1:1 FSB : Ram ratio. Is it necessary for Q9550?

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:pfff:

If you have it, you shouldn't have anything to hide, now would ya?

If you need help, I can explain it to ya. Its not a hard process.

Edit:

Do the research yourself on overvolting... And then you might (but not likely) understand what I meant by losing the signal, or should I say binary code (1 & 0) that your CPU and memory uses to execute data. **** Moron.
 
You know... I've have decided that I do, deeply owe Vertigon an apologee. Only because I do agree to one thing he has commented on.

:cry:

It is my sad duty, to hope that Veritgon, can find... forgivness in his/her? heart for me being retarded. I know I should have heeded Sportsfanboy's warning and just give up. But didn't see what I was really up against.

Veriton.. I am Soooo Soooo sorry that your a PHUCKING MORON. You just can't help it. And if your born that way, well.. There not much you can do about it. Simply because, yes, you stated it, and I totally agree with your previous comment:

Some of gods creatures arent good at learning, hey thats life.

If you are a PHUCKING MORON, whelp, thats just life. I've should have known better, but I guess I'm just retarded.

But.. I truely believe I've learned something from this. I'll never... EVER.. try to explain memory/overvolting/ratio to any PHUCKING MORON again.

I'm sure you all at THG will help me through this.

Sportsfanboy/Jimmy/Stranger - If you ever catch me doing this ever again. Just hit me over the head with a spade. I know its a terrible thing to do to a retard like me, but.. I mean.. a mutt like me, needs to know his limits. I... I... Just can't go on like this. :cry:

Other then that.. I'm looking forward to my VACATION!!! Whoo HOOOO!! 😀
 
Hello,

I stumbled in this topic and between the ratio's questions and replys to vertigon, i figured you guys know your stuff.

I was wondering if it is a good time to buy an AMD cpu.
Is the X4 9950 Black Ed. the best we're gonna get in a whole while from amd, or should i wait for something to pop out any moment?

If i should start a new topic instead of throwing it in here, i'm sorry.
Did it because you guys probably have the right answer!

(I know intel makes better quad cpu's performance wise, but i'm choosing the green team :)
 
I'd say if you waited this long.. you might as well wait a lil longer.

Other then that, if I was going to limit myself to AMD, I'd go for the B/E 9850, for $195.
 
Oh grimmy you stupid fraud, you couldn't answer the question so once again you've gone off on a tangent. Don't you know people realise your hiding behind your ignorance, you love looking clever and you would answer the question ASAP, if you actuall knew what the answer was...bwahahahahahaha.......let me remind you AGAIN:

"So AnandTech up their FSB to 400Mhz, overvolt the ram to get it stable and your saying the RAM is fast and therefore the signal gets lost?????????? Where does it go exactly grimmy ? "

So according to YOUR logic there is an even bigger gap in this test with the OCZ DR3_SDRAM 1800Mhz RAM and only a 400Mhz FSB. Tell me how sending more current through a very fast memory module (which can only make it faster) can help recover a lost signal????? "


Sportsfanboy on page two you made a slanderous remark:

"Your not even good at it, as you lie and contradict yourself all the time. In addition your comment have proved to be inaccurate, with false claims and faulty arguments"

I replied with:

"Can you actually prove any of this or is it like I suspect, another one of your childish emotional rants. So where are the lies exactly, the contradictions and the false claims? Sounds to me like you've resorted to lying about someone else's character, but that's typical of most low lifes."

You couldn't actually point out one single instance where I had lied, contradicted myself or made a false claim. Not even ONE.

So basically you made it evident to the entire forum that your a low life cockroach willing to be dishonest about someone else's character in order to defend your own ignorant position.

The sad bit is your willing to disgrace yourself yet again by making another absurb statement:

"while proving you wrong on just about everything you have whined about for the last three days or what ever."

