[SOLVED] 200mm fan up and huge cooler

[ioannis2015v]

Hello, I am finishing my build list but I would like to make sure everything is compatible. So, the case I will use is the CoolerMaster MC 500 which has by default 2 200mm fans in front and 1 120 rear. So I want to buy and add 1 more 200mm fan up (same with the front) but I want to ask 3 questions:
1st: what is better, the up fan to take out the air so they will be 2 exhaust fans (up there is a magnetic filter) or to take in air but remains 1 exhaust fan and more dust in the case?
2nd: what is better for the up fan, 1 200mm or 2 140mm? For me it's cheaper and easier to put 1 200mm (both for price and fan slots) but is there any huge difference if there are 2 140?
Last but not least, I am going to have a Dark rock 4 pro, so I want to be sure that the up fan doesn't touch with the cooler. From coolermaster's site I can't know because they have photos with liquid cooler.
Can anyone help me? Thanks...

 

[thx1138v2]

You can't just look at fans to know how your air flow will work. You also have to consider how the components are placed inside the case. I recommend you put it all together and then check air flow by removing the case side panel.

If it runs substantially cooler with the side panel off, then look at adding fans.

 

[ioannis2015v]

You can't just look at fans to know how your air flow will work. You also have to consider how the components are placed inside the case. I recommend you put it all together and then check air flow by removing the case side panel.

If it runs substantially cooler with the side panel off, then look at adding fans.

I want to buy the fan the same time with the other components to finish with this stuff

 

[Phaaze88]

Take the 2x 200mm front fans and put them at the top, and get 3 of their RGB Masterfans to put at the front instead:
PCPartPicker Part List

Case Fan: Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Flow RGB 3 in 1 with RGB LED Controller 53 CFM 140 mm Fans ($39.90 @ OutletPC)
Total: $39.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-08-29 12:04 EDT-0400

There is a misconception about 200mm+ fans moving tons of air. This is not true. 200mm fans suck for anything other than exhaust, and even that is just 'ok'.
They have high CFM ratings, but poor static pressure. What this translates to: they are moving next to no air when faced with even a single obstacle, i.e., as intakes, of which there are at least 3 - pulling through the case grille, fan filters, and anything else in between.
They are 'ok' as exhaust, as they're only fighting against the case grille. 120 and 140mm fans are just flat out superior in both performance and noise.

 

[ioannis2015v]

Take the 2x 200mm front fans and put them at the top, and get 3 of their RGB Masterfans to put at the front instead:
PCPartPicker Part List

Case Fan: Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Flow RGB 3 in 1 with RGB LED Controller 53 CFM 140 mm Fans ($39.90 @ OutletPC)
Total: $39.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-08-29 12:04 EDT-0400

There is a misconception about 200mm+ fans moving tons of air. This is not true. 200mm fans suck for anything other than exhaust, and even that is just 'ok'.
They have high CFM ratings, but poor static pressure. What this translates to: they are moving next to no air when faced with even a single obstacle, i.e., as intakes, of which there are at least 3 - pulling through the case grille, fan filters, and anything else in between.
They are 'ok' as exhaust, as they're only fighting against the case grille. 120 and 140mm fans are just flat out superior in both performance and noise.

But firstly, this case supports only 1 200mm fan in the top, so the second can't be used and secondly I don't want to spend that much money for buying new fans.

 

[Phaaze88]

1)I can't see where the placement for the top fan goes, but:
-if the top fan slot is located at the back, then do top exhaust
-if it's in the front, then it's best left empty

2)The answer for this is already in my 1st post: 2x 140s will exhaust more air than a single 200mm. If budget is that tight, a 200mm will work too.

3)You are confusing the cooler height clearance with the wrong side of the case. 'Cooler clearance' refers to the distance from the bottom of the cooler to the case's side panel, not the top panel.
Did you bother to scroll down? The specs are at the bottom of the page: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/mid-tower/mastercase-mc500/ (190mm cpu cooler clearance)
Dark Rock Pro 4 is 163mm. If you intend to add ram with tall heatsinks, you will have to account for the height increase.

