News 16-Pin Power Connector Gets A Much-Needed Revision, Meet The New 12V-2x6 Connector

[Admin]

Igor's Lab reports that PCI-SIG has revised the 12VHPWR power connector, with the updated version being marketed as the 12V-2x6 connector.

16-Pin Power Connector Gets A Much-Needed Revision, Meet The New 12V-2x6 Connector : Read more

 

[bit_user]

I think they had to at least appear to do something, after all the reputational damage the 12VHPWR took, regardless of whether or not it was all entirely deserved.

And let's hope it doesn't really take until PCIe 6.0 to roll out, though backwards compatibility probably means it won't.

 

[-Fran-]

Any improvements to safety are welcome in any high powered part!

I wonder if AMD will adopt this connector now for the next gen and if nVidia will update the connector for the refresh (if there is one) or next gen.

Given the cycles, maybe for the next next gen?

Regards.

 

[torbjorn.lindgren]

Whether the root cause for the melting connectors is/was "user error" or not doesn't really matter, at best they messed up by making the specification too loose and/or too hard to use properly/safely.

The retention clip on them are clearly not good enough for example, on many it's possible to wiggle the connector far too much with it inserted fully and latched, and the latch also lacks a "positive feedback" which the previous connector had. Arguably they should probably have gone to two latches for this wider connector but it was likely hard to do and stay compatible.

In short, it may well be that technically all the melted connectors ARE user errors, but that doesn't mean the PCI-SIG is blameless here or that they shouldn't improve it so that it's no longer a "gotcha" connector.

 

[Rdslw]

Any improvements to safety are welcome in any high powered part!

The amount of juice we push through such tiny cables is already concerning. I double down on that, revision of those cables was long overdue.

 

[RodroX]

Good news for those few who were able to upgrade the GPU. Bad news is you may have to upgrade again, if you want the piece of mind. And of course pay nvidia once again.

Most peple in my country are still rocking pre-GTX 1060 era GPUs, so we are ok here !!!

 

[vinay2070]

I have a feeling there will still be burned connectors despite this change, tho they may be few. That is too much power for such a small package. Why not just use 16 or even 20 wires.

 

[InvalidError]

168h connector lifespan at 105C... time for everyone who freaked out when they found out that PCIe slots and most other internal PC connectors are only rated for 10 cycles to freak out again!

GPUs should just have a thermistor or two to monitor connector pins temperature (put a ground and power polygon just below the thermistors on the top or bottom layer to conduct pin heat, then do some modelling to map thermistor temperature to actual connector temperature) and throttle as necessary. Doesn't do anything for the PSU-side connector though, that would require adding a control pin to let the PSU tell the GPU to hold back if you don't want the PSU to outright shut off.

 

[bit_user]

Why not just use 16 or even 20 wires.

Or use 48V at 1/4th the current, but that would require a new PSU.

 

[kiniku]

We have to idiot proof a connector. No problem whatsoever with my 16 pin ATX 3.0 connector to my MSI 4090 Supreme. Just connect it snugly. Jeez.

 

[foxrox]

To make this new connection totally right they would be wise to include thumb screws on each side of the connection like an old VGA or DVI video, or serial port, cable. With that change there would be no reliance on a chintzy clip and no way the cable could come loose or not be firmly seated. You would simply tighten the thumb screws until the cable housing was bottomed out into the cable socket and enjoy never having to check on it again.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Skipping the all-new model year is always a good idea.

 

[JeffreyP55]

Igor's Lab reports that PCI-SIG has revised the 12VHPWR power connector, with the updated version being marketed as the 12V-2x6 connector.

16-Pin Power Connector Gets A Much-Needed Revision, Meet The New 12V-2x6 Connector : Read more

Common US Wire Gauges – AWG Gauges Vs Current Ratings - Resources For Electrical & Electronic Engineers

The AWG – American Wire Gauge – is used as a standard method denoting wire diameter, measuring the diameter of the conductor (the bare wire) with the insulation removed. AWG is sometime…

electricalengineering123.com

 

[Papusan]

What more to say?

All you gain with the slight redesign is that the 12V-2x6 connector will be backwards compatible with12VHPWR connectors. + a few less cases with burned up graphics cards. But this don't eliminate the major problem. This is almost as put "lipstick on a pig". Its still a pig. Pig or plug, does it matter, HaHa

 

[InvalidError]

Or use 48V at 1/4th the current, but that would require a new PSU.

The time to screw around with standards was when Intel/California announced 12VO. It should have been either 20V to allow pass-through feeding of 20V USB-PD devices or 24V. Beyond 30V, high-current MOSFETs start getting pretty expensive (about twice as much by the time you get to 50V) and you need your low-side 50+A FETs to survive the bulk supply voltage when the high-side is on, not to mention that higher voltage FETs typically have higher channel resistance and gate charge, especially if you are trying to keep the cost down. It is much of the same story with capacitors on the high-side: ESRs, ESLs and prices shoot up quite a bit beyond 35V. Switching losses scale with supply voltage too.

Datacenter stuff can run on 48V because they don't mind having to spend $300 more on fancier FETs, transformers and support components to make their 50k$ machines work more efficiently from a higher system power distribution voltage. For consumer stuff though, you need to stay within the realm of cheap-and-cheerful components and minimum parts count designs.