I challenge you to outline where in those guides does it prove that I have been wrong. It's obvious to me sportsfanboy that your mentally capacity to absorb information is VERY limited much like grimmy's.

The anandtech article defines a 1:1 ratio as:

"Setting 1:1, simply put, means that the memory runs synchronously with the FSB"

Jimmy outlined this in his very first post on page one from memory and provided numbers to suit. Why on earth are you and grimmy still on about this basic ratio??

I am guessing it's because you don't know anything else, truth be told grimmy doesnt even understand the various syncronous timings that go on inside a computer otherwise he would be able to tell my why anandtech overvolted a speedy stick of DDR3. His ridiculous claim is as below:

"The REASON why they had to OVERVOLT DDR3 PC3-14400, is because the memory is fast, and when you try to speed up the FSB (the CPU side) the signal gets lost. Basically, people even do that with DDR2 800 memory like myself."

This statement grimmy is the most profoundly stupid remark I have ever heard on THG, even the most ignorant newbie here isn't guilty of such logic defying rubbish.

According to your retard logic we get some ram that is too fast, we make it alot faster by putting more voltage through it and then we say it's because a signal got lost? Huh? WTF????????

Then when asked how all this works exactly, grimmy the mule is unable to answer. I am intrigued how this could work grimmy, let me see.....my ram is very fast.......it loses signals......so umm let's increase the voltage!!!...bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Have you ever seen a wavelength on an ossilloscope grimmy? Even if you haven't do you think the wavelengths will increase or decrease? So obviously if the number of wavelengths increase doesn't that mean I get more signals? oh doesn't doubling the data rate (DDR) revolve around this signal?

If I am already loosing signals grimmy why on earth would I want to increase the number of waves by overvolting it? So I can statistically increase my chance of loosing more signals? Isn't the whole anadtech overvolting the RAM issue about stability, NOT instability??

As stupid as you are sportsfanboy, at least you have endeavoured to learn by searching for relevant articles, you on the other hand grimmy have done shyte all. I hope someone turns off the power to your trailer grimmy!!!!!
 
Vertigon, be cool.

Thanks for the advice,
Looking more closely to it, the TDP of 130W is holding me back.
Isn't that a little extreme?

When can we expect new improved cpu's from amd?
Are we talking about months or (half)years here?

The gpu choice is easier, i'm waiting for 4870 1GB to show up.
 
so what is the effect on the life of your mobo if you dont have 1:1? Is this just latency timings we're all worried about? Is this something to be concerned about? Will my Q9650 and 4GB DDR2 1200 f*ck up an X48? and create a noticeable bottleneck?

If you could post the exact product link for ram on newegg too that would kick a55

and how do i get the best performance out of all of this?
 
Benne I can't really help you with an AMD choice but there are people here who follow AMD and it's new releaseas closely. Don't be afraid to start a new thread, but do a search first so you can ask questions that haven't already been answered, I think you'll get better quality feedback that way.

Drip the best way to chose your RAM in my opinion is to a) decide if your going to overclock b) if you are, you need to think about what you will overclock to.

If you chose not to, the Q9650 works on a system bus of 333Mhz and a multiplier of 9 giving it a cpu speed of 3Ghz. The RAM you select would ideally also work in multiples of 333, for example a value option is DDR2 667 or the higher option at DDR3 1333. It is not essential to opt for these modules, your DDR2 1200 would simple run a different divider, meaning it won't be at 1:1. Which isn't a big deal at all. At stock speed almost anything you buy will work fine.

If you do decide to OC the X48 chipset is ideal for it. I personally think you'll reach 3.6Ghz comfortably, I'd be surprised if you didn't. To do this your FSB will need to be running at 400Mhz so even DDR2 800 would be a good value choice.
If you chose a gigabyte board you will have the MIT tweaker in bios as well as the CIA2 option along with DES advanced. These will take too long to explain here but basically will allow you to dynamically overclock all the way past 3.6 and save energy when you don't need the power and allow the machine to work anywhere between 2Ghz and 3.6Ghz plus as apposed to just 2.4Ghz and 3.6Ghz only, which won't load up the cores to 100% before increasing the core speed. I think the CIA2 OC option is a brilliant way to have a fast machine working for you all day everyday. To choose this route and run 1:1 you will need some reasonably good quality ram, otherwise you will have stability problems up at the higher end, you don't need to spend a fortune, just not buy the crap stuff.

If your keen and want max power you might do some research because I think your Q9650 will go to 4.05Ghz on a hard clock without overheating and causing "issues". From there on it's enthusiast territory. Good luck.
 
Vertigon, you still have yet to address the OP's question, and still have not proven me wrong about anything. The only thing you have done is insult, while going on a crusade for your"industry convention" which has absolutely nothing to do with why this thread was started in the first place.

Further... like I have said you have not disproved me or Grimmy. You have basically hi-jacked this thread to make a point about what? How about answering the OP's question? Myself, Computronix, Grimmy and others have endorsed my thought process, but oh, sorry , your right and everyone else is wrong. You've made this personal, when all the arguments from everyone else have been so to help the OP with his original question. A question you made no attempt to answer, rather, you just flamed other people for trying, without a shred of evidence, credible source, or backing from anyone on the site.

Stop talking
 


No that RAM is fine. Its basically tested out for its maximum possible speed in that case is 1200MHz. But since your CPU, the Q9650, only has a 1333MHz FSB you would set it to 667MHz in order for it to run at a 1:1 ratio with the FSB. Now you can try and run it at a 2:1 ratio with the FSB by setting it to 1333MHz but I am doubting you will get it stable at that.
 
Sportsfanboy where is the evidence to support your statements made in previous posts?:

"Your not even good at it, as you lie and contradict yourself all the time. In addition your comment have proved to be inaccurate, with false claims and faulty arguments"

and:

"while proving you wrong on just about everything you have whined about for the last three days or what ever."

So if you don't have any evidence sportsfanboy you are by default admitting to being a low life cockroach scumbag maggot who is prepared to make any slanderous remark about anybody with no justification.

 
Dude it's funny how your no longer on me about any computer stuff, your ripping me for ripping you. Yes I call people names sometimes when I get amped up, I'm sorry for that, however you did as well, and you did after all start with me at the beginning of the thread unprovoked. I called you a lier because you said something like(I'm too tired to sift through a hundred post)
"go ask any computer store that you want 1:1". I said you didn't ask that question and you were making false, or made up points.

Again you started the crap with me, not the other way around.
I was just trying to help someone out with a question they had, and you came in all gun ho and high and mighty talking sh-t, that ultimately was either wrong or unproven.

I will however apologize for the contradiction remark, as that was slander...

 
not wanting to flame this fire but can vertigon explain, nice and concisely wtf this so called industry convention has anything to do with this thread?

I think you need to provoke him harder to give you a sophisticated BS answer.
 
Sportsfanboy if people are coming into this forum asking about the 1:1 RAM/CPU ratio as the poster of this very thread is, why is it inconcievable to you that people ask that question in a computer store? Just because nobody ever asked you, doesn't mean it doesn't get asked. It sure gets asked here doesn't it? Refer:

"go ask any computer store that you want 1:1". I said you didn't ask that question and you were making false, or made up points."

So there's nothing false about that point. People do ask it, as they have here.

"I will however apologize for the contradiction remark, as that was slander... "

Appology accepted. Theres no point is discrediting someone falsely, it only harms your image here as it doesn't take much to read through a thread to know someones lying.

Grimmy I noticed your avoiding the question/s yet again and once again have gone off on a tangent to disguise your own ignorance. Where is that lost signal of yours? Also you never explained the illogic behind the stupidity.

MULE

 


Umm... Errr... Wat question/s am I'm not addressing, yet again buddy?

You didn't even answer Stangerstragers single question. What, am I the only one that has your attention?

