Build Advice Advice on new build, starting with motherboard manufacturer, for touchscreens, floppy disks, which Windows version ?

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Richard1234

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Hi,

I have built a few PCs over the years, I built this one around 2010, and because its becoming a bit obsolete, time to build a new one with a complete overhaul, in the past I would recycle components, but this time I think I need to upgrade most things. I will only recycle the loudspeakers, mouse and keyboard.

the motherboard is the startpoint for building a PC, and this one's is by Gigabyte and is ATX.

I would firstly like advice as to which motherboard manufacturer, eg ones with more or better early startup facilities, eg ability to boot from USB drives. I also want ancient floppy disk support, because I have dabbled with writing software on floppy disks which boot directly without operating system. I dont know if all ATX's support the ancient floppy drives. Also a manufacturer whose motherboards are reliable.

this Gigabyte one has been good but after 13 years of use, the USB seems to sometimes malfunction for the wireless USB dongle, I think the USB support on the motherboard is somehow worn out. And eg hard drives attached to the USB hub attached to the machine will vanish.

I would also like legacy support for PS/2 mouse and keyboard, ie PS/2 sockets at the back for mouse and keyboard. Basically I want as much legacy hardware support as possible, as I have programmed PS2 mouse and keyboard directly for my floppy booting software. I know USB can emulate legacy, but I would like the legacy hardware directly.

Some months ago I bought a laptop with touchscreen and windows 11. I dont know if one can buy touchscreen monitors for PCs? Also can windows 10 support such, or does it have to be windows 11. As I would need to buy Windows also. I have some spare licensed copies of Windows 10 not yet installed, bought so they can be used when windows 10 is no longer supported.

Then advice on tower cases for the system, I would like a transparent one where I can see everything inside the machine without having to open up. But I would like one also which uses old school slotting, my existing one has nonstandard plastic things, which I find very confusing, and some have broken. I would like as many bays as possible, eg I have lots of SATA drives.

any advice on specific such tower cases, and specific UK vendors who sell these, I dont know if I am allowed to ask such advice on this forum. I found PC World no use for tower cases, and had problems finding anything any good on ebay.

with my existing machine, I found the expansion slots a bit cramped, where the graphics card is too near the slot I use for the USB3 adapter, I dont know if this is a limit of the ATX specification, or if it is a manufacturer design limitation. it would be nice if there were more space between the sockets.

This existing system, has various bare wire USB sockets on the motherboard, which I found a bit confusing to connect up, I would prefer proper USB sockets on the motherboard accessible at the back. But maybe all have this problem?

I think I would like DV-I and hdmi support, with my existing machine, its hdmi doesnt do audio, I dont know if newer machines have integrated audio into the hdmi, and what to look for to get hdmi with audio. that way I could record a session on the machine for say Youtube. I dont know if this is a graphics card question rather than a motherboard question, and if a graphics card question, advice on which graphics cards.


it is lots of questions, and the central question is which motherboard manufacturer, and the constraints of both ancient hardware eg floppies and ps/2 but also modern hardware eg touchscreens, which might constrain which version of windows or the graphics card etc.

with my touchscreen laptop, I found the early startup controls a bit limited, and it doesnt allow enough time for the external USB bluray drive to get ready to boot say Linux mint, I had to configure the hubs a certain way before I could get that to boot, which is a limitation of the early startup.

anyway, many thanks for any advice
Richard
 

Richard1234

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the word DIMM is problematic because in spoken english it sounds the same as "dim", which already has a meaning as an adjective, the original meaning is "low level of light", eg "in the dim light of the evening" or "this light is a bit dim". Now because the word "bright" has a secondary meaning of "intelligent", "dim" meaning "not bright" has acquired the secondary meaning of "not intelligent" or "stupid",

eg "are you a bit dim?" and "the salesman at the shop was very dim"

whereas the word "SIMM" when spoken as "sim" only has the existing meaning of "simulation", but this is a more niche meaning, mainly for computer simulations, eg the sim city program.
and the usage of SIMM for mobile phone simms is very established, eg used all the time in tv dramas and films,

most people dont scrutinise the structure of such things! for them it is some unintelligible object, with a price, a spec eg 1Gig, and that you insert it in a machine! so the word simm will do for them.

note also that when native language speakers of english use the language, they dont get it from Google, but they learn words from hearing them used in context, and eg I did a 1 year conversion degree to computing in the early 1990s in England, and from the lectures and tutorials I learnt the computing english of that era. Google didnt even exist then!

with native language speakers, people often have discussions about whether a particular usage really is right, and with say academics they will revise the official usages. eg your comment about dimm vs simm is this kind of thing.

I agree that DIMM may be the technically right word, but if I said that to most people, they would have no idea what I was talking about. And I wouldnt know whether a particular memory card was a simm or a dimm, without a lot of study of the internet, functionally a simm and a dimm are the same, both are merely memory sticks. The difference in configuration is just an implementation detail. Even if its a dimm it might not work! Most people dont even know what memory is, they just buy a PC as is, and never change the memory. They dont know what hard disks are and dont know what files are, for them they save a project.

if you use the wrong word, you wont make any mistakes, because you might ask "do you sell any simms for my HP XYZ computer?", where they might say "I think you mean dimms, yes we do, try this",

by the time I next upgrade a computer it might be the year 2030, and the word dimm itself will be obsolete! memory simms and dimms are not frequently used words for most people! maybe at tomshardware, but not out there in the real world!

anyway, my argument is that memory sim is better spoken english than memory dim, but that perhaps memory card and even just "memory" are even better, as they will work in all eras up to now, and "memory" gets to the heart of the matter, "memory expansion" also is good.

at uni in maths, we had to call things whatever the lecturer called them, and often the lecturer would flout accepted usage. generally a textbook or course has to define its terms at the start, eg some books might say: in this book "number" means an integer. Another book might say: in this book "number" means any real number. And a further book might say: in this book, "number" means any complex number.

the fact you need to have to read up technical stuff to distinguish a dimm from a simm, means it is bad terminology for general usage. its a case where an adjective would be better, eg a dimm memory card and a simm memory card, where what you really want is a memory card compatible with your mobo and cpu.

in america, people generate new terminology all the time, often carelessly, where the language will eventually deteriorate from sloppy expansion of the language. with a lot of reinvention of words, eg "woke" when we already had "political correctness" and "cancel" when we already had "ban" and "blacklist" and "shun". the word "cancel" is inaccurate, as the person is still there! you arent cancelling the person, just cancelling their appearance at a venue. "shunning" is probably the best word, eg the american media are shunning Donald Trump.

I actually need subtitles now to understand american films, as american english is diverging from british english too much. In Britain the expansion of the language is much more controlled and gradual and reluctant.

when I said "simm" that basically comes under "abuse of english", its quite ok to abuse the language! in Britain people regularly abuse the language. language abuse is where you use the wrong word, but where people understand what you mean and the abuse is accepted.

eg people might say "he got sacked" when they meant "he was made redundant", being sacked is where you are removed from a job, usually for misbehaviour, but to be made redundant is where the job itself was removed and you were not at fault.

this is a common abuse of english. another common abuse is to confuse cds blurays and dvds with each other. eg "the installation cd for ????" where in fact its a dvd.

or people will say "britain" when they mean "the united kingdom" or say "english" when what they mean is "american english". "english" is the language spoken in England, "american english" isnt english but is closely related.

or people will say "america" when in fact they mean "the US", america is south america and north america and includes Brazil and Canada. brazilians and mexicans are all americans. when people say "american" to mean a US citizen, that is an abuse of language.

canadian english technically is also american english. it is similar to US english but not quite the same.

Also, you call RAM sticks as SIMM, which in itself isn't wrong, IF you refer to the RAM sticks in older hardware, in use from 1980 to early 2000.
Current, modern RAM sticks are called DIMM, which started usage from late 1990. DDR and it's revisions are all DIMMs.
Wiki SIMM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMM
Wiki DIMM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIMM
 
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Aeacus

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I want some words which wont need to be changed in the future. its annoying when each system uses different words for the same thing, eg Windows' "command prompt", which is the Amiga's CLI, I prefer to use the word "shell". I dont like the Windows terminology as it is 2 words, when 1 is adequate.
I refer to it as "terminal". Can't remember exactly from where i got that word. Perhaps from GNU/Linux distro.

also in forums, a discussion starting from a particular message is a thread, and you can have subthreads also
To me, the conversation sequence within forums is a "topic" and not a "thread". Unless it is clearly marked as a "discussion".

Topic, as such, is something where OP (Original Poster) presents specific question/request and others help OP with replies. Due to that, there are "on topic" and "off topic" replies. On topic replies respond to the established subject in 1st (initial) post. While off topic replies deviate from the original subject.

Thread is more like lesser/inferior form of a topic, which is more like a discussion, without any clear goal/path to restrain the discussion to initial subject. In a thread, the subject often changes as well, as discussion flows. Starting from A, moves to B, changes to C and so forth. A fluid conversation to say so.

and I am trying to resist the current by suggesting virtual CPU. I dont just look on Google how a word is used! the english language continually changes, eg it has changed significantly since say 1900. if you read stuff written in the early 1900s, or early films, the way they talk is different from now.
I don't force anyone to change their wording, unless it is completely off (e.g hardware specific terminology). As long as both parties understand the underlying context, it matters little which words to use, to get the point across.

but can I use a loudspeaker or headphones or microphone with that socket?

or does it have to be a special dual purpose socket like in the photo?
Any 3.5mm jack speaker/headphone/headset/mic will work in there and you don't have to use solely headset (headphones with mic) in it, despite it was created for headset.

It's like the combo PS/2 port, that can use KB and mice at the same time (when using Y-splitter), but it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use both at the same time for it to work. Using individual hardware works also.

its like with many cars, you have to pay extra if you dont want the car to be silver. but then most people go for silver as cheaper, and the cars look less impressive. if they just allowed any colour for the same price, their cars would stand out more.
When it comes to cars and body color, most default color options are dull, either silver or dark grey. Some manufacturers offer other colors for a fee (e.g dark green or dark red) but most people don't want to pay extra for body color.

Then there are car brands that are very strict with their car body color. Ferrari is the worst in that regard. For Ferrari, brand colors are red, black, yellow and there have been some white ones. But have you ever seen a pink Ferrari? Heck, even if you custom vinyl wrap your Ferrari, you will get sued.
5 cases where Ferrari has sued their car owners: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/5-times-ferrari-sued-its-own-fans/

E.g even i have custom vinyl wrapped my car. Bought it used (so, no body color option when buying brand new) and it came with dark grey body color that looks a lot more black than actual gray. A very dull looking color. So, i payed good money for the color i wanted. Now, i have a Subaru and while blue is also Subaru brand color, the blue color i picked, is more vibrant and shiny than the brand blue of Subaru. The color i picked is: "1080-G337 Gloss Blue Fire" (Google it to see how it looks). This makes my car distinct and i like it that way. Very easy to find in a parking lot. :cheese: Also, beautiful to look at it as well.

So, my overall take on car body color is: when buying brand new, pick the cheapest default color, afterwards, custom vinyl wrap your car to any color you like. You can even create unique, individual patterns if you so desire. Vinyl wrapping is far cheaper than actually repainting the car. And if you don't like the vinyl wrap anymore, you can easily remove it as well. While when you painted the car, you have to repaint it again (taking far more time and money than removing vinyl wrap). Also, vinyl wrap protects the car body somewhat, since it adds another protective layer on top of the car body.

we must talk about how things should be, and not just politely stay in the shadow of how things are!
There are things regarding PC hardware that i advocate for. For example: i always suggest people to buy PC as parts and assemble the PC by themselves. Since for one, you get more performance for your money, compared when you buy prebuilt; and for two, you can customize your desktop PC as you see fit, making the PC individual according to your own taste and needs. Compared to prebuilt that has some dull theme that you're stuck with it.

Especially worse are Dell prebuilt PCs, that often have proprietary MoBo/PSU/PC case. There are countless of topics here in TH (Tom's Hardware) where people have bought cheap Dell prebuilt desktop PCs and are looking into ways of upgrading the hardware, where end result is, that due to proprietary hardware in them, one can not upgrade the desktop PC. It's like having a laptop.
E.g while you can slot in beefier GPU, but better GPU usually requires more power, whereby one also needs to upgrade PSU to higher wattage capacity unit. But since Dell prebuilts often have proprietary power connectors, one just can't put in standard ATX PSU. And Dell proprietary PSUs are usually low wattage units, 230W to ~500W tops. While most modern GPUs require at least 650W PSU.

So, ideally, it would be best when manufacturers would listen industry experts of what or which or how the hardware should be, rather than deciding on their own and throwing it to the masses. But the thing is, masses are content with the hardware put out and few voices of the experts aren't enough to change manufacturer's mind.

Sometimes, legislators, who are in the position of power to make changes, do make changes for the masses, in favor of the masses and ease of use, rather than letting manufacturers run rampant and as they see fit.
Best example would be EU (European Union) whereby there is a mandate that every smart phone must have same, universal charging port (USB type-C). Before that mandate, every smart phone (or mobile phone) had their own, proprietary charging port. Whereby when you change phone brand, you had to buy new charging cable for your phone, making old charging cable prime candidate of e-waste.
So, in EU it's simple: either follow the mandate and put USB type-C port as charging port on your phone OR don't sell the device in EU market.
Apple has been the one who fights hard against that mandate, by claiming that their proprietary charging port is better than USB type-C. But as time moves on, EU legislators won't budge and Apple has to make the decision. E.g i don't mind Apple going away from EU market. Oh, that EU mandate will also include all battery devices that have charging cables, like wireless headsets/mice/speakers/came consoles. All of them will end up with one, universal charging port: USB type-C. That is, if manufacturer wants to sell their products in EU market.

I think you misunderstood, perhaps you dont know the Epson ecotank idea?

dont bother with those cassettes! get an Epson ecotank printer, or the Canon version, junk your ink cassette printer and the cassettes, you'll thank me when you start using Epson ecotank.
I know what Epson ecotank is. And while cheaper, it has it's own flaws. E.g spilling the ink during refill or pouring the ink into wrong slot, mixing colors.
Personally, i need to have sealed ink cassettes, than ink refill from a bottle. Since i can not afford to spill the ink. I have a doggo and when mistake of spilling ink happens, my doggo may lick up the spilled ink. I'd rather be without a printer at all, than creating a hazard for my dog.

I thought you were from the north of England!

if you learnt english at school, that would explain why you like existing definitions of words, as your teachers would have been strict about the official meanings.

but if its your first language, then you dont care about how other people use the language and you'll argue about what a word should mean, and not just what it does mean!
I kinda wonder, what made you think i'm from the Northern England. :unsure:

My native language is Estonian, so, English i learnt in school and dealing with my hobby (enthusiast computing) which now is essentially my lifestyle. Though, Estonian vs English has gotten so "bad" for me, that i anymore don't know some of the words in Estonian, but i do know them in English.

eg USB speeds are given in Gigabits, but that makes them seem larger than they really are, you need to measure USB speeds in Gigabytes, eg 10 Gigabits you mention later sounds impressive, but it is only 1.25 Gigabytes, which doesnt sound so impressive, but is good.
Mbit/s and Gbit/s is used when talking about transfer speeds, while MB and GB is used when talking about capacity.

As to why e.g internet speed is measured in bits, even though the internet delivers bytes of data, it is because the internet delivers those bytes of data as single bits at a time.
So, it's not just about bigger/more impressive number.

my argument is why not just make a laptop without the keyboard, mouse and screen!

ie just a much smaller box with some sockets, then you can attach a proper screen, mouse, keyboard etc. why do the mouse, keyboard, and monitor have to be welded together indivisibly?
Already done. This kind of device is called "mini PC".
Further reading: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-windows-mini-pcs

Thing is, while the PC itself (the core hardware) is small and portable, are you going to lug around 23" monitor, full sized KB and proper mouse as well? :unsure: Or would you rather have those 3 additional devices small and portable as well?

my existing 2010 PC is actually good enough for me, I am only upgrading because the USB seems to be worn out, and I cannot use the more modern drives or higher res monitors.
I wonder; full system specs, including PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?

I wasnt aware of that, but they need this kind of idea for compatibility of timing. ie where currently a memory card might fit, but doesnt function properly.

ie the above isnt a full standard as it doesnt standardise the timing,
RAM frequency and timings are also standardized, namely by JEDEC;
E.g DDR4 standard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR4_SDRAM#JEDEC_standard_DDR4_module

Meaning that all RAM DIMMs, regardless the generation (e.g DDR3, DDR4, DDR5), will have to work at JEDEC speeds and timings. And most of the times, RAM will work at JEDEC speeds. But if you're going to mix the RAM (e.g one DIMM of Crucial, another DIMM Corsair), then there is 0 guarantee that different DIMMs have to work together. Often they do not work together. DDR3 is quite forgiving in mixing different RAM DIMMs. DDR4 not so much. And since DDR5 essentially just came out (a year ago or so), there isn't much info on how well DDR5 works when mixing different DIMMs.

Another ballpark of RAM frequency and timings is the RAM overclock. E.g while JEDEC standard for DDR4 is up to 3200 Mhz, there are kits out there that advertise 3600 Mhz, 4200 Mhz and so forth. Any frequency or timings outside of JEDEC standard has no guarantee of working. Often they do work, when enabling the built-in XMP/DOCP profiles for RAM overclock, but when the XMP/DOCP profile doesn't work, you're either left to manually fine tune (overclock) your RAM, or use JEDEC standard speeds.

what's the largest L1 cache size available?

what I want is the L1 cache to be as big as possible, that L3 cache maybe is too big!
From what i was able to gather;

L1: 6MB , L2: 96MB, L3: 384MB - AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX, specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-threadripper-pro-7995wx
L1:? , L2: ?, L3: 1152MB - AMD EPYC 9684X, specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-epyc-9684x
L1:? , L2: ?, L3: 320MB - Intel Xeon Platinum 8593Q, specs: https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...cessor-320m-cache-2-2-ghz/specifications.html

Since official specs doesn't list L1 and L2 cache for Epyc and Xeon CPUs, i have no way of knowing how much they have L1 cache. But if given that Epyc CPU has more than 1TB of L3 cache, it's L1 cache might be the largest size currently in entire world.

