A short story of water cooling Update with bench marks

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phreejak,

Also...if I do TEC cooling for the CPU I don't know if the Freezone all-in-one system would work on my Gigabyte Aurora case with its (2) 120mm fans in the back. I probably would want external TEC/radiators if that helps your thinking about what I should use as my Koolance replacement....

--Scott

 
well that pump is a contrast of sorts - incredible head level but not so great flowrate. At 2.1 gpm that comes to 126gph. Compare that with the MCP655 which has, basically the same head level but a flowrate of 317gph. Once the coolant has gone through all the bends and turns of the SLI setup, your flow has really been cut down.

Thinking minimal investment here (as minimal as possible), you could get away with using your vid-282s. However, I would definitely invest in a more powerful pump (MCP655 or MCP355). Your dealing with alot of heat in a 226watt TEC and if you don't get rid of it as fast as possible it will hurt the peltier waterblocks efficiency.

You have some interesting possiblities open to you here.....

Basically, you need seperate radiators for the video and for the CPU. If you are going to run a single loop then you definitely need the radiators to seperate the two components:

like:

reservoir - pump - cpu - rad - gpu - rad - back to reservoir

in that configuration, neither section will be made to suffer from the heat of the other as the rads will deal with that.

I don't know how realistic this possiblity would be but since you already have the exos material, you could also consider running two loops using the expos stricly for the vids and buying seperate equiptment for a dedicated loop for the TEC.

My sig says what I use now but I've had some wacked out configurations way different from what I have presently. I even used to use two MCP655s in seperate loops for each TEC waterblock (two dual 120mm rads external) and only joined the loops at the reservoir.

Don't worry about the questions - that's what the forums are here for.
 
phreejak,

Thanks for the rapid reply....at this point I am willing to ditch the EXOS stuff and start over (chalk it up to training...) with my driving goal to be both low CPU and GPU temps...BUT also anything I can do to reduce ambient room temp / hot air distribution so I can have a comfortable work environment.

I have read lots of your posts and I totally get the "rads between blocks" benefits. But I am having a hard time visualizing how you actually mount the rads inside or outside your case.

-Any pics of your config?
-What about pump setup...where do you mount it?
-Sounds like TEC is powerful yet complex....what would you guess would be the QX6700 temp expectation of a non-TEC setup using the 1/2" tubing, pump, rads, and block suggestions you have provided previously?
-Do you have in your config a external LCD temp display or just rely on sw or bios-based temp reads?
-One thing I do like about the Koolance stuff is the barbed nozzles with the compression screws. I am guessing you don't see those as necessary....do you really use the plain metal clamps on your hose connections?
-Last question....if I replace the vid-282s...do I only need a GPU block or the full Swiftech Stealth block?

Thanks again....I am ready to shop and buy ASAP to solve this prob.....thanks!

--Scott


 
In my place, I have central heat & air. I keep it at around 70ish - 72 and I don't notice the heat from my rig. When dealing with TECs it's a tradeoff - heat and energy consumption for subambient temps on the component.

I have a CM Stacker. I have two dual 120mm rads mounted externally by radboxes on top and in the back. I did this because, well, I didn't have any room in my case (even as big as the Stacker is). I'll get some pics of my setup soon.

I have an MCP655 mounted on the floor of my case at the front and a Swiftech MCRES-MICRO reservoir mounted just above it.

Oddly enough, it's been about 4 years since I used my last "non-TEC" cpu block so I really couldn't guess about a non-tec setup.

I use an external uGuru LED panel for my temps right now for my cpu (Abit board). I have an external LED for my GPU TEC as well.

Well, I'll tell you - I am about to pull my GPU TEC from the loop and just go to straight waterblock for my videocard. TEC cooling my GPU is nice and I get hella temps but I don't o'clock my GPU so I have no real need for it. I am going to be using the Stealth block over the other GPU blocks for a few reasons:

1) It's the only GPU block (not counting the fullbody blocks) that covers the entire GPU core.
2) The Stealths construction negates the need to buy ramsinks. The water channel does not go over the memory but the blocks fin design is meant to aid in the heat dissipation.
3) The Stealth uses the Apogee design which is most excellent.

