9600xt vs 9600 pro ultimate

[Koopa]

Would having 256 Mb of RAM undermine the 9600xt against the 9600 pro ultimate? Which is the better card (both are sapphire)?

It's for a bet.

Athlon XP 1700+
512 Mb PC2100 DDR
Sapphire Radeon 9600 XT
And a partridge in a pear tree.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by koopa on 01/29/04 09:15 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

You need to be more specific.

256mb of ram on a card doesn't change much (in a negative way) IF the speed and timing is the same. 256mb on a system would be a factor for some types of applications but not favour one or the other.

But at stock speeds the R9600XT would beat the R9600UE every time because of the core speed differences, not the memory differences. Yes the R9600XTs initially came out with much slower memory than the older R9600pros, but the Ultimate Edition was no guarantee of fast memory. The Sapphires in particular had a missmash of memory types (7 different speed/mfr combos I've seen so far).

Which is a better card depends on the precise specifications of the cards, but which one will perform better at stock speed out of the box, the XT, every time because it's 500/300 vs 400/300.

Even the Best Sapphire R9600Pro Fireblade edition, only guarantees an overclock to 330mhz, but out of the box it's still 400/300.

However there is no way of telling which would overclock the best without true specs. But based on the multitude of reviews I've read, the Ultimate edition usually comes with 3ns or worse memory, so there would likely only be a tiny bit more overhead on the memory, and that would usually be versus the INITIAL R9600XTs which still enjoy far greater core overhead. So you may get to the point where a 550/315 card would lose to a 450/320 card, but that in and of itself would be rare.

The Simple answer is that the R9600XT would beat the R9600P-UE 99.44% of the time under stock configuration, whether it's 128mb or 256mb.


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[tombance]

Well, im the one hes betting against. he has a 9600XT 256MB, but is has TSOP memory, whilst the Car he is comparing to has BGA. From this I simply assumed that in order to keep costs down sapphire used cheaper TSOP RAM clocked at a lower speed than default, and that the ultimate edition would be using RAM clocked at the manufacturers spec. The question is whether the difference in RAM clockspeed is enough to make the 9600 pro any faster.

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[TheGreatGrapeApe]

If it has TSOP memory, then it is not a TRUE XT.

Lemme guess it's from Powercolor or Gigapuke right?

It's not the 256mb that makes the difference but the type/speed of that memory.

And yes the SPEED is the MOST important thing. The only time the 256mb would be an advanatage is crippled by it's lower throughput. You may see a 1 in 100 win for the larger slower memory and even then that's a guess. High resolution w/ high AA/AF would call for larger memory but it's so slow that that benifit would likely be negated by its slowness.

Now the questions is whether the slow memory is an equalizer for the higher core speed. For lower res. and older games likely the higher core clock would make the biggest difference, but it's not about the SIZE of the memory so much as it's speed. So you are comparing faster core/slower memory to slower core/faster memory, and in that case you will likely find the results vary from application to application and even then from setting to setting.


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[tombance]

Surprisingly its from Sapphire, and I've seen two of their 256MB cards. both of which have TSOP RAM. Next time I get a chance (possibly this friday) I'll take a look at the RAM, see whats it rated for. Whats the XT mem speed again? 400Mhz?

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[kostasthegreek]

The radeon 9600xt memory clock is 600MHz(300 DDR).

 

[kostasthegreek]

The radeon 9600xt memory clock is 600MHz(300MHz DDR).

 

[tombance]

Ok thx, I'll just see whther its 3.3ns or better then. Or I suppose I could install RADclocker and check the frequencies.

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[tombance]

Looks like it's Samsung 3.3ns, so it is at spec, and i suppose the TSOP is just a bit cheaper than BGA.

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[Zap]

Does RADclocker show the timings like 2.2ns or 3.3ns? Just wondering coz i need a program which shows the memory timings for a 9600xt to see whether its a true 9600xt. Any ideas?

Another thing is that how can you tell that the 9600xt is a 9600xt and not a 9600pro? I mean yea there are stickers but is there anything else to idenify it?

Thanks

 

[tombance]

Can you not simply look on the RAM chips? There should be a number at the end of the chip, that denotes its ns rating. Fore example the card I was looking at had '-GC33' which means 3.3ns RAM.

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[TheGreatGrapeApe]

To see the speed of the chips you can only look at the chip itself (like tombance said), to tell whether it's an R9600XT based on the new LOW-K core or an OVERCLOCKED R9600Pro there is no way other than taking off the HSF and checking the part number. You could try overclocking it, but some of the R9600Pro cores go well beyond 550mhz, so it's hard to be sure that way alone.


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[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Just thought I'd post this picture of the recently release SUMA R9600XT 256mb which indeed has 3.3ns TSOP memory running at 300(600)mhz. Making it a 'true' XT, but a crap-a$$ed overclocker to be sure. Relaxed timings too maybe?

<A HREF="http://www.ixbt.com/short/2k4-02/suma9600xt_b.jpg" target="_new">http://www.ixbt.com/short/2k4-02/suma9600xt_b.jpg</A>

So this now makes it a little harder to tell what kind of XT people are getting. May bring down prices, but not a fan of putting even crappier memory on these cards.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK