. Just because we joined before a particular time, yet we don't have any greater power,responsibility or even necessarily knowledge than another user. The majority of those who were here before don't do anything more than what the newest regular posters do. Look at the General Billboard, plenty of new blood in the Top Ten.

I think if we were to have some permanent icon affixed next to our names, it would need to be based on merit, and not just limited to those who happened to be active on Tom's a while ago.
This isnt just about recognizing us, but also those who have come since.

Also the claim that the new forum is being gamed, I don't see it.
I'm fairly active across most of the forums, I cant say I have noticed anyone posting rubbish to inflate their count, BA's being awarded where it doesn't make sense or any seeming organization to promote some new users. The occasional one where it doesn't make sense, like the one Saga found, I think aren't a tip of an iceberg, just an isolated incident.
Also why would someone want to game the system? What objective benefit would someone obtain from being highly regarded in these forums? It wouldn't be malice, trolls are pretty rare here and even if one was artificially boosted then they would be called out quite quickly by veteran users and banned. Commercial benefit I wish, if so I would be getting paid for being here.

I think if we were to have some permanent icon affixed next to our names, it would need to be based on merit, and not just limited to those who happened to be active on Tom's a while ago.

This is why my suggestion was for users who had attained a certain status.
As I have said before there is a huge difference between adding badges ourselves which basically says "Oh look at how good I am" Compared to a small default icon that says "We recognize your past contributions"

Its not about being "Better than"
With the way people are rounding on this simple suggestion it seems there is no love for any form of recognition system.

I question what you mean by our "status". We were here before the new forum, and have stuck around afterward. Does that make us any better than those who have come since, are we special somehow?

Would having no status at all be better for you ? Whats wrong with having past achievements recognized ?
Its just an extension of what we have now, I really think people are overreacting and over thinking the issue.

At the end of the day my suggestion can only really be decided upon by the powers that be at Toms themselves.
Hopefully Our Community manager will either make a decision on or will pass along my suggestion to those who will decide if Toms feels they want to formerly recognize past contributions themselves or not.

I feel that there are two separate issues at play here and some are failing to differentiate properly between the two.
Earning credit and being recognized for it is an ongoing issue and absolutely has to be fair and even handed to everyone.
Being recognized for past contributions in a new forum that has essentially eradicated that is totally different.

Mac

 

[manofchalk]

The hammer icon I'm not inherently against, just your method for getting it I'm against.
A permanent icon next to peoples name so far has only been used to signify a member of the mod team so far, to have one next to someone else's name would imply a status that's similar to the mods. I feel that for a recognition like that, we would need to have done more than just gotten a high score in the previous forum (and it being limited to the previous forum members I'm against).

This might sound like I'm trying to position myself for one, but I'm not.
Something like that would have to be earned through a significant contribution to the community, and not just in the normal way of answering questions and getting BA's. I'm talking you need to have created something like a comprehensive guide on a subject or some similar large sum of work, the best example I can think of is Rubix1101's water-cooling sticky, or 4Ryan6's work with sub-ambient cooling. That kind of contribution to the community is what I think would deserve a permanent icon next to our names.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/282844-29-peltier-water-cooling

Of course, this can be quite subjective, one could argue that rezasam1 who has been creating Toms Hardware wallpapers and avatars (which several of the mods now carry) could also get this recognition, even though in terms of general forum achievements he is quite bare.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1647-54-tomshardware-wallpaper

I can understand your need for recognition of previous work, I also have a significant amount of work done in the old forum. I just think that we already have that recognition. We have Legacy badges the new users cant get, we have badges that outright state we have been here for a while, our post count and best answers have carried over and we have an informal goodwill and reputation among the regular posters.
The only thing we lost was a rank which was just based off a points system, which largely relied on posts and BA's, which were as easily manipulated back then as you claim now.

 

[Onus]

We (the mods) do try to spot duplicate accounts and people trying to game the system. I hope the devs are able to bring back the ability to search for all of a user's posts; this would REALLY help.
Although I too would like to see some kind of recognition, all of us old-timers (and there's at least one group older than mine) know who we are. Perhaps a "campaign" badge, or a "version" badge would be in order, that offers more information than "this person has been a member for at least three years."
We are looking at the BA system. I agree with you that a lot more status than five BAs should be sufficient to pick one; I'd add "must have a relevant 'Expert' or 'Master' badge," must have at least six months on the forums, and must have been a thread participant. Moderators have reversed a few BA selections where we found people playing games, and certainly any BA that gets reported would be checked.

 

[mactronix]

The hammer icon I'm not inherently against, just your method for getting it I'm against.
A permanent icon next to peoples name so far has only been used to signify a member of the mod team so far, to have one next to someone else's name would imply a status that's similar to the mods. I feel that for a recognition like that, we would need to have done more than just gotten a high score in the previous forum (and it being limited to the previous forum members I'm against).