You see, if you just bought the GPU block like, say, the MCW60 or the Maze4 or even the Fuzion you would still need to deal with cooling the memory and mosfets - all of which the Stealth nicely deals with.
 
phreejak,

My comment on the home office ambient temp was with a/c. It's a second floor office in Sacramento (hot). Without the water cooled PC running...I can get the room temp to 74deg. All other things being equal...after a few hours of running the QX6700/dual 8800GTX system with the EXOS2 the room gets to about 81-82deg. Doesn't look like relocating the radiator away from the PC is helping. Willing to try other stuff....

OK...you have been majorly helpful with helping me get off the Koolance stuff. I am going to try a non-TEC, Swiftech-centric WC setup and I think I have my shopping list complete (MCP655, 2 Stealths, 1 GTX CPU block, etc.)....Last couple of questions:

1) Do you only need (1) rad box even when using the MCR-220 dual radiator if installing externally? (note...if I do what you did which is an MCR-220 between the blocks...is a single rad block for each dual rad)
2) Do you know of any generic LED panels that can show CPU temp, ala what you have on your ABit board or what I get from the EXOS2 unit? I have the Gigabyte GA-N680SLI-DQ6 mobo.
3) related....how do you deal with auto-shutdown if you have a pump failure, etc.?
4) how do control fan speed in this type of configuration?

Once again...thanks for the big time assist,

--Scott

 
1) Yes, the way that a radbox attaches itself to a case, it can more than handle a dual 120mm rad, whether you attach it at the top of the rad or the bottom.

2) For this you would have to do some research for your board because my cpu temp thingy is specific for my brand of board. I can show temps for my gpu because I've actually got a temp probe drilled into the block.

3)I've used Abit boards almost exclusively for the past 4 years. In them, I've set my temp alarm to shut the computer down when the cpu temp got to a certain point. I've been using the very same MCP655 for, almost, my entire liquid/thermoelectric cooling career and I've never experienced pump failure nor temperature shurdown. In any event, though, the CPU should just shut itself off if it was overheating - they are alot tougher than people give them credit for.

4) I don't. All my fans are 20dba or less and I just let them run.

 
I have a very similar setup and need to grind down the standings of my VID-282 blocks. What tools would be best for this procedure (I'm a noob when it comes to things like this). Providing links to stuff at lowe's or home depot's site would be nice.
 
Ferr
A Dremel tool at Menards or Sears any place that sells hard.

spikerjack
Heat has to go some where and if your AC can't keep up the temps will be higher, changing everything will probably not solve your proplem. If you had your room at 70-72 degrees you wouldn't even be here asking a question.
 
If the dude is happy with his system, he's happy with his system. If a system is satisfactory, then it cannot be crap.

It's only crap if it has a serious flaw - i.e. it doesn't work.

Ignore the advertising. Advertising makes a lot of good products crap, because then the products often don't perform to expectation, and thus are crap. [/ramble]
 


While I agree that I gotta get rid of the WC heat in some form or fashion....I am willing to invest in a Swiftech-based WC setup as an alternative to my Koolance rig to see if a faster flow and bigger tubing can help keep the temps down...and provide me a bit more flexibility on where to put the fans and radiator(s). I will at least be able to compare things apples-to-apples to see if it makes a difference.

Full Swiftech ensemble arrives later this week. We'll see how this install compares to the Koolance struggles. One thing that I will miss is the LCD temp display on the Koolance EXOS2. Be interesting to see if it matters.

--Scott


 
BadDad, how much thermal paste did you apply and how did you apply it (coat it or let the block spread?)

I was able to grind down the standings on my blocks, but I'm afraid that the block and GPU may still not be flush (the standings do not even touch the card anymore). Perhaps I am not adding enough paste, or maybe I need to inspect the standings' height a bit closer.

When applying a pea-sized amount to let the block spread, it does not spread across the entire GPU, and it does seem somewhat thick enough that if it were flush it would have spread much more. When spreading a thin coat across the GPU it seems to only transfer paste from the GPU corners to the block, it does not transfer from the center.
 
The kit from Swiftech will perform better than the one from Koolance - and not just because of the ID of the tubing and parts. There is a thread in the coolers & heatsinks showing a comparison of most major highend cpu blocks including the Koolance 330 and the two best were the Fuzion and the GTX blocks.

While there is nothing wrong with kits like the Koolance brand - most enthusiasts subscribe to the DIY frame of mind. Kits like Koolance, Big Water, Cooler Master, Gigabyte, Alphacool and Asetek serve their purpose and do what people need them to do. Indeed my very first foray into water cooling was the Cooler Master R-80 and for the time I used it I loved it.