Of course, what one wants and what one is able to afford - are two separate things. If you have less than $10.000 USD, then don't even look towards at any of the 3x CPUs i listed. MSRP of Threadripper is: $9999 USD, Xeon goes for $12.400 USD and Epyc goes for $14.756 USD. Then again, these three are current kings in server CPUs.

my main query with top end CPUs eg server grade ones, is do they consume too much electricity?
do they generate too much heat?
Very much so.

E.g the three kings i just listed;
Threadripper - 350W CPU
Xeon - 385W CPU
Epyc - 400W CPU

For comparison, my i5-6600K is "only" 91W CPU. So, to cool those extreme server CPUs, you need some serious cooling. And i mean, SERIOUS cooling. On top of that, all 3x CPUs can be run in dual-setup. Meaning that there are server MoBos out there with two CPU sockets, so you can run both CPUs at once, on single MoBo.

do they give data on the heat generation and electricity costs of the different mobos and cpus and graphics cards, I think graphics cards can get very hot!
CPUs and GPUs have a metric of TDP (Thermal Design Power), that shows how much wattage worth of power you need to dissipate to cool them. As for power consumption, for CPUs, the average power consumption is 1.5 of TDP. So, when CPU TDP is 400W, it's actual power consumption on full load is ~600W.

why is this flash drive getting so hot, when I havent accessed it for 30 minutes?
No active cooling and housing is usually made out of plastic, easily trapping heat inside. Though, while USB thumb drive may get warm to a touch after continous usage, that heat level isn't anything to be concerned about.

if they were powered hubs, I'd need an array of transformers!
There are. E.g this 10x USB port hub,
amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SABRENT-multiple-splitter-multiport-compatible/dp/B0797NZFYP/

Besides it being powered separately, there are on/off buttons for each port. So you don't have to unplug the cable, but instead press the switch to turn on/off the connection between plugged-in device and host device (e.g PC).

I would gladly pay an extra 200 quid to have 20 USB3 sockets on a plate linked by a fat cable to the pc.

put a dozen sata sockets whilst you are at it, and even better!
While you can have loads of USB and SATA ports (there are USB hubs and SATA expansion PCI-E cards for that), you will run into MoBo chipset limitations. And there's nothing you can do about it, other than using 2nd PC.

For example, the latest and greatest Intel 700-series chipset, namely Z790 chipset;
specs: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/229721/intel-z790-chipset.html

Can only do 14 USB ports across ENTIRE MoBo, which can be configured by MoBo manufacturer as:
Up to 5 - USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gb/s) Ports
or
Up to 10 - USB 3.2 Gen 2x1 (10Gb/s) Ports
or
Up to 10 - USB 3.2 Gen 1x1 (5Gb/s) Ports
or
14 USB 2.0 Ports

Usually you can get combination of the 4, so that you have even spread. But you can not have 39 USB ports since chipset can't do that many at once.

Same goes with SATA, where Z790 chipset supports up to 8 SATA 6.0 Gbit/s ports.
Now, you could use PCI-E to SATA expansion card, e.g this 16 port SATA expansion card that uses only one PCI-E lane;
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ACTIMED-Controller-Express-Expansion-Compatible/dp/B09L184W57/

But chipset itself only supports up to 28 PCI-E lanes. So, theoretically, if ALL 28 MoBo PCI-E lanes would only be for PCI-E x1 slots, where you can plug in those PCI-E to SATA expansion cards (by getting 28x16=448 additional SATA ports), but the thing is, there is no MoBo in the world that has 28 PCI-E x1 slots on it. ATX MoBo has space for 7 expansion slots on it. Most expansion slots are on SSI MEB MoBo, which has space for up to 12 expansion slots.

its an abuse of language! its where I have redefined SIMM to mean slot in memory.

its like some people call a car a "motor", when it is a lot more than a motor!

the word simm has become mainstream because of mobile phone simms!
and the usage of SIMM for mobile phone simms is very established, eg used all the time in tv dramas and films,
When it comes to mobile phones, there is no such thing as "SIMM". :non: What there is, is a: "SIM card".
Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_card

SIM = Subscriber Identity Module (or Subscriber Identification Module).
From where you get the 2nd "M"? :unsure:

That being said, are you going to refer those tiny identification cards inside mobile phones properly, as "SIM" or "SIM card"? Or are you doing it your own, adding 2nd "M" and confusing it with the SIMM, which = Single In-line Memory Module? :rolleyes:

You can call it as "memory module" or "RAM stick", but if you insist using "SIMM", since it's convenient to say, then you must understand that SIMM is specific type of memory module (either 32-pin or 70-pin), which is obsolete nowadays.
Current PCs memory modules are DIMMs. E.g RAM in your laptop is known as SO-DIMM (and not SO-SIMM). Then there are UDIMM (Unbuffered Dual In-line Memory Module) which is actually the RAM for desktop computers, since it's cheaper to make and doesn't contain buffer chip, like registered (buffered) server memory has it.
DDR2 and DDR3 are both 240-pin sticks, while DDR4 and DDR5 are 288-pin sticks. But all of them are still DIMMs.

It's like me talking about current day LCD/OLED monitors and calling all of them as "CRT". And that because it is convenient for me to say CRT, rather than using correct terminology and saying LCD or OLED. Yeah.... it won't fly far, regardless the excuse i may come up with.

Don't be like that and insisting using "SIMM" for all the RAM sticks out there. Either use correct terminology (DIMM) or alternatives, like "memory module" or "RAM stick".
That's my advice. :)

the fact you need to have to read up technical stuff to distinguish a dimm from a simm, means it is bad terminology for general usage. its a case where an adjective would be better, eg a dimm memory card and a simm memory card, where what you really want is a memory card compatible with your mobo and cpu.
Well, in each industry, the terminology is complex and commoner doesn't understand it. That's normal. But when two industry experts are talking, they can shorten the wording considerably. E.g it is FAR easier to say "DIMM", than "dual in-line memory module". It would waste a lot of time to spell out each and every word. E.g in your everyday life, are you always saying Central Processing Unit, or do you shorten it to CPU?

"DIMM memory card"? What? :mouais:
Memory card is completely another ballpark than RAM sticks. Memory card is usually using flash memory and is used for data storage. E.g microSD card. Mixing up terminology of volatile and non-volatile memory is really bad idea.
 

Richard1234

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I refer to it as "terminal". Can't remember exactly from where i got that word. Perhaps from GNU/Linux distro.
"terminal" is also good jargon, and probably is Linux.

in the old days, you had "dumb" "terminals" connected via say an ethernet to a mainframe. The terminal was a keyboard, monitor, and basic computer connected to the mainframe by say the ethernet. but it was as if you had your own computer. But everything you did was relayed back and forth with the mainframe.

at our uni, most of the terminals were "BBC computers", a computer produced by Acorn in conjunction with the BBC broadcasting service. Acorn are the people originally behind ARM, where ARM stands for Acorn RISC Machine. Anyway, those terminals were just one screen of just text, a bit like an MSDOS screen. where the text scrolled down the screen, basically the entire screen was like a shell, so to call a shell a terminal is good jargon.

in those days you'd enter a BASIC program directly on the screen eg the successive lines:

10 FOR X=1 TO 100
20 PRINT X
30 NEXT X

and then enter
RUN

and it would then echo 1 2 3 4 .... 100

(I may have misremembered the syntax)

To me, the conversation sequence within forums is a "topic" and not a "thread". Unless it is clearly marked as a "discussion".

Topic, as such, is something where OP (Original Poster) presents specific question/request and others help OP with replies. Due to that, there are "on topic" and "off topic" replies. On topic replies respond to the established subject in 1st (initial) post. While off topic replies deviate from the original subject.

Thread is more like lesser/inferior form of a topic, which is more like a discussion, without any clear goal/path to restrain the discussion to initial subject. In a thread, the subject often changes as well, as discussion flows. Starting from A, moves to B, changes to C and so forth. A fluid conversation to say so.
I think because tomshardware is focussed on questions, a distinction is needed between questions and discussions. although on the left of the tomshardware screen it does say threads, eg "Find threads".

I spent a lot of time on forums which are discussion only, where they might also have a particular zone for questions. with those forums, everything was a thread.

anyway, the distinction that you give of topic versus thread is reasonable terminology.

for the forum software, without AI, the software doesnt know whether a discussion has an objective and so at the software level there will be just one word, eg thread, but they could have moderators enforcing say topics versus threads.