This might sound like I'm trying to position myself for one, but I'm not.
Something like that would have to be earned through a significant contribution to the community, and not just in the normal way of answering questions and getting BA's. I'm talking you need to have created something like a comprehensive guide on a subject or some similar large sum of work, the best example I can think of is Rubix1101's water-cooling sticky, or 4Ryan6's work with sub-ambient cooling. That kind of contribution to the community is what I think would deserve a permanent icon next to our names.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277130-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/282844-29-peltier-water-cooling

Of course, this can be quite subjective, one could argue that rezasam1 who has been creating Toms Hardware wallpapers and avatars (which several of the mods now carry) could also get this recognition, even though in terms of general forum achievements he is quite bare.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/1647-54-tomshardware-wallpaper

I can understand your need for recognition of previous work, I also have a significant amount of work done in the old forum. I just think that we already have that recognition. We have Legacy badges the new users cant get, we have badges that outright state we have been here for a while, our post count and best answers have carried over and we have an informal goodwill and reputation among the regular posters.
The only thing we lost was a rank which was just based off a points system, which largely relied on posts and BA's, which were as easily manipulated back then as you claim now.

Your last paragraph demonstrates that you really do not fully understand where I am coming fro with this.

As I have said before there is a huge difference between adding badges ourselves which basically says "Oh look at how good I am" Compared to a small default icon that says "We recognize your past contributions"

Its the default bit that is key here.

Above/below or beside the name or Avatar, the positioning is not an issue for me.
Should this suggestion be accepted by Toms then yourself or others who feel they have a case for special recognition can present a case for that situation.
Raising issues is one thing but lets not try to devalue one suggestion with another.

Mac

 

[manofchalk]

Sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive, its not my intention to bash on your suggestion. Just stating the issues I see with it and my suggestion on how its handled.

My main issue is how that recognition would be displayed, with a permanent icon presuming too much IMO. Some other way of recognizing a users past achievement is fine. Maybe changing the colour of the space between the name and date, or just the post in general would be one way to do it.

 

[mactronix]

Sorry if I'm coming off as aggressive, its not my intention to bash on your suggestion. Just stating the issues I see with it and my suggestion on how its handled.

My main issue is how that recognition would be displayed, with a permanent icon presuming too much IMO. Some other way of recognizing a users past achievement is fine. Maybe changing the colour of the space between the name and date, or just the post in general would be one way to do it.

As I said, its pretty much down to Toms to decide on those types of issues. All that is left really is for Toms to make a decision. If its done then the details of where and how any additional recognition would be displayed is down to them. I am sure your feelings will be noted.

Mac

 

[ssddx]

mactronix....

we already have the ancient badge. (perhaps a 6 year badge should be added)
we already have legacy badges. (which you cant get anymore)

how would you feel if you've been here 6 years and were more helpful than someone who has been here 7 but because they were here a bit longer they get special treatment and you get the shaft? in essence that is what you are suggesting which is what we dont agree with.

we ALL had most of the achievments taken away with the new forum. going on post count alone though is not a good idea as just about anyone can manage this. the new system with best answers, post count and time on the forum gives a better overall reperesentation on how helpful you are.

personally i post on the forum because i like to discuss and help others with technology. i do not post on here just to gain badges or titles. while having badges is nice to show others you know what you are talking about i dont look at them as a badge of honor.

i think you and i have different ideas on having the hammer and status. i think it would be a better idea to have this status reserved for helpful members (of a certain post count, best answers and service time) since it could be used for the good of the forum (selecting best answers, perhaps flagging posts or other activities) instead of having anyone and their brother going about selecting ba's.

also realize just as you have the right to suggest an idea we have the right to comment on it and make our own opinions. we took your idea and molded it into a better (again in OUR own opinion) idea. we arent trying to be aggressive here although you seem to be taking it offensively.

i was here before the forum change and i'm still here. not everyone feels the same way but i can definitely see where you are coming from. personally i dont feel recognition based on post count is the right way to go about things. recognition based on how helpful you are instead is a better option.

again... we arent trying to offend you, trample your idea, steal your idea or any of the sort. we are trying to modify it so that it has more purpose instead of being a status symbol of "i'm better since you cant get this hammer". again you may not feel exactly this way but that is how it can be percieved by new members who cannot ever get this status.

lets say they do what you say and DO get a hammer for age... what about 5 years from now? what if they get a new symbol, then 5 years from now another symbol. eventually they lose meaning and then there will be complaints AGAIN. this is why i suggest a system based on user helpfullness and also give them some low level powers to be able to help out on here more effectively.

my OPINION of course.

 

[mactronix]

mactronix....

we already have the ancient badge. (perhaps a 6 year badge should be added)
we already have legacy badges. (which you cant get anymore)

how would you feel if you've been here 6 years and were more helpful than someone who has been here 7 but because they were here a bit longer they get special treatment and you get the shaft? in essence that is what you are suggesting which is what we dont agree with.

we ALL had most of the achievments taken away with the new forum. going on post count alone though is not a good idea as just about anyone can manage this. the new system with best answers, post count and time on the forum gives a better overall reperesentation on how helpful you are.

personally i post on the forum because i like to discuss and help others with technology. i do not post on here just to gain badges or titles. while having badges is nice to show others you know what you are talking about i dont look at them as a badge of honor.

i think you and i have different ideas on having the hammer and status. i think it would be a better idea to have this status reserved for helpful members (of a certain post count, best answers and service time) since it could be used for the good of the forum (selecting best answers, perhaps flagging posts or other activities) instead of having anyone and their brother going about selecting ba's.

also realize just as you have the right to suggest an idea we have the right to comment on it and make our own opinions. we took your idea and molded it into a better (again in OUR own opinion) idea. we arent trying to be aggressive here although you seem to be taking it offensively.

i was here before the forum change and i'm still here. not everyone feels the same way but i can definitely see where you are coming from. personally i dont feel recognition based on post count is the right way to go about things. recognition based on how helpful you are instead is a better option.

again... we arent trying to offend you, trample your idea, steal your idea or any of the sort. we are trying to modify it so that it has more purpose instead of being a status symbol of "i'm better since you cant get this hammer". again you may not feel exactly this way but that is how it can be percieved by new members who cannot ever get this status.

lets say they do what you say and DO get a hammer for age... what about 5 years from now? what if they get a new symbol, then 5 years from now another symbol. eventually they lose meaning and then there will be complaints AGAIN. this is why i suggest a system based on user helpfullness and also give them some low level powers to be able to help out on here more effectively.

my OPINION of course.

You seem to be of the opinion that I am asking for this based just on time served. I am not and have never said that.
Post count best answers responding to news feeds etc were all included in the points system from the old forum which you should really already know. So there can be no suggestion that any recognition based on previous standing can be deemed to be based on time and post count only.
Please don't preach the "I only come here to help" line to me, anyone who knows me will know that is the sum total reason I come here. I have posted on many threads over the years that its about giving something back for me.
Personally for myself I couldn't give a monkeys if we get this recognition or not, if i was the type of person these things matter to I would have adorned my status with a selection of my badges.
I am deeply offended by your insinuation.

If you feel that new members not being shafted should take precedence over doing something to redress the way all the old users got shafted that's fine. your opinion as you say.

I think you need to re read the thread and try to understand where I am truly coming from.

Mac

 

[ssddx]

i still dont understand why you seem to be getting so upset.

none of us is accusing you of anything.

i myself simply stated what a pretty badge that nobody else can get boils down to.

i do know exactly where you are coming from.

---

personally i'd be thrilled to have a pretty little icon next to my name to honor past contributions. with that said though some people may get jealous and that can start problems. it is bad enough that we have legacy badges.

what the rest of us seem to be suggesting is something that is completely fair to all parties involved and actually may be of some purpose besides being just a pretty new icon.

believe me ... i do know where you are coming from completely. please do try to see things from out perspective as well as we have definitely looked at yours.

we may not agree of course but there is no need to be taking offense just because of that.

agreed, only the mods can decide if either of the ideas sounds like a good idea or not.

 

[jpishgar]

Combination of badges unlocking other badges.

This. This sounds like a lot of fun.

Is it possible to put back some of the features that were lost in the new forums before trying to add more stuff?

Like what? Very little was lost. The one main thing that has been requested would be...

I hope the devs are able to bring back the ability to search for all of a user's posts; this would REALLY help.

Which is on the list for development as a requested feature.

I'd add "must have a relevant 'Expert' or 'Master' badge," must have at least six months on the forums, and must have been a thread participant. Moderators have reversed a few BA selections where we found people playing games, and certainly any BA that gets reported would be checked.

We've seen a much higher rate of Best Answers selected as of late, ones that are certainly deserving of Best Answers. The fail rate is considerably lower than the success rate on this, though it may be worthwhile reducing the eligibility for setting Best Answers at some point in the near future. Right now, we're still not seeing the need emerge, as it's only an occasional thing.

Let's keep the discussion generally centered on reputation, prestige, public displays of recognition.
Great feedback so far, guys!

 

[ssddx]

you know.... for the life of me i STILL cant figure out how you guys manage to quote text like that

i know where the button is.... but it doesnt seem to do anything :lol:

offtopic i know.....