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[manofchalk]

i STILL cant figure out how you guys manage to quote text like that

Like this? 😛

Remove the "
["quote"] Paste in whatever you want quoted ["/quote"]

Also directed forum quotes are so easily manipulated
Maybe something to prevent that, and accidentally mis-crediting. A couple of times I have accidentally accredited a quote to someone I didn't meant too because with a bunch of nested quotes it can get a bit confusing.
Of course, completely off-topic.

Back to topic.

Public Displays of recognition
- Different post coloured background or name/date bar
- Maybe a live counter of a members position on the leaderboard if their above 100/50 or whatever number.
-- Melding of the above two, people above 100 get Bronze post backgrounds, above 50 get Silver and above 25 get Gold. Would be more of a non-static display of reputation/status, though could be confusing to new users.

 

[ssddx]

yeah that...

the button doesnt do anything.

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do consider that not even mods have different colored background or title bars so lets not get too carried away here. i think this could be a little confusing with the best answer markups so it may be best to just leave it as a little image. with that said i do like the concept of having a different color and think it would be very nice looking. i am just not so sure its a good idea as it may be confusing with the best answer system.

it can be incredibly hard to be top 25/50 even if you are active. a static system requiring a certain number of posts would make it so that some members with enough statistics to warrant it but without as many posts that month can still be veteran status. for instance if i leave on vacation for a month i may not longer be veteran status even though it is warranted from past achievements. a static system avoids that type of dilema.

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as i said before i'm all for making it a new "badge" that gets displayed by default above any other relevant badges for the section. while a bit on the gaudy side it does let members know you've been around the block.

having a small hammer next to your name could be confused with you accidentally being mistaken for a moderator by someone not familiar with this forum. i'd like to avoid any such confusion if possible. if we do use a symbol it should be something like a gold coin or other object which does not cause confusion.

i'm all for being able to have some text under my name like moderators do (but have it say "forum veteran" or something else thats pretty snazzy. i'd like to bring back the ability to post our own quote there instead as well. that feature was nice on the old system.

@jpishgar

are you proposing a badge recognition only or would some of the basic ideas i mentioned above about being able to convert questions to BA topics and all of that jazz be applicable as well? an alternative approach would be to make all posts answer type status unless you select otherwise which would not need such a feature from us. just a thought. not trying to make us mini-moderators or anything even remotely similar.

 

[inzone]

I think staying with some sort of recognition for veterans would be better then to start allowing anyone besides Moderators to change things. Too many hands in the pot so to speak.

I don't think it's a good idea to separate members, we have members that have been here a long time and we will always have new members, to have any kind of separation would cause newer members to feel at a disadvantage and even now with the legacy badges a new member cannot get one ever. Any kind of veteran badge for past service should be available to everyone so that when a new member becomes a veteran he can get that badge. Some here have missed the point about being a forum member, Tom's Hardware Forum did not stop or cease to exist when the forum changed , just the reputation system (no more points) and some new features added and some removed, but we were still all the same members.

A reorganization of the badges would be good and as mentioned before a Main section badge would go a long way towards showing reputation in a section, a Master Badge to tie all the other badges together in a section. The body of work that would be required to obtain the Master Badge would be extensive and not easily obtained. But all members would have the opportunity to get it.

In the old system we did have the Tom's Hammer and it did not cause any confusion but it did signify a form of achievement as it turned from Brass to Silver and then to Gold. It would only make sense to have the return of the Hammer which can signify a form of achievement or a progression of achievements.

We can beneath our Avatar make a phrase or quote and this place can be used to add a small avatar or badge signifying veteran status or time accrued as a member.

All this should be available to all members and not just some, new members should be able to participate.

 

[ssddx]

well said inzone.

i think between a reorganization of badges and a veteran status once you reach a certain levels all parties involved here would be happy.

there is one thing thats always bugged me about badges though.... they are not labeled as to what they are when they show up next to your post. having a text lablel on them of their title would go a long way...

perhaps if we overhaul the badging system we could add text labels to the badges.