 

[ioannis2015v]

1)I can't see where the placement for the top fan goes, but:
-if the top fan slot is located at the back, then do top exhaust
-if it's in the front, then it's best left empty

2)The answer for this is already in my 1st post: 2x 140s will exhaust more air than a single 200mm. If budget is that tight, a 200mm will work too.

3)You are confusing the cooler height clearance with the wrong side of the case. 'Cooler clearance' refers to the distance from the bottom of the cooler to the case's side panel, not the top panel.
Did you bother to scroll down? The specs are at the bottom of the page: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/cases/mid-tower/mastercase-mc500/ (190mm cpu cooler clearance)
Dark Rock Pro 4 is 163mm. If you intend to add ram with tall heatsinks, you will have to account for the height increase.

Thank you a lot for giving me nice answers and for your time given to my question.
*1) I think that the fan slot is in the middle (where the radiator of liquid cooler is in this photo).
**2)Ok so, Can I put 2 140mm ARGB fans? Because I don't find Coolermaster's 140mm rgb fans in my region. Only argb. Is it a problem?
***3) Lastly, I wanted to say that if there is any chance the cooler's width affects the top fan. Perhaps not, right?

 

[Phaaze88]

Thank you a lot for giving me nice answers and for your time given to my question.
*1) I think that the fan slot is in the middle (where the radiator of liquid cooler is in this photo).
**2)Ok so, Can I put 2 140mm ARGB fans? Because I don't find Coolermaster's 140mm rgb fans in my region. Only argb. Is it a problem?
***3) Lastly, I wanted to say that if there is any chance the cooler's width affects the top fan. Perhaps not, right?

1)So the 200mm would be sitting right over the cooler... then set it for exhaust. Same for 2x 140s.
2)Yes you can. Just don't plug them into your motherboard's fan headers. The mobo will have separate fan and RGB headers.
3)Nope. But there is the possibility of obstructing the gpu slot. Fortunately, be quiet! has a motherboard compatibility checker tool for you to use: https://www.bequiet.com/en/motherboardcheck

 

[ioannis2015v]

Ok, thank you very very very much!!! You helped me a lot! Could I ask you 1 last question about the rgb fans???

 

[digitalgriffin]

Take the 2x 200mm front fans and put them at the top, and get 3 of their RGB Masterfans to put at the front instead:
PCPartPicker Part List

Case Fan: Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Flow RGB 3 in 1 with RGB LED Controller 53 CFM 140 mm Fans ($39.90 @ OutletPC)
Total: $39.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-08-29 12:04 EDT-0400

There is a misconception about 200mm+ fans moving tons of air. This is not true. 200mm fans suck for anything other than exhaust, and even that is just 'ok'.
They have high CFM ratings, but poor static pressure. What this translates to: they are moving next to no air when faced with even a single obstacle, i.e., as intakes, of which there are at least 3 - pulling through the case grille, fan filters, and anything else in between.
They are 'ok' as exhaust, as they're only fighting against the case grille. 120 and 140mm fans are just flat out superior in both performance and noise.

You cant judge a fan without looking at its fan curve and how its being used.

Take a look at the following:

The red lines represent a fan at a given rpm. The single exponential line that is growing from the origin represents do not use line. Anything to the right of that curve is usable. To the left of that line is worthless operating points.

Now as your static pressure goes up for a given rpm, you will note that your flow rate goes down. Your static pressure represents the amount of back pressure or resistance a fan is encountering. Some fans have much steeper rpm slopes here (pressure focused fans) which are good for radiators and heavy filters. Other fans are geared for flat (low negative second derivative) rpm curves which are cfm focused.

So unless you are an experienced expert can you look at a fan and say it would be ideal for x y z.

Now 200mm fans DO move more cfm due to their large surface area. This allows them to move air at a lower face velocity to achieve the same airflow. This has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is it runs quieter and more evenly covers a wider area. The disadvantage is it might have a lower static pressure. Pstatic = Pmoving + .5pv*v But again this all depends on fan blade design and rpm.

I have some cooler master MF140AP that are just rubbish. I can barely feel the air coming off them even at 3/4 their rated rpm. At $10/fan its barely worth it because it would take a couple of them to match a quality fan in terms of airflow.