And you accept sportsfanboy's apology for.. lying and discrediting you? :lol:

You can't even post a simple validation of your system.

As far as I'm concerned, you refuse just about anything I say, at all.

So go on thinking that all CPU's with 1333FSB runs DDR3 1333 at a 1:1 ratio.

That is how simple you see things.. 1333FSB:1333 DDR3 Gee, that must be a 1:1 ratio, it's Industry Convention!!!

I've even posted this from Anandtech Article that you used to prove me wrong, but that just proves you wrong:

9x333

And the article doesn't even explain anything about memory ratio's.

Again.. All I can say is that I'm so sorry that your a **** Moron.
 
Grimmy the mule said:

Umm... Errr... Wat question/s am I'm not addressing, yet again buddy?

Can't you read you fcuking dumb animal?

"Grimmy I noticed your avoiding the question/s yet again and once again have gone off on a tangent to disguise your own ignorance. Where is that lost signal of yours? Also you never explained the illogic behind the stupidity.

MULE "

From page 3:

""The REASON why they had to OVERVOLT DDR3 PC3-14400, is because the memory is fast, and when you try to speed up the FSBhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSB (the CPU side) the signal gets lost. Basically, people even do that with DDR2 800 memory like myself."

So anandtechhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnandTech up their FSB to 400Mhz, overvolt the ram to get it stable and your saying the RAM is fast and therefore the signal gets lost?????????? Where does it go exactly grimmy? lol. Also doesn't this contradict what you said on page 2:

"Tell me Vertigon, how do ya get a ratio of 1:1 when your running your ram slower, and why you think you have no headroom? 666mhz is an aweful long ways from 450mhz."

So according to YOUR logic there is an even bigger gap in this test with the OCZ DDR3 1800Mhz RAM and only a 400Mhz FSB. Tell me how sending more current through a very fast memory module (which can only make it faster) can help recover a lost signal????? So if your sending more current through fast RAM to find a signal, because like you said "The REASON why they had to OVERVOLT DDR3 PC3-14400, is because the memory is fast" why are you overvolting your DDR2 800, which doesn't even run at half the speed of the OCZ anandtech used?

Is your head made of rat shyte or something? Are you that incredibly stupid to think overvolting something that you already claim is too fast is suppose to find a lost signal???? You don't even understand the basics you stupid assclown."

DON'T HIDE BIATCH, YOU STUPID ASSCLOWN

 


You are such a **** Moron. You can't even google to understand why people overvolt, and now you want an answer from me. How **** touching is that?

Here, since you can't do it on your own:

WHAT DOES OVERVOLTING ACTUALLY DO? HOW DOES OVERVOLTING HELP US OVERCLOCK?

To begin, it is best to explain exactly what overvoltage accomplishes, and how voltage works in the first place. If you want to get right into the theoretical overclocking side of things, and aren%u2019t curious at all about how it all works, feel free to skip this very lengthy bit %u2013 or come back to it later on.

Overvolting does not increase overclocking potential by giving our hardware "more juice" or "more fuel". It increases overclocking potential by altering signal strength.

Our computers use a language of 1s and 0s %u2013 the binary language of computer processes. Physically speaking, these 1s and 0s occur through voltage highs and voltage lows, two signals representing a 0 (voltage low), and a 1 (voltage high). 0V typically represents voltage low, referred to as VSS. Voltage high is typically referred to as VCC, VDD, or VCORE, and is a variable voltage, dependant on the specific piece of hardware in question, and the transistor type used within that hardware (For example, a 90nm Athlon64 3200+ has a stock VCORE of 1.5V. A 90nm intel 540J 3200 MHz Pentium 4 has a stock VCORE of 1.4V).

So, 0V (voltage low, or VSS) is treated as a 0. A voltage close to Voltage high (VCC/VDD/VCORE), is treated as a 1. Our transistor-based hardware is essentially a massive grid of constantly switching voltages, representing logic 1s and logic 0s %u2013 the binary language in a nutshell.