 

[rolli59]

Legacy badges are fine but if we are going to display something as recognition/status it should be achievable for new members as well. It would basically mean older members have a head start and some of the newer folks will follow and get there eventually.
Really the only thing I do not like about the new system is the 5 BA's to become veteran and have the ability to select best answers in other peoples threads!
Our community manager has stated that it will not change in the near future although toms has showed up at or near the top on every computer related question I have googled through the years!

 

[inzone]

^ agreed, however I do believe that the 5 BAs is a dead issue and will not be changed. The powers that be want questions solved at a high percentage rate and if more OPs were to select their solution we might not even need that option.

 

[jpishgar]

- Different post coloured background or name/date bar
Melding of the above two, people above 100 get Bronze post backgrounds, above 50 get Silver and above 25 get Gold. Would be more of a non-static display of reputation/status, though could be confusing to new users

At first I read this and I was like - wow, that would be really cool! Then I started to think, well, what if a gold user posted something goofy to a thread and it wasn't very high value? That might detract from the green highlighting a Best Answer gets. And then trying to track gold, silver and bronze vs. the green could be a little confusing to new users. I think a better bet is to stick with the idea of recognition through badges and iconography, as well as some of the increased granular powers and privileges as outlined in others responses in this thread.

are you proposing a badge recognition only or would some of the basic ideas i mentioned above about being able to convert questions to BA topics and all of that jazz be applicable as well? an alternative approach would be to make all posts answer type status unless you select otherwise which would not need such a feature from us. just a thought. not trying to make us mini-moderators or anything even remotely similar.

I'm actually cool with the idea of mini-mods. There's actually a power designation called "Helper" that actually can perform this kind of function as a heavily limited moderator, but it is manually set and not predicated on any particular achievement. If set up as an automatic grant, how would we keep abuse at a minimal? Or rather, would establishing a permissive auto-grant of such a feature but keeping the eligibility high (and based on some concurrent stat) protect us for the most part from possible abuse? We don't get a lot of crazies or griefers as prolific posters, but we've had at least one or two mods who themselves passed through the vetting process that didn't quite pan out and could have potentially damaged things on a community level. My concern is always for the preservation of our community and protecting the users, so I worry about an automated process of granting powers that could negative impact others. Definitely, definitely worth exploring though.

 

[mactronix]

It was obviously felt by Toms that recognizing past achievements in a way unobtainable to new users was something they wanted to do or we wouldn't have the badges that do so.

The way some of you are talking has me thinking that maybe we should just scrap all forms of recognition.
I have been told that moderation should be uncountable and their actions likewise.
What better way to achieve that and have everyone on the same footing than to totally remove all recognition symbols and titles, leaving just the users name and Avatar.

That way no one knows who the Moderation team is, of course we would need to appoint a new team, some of the old team might even make the new team.

Mac

 

[mactronix]

- Different post coloured background or name/date bar
Melding of the above two, people above 100 get Bronze post backgrounds, above 50 get Silver and above 25 get Gold. Would be more of a non-static display of reputation/status, though could be confusing to new users

At first I read this and I was like - wow, that would be really cool! Then I started to think, well, what if a gold user posted something goofy to a thread and it wasn't very high value? That might detract from the green highlighting a Best Answer gets. And then trying to track gold, silver and bronze vs. the green could be a little confusing to new users. I think a better bet is to stick with the idea of recognition through badges and iconography, as well as some of the increased granular powers and privileges as outlined in others responses in this thread.

are you proposing a badge recognition only or would some of the basic ideas i mentioned above about being able to convert questions to BA topics and all of that jazz be applicable as well? an alternative approach would be to make all posts answer type status unless you select otherwise which would not need such a feature from us. just a thought. not trying to make us mini-moderators or anything even remotely similar.

I'm actually cool with the idea of mini-mods. There's actually a power designation called "Helper" that actually can perform this kind of function as a heavily limited moderator, but it is manually set and not predicated on any particular achievement. If set up as an automatic grant, how would we keep abuse at a minimal? Or rather, would establishing a permissive auto-grant of such a feature but keeping the eligibility high (and based on some concurrent stat) protect us for the most part from possible abuse? We don't get a lot of crazies or griefers as prolific posters, but we've had at least one or two mods who themselves passed through the vetting process that didn't quite pan out and could have potentially damaged things on a community level. My concern is always for the preservation of our community and protecting the users, so I worry about an automated process of granting powers that could negative impact others. Definitely, definitely worth exploring though.

Hmmmm,
Another change of pace, previously any mention of expanding a users ability has been greeted with a feeling that it weakens the position of the moderation team.
A welcome change may I add.

Mac

 

[ssddx]

@jpishgar

i agree

thats similar to what i was thinking. things might get confusing for new users. having iconography still promotes the idea that you are a veteran but its also very seperate from best answers. in this way you can still see when a vet posts a best answer as it would be green AND you'd see their iconography.

having an icon next to your name or even better yet a nice badge that is on by default and maybe a text link like mods have (but have it say "veteran member" or something) is probably the best way to go about this.

about the idea of mini-mods or slightly buffed normal users.... i can definitely see how this can go awry.

what are your thoughts on this... we have bronze, silver and gold hammers. once you reach silver level there can be a vote to see if the user is deemed respectable enough to be granted those "limited powers" and then their status turns to a gold hammer.

i think some background information would have to be done on users to see how generally helpful they are and to see how they respond to others on the forum.

personally the only forum problems i see that are an issue are duplicate posts, questions not being an answer type thread and spam. the first two can be fixed with forum upgrades or via a new link similar to the "report abuse" button and the last is a moderator problem which is already solved by the "report abuse" function.

so in essence we really dont need extra moderation if a few extra steps are implemented

i think that if we get those features fixed then instead of low end moderation powers it would be a much wiser course of action to just give us the ability to have a few extra freedoms that others dont have.

-being allowed to add a personal quote below our avatar
-"veteran member" tag below our avatar (if NOT using the above)
-fancy "veteran member" badge always shown by default. all other badges will show up next to it like they currenty do.
-bronze, silver, gold hammer icons


again.... i'm mentioning both sides of the argument for discussion's sake. its up to you mods to decide what course of action you think is preferred.

this isnt entirely related to the post at hand.....

but jpishgar... what are your thoughts on having an irc chat connected with the forums? some questions are best answered in great detail live. i've had about 3 sessions (this is most usefull for some complicated computer build questions) and it was a huge help. the problem is that the free irc i use (freenode.net web chat) is a bit buggy

just my thoughts...

 

[jpishgar]

A vote by whom? By veterans? Mods? Other users? Users in general?

As for an IRC channel, I'm not a fan. I spent a lot of time in IRC in earlier years, and they don't really tend to add to communities the way forums do.

 

[Deleted member 217926]

I agree with no IRC. If you want to help someone one on one post a link to your messenger program.

If you are talking about giving limited mod powers to some users then I think the mods should decide. They get a pretty good overall idea of whom can be trusted just by doing their job. Maybe have a thread asking anyone who would like to participate to send a PM to a drop box setup just for that purpose. That would allow the process to be anonymous and not have anyone shamed who is turned down.

My ideal requirements would be membership for 1 year and at least 1000 posts to apply. Too many people just jump on and do 1000 posts a month or more so I would be more comfortable with the time and post requirement. That would show a certain level of commitment to the site and enough posts to know the person is not going to fly off the handle and need to get banned.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ssddx]

it would have to be a vote by the moderation staff.

that is the only way it would every work out right since a popular vote by members or veterans can not be counted on to be what is best for the forum in general. if a general vote is used then it would have to be reviews in final by the mods before it would take effect.

with that said it would have to be a rather limited selection of individuals. there is enough moderation required just patrolling the forums. adding in a sleugh of research for mods to grant permissions may be asking a bit too much i think.

this is why i'm not so sure if its a good idea but i will leave that up to you and the other mods to decide.

if the answer thread vs discussion thread issue was fixed and a few links added to report other issues was added (or could we use the report abuse link for other issues?) then there really isnt any need for mini mods.

again... the final decision would be for you and the mods to discuss

------

i suggested irc as a way to communicate between two or more users in real time.