I don't force anyone to change their wording, unless it is completely off (e.g hardware specific terminology). As long as both parties understand the underlying context, it matters little which words to use, to get the point across.

if a statement or action is totally wrong its a "gaffe", or a "blunder". what I want is terminology where a group of people via timetravel from say 1985, 1995, 2005, 2015, 2025 can discuss using the same terminology and even if from different OSes and systems. my preference for terminals is shell, because Linux is a reimplementation of Unix, and with Unix they developed the bourne shell, the c shell etc.

where I think the terminology of "shell" is earlier than "terminal", as explained above, "terminal" was the terminology for the dumb terminals for a remote mainframe and is early terminology, but Linux has repurposed the terminology for shells.

but you could perhaps call the window a terminal, and the specific shell program run within the window the shell.

Any 3.5mm jack speaker/headphone/headset/mic will work in there and you don't have to use solely headset (headphones with mic) in it, despite it was created for headset.

It's like the combo PS/2 port, that can use KB and mice at the same time (when using Y-splitter), but it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to use both at the same time for it to work. Using individual hardware works also.


When it comes to cars and body color, most default color options are dull, either silver or dark grey. Some manufacturers offer other colors for a fee (e.g dark green or dark red) but most people don't want to pay extra for body color.
I got talked into a free quote for a new Renault, I told them I wanted 2nd hand, but they said no obligation, and with that it was something like: silver no extra cost, then these colours here an extra
£300, where it was many colours such as yellow, green etc. And then, for blue an extra £400, and metallic red and extra £500!

but I may have misremembered the precise costs, and it might have been metallic blue.


Then there are car brands that are very strict with their car body color. Ferrari is the worst in that regard. For Ferrari, brand colors are red, black, yellow and there have been some white ones. But have you ever seen a pink Ferrari? Heck, even if you custom vinyl wrap your Ferrari, you will get sued.
5 cases where Ferrari has sued their car owners: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/5-times-ferrari-sued-its-own-fans/

E.g even i have custom vinyl wrapped my car. Bought it used (so, no body color option when buying brand new) and it came with dark grey body color that looks a lot more black than actual gray. A very dull looking color. So, i payed good money for the color i wanted. Now, i have a Subaru and while blue is also Subaru brand color, the blue color i picked, is more vibrant and shiny than the brand blue of Subaru. The color i picked is: "1080-G337 Gloss Blue Fire" (Google it to see how it looks). This makes my car distinct and i like it that way. Very easy to find in a parking lot. :cheese: Also, beautiful to look at it as well.

So, my overall take on car body color is: when buying brand new, pick the cheapest default color, afterwards, custom vinyl wrap your car to any color you like. You can even create unique, individual patterns if you so desire. Vinyl wrapping is far cheaper than actually repainting the car. And if you don't like the vinyl wrap anymore, you can easily remove it as well. While when you painted the car, you have to repaint it again (taking far more time and money than removing vinyl wrap). Also, vinyl wrap protects the car body somewhat, since it adds another protective layer on top of the car body.
I havent heard of vinyl wrap, do you wrap the car yourself or does it have to be done by a firm?

if it shields the paint, that could be good for when you come to sell it, as you could remove the vinyl and it is in factory fresh condition!

main 2 questions: is there a fire risk? and will it cope with a modern automated carwash?

main negative of standing out, like with personalised number plates, is that if you get into trouble and have to escape, people may remember the car or number plate!

but if you had a silver car by an obscure manufacturer with a complicated number plate, people wont be able to remember!

in the old days when car keys caused the car to beep when pressed, people would locate their car from the sound when they pressed the remote. but I think nowadays the cars are silent and just flash the lights.

its best to buy second hand, as there is a big drop in price each year of usage, probably best is to buy a 2 year old car as it is still pretty new. mine was 3 years old, and once it reached approx 8 years, difficult to get spare parts, eg it needed a new clutch, and these are no longer manufactured, I had to get a reconditioned one.

in Britain the moment you buy a car, it loses 20% of the value, because VAT tax is only on new cars (I think).

some people like to buy new, because they dont want a used item, but all new cars are used, because they have to drive the cars onto transporter lorries, and then from the transporter lorry into the dealership yard, so by the time you buy a new car it has been driven by various people!

There are things regarding PC hardware that i advocate for. For example: i always suggest people to buy PC as parts and assemble the PC by themselves. Since for one, you get more performance for your money, compared when you buy prebuilt; and for two, you can customize your desktop PC as you see fit, making the PC individual according to your own taste and needs. Compared to prebuilt that has some dull theme that you're stuck with it.
basically tailor made or bespoke! eg get a bluray writer drive by Panasonic rather than some cheap DVD drive. my bluray writer has dust prevention!

Especially worse are Dell prebuilt PCs, that often have proprietary MoBo/PSU/PC case. There are countless of topics here in TH (Tom's Hardware) where people have bought cheap Dell prebuilt desktop PCs and are looking into ways of upgrading the hardware, where end result is, that due to proprietary hardware in them, one can not upgrade the desktop PC. It's like having a laptop.
I think Dell is for people who just want to write emails, browse the internet, maybe use a wordprocessor. similarly HP, ultimately you need to build your own, your PC will then be ahead of those in the shops for at least 5 years, where its a false economy to buy the cheap ready made ones.

E.g while you can slot in beefier GPU, but better GPU usually requires more power, whereby one also needs to upgrade PSU to higher wattage capacity unit. But since Dell prebuilts often have proprietary power connectors, one just can't put in standard ATX PSU. And Dell proprietary PSUs are usually low wattage units, 230W to ~500W tops. While most modern GPUs require at least 650W PSU.
its a bit like Apple, where they try to corner you into their own goods. its a trap!

there is an interesting biopic on Steve Jobs and how he controlled everything:

https://www.amazon.com/Steve-Jobs-Michael-Fassbender/dp/B016C9WS84

So, ideally, it would be best when manufacturers would listen industry experts of what or which or how the hardware should be, rather than deciding on their own and throwing it to the masses. But the thing is, masses are content with the hardware put out and few voices of the experts aren't enough to change manufacturer's mind.

Sometimes, legislators, who are in the position of power to make changes, do make changes for the masses, in favor of the masses and ease of use, rather than letting manufacturers run rampant and as they see fit.
Best example would be EU (European Union) whereby there is a mandate that every smart phone must have same, universal charging port (USB type-C). Before that mandate, every smart phone (or mobile phone) had their own, proprietary charging port. Whereby when you change phone brand, you had to buy new charging cable for your phone, making old charging cable prime candidate of e-waste.
So, in EU it's simple: either follow the mandate and put USB type-C port as charging port on your phone OR don't sell the device in EU market.
this is where the EU is good.

the main problem with the EU, is the real reason the EU was set up was to prevent Germany starting another war, where they arranged for Germany to basically be at the top of the EU, in order that Germany couldnt complain of being pushed around by other countries. You may have noticed that Germany dominates the EU where everything is what Germany wants.

but this is undemocratic, and the only 2 countries who opposed Germany in world war 2 were Britain and Russia, where Britain was the only country in the EU which helped defeat Germany in WW2, but with the EU Germany has the most power, and France the 2nd most. So Britain was being pushed around, and there are only 2 countries who followed all the EU rules which are Britain and Germany.

Apple has been the one who fights hard against that mandate, by claiming that their proprietary charging port is better than USB type-C. But as time moves on, EU legislators won't budge and Apple has to make the decision. E.g i don't mind Apple going away from EU market. Oh, that EU mandate will also include all battery devices that have charging cables, like wireless headsets/mice/speakers/came consoles. All of them will end up with one, universal charging port: USB type-C. That is, if manufacturer wants to sell their products in EU market.

main question is whether Apple is richer than the EU!

some of these US companies make more money than most countries!

I never liked Apple, I dont like their smartphone and computer interfaces, best user system today is Windows.

I know what Epson ecotank is. And while cheaper, it has it's own flaws. E.g spilling the ink during refill or pouring the ink into wrong slot, mixing colors.
you need to be super careful when filling the tanks, check and double check each filling, check the label on the bottle, the label on the tank, the newer ones have less risk of spillage, as the opening of the bottle is nonstandard, where the printer empties out the bottle, you cant just pour out the ink!

a specific bottle set will work on more than one Epson Ecotank model, eg the ones for my old ET4550 worked on I think the ET2660. but my new A3 Ecotank ET-16150 uses different bottles, when the ink is different, the bottles are different to prevent mistakes. where I cannot use the unused remaining bottles of my ET4550, as its a different ink and a different bottle, seems to be a finer ink.



Personally, i need to have sealed ink cassettes, than ink refill from a bottle. Since i can not afford to spill the ink. I have a doggo and when mistake of spilling ink happens, my doggo may lick up the spilled ink. I'd rather be without a printer at all, than creating a hazard for my dog.
you wont spill any ink with the ET-16150! only the printer can extract the ink.

you have to place the bottle upside down on the tank nozzle, and then click on the maintenance software before the ink then empties automatically. with the ET4550, I had to manually squeeze the bottle to empty it, and would wear disposable gloves, and maybe a tiny bit of ink on those.

You'd need to keep the dog out of the room when you refill the ink. I would say to have a room where you dont allow the dog, dogs are intelligent and understand territory, so the dog would learn to not enter such a room even if the door was open!

with the earlier ecotanks, you might just get a few drips of spillage, if you put the printer on a binliner when refilling there wouldnt be any drips on the carpet.


I kinda wonder, what made you think i'm from the Northern England. :unsure:
could be you picked up northern english usage from people on the forum, eg people up north usually refer to their wife as the missus!

My native language is Estonian, so, English i learnt in school and dealing with my hobby (enthusiast computing) which now is essentially my lifestyle. Though, Estonian vs English has gotten so "bad" for me, that i anymore don't know some of the words in Estonian, but i do know them in English.
I started watching a lot of american tv on youtube in 2019, and it took some weeks to adjust to spoken american english, written american english is almost identical to written british english, but when spoken is totally different. canadian english is slightly different from american english also. Eventually I had watched so often, that when I watched british tv, it was some effort to understand!

the best way to learn something is to be interested, so you'll learn english much better by using it exclusively for your interest.

Mbit/s and Gbit/s is used when talking about transfer speeds, while MB and GB is used when talking about capacity.

As to why e.g internet speed is measured in bits, even though the internet delivers bytes of data, it is because the internet delivers those bytes of data as single bits at a time.
So, it's not just about bigger/more impressive number.

the way it is delivered is an implementation detail! the way it is received by an app is bytes!

its best if everything uses the same of reference, either bytes for everything or bits for everything,

if you use bytes here and bits there it leads to confusion, eg many people think the data rate for USB is bytes per second.


Already done. This kind of device is called "mini PC".
Further reading: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-windows-mini-pcs

Thing is, while the PC itself (the core hardware) is small and portable, are you going to lug around 23" monitor, full sized KB and proper mouse as well? :unsure: Or would you rather have those 3 additional devices small and portable as well?
the idea is they design something for this specific use!

and eg at a hotel, just connect to the presumably HD television, and at home have a top end monitor,
but when on the road, take some cheap 16" screen.

maybe via bluetooth the box can transmit to the smartphone screen?

another possibility is to have a monitor like a tablet without the OS, connected either via cable or bluetooth to the box.

I work with what can be not with what is! eg we continually see new hardware emerge, eg the iphone in 2011, but this happens because some engineer decides the way things are done is no good and he thinks of what CAN be, and then implements this and we have a new hardware product.

but if we only work with what is, then there will be no progress, we would still be speaking ye olde english!


I wonder; full system specs, including PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?
I bought a high quality PSU by Corsair in recent years when Maplins went bankrupt, RM1000X, where it has sockets for removable cables, where the hope is the socket limits ensure it isnt overloaded. whereas with my old PSU I'd use power cable splitters repeatedly and probably overloaded.

the mobo and hardware info is:

http://www.directemails.info/tom/mobo.jpg

current problems:

USB sometimes fails, eg wireless dongle vanishes, disk drives vanish whilst in use
cannot handle graphics above HD, maybe just need to upgrade gfx card
cannot handle larger drives, eg 5T, but I havent retried that with the USB3 card installed.


RAM frequency and timings are also standardized, namely by JEDEC;
E.g DDR4 standard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR4_SDRAM#JEDEC_standard_DDR4_module

Meaning that all RAM DIMMs, regardless the generation (e.g DDR3, DDR4, DDR5), will have to work at JEDEC speeds and timings. And most of the times, RAM will work at JEDEC speeds. But if you're going to mix the RAM (e.g one DIMM of Crucial, another DIMM Corsair), then there is 0 guarantee that different DIMMs have to work together. Often they do not work together. DDR3 is quite forgiving in mixing different RAM DIMMs. DDR4 not so much. And since DDR5 essentially just came out (a year ago or so), there isn't much info on how well DDR5 works when mixing different DIMMs.

Another ballpark of RAM frequency and timings is the RAM overclock. E.g while JEDEC standard for DDR4 is up to 3200 Mhz, there are kits out there that advertise 3600 Mhz, 4200 Mhz and so forth. Any frequency or timings outside of JEDEC standard has no guarantee of working. Often they do work, when enabling the built-in XMP/DOCP profiles for RAM overclock, but when the XMP/DOCP profile doesn't work, you're either left to manually fine tune (overclock) your RAM, or use JEDEC standard speeds.
I think overclocking is mainly for games for ordinary usage you shouldnt overclock!

you need to keep within safe limits, with a game, it doesnt matter if the machine crashes, but if you are trying to sell all your shares in a market crash you dont want the machine to crash!

From what i was able to gather;

L1: 6MB , L2: 96MB, L3: 384MB - AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 7995WX, specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-threadripper-pro-7995wx
L1:? , L2: ?, L3: 1152MB - AMD EPYC 9684X, specs: https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-epyc-9684x
L1:? , L2: ?, L3: 320MB - Intel Xeon Platinum 8593Q, specs: https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...cessor-320m-cache-2-2-ghz/specifications.html

Since official specs doesn't list L1 and L2 cache for Epyc and Xeon CPUs, i have no way of knowing how much they have L1 cache. But if given that Epyc CPU has more than 1TB of L3 cache, it's L1 cache might be the largest size currently in entire world.

Of course, what one wants and what one is able to afford - are two separate things. If you have less than $10.000 USD, then don't even look towards at any of the 3x CPUs i listed. MSRP of Threadripper is: $9999 USD, Xeon goes for $12.400 USD and Epyc goes for $14.756 USD. Then again, these three are current kings in server CPUs.

in the UK and the US $10.000 = $10, so I can buy 100 of them!

but I think you are using the german notation for numbers where 10000 = 10.000

but 10.000 in Germany is 10,000 or 10000 in the UK and the US,

123,456,789.01 in the UK and US is 123.456.789,01 in Germany!

and 12.345,678 in Germany would be approx 12345 in the UK
but 12.345,678 in the UK would be approx 12 in Germany!

BEWARE!

as you are in an english speaking forum, I think you need to use the british and US notation for numbers. whereas in an estonian forum you can use the other notation.

I have some financial dealings with Germany including a german eurozone bank account, and I have to be super careful when dealing with Germany to avoid sending the wrong amount of money.

I avoid using commas and full stops, as I might send or request the wrong money!

in Britain and the US and eg in the commonwealth countries eg british africa, australia, etc the idea is that comma "," and full stop or decimal point "." for numbers are used the same way for ordinary text, eg we say:

here is a list of animals: lion, hippo, cat, giraffe.

the digits of a number are listed like that: 123,456,789. where the full stop is the end of the main number, after that is the list of the further digits,

123,456,789.012,345,678

where comma is just to make it look neater, its optional, and you could put the comma after every 2 digits eg 12,34,56.78,90,12 its just to make it more readable. but the decimal point isnt optional if there are further fractional digits,
eg 10 = 10. = 10.0 = 10.00000 but we have to write .1 = 0.1 = 0,000,000.100,000,000

we find 123.456.789 very strange as you arent meant to have more than one "." !

its called "full stop" because its the end of the line. americans call it "period", which then leads to the figure of speech "we are not selling this, period". ie end of matter! not negotiable.


I would advise to avoid both "." and "," if you want your numbers to be understood in both countries!

I can reconfigure my german bank to be in english, but will they reconfigure the numbers?

I cannot take the chance, so I use neither "," nor "." or reconfigure back to german and use the german system!

I would advise reconfiguring your PC to everything US, the keyboard US, etc, because they only fully test these systems for the US config. They convert the system to other locales after the testing. I once was installing a version of Windows XP, and selected a british config, and at some point I got stuck because it was only tested for US. so nowadays I always configure my PCs to everything US, and even use US google rather than UK google, ie google.com rather than google.co.uk, but nowadays the latter redirects to the former!

once visiting Germany, I tried using Google at a library, ie google.de and couldnt find what I was looking for, then went to google.com and found without problem! also once communicating with this american guy, he could find things on Google I couldnt find on Google, and eventually found it was because he was using US google! when in Rome, do as Rome does, for computers Rome is silicon valley, the US!

one thing I dont like is the US date format eg 13th May 2023 is given as 05-13-2023,
this is because americans say May 13th 2023, whereas in Britain we say the 13th of May, or 13th May, but we understand May 13th.

the problem with this is the first number is more significant, then the second number less significant, and then the 3rd number very significant.

when I say significant I mean eg 543.21 the 5 is the most significant, and the 1 the least, because the 5 represents 500, and the 1 represents 0.01, the 500 is bigger than the 0.01 and thus "more significant".

so the american system is a bit like writing 534 for 543!


I think you should either have increasing significance eg 13-05-2023, or decreasing significance eg:
2023-05-13, but you shouldnt mix the 2 formats which is what the US does.

furthermore, the best format is 2023-05-13, because if you name files thus eg
2023_05_13_somefile.txt, the alphabetical ordering is the same as the chronological ordering!

or if you put the number as 20230513, the numerical ordering is the same as the chronological which is the same as the alphabetical provided you pad the number with zeros!

anyway, I wont spend $10000 on a cpu! maybe on a car, but not on a cpu!

Very much so.

E.g the three kings i just listed;
Threadripper - 350W CPU
Xeon - 385W CPU
Epyc - 400W CPU

For comparison, my i5-6600K is "only" 91W CPU. So, to cool those extreme server CPUs, you need some serious cooling. And i mean, SERIOUS cooling. On top of that, all 3x CPUs can be run in dual-setup. Meaning that there are server MoBos out there with two CPU sockets, so you can run both CPUs at once, on single MoBo.
the earlier Ryzen 9 7950X3D with 1MB L1 cache, is that reasonably low power to cool?

what products would you use to cool it?

in Britain today, most houses now have "smart meters", where the electric and natural gas meters are connected directly to the internet, and they have monitor devices, which show the total power by electricity and gas being used right now. if you switch off everything in the house except the PC you can see what power it is using. I think my one uses about 250 Watts.

what kind of power are we talking about with a PC built around the Ryzen 9 7950X3D?

CPUs and GPUs have a metric of TDP (Thermal Design Power), that shows how much wattage worth of power you need to dissipate to cool them. As for power consumption, for CPUs, the average power consumption is 1.5 of TDP. So, when CPU TDP is 400W, it's actual power consumption on full load is ~600W.


No active cooling and housing is usually made out of plastic, easily trapping heat inside. Though, while USB thumb drive may get warm to a touch after continous usage, that heat level isn't anything to be concerned about.
its not dangerous, but for me, heat and noise are inefficiency! that heat energy and noise energy are wasted energy.

its like in the old days if you had a monitor switched off but with the mains on, the transformer would get hot. but today, if the monitor isnt on, the transformer isnt hot, this is because more efficient!


eg I bought this shop's own brand sander, Champion, heavy noisy machine.

then I bought a Bosch, much lower wattage, smaller, lighter, and quieter! and much better!

basically the Champion one was very inefficient.


There are. E.g this 10x USB port hub,
amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SABRENT-multiple-splitter-multiport-compatible/dp/B0797NZFYP/

Besides it being powered separately, there are on/off buttons for each port. So you don't have to unplug the cable, but instead press the switch to turn on/off the connection between plugged-in device and host device (e.g PC).

that one looks really good! I plan to buy it!

where it says cable length 2 feet, is that the USB cable length or the power cable length?

there are 2 cables!

While you can have loads of USB and SATA ports (there are USB hubs and SATA expansion PCI-E cards for that), you will run into MoBo chipset limitations. And there's nothing you can do about it, other than using 2nd PC.

For example, the latest and greatest Intel 700-series chipset, namely Z790 chipset;
specs: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/229721/intel-z790-chipset.html

Can only do 14 USB ports across ENTIRE MoBo, which can be configured by MoBo manufacturer as:
Up to 5 - USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gb/s) Ports
or
Up to 10 - USB 3.2 Gen 2x1 (10Gb/s) Ports
or
Up to 10 - USB 3.2 Gen 1x1 (5Gb/s) Ports
or
14 USB 2.0 Ports

Usually you can get combination of the 4, so that you have even spread. But you can not have 39 USB ports since chipset can't do that many at once.

Same goes with SATA, where Z790 chipset supports up to 8 SATA 6.0 Gbit/s ports.
Now, you could use PCI-E to SATA expansion card, e.g this 16 port SATA expansion card that uses only one PCI-E lane;
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ACTIMED-Controller-Express-Expansion-Compatible/dp/B09L184W57/

But chipset itself only supports up to 28 PCI-E lanes. So, theoretically, if ALL 28 MoBo PCI-E lanes would only be for PCI-E x1 slots, where you can plug in those PCI-E to SATA expansion cards (by getting 28x16=448 additional SATA ports), but the thing is, there is no MoBo in the world that has 28 PCI-E x1 slots on it. ATX MoBo has space for 7 expansion slots on it. Most expansion slots are on SSI MEB MoBo, which has space for up to 12 expansion slots.
this is the problem of bottlenecks, that the one item cannot handle what the other one supplies!

like a 5 lane road narrowing to 1 lane!

or that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!



When it comes to mobile phones, there is no such thing as "SIMM". :non: What there is, is a: "SIM card".
Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_card

SIM = Subscriber Identity Module (or Subscriber Identification Module).
From where you get the 2nd "M"? :unsure:
I didnt know it was spelt SIM! I have only heard the word spoken, eg in films and when asking at a phone shop!

but it is pronounced the same as simm!

That being said, are you going to refer those tiny identification cards inside mobile phones properly, as "SIM" or "SIM card"? Or are you doing it your own, adding 2nd "M" and confusing it with the SIMM, which = Single In-line Memory Module? :rolleyes:

You can call it as "memory module" or "RAM stick", but if you insist using "SIMM", since it's convenient to say, then you must understand that SIMM is specific type of memory module (either 32-pin or 70-pin), which is obsolete nowadays.
Current PCs memory modules are DIMMs. E.g RAM in your laptop is known as SO-DIMM (and not SO-SIMM). Then there are UDIMM (Unbuffered Dual In-line Memory Module) which is actually the RAM for desktop computers, since it's cheaper to make and doesn't contain buffer chip, like registered (buffered) server memory has it.
DDR2 and DDR3 are both 240-pin sticks, while DDR4 and DDR5 are 288-pin sticks. But all of them are still DIMMs.
the thing is it was SIMM when I bought such the last time, today it is DIMM, and when I buy the next one in 8 years time, the terminology will have changed again!

its an implementation detail the differences between these things! and is only relevant to the mobo and chip designers and low level programming.


It's like me talking about current day LCD/OLED monitors and calling all of them as "CRT". And that because it is convenient for me to say CRT, rather than using correct terminology and saying LCD or OLED. Yeah.... it won't fly far, regardless the excuse i may come up with.
I always called a screen which can receive tv stations a television, and one which cant a monitor!

many people call a vacuum cleaner a hoover, when in fact hoover is a specific manufacturer!

also people call Intel based computers PCs, but "PC" means "personal computer" so an Apple an Amiga an Atari are all PCs. also the word computer is a misnomer. in the early days computers were designed to compute, ie do maths. but today's computers mostly are data shunters. eg when you copy and paste, that is data shunting, or when you send an email, or visit a webpage, or edit some text, it is all data shunting.

so the word "computer" isnt accurate, these machines really are "processors" and not "computers".

modern computers are based on the hypothetical computer called a Turing machine, invented by Alan Turing, see the film "the imitation game" about him. But todays computers arent turing machines, eg the turing machine doesnt interact ongoingly or multitask. but they are similar to a turing machine.

Don't be like that and insisting using "SIMM" for all the RAM sticks out there. Either use correct terminology (DIMM) or alternatives, like "memory module" or "RAM stick".
That's my advice. :)

in future I wont use SIMM or DIMM, but just eg memory!


Well, in each industry, the terminology is complex and commoner doesn't understand it. That's normal. But when two industry experts are talking, they can shorten the wording considerably. E.g it is FAR easier to say "DIMM", than "dual in-line memory module". It would waste a lot of time to spell out each and every word. E.g in your everyday life, are you always saying Central Processing Unit, or do you shorten it to CPU?

"DIMM memory card"? What? :mouais:
Memory card is completely another ballpark than RAM sticks. Memory card is usually using flash memory and is used for data storage. E.g microSD card. Mixing up terminology of volatile and non-volatile memory is really bad idea.

when I talk about maths, I have to use different wording depending on the level the person reached, eg some people failed maths at school, some did it to age 16, some to age 18, some did it at uni to graduate level, some to postgrad, some have done it as a career.

but some of the grads did applied maths, those who did pure maths will understand more advanced terminology, the applied maths is also more advanced in a different way.

BTW when talking of USB lids, you used the word "debree", in fact the correct spelling is "debris", where the s isnt pronounced, probably french!

the way you spelt it is phonetically correct, so you probably learnt it by ear, or from others who mis-spelt it.
 

Aeacus

Titan
Ambassador
I havent heard of vinyl wrap, do you wrap the car yourself or does it have to be done by a firm?
You could do it yourself if you like, but full car vinyl wrap is an ordeal especially when you haven't done it before. You will screw up several times before you get it right. So, if you want to do it yourself, better practice with applying window tint vinyl beforehand. Smaller surface area to work with and less effort needed to remove the screw up (e.g trapped air bubbles) or to do complete rework.

But i let mine done by a professional who has done it for years. The guy i went to, also vinyl wraps police cars, ambulances, military vehicles and company cars here in Estonia. So, well trusted professional.

main 2 questions: is there a fire risk? and will it cope with a modern automated carwash?
Fire risk of it catching fire? Or more likely to catch fire? No.

The vinyl wrap (at least the one applied to my car) was applied by using a heat gun. Not as much heat to melt plastic or anything, but enough to stretch the vinyl so that it fits snug (e.g round corners). Also, there is some form of glue on the underside of the vinyl. But glue won't stick to the car metal/plastic/paint once the vinyl is removed years after.