 

[jp7189]

Or use 48V at 1/4th the current, but that would require a new PSU.

^this^
Less amps = smaller wires or less of them. Either way more flexible cables and less concern with bending and strain.

 

[jp7189]

We have to idiot proof a connector. No problem whatsoever with my 16 pin ATX 3.0 connector to my MSI 4090 Supreme. Just connect it snugly. Jeez.

Mostly agree, but I had to bend mine pretty tightly to get the side panel on. If I were pulling the panel off and on a lot it might become a problem.

 

[TJ Hooker]

The amount of juice we push through such tiny cables is already concerning. I double down on that, revision of those cables was long overdue.

There's no indication they're making any changes to the power-carrying wires/pins for this new connector, FYI.

 

[InvalidError]

^this^
Less amps = smaller wires or less of them. Either way more flexible cables and less concern with bending and strain.

Or just don't use a connector that uses pins rated for only 1/6th the total current and relies heavily on sufficiently good load balancing between pins to prevent a meltdown. Use something like an EC5 or XT90 that can pass the full current pretty much all-day every day on a single pin each way, then the balance issue is eliminated altogether and you also get pins that can tolerate a whole lot more abuse than pins and receivers stamped out of almost paper-thin sheet metal.

 

[torbjorn.lindgren]

I have a feeling there will still be burned connectors despite this change, tho they may be few. That is too much power for such a small package. Why not just use 16 or even 20 wires.

It doesn't need more wires/cables, der8auer showed that with a pair of 8-pin connectors and running 200+W (PCIe power only) it was fine on two 12V and two ground cables (one to each 8-pin), the cables didn't even get that hot despite this being a test bench with no airflow, a case would have had even lower temperature delta.

And he mentioned 18 AWG cables, AFAIK that's the smallest allowed? and it's not uncommon to use the significantly thicker 16 AWG for PCIe cables rated at twice the power. I assume that this is to get a nice big safety margin on those "PSU to two 6+2 connectors".

So we need more or better connectors rather than more cables.

I admit that the common 6+2-pin combo connectors can be a pain to get inserted at times in some cards (6 or 8-pins are fine, it's the +2 that's messing it all up) but the combination of a larger connector, much more solid latching and audible feedback made it much harder to get it wrong. Yes, the 6/8-pin connectors can also melt but it's a lot less common.

 

[bit_user]

To make this new connection totally right they would be wise to include thumb screws on each side of the connection like an old VGA or DVI video, or serial port, cable.

And how many times have you seen those connectors with the screws either not engaged, or only one side partly screwed in? For those of us with deep roots in the era when such connectors were common, the correct answer would be: lots.

Not to mention all the times I unscrewed one of those thumbscrews and it instead unscrewed the nut thingy from the device rather than disengaging the cable from it.

A latch that's obvious when it is/isn't engaged is better. I also like the idea of coloring the contact portion of the connector with a bright, highly-contrasting color vs. the other parts, so you can easily see when it's not fully inserted. Credit to MSI, for that idea. I can't find an article about it on Toms, but you can find it elsewhere.

The best idea would probably be to have short, "sense" contacts, on each side of the connector block. Those can tell the card and/or PSU detect when the connector isn't fully-inserted.

 

[bit_user]

Or just don't use a connector that uses pins rated for only 1/6th the total current and relies heavily on sufficiently good load balancing between pins to prevent a meltdown. Use something like an EC5 or XT90 that can pass the full current pretty much all-day every day on a single pin each way,

Uh, how big would those be?

 

[russell_john]

Any improvements to safety are welcome in any high powered part!

I wonder if AMD will adopt this connector now for the next gen and if nVidia will update the connector for the refresh (if there is one) or next gen.

Given the cycles, maybe for the next next gen?

Regards.

Safety was never an issue with this. Flameproof plastic melting is not a fire hazard which is why they use flameproof plastics. You can point a blow torch at that connector and it still won't catch fire, all it does is melt. There is not a single case of one of these starting a fire or producing a flame when overloaded, just melting

All that was at issue was your graphics card or power supply having to be RMA'd and you being without a computer. I repeat there was no safety issue here

 

[russell_john]

We have to idiot proof a connector. No problem whatsoever with my 16 pin ATX 3.0 connector to my MSI 4090 Supreme. Just connect it snugly. Jeez.

We engineers have a saying that's at least 40 years old

"There is no such a thing as idiot proof because idiots are so damned ingenious"

If there is a way to screw something up an idiot is going to find it

 

[InvalidError]

And how many times have you seen those connectors with the screws either not engaged, or only one side partly screwed in? For those of us with deep roots in the era when such connectors were common, the correct answer would be: lots.

Heh. I rarely bothered screwing those in after discovering that they hardly ever fell out on their own and were often a pain in the ass to screw in or unscrew. That is when the port screw-nut doesn't come off of the card instead of/with the cable's screw, which is a double pain in the ass if you don't have the appropriate size socket to put it back on correctly and at that size, it is quite easy to over-torque it and strip the hole. I never bothered screwing cables in more than a few turns after my first stripped connector threads.

Uh, how big would those be?

An XT90 connector is roughly 20x10x30mm (WHL), about the same width and height as an 8+2 connector but 10mm longer.

The XT90 connector was designed for drones, recreative EVs and other relatively vibration-harsh environments. A more PC-friendly variant could probably shave most of that extra 10mm down..