sometimes posting back and forth on a forum really just doesnt cut it. the times i did get on irc i was thanked repeatedly for taking the time to go into much more depth than i did on the forum posts (and my forum posts were at least two pages long).

i do hear what you are saying about the community value though. irc can get ugly quick.

i most definitely can stick to freenode when i suggest it to people. i was just hoping of an easier (read: less buggy) option so figured that it was worth a try.

another option to irc may be to allow a chatbox between two users. ie like an instant messanger type system you can both join. same kind of a thing as irc but much more controlled.

i spent my fair share of time in irc and chat rooms too so i know how they can get. i also know the possibilities they offer if they can be kept under control.

anyways... thats just my take on it.

 

[manofchalk]

I think a better bet is to stick with the idea of recognition through badges and iconography, as well as some of the increased granular powers and privileges as outlined in others responses in this thread.

I was just throwing idea's at the wall, wasn't expecting it to stick.


The idea of Mini-Mods or "Helpers" I think could work if it was done well.
Some kind of minimum requirements like Anort suggested would be what makes a user eligible. If they want the position they apply to that thread or send a PM to whoever is responsible, from there a background check is taken to make sure that they can behave themselves.
Also with the Mini-Mods, you have a pool to select Mods from, with far less chance of getting a bad apple if you already know they can handle themselves with some responsibility.

Main thing would be deciding their powers, and how many to have as well. The Helpers could deal with the more rote stuff like deleting spam, moving topics and changing discussion/answer topics.
Maybe even some form of moderation system, where if one Helper thinks a person has breached the rules they can instigate an investigation on the person. Say if 5 other Helpers agree, they would be temporarily banned until a Mod makes the final decision.
You could carry this jury/committee style of decision making through to things like spam as well if its decided that there could be potential for abuse.

Some kind of chatbox between users would be great, more than a few times I'v been asked to talk through Skype or Facebook because its a faster communication medium than a forum. PM's work to a degree, but in the way they function they are basically just a private thread.

 

[inzone]

Manofchalk, you have described pretty much what a Moderator does and I don't think that Joe was thinking of that much power , besides the mini-mod would only make it more confusing to the new members. This forum has always had just Moderators and things have been kept under control with that system.

Perhaps this thread should steer back towards badges , best answers, posts and special icons. Veteran members have always been able to rack up best answers and badges and once a person starts posting here it doesn't take long to recognize those veterans. We also have never had to have any special recognition for any member besides the badges and the Hammer.

Just because the Administration decided to improve the forum and make it easier to navigate doesn't mean that there was a separation between what was before and what is now. It's still Tom's Hardware Forum, we still have the same people responding to questions and issues, if you were here before the upgrade and your here now then you have retained what you had and will continue to add to that.

Mactronix, when the upgrade took place the old system that was based on points ceased to exist and a new system was put in place and in order to preserve what members like you and me had acquired for badges they were converted to legacy badges and so that's why we have them. They are unobtainable because they were acquired by the points system and that's the reason new members cannot obtain these legacy badges. However they can obtain similar badges that the new system has added, for example we have the legacy CPU veteran badge and now they have an AMD badge and an Intel badge along with CPUs badge, we have a legacy graphics veteran badge and now they have an Nvidia badge and a Graphics card badge.
So there is an effort being made to make things as fair as possible with retaining what was earned and what can be earned. A new person see's the legacy badges but they also see that they can obtain a similar badge in that category.

Veteran status should be granted to anyone who aquires the necessary posts , best answers and time spent or what ever is deemed proper. I think it should be the Hammer and different levels should be attached to it. It starts out just a regular hammer and changes color till it reaches Gold and then a small diamond can be added to the handle for each tear there after. To that a large diamond can be added next to the members name at their 10 year anniversary and a second one for 20 years.

 

[mactronix]

Manofchalk, you have described pretty much what a Moderator does and I don't think that Joe was thinking of that much power , besides the mini-mod would only make it more confusing to the new members. This forum has always had just Moderators and things have been kept under control with that system.