However, I see that the updated Koolance Exos-2 LX from the Koolance site does not come with any water blocks and is, itself, only a dual 120mm rad setup. Yet, the MSRP is $375.

I will acknowledge that the CPU block is pretty good. However, the full body GPU block is not condusive to maintaning a good flowrate - too many bends and turns. I'd never advocate fullbody water blocks. Your better off with something for JUST the GPU core and using ramsinks for the memory and voltage regulator/mosfets.

Spikerjack - just to show you how nice those Stealths are - In using a fullbody GPU waterblock from DangerDen for my 8800GTX, I was getting up to 56 degrees celsius at load. With the Stealth, I float between 43 - 46 Degrees celsius on load.

ferr - I'd use a mill of some sort (like a mini mill) to ground contact points on a water block before I'd even think about a dremel. This is because, with a mill, you will have equal measurements across the board and a steady fixture to hold the block to make certain that all grinding will be equal everywhere.
 
Dremel worked just fine, but thanks.

GPU1: 53C
GPU2: 49C

Excellent for 8800Ultras OC'd I'd say. Thanks for your post, BadDad!
 
Hello,

I just finished building a rig somewhat similar to BadDads. But I used the Thermaltake Kandalf LCS,silver aluminium case. With the Liquid Cooling System that came with the case my E6600 runs at 15C idle and 23C under load with a mild 7% overclock, which was better than i expected. My EVGA 8800GTS KO ACS3 edition however runs at 54C idle and 63C to 68C under load with stock cooling. This would probably be fine with just one card but i had planned on using two of these cards in SLI. It seems to me my temps would then be much higher. I noticed that you had bought a side panel for the Kandalf with an installed 120mm fan. Where did you get that? If i got one I might be able to avoid going to liquid cooling for the GPU when i buy the other card. Great setup you got there, mine turned out real nice to.

Intel E6600
MSI P6N Diamond
EVGA 8800 GTS KO
2x2GB Corsair XM2 with Dominator Fan- 4GB total
2X 320GB Seagate Barracudas in Raid 0
Thermaltake Kandalf LCS Case
Corsair 650W modular power supply
Windows XP Pro (until Vista gets it act together) :ouch:
 
Thanks for the link BadDad. I will pick one up. It will be much cheaper than going with liquid cooled GPU's if it works well enough...
 
LOL water cooling, im laughing at you....Koolance ? ROFL. I have an HR-03 Cooler on my 8800GTX and I get better IDLE/LOAD Temps than you.....on aftermarket AIR cooling! Not to mention it costed about 500$ less....
 
Annisman,

Go smoke another bowl, and keep yourself happy. Cause unlike your cooler a good water cooling rig directly removes the heat out of the case, and in doing so helps other components stay cool too. Like your boards mosfets and northbridge. That is cause the heat is removed from the case by the coolant mixture and then exhausted at the radiator. Plus with water you can OC even higher than with air. This is because water can remove heat better than air can. So even if you say that BadDad's temps are worse than yours think out how much he has OC'd his cards before you try to brag.

-ouch1

BTW I am willing to bet that BadDad's rig is much quieter than yours since you need to move alot alot more air to cool your system than he does.
 
Damn dude that is badass, is that fan in the back intaking air? i know next to nothing about watercooling, but i'm pretty sure you should have that rear fan exhausting.
 
Yes the rear fan is an exhaust, in fact the fan in the middle rear is 120mm fan and the one at the top rear is 90mm fan pulling air across three drive. The top also has a 90mm fan pulling air up and out as well as 120mm fan in the front pushing air in across the motherboard and finally a 250mm fan on the side pushing air in.
 
Wow, am i glad i stumbled onto this post. to the op thank you for this useful bit of info. as i just received my evga 8800 gtx today and have a koolance waterblock on its way due tomorrow. I will be shaving it down before i install it, im not one for taking risks where my 600 dollar gfx card is concerned. as im sure this affects all evga cards. That is a very nice setup btw. Must have cost a pretty penny. thanks again
 
Glad this helped you. I can say that the water cooling was a big help during the summer since I only have a window air-conditioner for the whole house. The room temps would be around 26C with it running and the fans on high, the system temps were around 34C when playing a game, but now that it's cool the fans are turned way down.
 
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