[SOLVED] 2vs4 ddr4 sticks on tomahawk max + r5 3600?

Habbasi

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I've got to decide between getting either 2 or 4 sticks of ddr4. I currently have 4x8gb Corsair vengeance Pro RGB 3600mhzCl18. The problem is two sticks are nanya a die and two are Samsung c die. I believe this is causing issues.
I haven't been able to run the ram at anywhere above 2133 without bsods and instability, haven't at all been able to use them with their advertised speeds.

Not sure if the above problem is due to it being 4 sticks on top of the different IC. I plan on returning that ram and replacing it. Here are my options:
Corsair vengeance RGB Pro 2x8gb 3600mhzc18 + two empty RGB ram modules.

Corsair vengeance RGB Pro 4x8gb 3200mhzc16 (not be 3600 as one set of 4 of those isn't worth the cost to me)

I have only picked Corsair as practically all my build is Corsair minus the GPU, CPU and mobo, yes yes I like my RGB for this build lol. My use case is mainly gaming but also regular use and desktop work etc.

I've looked at lots of other ram including 3600c16 that's cheaper but I want the build to be consistently Corsair for just ease of RGB control. If I was to get differently branded ram then I'd go for 4 sticks to fill the slots up.

Please advise on what to do regarding my options as in which will give me better performance. Yes I know I could get better performance but out of the two which is best?

P.s I was playing a game earlier which I think has a memory leak as it reserved 14gb while only using 6. Will 16gb cause issues in cases like this?
 

Darkbreeze

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If you are buying a new kit, for a Ryzen platform, you ABSOLUTELY want to use only two sticks if possible. Very few people can get four DIMMs to run at higher than 3200mhz, regardless of the CPU and board used. Even AMD themselves, and most of the board manufacturers, won't qualify four DIMM memory kits over 3200mhz for most Ryzen platforms. Stick to two DIMMs if you want to run high speed memory.

If you REALLY feel the need to "fill the slots up", they sell dummy RGB or non-RGB memory for this purpose. Just buy a two DIMM kit with the capacity you need and either do, or don't, fill the other two slots with dummy dimms.
 
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Darkbreeze

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If you are buying a new kit, for a Ryzen platform, you ABSOLUTELY want to use only two sticks if possible. Very few people can get four DIMMs to run at higher than 3200mhz, regardless of the CPU and board used. Even AMD themselves, and most of the board manufacturers, won't qualify four DIMM memory kits over 3200mhz for most Ryzen platforms. Stick to two DIMMs if you want to run high speed memory.

If you REALLY feel the need to "fill the slots up", they sell dummy RGB or non-RGB memory for this purpose. Just buy a two DIMM kit with the capacity you need and either do, or don't, fill the other two slots with dummy dimms.
 
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Karadjgne

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Ppl like Jonesboro even sell fake ram kits, stick their cover over your ram and use the included dummy sticks to have a full matched set. Gskill Royal has similar as does Gigabyte Aorus, with or without rgb.

But for Ryzen, absolutely 2 sticks is best.
 
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Habbasi

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If you are buying a new kit, for a Ryzen platform, you ABSOLUTELY want to use only two sticks if possible. Very few people can get four DIMMs to run at higher than 3200mhz, regardless of the CPU and board used. Even AMD themselves, and most of the board manufacturers, won't qualify four DIMM memory kits over 3200mhz for most Ryzen platforms. Stick to two DIMMs if you want to run high speed memory.

If you REALLY feel the need to "fill the slots up", they sell dummy RGB or non-RGB memory for this purpose. Just buy a two DIMM kit with the capacity you need and either do, or don't, fill the other two slots with dummy dimms.
Thank you, this is basically what I wanted to hear. Would rather hear that all 4 can function but this is good enough haha

The 4 sticks of 3200 I was looking at seen to be on the compatibility list of my mobo running all 4 dimms. Not sure now if it's worth going for that over dual channel 3600mhz with a dummy kit.