 

[Phaaze88]

Ok, thank you very very very much!!! You helped me a lot! Could I ask you 1 last question about the rgb fans???

Such as?

You cant judge a fan without looking at its fan curve and how its being used.

Take a look at the following:

The red lines represent a fan at a given rpm. The single exponential line that is growing from the origin represents do not use line. Anything to the right of that curve is usable. To the left of that line is worthless operating points.

Now as your static pressure goes up for a given rpm, you will note that your flow rate goes down. Your static pressure represents the amount of back pressure or resistance a fan is encountering. Some fans have much steeper rpm slopes here (pressure focused fans) which are good for radiators and heavy filters. Other fans are geared for flat (low negative second derivative) rpm curves which are cfm focused.

So unless you are an experienced expert can you look at a fan and say it would be ideal for x y z.

Now 200mm fans DO move more cfm due to their large surface area. This allows them to move air at a lower face velocity to achieve the same airflow. This has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is it runs quieter and more evenly covers a wider area. The disadvantage is it might have a lower static pressure. Pstatic = Pmoving + .5pv*v But again this all depends on fan blade design and rpm.

I have some cooler master MF140AP that are just rubbish. I can barely feel the air coming off them even at 3/4 their rated rpm. At $10/fan its barely worth it because it would take a couple of them to match a quality fan in terms of airflow.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data-2.html
The reality is that there is always some form of resistance present... even in an open air bench, and more often than not, the fan(s) with lower CFM and higher SP will move more air than those with higher CFM and lower SP.

Your statements about 200mm fans is true to a point - no resistance.
They move more air over a larger surface area against a single 120 or 140mm with no resistance - but since that scenario doesn't exist in reality, instead it changes to-
they move air over a larger surface area against a single 120 or 140mm.

Also, when is moving air over a wider angle actually useful? Exhaust. Certainly not ideal as intake. I would want my intake airflow to be more narrow and direct as it's moving from one end of the case to the other.
In this regard, fans(SP) intended for radiators make for better intakes than these 'airflow focused' models.


A $10 fan... while it doesn't always apply... "You get what you pay for."
It wouldn't surprise me that fan would perform worse than one of CM's $20, 200mm Megaflows.

 

[ioannis2015v]

Such as?

This case includes a splitter cable for 3 fans, so I can put both the 2 front 200mm rgb fans and the extra top 200mm rgb fan on this and then on the motherboard rgb header (jrgb) slot and each fan on a sys fan slot too. So what I want to ask is if it's better to put only the 2 front rgb fans to the splitter and then to the rgb header and the other top rgb fan directly to the second rgb header (jrgb2) so less fans share the same header. Is it better this way? (The case also includes an rgb controller but I would prefer not to use it except if it's necessary)

 

[Phaaze88]

This case includes a splitter cable for 3 fans, so I can put both the 2 front 200mm rgb fans and the extra top 200mm rgb fan on this and then on the motherboard rgb header (jrgb) slot and each fan on a sys fan slot too. So what I want to ask is if it's better to put only the 2 front rgb fans to the splitter and then to the rgb header and the other top rgb fan directly to the second rgb header (jrgb2) so less fans share the same header. Is it better this way? (The case also includes an rgb controller but I would prefer not to use it except if it's necessary)

It's fine to connect all 3x 200mm on the splitter, but you can't - shouldn't, try to connect the RGB header, as you will damage the motherboard.
The RGB header has it's own designated connections to the motherboard, it isn't interchangeable with the fan headers.

If the mobo doesn't have enough RGB headers, you will have to use the controller.

 

[digitalgriffin]

Such as?


https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data-2.html
The reality is that there is always some form of resistance present... even in an open air bench, and more often than not, the fan(s) with lower CFM and higher SP will move more air than those with higher CFM and lower SP.

Your statements about 200mm fans is true to a point - no resistance.
They move more air over a larger surface area against a single 120 or 140mm with no resistance - but since that scenario doesn't exist in reality, instead it changes to-
they move air over a larger surface area against a single 120 or 140mm.