The point of importance to us as overclockers here, is the "If our processor sees a voltage close to Voltage high (VCC/VDD/VCORE), it treats it as a 1." bit. Because of various resistances, our hardware%u2019s transistors must have a tolerance for voltage high %u2013 the exact value of VCORE/VDD/VCC is rarely seen. From now on, I am going to refer to voltage high as VCORE, for simplicity%u2019s sake.

Lets use an example to explain this tolerance, where we have a transistor voltage high (VCORE) of 1.4V, and a tolerance of ~5%. If the stock VCORE is 1.4V, and a signal of ~1.35V is seen, it will be regarded as a 1 (the tolerance allows for a ~5% loss of voltage high %u2013 or a minimum of ~1.33V). The really interesting bit for us, is that when the tolerance threshold is exceeded, our hardware starts to mess up. In our little example (with a ~5% tolerance, and a 1.4V transistor), if a voltage of 1.25V were to be seen, it would likely be regarded as a 0 instead of the 1 it was supposed to be %u2013 tolerance has been exceeded. Our signal strength (the signal itself being the voltage) has weakened enough that the tolerance is exceeded, and our hardware makes a mistake %u2013 stability is compromised! Most modern transistors have a tolerance ranging from ~2% through ~10%.

Overclocking our hardware can throw our voltage signals out of tolerance, and cause problems when a 1 (VCORE, voltage high) is mistaken for a 0 (VSS, voltage low).

The best way to explain how this happens when we overclock, through use of imagery, is through the use of a runner. This runner is running back and forth on a 100 foot track. He can either be at one end of the track (Voltage high - VCORE), or at the other end of the track (Voltage low - VSS). But, our runner cannot immediately switch from one end of the track to the other (and likewise, our VSS cannot switch to VCORE instantly). There is a transitional period where our runner is partway between the different ends of the track. The runner is rapidly running from one end of the track to the other (this is the same as our signal switching from VSS to VCORE), and although he is quite quick, there is still a delay between each end of the track (there is also a delay when our voltage signal switches from VSS to VCORE).

The rate at which he is expected to get from one end of the track to the other in ten minutes is our frequency, similar to the frequency at which our hardware operates. At a "stock", un-overclocked frequency, the runner is easily capable of making it to either end of the track in time. The frequency of %u2018on%u2019/%u2019off%u2019 signals %u2013 voltage high and voltage low signals - representing 1s and 0s, is how fast our hardware can %u2018think%u2019 and process. When we overclock, we increase the frequency at which the runner needs to make it from one end of the track to the other (we increase the frequency at which our signal needs to switch from VSS to VCORE), and we shorten the amount of transitionary time allowed for the runner to make it to the other end of the track (when we overclock the frequency, we shorten the amount of transition time allowed for VSS to switch to VCORE).

We increase the frequency (overclocking), and we get to the point where it is impossible for our runner to completely make it to each end of the track in the amount of transition time that he is given. The runner is simply not given enough time to make transit from one end of the track to the other, given the extreme frequency rate expected of him. Now our transistor tolerance comes in. The runner only really needs to make it to the 95 foot mark on the track in order for his run to be registered as a 1 (A 5% tolerance). Increasing the frequency slightly (and as such shortening the transition time the runner is given), the runner is still able to make it to the 95 foot mark, before he has to head back towards the other end of the track in order to meet his frequency schedule. But when we increase the frequency too much, the runner cannot even make it to the 95 foot mark before he has to turn back towards the other end of the track to meet his frequency schedule (VSS cannot switch to VCORE completely within the transitionary time allowed). Our runner only makes it to, say, the 90 foot mark, and is no longer within the tolerance %u2013 his run is counted as a 0 instead of as the 1 it is supposed to be. This represents an overclocked an unstable processor.