I think I'll definitely be getting the Corsair dummy kits if I opt for the dual channel. Thing is as I was gaming and even in normal use earlier, about 17gb and 14gb were committed. Is this normal/does this mean I should go for 32gb over 16gb?
Fresh install of Windows and basically all new parts in the build only carried old HDD forward whilst I slowly move stuff off it to my new SSD.

Also will the die make much of a difference? I've heard it's a gamble with Corsair. I've got Samsung c die and nanya a die atm. Not sure if worth returning both and trying to get better if that's even possible with the ram I'm getting.
Thanks for the help!
 

Habbasi

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Ppl like Jonesboro even sell fake ram kits, stick their cover over your ram and use the included dummy sticks to have a full matched set. Gskill Royal has similar as does Gigabyte Aorus, with or without rgb.

But for Ryzen, absolutely 2 sticks is best.
I'll definitely be getting some dummy kits from Corsair if I go for the dual as I mentioned in my other reply. Sad to see that only 2 is good enough though haha. Not sure if I need 32gb for my use case but 2x16gb 3600c18 RGB Pro in white just isn't on Amazon so can't go for that either way :/
Will probably stick with 16, hope the crap I saw on my pc earlier was irrelevant.
 

Habbasi

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Ryzen beyond 3200MHz can be an issue unless you are comfortable with (and the bios allows you to) delving into such stuff as fclock, uclock, mclock etc. when using 4 sticks.
That does seem to explain why the best I could get it to was 2933 lol. Spent two days playing around with the kits and had to remove the battery a few times as well ;(
Makes me wonder if 4 slots at 3200 are even possible even if they are listed on mobo website as compatible in 4 dimms at advertised speed.
 

Darkbreeze

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Being "compatible" doesn't mean that a 4 DIMM kit is going to run AT the advertised speed, any more than a 4000mhz+ kit for any given motherboard means that it will necessarily run AT that speed. It just means it will "work" in that board. Whether it works at a specific speed is a different story EXCEPT when the QVL specifically states that it has been TESTED at that speed, or says something like XMP validated. Then it should be good to go for that speed but in this case it's more of a WHOLE PLATFORM limitation, not specifically a "motherboard" independent issue.

To some degree, this is true for pretty much ALL platforms, as there are many Intel chipsets as well that will support memory kits of a given speed BUT when you add two more DIMMs or use a four DIMM kit to start with, it may or may not be able to work at the XMP profile speed. Plus, regardless that there are some tech sites out there recommending that people run four DIMM kits and saying there are advantages to it (Which they CAN be in some cases, at certain speeds, but not necessarily at ALL speeds or at HIGH speeds) there is a very fundamental fact regarding running four DIMMs and that is the incontrovertible fact that it doubles the stress on the memory controller, which happens to be IN the CPU, and therefore generally infers additional thermal and stability related penalties compared to a two DIMM kit. That is not to say that the use of four DIMMs can't be done, or shouldn't be done, depending on the speed and platform, at all, but I'd recommend sticking to two sticks whenever it's possible to achieve your desired memory capacity without having to use four DIMMs to do it.

And those benefits argued about that are supposedly gained by using four DIMMs, can actually more easily be gained by simply finding a two DIMM kit that has a dual rank design, which will technically offer basically the same benefit without the extra problems.
 

Habbasi

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Being "compatible" doesn't mean that a 4 DIMM kit is going to run AT the advertised speed, any more than a 4000mhz+ kit for any given motherboard means that it will necessarily run AT that speed. It just means it will "work" in that board. Whether it works at a specific speed is a different story EXCEPT when the QVL specifically states that it has been TESTED at that speed, or says something like XMP validated. Then it should be good to go for that speed but in this case it's more of a WHOLE PLATFORM limitation, not specifically a "motherboard" independent issue.