Also, when is moving air over a wider angle actually useful? Exhaust. Certainly not ideal as intake. I would want my intake airflow to be more narrow and direct as it's moving from one end of the case to the other.
In this regard, fans(SP) intended for radiators make for better intakes than these 'airflow focused' models.


A $10 fan... while it doesn't always apply... "You get what you pay for."
It wouldn't surprise me that fan would perform worse than one of CM's $20, 200mm Megaflows.

As recently reviewed by Steve of Gamers Nexus a cooler master 200mm AIO using a 200mm fan. It matches the Corsair H100i in terms of performance @ 40dB. It does even better with a 200mm Noctua fan. But it has limitations.

The problem being larger fans are harder to balance well and maintain a decent speed. So their RPMs are often lower. This limits this face velocity. So you are getting near max performance out of the box. But it's competitive with other AIO's at a similar volume level. And this is one of the primary reasons you buy an AIO: It's quieter than most standard air based fan coolers.

 

[ioannis2015v]

Wait

It's fine to connect all 3x 200mm on the splitter, but you can't - shouldn't, try to connect the RGB header, as you will damage the motherboard.
The RGB header has it's own designated connections to the motherboard, it isn't interchangeable with the fan headers.

If the mobo doesn't have enough RGB headers, you will have to use the controller.

Wait, I can't plug 3 total rgb fans because my mobo has 2 rgb header? I think that if only 2 fans share the same rgb header and not 3 fans, it would be ok

 

[Phaaze88]

I have the CM H500P Mesh, and it came with an RGB 3x LED splitter cable. I had to look around my room for it, because I don't use it.
I guess you would have to give CM a call and see if it's included in the Mastercase 500.

 

[ioannis2015v]

I have the CM H500P Mesh, and it came with an RGB 3x LED splitter cable. I had to look around my room for it, because I don't use it.
I guess you would have to give CM a call and see if it's included in the Mastercase 500.

I know that H500 includes a 3 to 1 splitter cable. Why I can't put 2 rgb fans on this and then to jrgb1 (rgb header saying about 12v led strips by msi) and the other rgb fan to the jrgb2?

 

[Phaaze88]

I know that H500 includes a 3 to 1 splitter cable. Why I can't put 2 rgb fans on this and then to jrgb1 (rgb header saying about 12v led strips by msi) and the other rgb fan to the jrgb2?

It wasn't designed that way. The fan headers/power are 12V, RGB ones are 5V.
If you put a 12V fan cable in a 5V RGB header, you can kiss the RGB and possibly the motherboard goodbye.

 

[ioannis2015v]

It wasn't designed that way. The fan headers/power are 12V, RGB ones are 5V.
If you put a 12V fan cable in a 5V RGB header, you can kiss the RGB and possibly the motherboard goodbye.

I don't understand. They told me that if i don't want to use the rgb controller, I will have to put each fan on a rgb header and their other cable to the sys fan slot. That's the way they told me that I should connect my rgb fans because I want to use Mystic Light. Is that wrong?

 

[Phaaze88]

I don't understand. They told me that if i don't want to use the rgb controller, I will have to put each fan on a rgb header and their other cable to the sys fan slot. That's the way they told me that I should connect my rgb fans because I want to use Mystic Light. Is that wrong?

I could be wrong, since I don't use the RGB in my case at all, but you shouldn't need that controller.
[I made a mistake earlier, thinking the controller and splitter were connected. They're separate.]
If your motherboard doesn't have enough RGB headers, you have to use the RGB splitter, and the splitter can be directly connected to the motherboard. Then there's just the matter of syncing it with Mystic Light.

 

[ioannis2015v]

I could be wrong, since I don't use the RGB in my case at all, but you shouldn't need that controller.
[I made a mistake earlier, thinking the controller and splitter were connected. They're separate.]
If your motherboard doesn't have enough RGB headers, you have to use the RGB splitter, and the splitter can be directly connected to the motherboard. Then there's just the matter of syncing it with Mystic Light.

Ok thanks a lot for all the help!!! (And for your time answering so many questions! 😉