Perhaps this thread should steer back towards badges , best answers, posts and special icons. Veteran members have always been able to rack up best answers and badges and once a person starts posting here it doesn't take long to recognize those veterans. We also have never had to have any special recognition for any member besides the badges and the Hammer.

Just because the Administration decided to improve the forum and make it easier to navigate doesn't mean that there was a separation between what was before and what is now. It's still Tom's Hardware Forum, we still have the same people responding to questions and issues, if you were here before the upgrade and your here now then you have retained what you had and will continue to add to that.

Mactronix, when the upgrade took place the old system that was based on points ceased to exist and a new system was put in place and in order to preserve what members like you and me had acquired for badges they were converted to legacy badges and so that's why we have them. They are unobtainable because they were acquired by the points system and that's the reason new members cannot obtain these legacy badges. However they can obtain similar badges that the new system has added, for example we have the legacy CPU veteran badge and now they have an AMD badge and an Intel badge along with CPUs badge, we have a legacy graphics veteran badge and now they have an Nvidia badge and a Graphics card badge.
So there is an effort being made to make things as fair as possible with retaining what was earned and what can be earned. A new person see's the legacy badges but they also see that they can obtain a similar badge in that category.

Veteran status should be granted to anyone who aquires the necessary posts , best answers and time spent or what ever is deemed proper. I think it should be the Hammer and different levels should be attached to it. It starts out just a regular hammer and changes color till it reaches Gold and then a small diamond can be added to the handle for each tear there after. To that a large diamond can be added next to the members name at their 10 year anniversary and a second one for 20 years.

Manofchalk, you have described pretty much what a Moderator does and I don't think that Joe was thinking of that much power , besides the mini-mod would only make it more confusing to the new members. This forum has always had just Moderators and things have been kept under control with that system.

I fully agree with this, With the very odd exception over the years Moderation of toms has been very good. Any site flooded with Spam will have a hard time keeping it clean,even with huge numbers of empowered people helping out and trying to keep it at bay.I actually feel that we are starting to win this particular war. Of late there seems to be less in the parts of the forum I frequent at least.
I really don't see the need for any extra Moderators. As a suggestion I have seen a few people who go by the title community reporter in the past, maybe we could use a few more of these ?
Its a tried and tested structure with I assume fixed parameters already in place.

Perhaps this thread should steer back towards badges , best answers, posts and special icons. Veteran members have always been able to rack up best answers and badges and once a person starts posting here it doesn't take long to recognize those veterans. We also have never had to have any special recognition for any member besides the badges and the Hammer.

Just because the Administration decided to improve the forum and make it easier to navigate doesn't mean that there was a separation between what was before and what is now. It's still Tom's Hardware Forum, we still have the same people responding to questions and issues, if you were here before the upgrade and your here now then you have retained what you had and will continue to add to that.

I fully understand what you are saying and I do agree. People seem to be taking the suggestion the wrong way and jumping to false conclusions both in my motivation and meaning.
There was no suggestion that others couldn't be veterans at any point or that it should make others somehow above others.
I don't agree that we have retained what we had. I had achieved a rank that it would have taken years for a new starter to achieve. Now they can get it in months. the playing field is far from level In that respect.

I know we have badges that are unobtainable by others and its really only a point of principal really.
I just felt that it would have been nice if Toms had issued these badges or a similar recognition by default.
I realize it seems trivial to some but please remember its just a suggestion. Despite some suggestion to the contrary I'm not getting upset by this offended by some of the insinuations yes but upset..No.

I have been on these forums for more than one of these upgrades and I was screwed over last time and in my eyes it has happened again.
Last time about 6 years ago my post count and best answer count were totally messed up and I was told couldn't be fixed. Basically even at the simple 4 points for replying my post count would have made me much higher in the ranking system that I was, even without the posts and best answers that were not transferred over. Simple math add the numbers up and change my score but no not possible.
So I swallowed that and made my way back up the rankings, now with this upgrade all that work has been devalued.
For the record I have been active on these forums from 2001.However they cant find me before 2006.