To some degree, this is true for pretty much ALL platforms, as there are many Intel chipsets as well that will support memory kits of a given speed BUT when you add two more DIMMs or use a four DIMM kit to start with, it may or may not be able to work at the XMP profile speed. Plus, regardless that there are some tech sites out there recommending that people run four DIMM kits and saying there are advantages to it (Which they CAN be in some cases, at certain speeds, but not necessarily at ALL speeds or at HIGH speeds) there is a very fundamental fact regarding running four DIMMs and that is the incontrovertible fact that it doubles the stress on the memory controller, which happens to be IN the CPU, and therefore generally infers additional thermal and stability related penalties compared to a two DIMM kit. That is not to say that the use of four DIMMs can't be done, or shouldn't be done, depending on the speed and platform, at all, but I'd recommend sticking to two sticks whenever it's possible to achieve your desired memory capacity without having to use four DIMMs to do it.

And those benefits argued about that are supposedly gained by using four DIMMs, can actually more easily be gained by simply finding a two DIMM kit that has a dual rank design, which will technically offer basically the same benefit without the extra problems.
Ah ok that clears a lot of things up, possibly also why my cpu has been heating up (?) randomly here and there. I think I will be going with the 2 slots in the end haha. I'll probably go for 3600mhzc18 then fill it with dummies.
I don't recall a-xmp working even when I tried it with two sticks, had to manually adjust it but I guess that's just a-xmp being shite.

I'm not sure what to do based on the version numbers on the individual ram sets though as Corsair has so many different ones. Not sure it even makes a noticeable difference if the IC manufacturer is different or if the die is bad etc. Will read up a bit more on that.

I do have one final question though regarding the kits I'm looking at. Not sure you'll know but who else can I ask lol. I can't tell what the difference between these two kits is:

CMW16GX4M2C3600C18W CMW16GX4M2D3600C18W

Other than the C Vs D, logically I assume the C is better but how? The first kit is about £40+ more expensive than the other one. Any information would be wonderful.

Thank you again!
 

Darkbreeze

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That is probably due to getting sticks that have not been validated by the memory manufacturer for a given motherboard model. This is one reason I like to stick to making recommendations using Corsair or G.Skill products for Ryzen platforms, because they clearly offer validation on what is compatible and what isn't if you use the Corsair memory finder or G.Skill memory configurator utilities on their websites.

If you get a kit validated by the manufacturer, it WILL run at the XMP profile. If you get one validated by the motherboard QVL list, it might, and it might not. Some QVL lists specify that they have tested the kit at the XMP settings but most times they do not.

Those two kits have different timings. The CMW16GX4M2C3600C18W kit has lower (Better) timings but it's possible neither of them are compatible with your motherboard because Ryzen generally prefers even numbered timings and those are both CL19 CAS latency. I'd verify them with the Corsair memory finder first. In fact, based on Corsair's memory finder, this is the only 32GB two DIMM 3600mhz kit that is compatible with the Tomahawk Max.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK32GX4M2K3600C16
 

Habbasi

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That is probably due to getting sticks that have not been validated by the memory manufacturer for a given motherboard model. This is one reason I like to stick to making recommendations using Corsair or G.Skill products for Ryzen platforms, because they clearly offer validation on what is compatible and what isn't if you use the Corsair memory finder or G.Skill memory configurator utilities on their websites.

If you get a kit validated by the manufacturer, it WILL run at the XMP profile. If you get one validated by the motherboard QVL list, it might, and it might not. Some QVL lists specify that they have tested the kit at the XMP settings but most times they do not.

Those two kits have different timings. The CMW16GX4M2C3600C18W kit has lower (Better) timings but it's possible neither of them are compatible with your motherboard because Ryzen generally prefers even numbered timings and those are both CL19 CAS latency. I'd verify them with the Corsair memory finder first. In fact, based on Corsair's memory finder, this is the only 32GB two DIMM 3600mhz kit that is compatible with the Tomahawk Max.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Memory/VENGEANCE-LPX/p/CMK32GX4M2K3600C16
I've been looking towards Corsair mainly as it'll work with the rest of it and still match. I did look at what you linked and have been looking at the lpx ones for a while now but I do want it to be RGB (ahah sue me). Thing is I'm considering if its worth going for 32gb of ram. Not sure I'll really need it. I've been using the memory finder but it only has this one I've been looking at and towards buying:

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Vengeance-PRO-RGB-White/p/CMW16GX4M2C3600C18W

I'm not sure how it has cl19 as it's listed as cl18 hmm
But this one is in the mobo list as supported in two dimm slots @3600. Says it's xmp certified (if that's what you meant on the Corsair website) on the page and as it's two sticks it should work fine.