In our transistor based hardware, it takes time for the VSS voltage low (0V) to switch to our VCORE voltage high. When we overclock our frequency, we shorten the length of time available for that transition to take place. When there is inadequate time for VSS to change to VCORE, the signal (the signal itself being voltage) doesn%u2019t make it all the way to VCORE %u2013 at a certain point our transistor%u2019s voltage high signal tolerance is exceeded, and the VCORE signal is not strong enough to be registered as a 1 anymore. Instability occurs as a result %u2013 our 1s are being mistaken for 0s, and the computer cannot make sense of it.

Overvolting can alleviate this problem. The issue lies in the amount of time that it takes for the signal to change from VSS to VCORE %u2013 the signal can%u2019t switch quickly enough to reach a strength recognizeable as a voltage high (VCORE) by our transistors. When we increase our voltage high value (overvolting), we force the signal/voltage to reach a higher voltage high, but in the same amount of time as before. We stretch out the %u2018range of motion%u2019 (the difference between VSS and VCORE), but we leave the transition time alone. The result is that it takes considerably less time for the signal to switch from VSS to a VCORE that is within transistor tolerance %u2013 this accommodates our faster switching frequency, and keeps our overclocked signal switching frequency strong (stable) and within transistor tolerance.

Lets go back to our runners. Now we have two runners, and shall compare them in order to explain how overvolting alleviates the problem of inadequate signal transition time %u2013 which directly leads to instability. In this example, the measurement %u2018feet%u2019 represents voltage signal strength, and the measurement %u2018time%u2019 represents the transition period between VSS and VCORE. Runner #1 can run 100 feet in 20 seconds (Stock VCORE), Runner #2 can run 110 feet in 20 seconds (VCORE overvolted by 10%). Runner #1 can run 5 feet per second. Runner #2 can run 5.5 feet per second. Our overvolted signal switches slightly faster than our stock signal, in the same time period, just as runner #2 can run further in the same time period. Please keep in mind that this is a simple example for explanation, and that signal switching speed is not so linear as "10% overvolt=10% signal switching speed increase".

At a stock frequency, we have 20 seconds to get within transistor tolerance, say it%u2019s 5%, or 95 feet. Both runners make it. Now we overclock our frequency, and shorten the amount of time in which the runners have to get within our transistor tolerance of 95 feet. We increase the frequency, and shorten the transition time to 18 seconds. Runner #2, running at 5.5 feet per second, makes it to the 99 foot mark in 18 seconds, he is within tolerance, and his run is correctly counted as a 1. Runner #1 isn%u2019t fast enough. He makes it to the 90 foot mark in 18 seconds, and is not within the tolerance. Runner #1%u2019s run is incorrectly counted as a 0, and we have instability. In this manner, increasing signal switching speed to directly increase signal strength, overvolting allow us to increase our frequency (overclocking), without compromising stability when we also shorten the signal switching transition period.

That about sums up how voltage works in our transistor based hardware, as well as the effect that overvoltage has on increasing our hardware%u2019s stable overclock potential.

I hope all that doesn't overload your fricken brain.

Edit:

On the 2nd thought.. I hope it does. 😛

Edit:

Oh and your second part of your question. Look at Jimmy's system:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600

381014.png


Freq : 3005.88 MHz (333.99 * 9) <-FSB
RAM Speed : 334 MHz (1:1) @ 4-4-4-12 <-DRAM

1:1 RATIO

That is quite different from what I post about that you left out.

9x333

Not to mention that they are NOT trying to run the MEMORY @ a 1:1 RATIO.

NOW LEAVE ME ALONE, YOU PHUCKEN MORON SCHITT HEAD.
 
Why people overvolt isn't the question you brain dead thick fcuk. The question is how does your stupid analogy make sense? Oh and where does the signal go when it gets lost you fcuking worthless retard bucket of shyte.

God, I know your super thick but how many times do you have to be asked the same old shyte you stupid ******.