I get where you are coming from with everyone is essentially the same as we were and as I said before if it really really mattered that much I would have all my badges on display.
Just a suggestion based on a point of principle that's all.
Yes we will or no we wont its all the same to me.
I have been here a hell of a long time and anyone who thinks I have my interests above that of the forum is very much mistaken.
Mac

 

[manofchalk]

Sorry, I have the bad habit of de-railing this thread with my idea's.
And looking back, yea my proposed idea was basically just replacing the Mods outright.

 

[jpishgar]

Annnnnd... you've just been banned. 😛

Seriously though, great ideas guys. I've compiled the best here and the ones that stood up to cross-examination by other users in this thread and sent them along to the devs for possible implementation. I'll be sharing more with you guys as we move forward on improving the reputation system using your ideas.

Thanks all! (and feel free to keep the thread going)

 

[manofchalk]

My heart stopped for a second there, cant imagine a dead forum member would have been a good thing to have on your hands Jpishgar 😛.

 

[mactronix]

One thing I would like to see if we go with a new reputation system of some description is a link that takes a user to an explanation of how the system works.

On the old system it was not that obvious what all the rankings actually meant or which was higher. Some forums use a star system, more stars equals higher achievement, kinda makes me think of McDonald's though.

What I would ask for is a link as we have now to "see all this members badges" that was for "Toms ranking system explained"

Mac

 

[inzone]

Mac, there is a sticky at the top of this forum section that was authored by Joe and explains in detail everything to do with reputation. With the word reputation in this contex meaning , best answer, badges , legacy badges and the billboard plus a few other things.
I'm sure that if he took the time to make this thread that he will do the same with any changes that come down the pike.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1633109/guide-badges.html

We can only post these stickys for people to read , it's then up to the individual to read them. To date there have been only 690 reads on that sticky and that's not a lot in a forum this size.

Quite possibly something like you want would have to be included in the welcome email to new members in the hope that they read it. When you have a membership this large you can only do so much when it comes to notifications and it would have to be done on a mass mailing or PM.

 

[mactronix]

I really don't see how it can be any easier than including a link to a simple explanation in the Avatar mouse over window.
There is already one there for all members badges.

Mac

 

[Saga Lout]

At the last count, Joe seemed to me to have a very high number of metrics and I don't see how they can be put together in any meaningful form. Anyway up, that's for the guys and girls with higher minds than mine but my main point is how many folk actually discover the OnMouseHover method of seeing more about the poster they're about to trust with their precious system and files?

I posted for some years into TechSupportGuy until they got too precious over folks without formal qualifications daring to post into security related threads. Point is, the number of your posts and your join date was beside your name in the "most recent post" column on the sub-Forum main page and it remained there until your post was superceded. They seem no longer to do that but it worked well back in the day. Best Answers didn't exist but if one of your posts solved a thread, it counted for something. Your name (or handle) was highlighted as a link to more information about you - more obvious than hovering a mouse - and even the most raw of newbie posters could see at a glance whether they were dealing with someone with serious numbers of posts on the clock and the Forum's reputation was enough to tell them you didn't get there by posting rubbish - just like our reputation here, I hope.

Just one old man's two-pennyworth. 😀

 

[ssddx]

@saga lout

relevant badges do get automatically displayed below your name so you can easily tell who has quite a bit of best answers in that particular category. i think that featue is very nice.

i agree with rolling over a name however i accidentally roll over them with my mouse all the time so i dont think its all that uncommon. the part that i think is confusing is that many of the icons are ambiguous and i think all of them need text overlays to explain what they are at a glance.

i think any veteran status badge should be automatically displayed in much the same way.

i hear what you are saying about reputation... while it certainly is a good thing to advertise this in no way means that you are the only person qualified to answer a post. there are plenty of good answers from people with only a single post however you may want to doublecheck this information or see how their answer compares with others. in fact i suggest that everyone doublechecks my answers and those of anyone else. after all we're only ...h.u.m.a.n...

 

[inzone]

It shouldn't matter how many badges , best answers or posts that you have, if you provide an answer that solves the question then you get credit for that and that can come from a person that's been here 10 years or one day.