The thing is Corsair has so many different versions of their ram it's ridiculous. In the compatibility list it states the C3 version that I linked above is v4.31 which is Samsung B-die whereas the ones I ordered which were the D3, I got v8.31 and v4.32.
I'm worried if I order the C3 one for £40 more it'll still not be v4.31 with the better die. Not sure if it's even worth the price difference but I'm assuming that's why it'll run better and probably at xmp right? The D3 one isn't on the memory finder or mobo list.

Tough choice. But I can return my current two sets as I ordered the dummy set and got it today. I just need to decide on the right real set. As it's amazon and they have easy returns I'm tempted to order the £134 one and see if it's v4.31 as compared to the v4.32 I've got. I think I'll definitely return the v8.31. Any advice in this regard on which is better?

Yet again thank you for taking the time!
 

Darkbreeze

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What, specifically, do you use this system for that might require 32GB? If you're just gaming, then you are not likely to see much, if any, benefit from 32GB over having just 16GB. There are one or two games that technically, in some circumstances, might use slightly more than 16GB, but unless you are playing those games and fit all the criteria to see a benefit from the extra RAM, or are doing something else like running VMs or professional applications that might need it, then it's a waste of money and it's seriously narrowing your options.
 

Habbasi

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What, specifically, do you use this system for that might require 32GB? If you're just gaming, then you are not likely to see much, if any, benefit from 32GB over having just 16GB. There are one or two games that technically, in some circumstances, might use slightly more than 16GB, but unless you are playing those games and fit all the criteria to see a benefit from the extra RAM, or are doing something else like running VMs or professional applications that might need it, then it's a waste of money and it's seriously narrowing your options.
Honestly it's mainly for gaming but I do comp sci so just basic work related to that. I've never noticed a need for 32 on my old build which had ddr3 16.
I was only curious as there was a lot of ram being committed when I had all 4 sticks in. Up to 20gb at one point, although I don't think that matters that much does it?

Anyway I've popped the dummy set in with the v4.32 set and it runs on xmp fine. I'm clocked at 3600 18-22-22-42-84. I'm assuming this will run better than the 4 sticks I had in earlier. I did some minor benchmarks when I was playing about with the ram a few days ago, 2 was definitely better.

Would there be a noticeable difference in this ram and the v4.31 that runs at 18-19-19-39? Is it worth the price difference of about £36? I'm going to return the v8.31 (nanya) set I've got anyway as I think this one's better. But not sure if I should return both and order the better clocked one.
 

Darkbreeze

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Probably not worth returning and paying more for another CL18 set of sticks. One option to look at however is the fact that you can get a set of 3200mhz CL14 sticks, and those will be marginally FASTER than a set of of 3600mhz CL16 sticks, which themselves are faster than your 3600 CL18 sticks. If you were to get a CL14 kit at 3200mhz, then that might be worth spending a bit more money on considering you have to return some memory anyhow and it might give you a few more options on model choices as well. But honestly, you might just be as well to stay with what you have that's working. It's a minor difference in performance anyhow really.
 
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Habbasi

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Probably not worth returning and paying more for another CL18 set of sticks. One option to look at however is the fact that you can get a set of 3200mhz CL14 sticks, and those will be marginally FASTER than a set of of 3600mhz CL16 sticks, which themselves are faster than your 3600 CL18 sticks. If you were to get a CL14 kit at 3200mhz, then that might be worth spending a bit more money on considering you have to return some memory anyhow and it might give you a few more options on model choices as well. But honestly, you might just be as well to stay with what you have that's working. It's a minor difference in performance anyhow really.
Ah alright I guess I'll give returning this set a miss then. I would love to pick up a set of 3200c14 but I don't think the Corsair ram I'm buying even has a version of that.
My next build hopefully a few years from now will be far more performance oriented just like my last ahaha.

Thanks again
 

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