Vinyl wrap is 100% automated car wash safe. Did ask it specifically from the guy who did it for me and he gave me a go-ahead. Did went to automated car wash several times with the new vinyl wrap and no damage was done to the vinyl.

main negative of standing out, like with personalised number plates, is that if you get into trouble and have to escape, people may remember the car or number plate!
In a day and age, where everyone is walking around with a camera in their pocket + CCTV cameras outside, it doesn't matter if one may not remember your car color or license plate. Single image or video is enough to identify the car, even when there is little memory of the incident. So, no point not having your car individualized for your own taste.

in the old days when car keys caused the car to beep when pressed, people would locate their car from the sound when they pressed the remote. but I think nowadays the cars are silent and just flash the lights.
Mine rarely beeps sometimes. But most of the times, only flashes hazard lights. Haven't investigated why it beeps sometimes. :unsure: Probably need to look into it (since i'm not used to it beeping loudly and it startles me every time there is a loud beep).

its best to buy second hand, as there is a big drop in price each year of usage, probably best is to buy a 2 year old car as it is still pretty new. mine was 3 years old, and once it reached approx 8 years, difficult to get spare parts, eg it needed a new clutch, and these are no longer manufactured, I had to get a reconditioned one.

in Britain the moment you buy a car, it loses 20% of the value, because VAT tax is only on new cars (I think).

some people like to buy new, because they dont want a used item, but all new cars are used, because they have to drive the cars onto transporter lorries, and then from the transporter lorry into the dealership yard, so by the time you buy a new car it has been driven by various people!
It all comes down to available funds for a car. Most people aren't rich enough to afford buying brand new off the bat (paying all of it at once). Or with high enough income to be eligible for a car lease financing when buying brand new car. Heck, most new cars are bought with lease financing. And even then, many can't afford it.

E.g one of my local banks requires leased asset to be worth more than €5000, lease term is max 7 years and you have to put in 10% down payment. Now, if a brand new car costs €50.000, that means you have to fork out €5000 as 10% down payment. For €5000, you can buy entire used car and a good one at that.

While brand new car is nice, my main beef with it is, that during the leasing period, i do not own the car. Instead bank owns it, from where i got the financing of the car. And i don't like that. I'd rather have a car that is mine and mine alone, where i can customize the car as i see fit. Not the car that i can drive but is owned by the bank and i have to ask bank for any customization of the car, that is "supposed" to be mine.

the main problem with the EU, is the real reason the EU was set up was to prevent Germany starting another war, where they arranged for Germany to basically be at the top of the EU, in order that Germany couldnt complain of being pushed around by other countries. You may have noticed that Germany dominates the EU where everything is what Germany wants.

but this is undemocratic, and the only 2 countries who opposed Germany in world war 2 were Britain and Russia, where Britain was the only country in the EU which helped defeat Germany in WW2, but with the EU Germany has the most power, and France the 2nd most. So Britain was being pushed around, and there are only 2 countries who followed all the EU rules which are Britain and Germany.
Yeah, i know that one of the reasons why EU was created, was to keep the Germany in check.

As of Britain, can we now really talk about Britain as being part of the EU? Since Brexit happened.
I wonder, is life in Britain now, post-Brexit, really better than it was before? When Britain was still part of the EU? :unsure: Also, i've seen that folks over there are now talking to rejoin EU again.

Estonia joined EU in 2008. Overall, i'm leaning slightly in favor of Estonia being part of the EU.

main question is whether Apple is richer than the EU!
Simple to look it up;
Apple is the world's largest company by market capitalisation with a valuation of $2.6 trillion. At its peak in January 2022, its market cap was in excess of $3 trillion. Apple became the first company to reach $3 trillion in market value, which is more than the GDP of India, the UK and France. Even today, with a market cap of $2.6 trillion, it is higher than the GDP of Canada, Italy, South Korea, Russia, Brazil and many other countries.
Source: https://www.cnbctv18.com/business/c...-a-closer-look-at-the-tech-giant-16421141.htm

The European Union's GDP estimated to be around $18.35 trillion (nominal) in 2023 representing around one sixth of the global economy.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union

No matter how you look at it; EU's $18.35 trillion is far bigger than Apple's $3 trillion.
And even still, if the EU legislation (or EU supreme court) says: "No", then there isn't nothing that Apple can do. After all, EU is free market and Apple doesn't own EU, whereby Apple can't dictate what charging port the hardware must have.

This is so actually everywhere. Each and every country dictates their own rules and laws. So, international company who wants to sell their product in that specific country must follow that country's rules and laws. If they do not, they can not conduct business (sell products) in that country.

E.g one of the better examples would be why many USA automakers doesn't sell their cars in EU. Simple: legislation of cars in EU (namely environmental aspects) are far stricter in EU than in USA. Or in other words, EU doesn't want the USA rolling air polluters in their countries.

For example: "rolling coal";

290px-F-450_coal_rolling_Monster.jpg


Maybe amusing to watch, but very environmentally polluting.
Speaking of it, if you watch cars drive by, do you actually see smoke (gray or black) coming out of the tailpipe? Or do you see nothing?

could be you picked up northern english usage from people on the forum, eg people up north usually refer to their wife as the missus!
Well, thing is, my English is a mixture of British English and American English. :LOL: This is due to the reason, that in school, one year we had a teacher teaching British English, next year, new English teacher and they teach American English. So, i use mixture of words from both languages.

As of why i use "missus", well, we are not married, so can't use "wife". Calling her girlfriend doesn't fit well either since we've been together for 10 years. So, "missus" is the nice middle ground between the two in my opinion.

current problems:

USB sometimes fails, eg wireless dongle vanishes, disk drives vanish whilst in use
cannot handle graphics above HD, maybe just need to upgrade gfx card
cannot handle larger drives, eg 5T, but I havent retried that with the USB3 card installed.
Your MoBo (rev 2.3) specs (for easy access);
link: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-M68MT-S2P-rev-23/sp#sp

Issue #1: Could be due to aging MoBo. Sometimes, old MoBos for whatever reason, have issues maintaining USB connection.
Issue #2: Fixed with better GPU.
Issue #3: This is perplexing, since MoBo specs doesn't say that you are limited to specific drive size. Could be chipset limitation but i couldn't find what ATI/AMD chipset your MoBo runs on. The info i found is conflicting. Several sources say that correct era chipset (AMD 7-series), that supports AM3 CPU socket (like your MoBo does), are supposed to run Radeon IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor), while on Gigabyte site, your MoBo has Nvidia IGP instead. Best i could make sense of it is, that Northbridge may be AMD 740 or 740G and Southbridge could be ATI SB600. But i'm not sure.

I think overclocking is mainly for games for ordinary usage you shouldnt overclock!
Overclocking is mainly for those who want most out of their hardware. There are 3 types of OC:
* CPU OC
* GPU OC
* RAM OC

CPU OC is most known of, but with CPU OC, you need to have a CPU that actually supports OC. E.g via unlocked multiplier. Then, you'll also need MoBo that supports CPU OC (meaning that in BIOS, you have options to define CPU clock ratio or frequency).

CPU OC, as such, isn't worthwhile on latest CPUs anymore, since those run so efficiently off the bat, that the little gains in frequency one is able to achieve, isn't worthwhile.

For example;
Usually when CPU OC is done, it is all core OC, negating the effects of different Turbo Boost ratios on different core amounts.
But on the flip side, the latest CPUs are so fine tuned that they have little, if any OC headroom (frequencies over max turbo ratio).

Back in the day, with older CPUs, CPU OC was worthwhile.
E.g i have i5-6600K with 3.5 GHz base and 3.9 Ghz boost. With CPU OC, i could get it 4.5 Ghz all core (increase of 600 Mhz over boost), or with delid, ~4.7 Ghz all core (800 Mhz over boost). And there have been some delidded i5-6600K CPUs, that can hold 5 Ghz all core.

Essentially from Intel 12th gen and onwards, most chips out there can only hold all core stable 100-300 Mhz over max boost. That gain is so little, that CPU OC with current, highly efficient chips, isn't worthwhile. There won't be any meaningful performance increase.
If the headroom would be bigger, like it is with my 6th gen CPU, where on minimum, i look towards 600 Mhz increase over boost clocks (or up to 1.1 Ghz over boost, if very lucky with delidded chip), then CPU OC makes sense.

All-in-all, CPU OC is dying niche and outside of record breaking, isn't worth the effort anymore. Better to run stock clocks and let CPU to decide when to turbo up. Less energy waste and less heat production this way also. Not to mention CPU lifespan, since when running stock clocks, CPU lifespan is easy 10+ years. Running all core OC 24/7 will reduce CPU lifespan considerably. E.g if i were to run 4.5 Ghz on my i5-6600K, i could cut the CPU lifespan in half. And when running CPU at high OC levels, the absolute maximum CPU is able to run at (e.g ~4.7 Ghz on my i5-6600K), you can burn out the chip in 1-2 years.

GPU OC is mainly done to get more FPS in games. But when one uses GPU render (e.g 3D render), then GPU OC can reduce render times as well. Still, as with CPU OC, GPU OC can also wear out GPU much faster than it was expected to last.

RAM OC is the safest of the three since when RAM stick is manufactured to run at e.g 3600 Mhz (above JEDEC standard) then it will do so for years + you keep your RAM warranty as well. While with CPU/GPU OC, manufacturer usually won't uphold the warranty if you wear out the component due to high OC level.

E.g in my Skylake build, the JEDEC standard frequency for RAM is 2133 Mhz. But i'm running Kingston Savage RAM at 3000 Mhz which was designed to run at 3000 Mhz. My build is 7 years old now and still running strong. Though, i don't have CPU and GPU OC on my components, instead, i'm running stock clocks on those two. But RAM OC is safe and gives you increased performance all around and not just in games.

I would advise to avoid both "." and "," if you want your numbers to be understood in both countries!
I used the "." for easier read. Didn't mean to confuse it.

In Estonia, numbers and fractions are written as follows: 12256,57 (twelve thousand two hundred fifty six comma fifty seven).
We do not use "." at all when writing numbers. Only "," to identify fracions.

I would advise reconfiguring your PC to everything US, the keyboard US, etc, because they only fully test these systems for the US config.
For the most part, my PCs are configured as US. Except time zone, which currently is GMT+02:00 (winter time) or GMT+03:00 (summer time). And keyboard, that i have in EE layout. Because for the latter, i can type Estonian letters which are crucial to be used, like: "ü, õ, ö, ä". Language of my OS is English, since Estonian language Windows is TERRIBLE.

2023-05-13, but you shouldnt mix the 2 formats which is what the US does.
There are many things US does differently (worse) than rest of the world.
E.g length measurement. In US, they use Inch/Foot/Yard/Mile, while almost everyone else are using Si units (Kilometer/Meter).
For volume - US uses Gallon/Ounce/Pint; others use Si units of: Liter/Cubic Meter.
For temperature - US uses Fahrenheit; most others use Celsius (including all PC hardware) and Si unit is Kelvin.
For area - US uses Acre; most others use Si unit of Square Meter.
Etc.

Making calculations in metric unit is simple, since most values change by the figure of 10 (decimal system). But you try calculating in imperial units, used mainly in US but in UK as well. I doubt you can do it without calculator.

Here's nice explanatory video about imperial vs metric:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hid7EJkwDNk


the earlier Ryzen 9 7950X3D with 1MB L1 cache, is that reasonably low power to cool?

what products would you use to cool it?
That chip is reasonable 120W.

For cooling: any tower-type air cooler. E.g Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE (current king of air coolers), or Noctua NH-D15S (or NH-U14S) or Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 (including Dark Rock Elite).

what kind of power are we talking about with a PC built around the Ryzen 9 7950X3D?
CPU + MoBo + RAM + some disk drives all together at max load would be ~250W. And since that CPU also includes iGPU, you don't need dedicated GPU for system to work. Just connect monitor to MoBo and you're good.

But if you add dedicated GPU into as well, then power consumption will rise, and so does graphical performance.

CPU review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-cpu-review
(I suggest you read that.)

but for me, heat and noise are inefficiency! that heat energy and noise energy are wasted energy.
If you despise inefficiency and want best efficiency as possible, then answer me this:
Why did you buy 80+ Gold Corsair RM1000x and not 80+ Titanium PSU? :unsure:

In PSU world, 80+ Titanium is the highest efficiency there is.
80+ efficiency levels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus#Efficiency_level_certifications

Like my PSUs;
Skylake build - Seasonic PRIME 650 (80+ Titanium) [SSR-650TD]
Haswell build - Seasonic PRIME TX-650 (80+ Titanium) [SSR-650TR]
Old AMD build - Seasonic Focus PX-550 (80+ Platinum) [SSR-550PX]

My 80+ Titanium units, at 50% load, are 96% efficient, while your Corsair RMx 80+ Gold unit, at 50% load is only 92% efficient. That's 4% difference in wasted electricity as excess heat.
While 4% difference isn't much, but when you put that into watts and multiply it by elapsed time, difference is big.

I'll give you efficiency example, with 400W load on PSU and 3 different PSUs: 650W 80+ Titanium, 1000W 80+ Titanium, 1000W 80+ Gold. Also, keep in mind that PSU is most efficient when load on it is 50%-80% of it's max rated capacity.

For 650W unit, i'll take my own PSU, Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium [SSR-650TD] as an example (btw, the best PSU money could buy at the time of purchase, back in 2016, and still, one of the best, if not the best, PSU out there).

80+ Titanium PSU has efficiency rating of:
On 20% load - 94%
On 50% load - 96%
On 100% load - 94%

So, for e.g. 400W load on my 650W unit, would be 61.5%, meaning that the PSU is ~96% efficient, where only 4% of power is wasted as excess heat. Meaning that the PSU draws ~416W from the wall, gives 400W to components and wastes only ~16W as excess heat.

Same 400W load on 1kW PSU (e.g Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 80+ Titanium) would mean that the PSU is ~94% efficient, since load on PSU would be 40%. Meaning that PSU draws ~424W from the wall, gives 400W to components and wastes ~24W as excess heat.

But if you'd get 1kW 80+ Gold PSU, which is the norm today (e.g your Corsair RM1000x 80+ Gold), with efficiency ratings of:
On 20% load - 90%
On 50% load - 92%
On 100% load - 89%
Would mean that on 400W load, PSU is ~90% efficient since load on PSU would be 40%. In this case, PSU pulls ~440W from wall, gives 400W to components and wastes ~40W as excess heat.

So, would you rather use PSU that wastes:
#1 ~40W as excess heat on 400W output (80+ Gold Corsair RM1000x)
or
#2 ~24W as excess heat on 400W output (80+ Titanium Seasonic PRIME TX-1000)
or
#3 ~16W as excess heat on 400W output (80+ Titanium Seasonic PRIME TX-650)
?

where it says cable length 2 feet, is that the USB cable length or the power cable length?
Amazon listing has product preview video included that shows unboxing as well. I looked at it and power cable seemed pretty long, maybe even more than the 60cm (2 feet). USB cable seemed shorter. Though, even if USB cable is too short for your use, there are USB extension cables out there (even i have one such USB extension cable that i bought but never used).

many people call a vacuum cleaner a hoover, when in fact hoover is a specific manufacturer!
I do have Hoover's hoover as well. :D Though, it got obsolete and replaced with far superior Dyson V11 Absolute (cordless stick vacuum cleaner).
And now, i'm thinking to buy Dyson V15 or Dyson Outsize for several reasons. Though V11 Absolute is still going strong but it doesn't have features we'd need.

BTW when talking of USB lids, you used the word "debree", in fact the correct spelling is "debris", where the s isnt pronounced, probably french!

the way you spelt it is phonetically correct, so you probably learnt it by ear, or from others who mis-spelt it.
Did look it up and yes, "debree" is "debris" as it is pronounced and not written. My bad. Though, i do have spell check on, so that i don't mess up the words grammatical part but for some reason, the spell check didn't catch debree as being wrong word. Need to fix that and remove debree from spell check dictionary.

But when to nitpick about correct grammar ;), then;
where the s isnt pronounced
"isnt" must be "isn't" or "is not".
but you shouldnt mix the 2 formats
"shouldnt" must be "shouldn't" or "should not".

And there are more words in your reply where you've left out the apostrophe.
Two can play at this game. ;)

Though, one of my long replies takes me 3-4 hours to type since i also research subjects when replying. And since i'm not a machine, errors in grammar can happen. Or in other words: "To err is human.". :)
 
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Richard1234

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You could do it yourself if you like, but full car vinyl wrap is an ordeal especially when you haven't done it before. You will screw up several times before you get it right. So, if you want to do it yourself, better practice with applying window tint vinyl beforehand. Smaller surface area to work with and less effort needed to remove the screw up (e.g trapped air bubbles) or to do complete rework.

But i let mine done by a professional who has done it for years. The guy i went to, also vinyl wraps police cars, ambulances, military vehicles and company cars here in Estonia. So, well trusted professional.

why do the police + ambulances + military use it?

Fire risk of it catching fire? Or more likely to catch fire? No.

The vinyl wrap (at least the one applied to my car) was applied by using a heat gun. Not as much heat to melt plastic or anything, but enough to stretch the vinyl so that it fits snug (e.g round corners). Also, there is some form of glue on the underside of the vinyl. But glue won't stick to the car metal/plastic/paint once the vinyl is removed years after.

Vinyl wrap is 100% automated car wash safe. Did ask it specifically from the guy who did it for me and he gave me a go-ahead. Did went to automated car wash several times with the new vinyl wrap and no damage was done to the vinyl.

"did go" not "did went"! and "did go to an automated car wash ...", or "did go to the automated car wash..." although when I write in a hurry, I sometimes forget "the" because writing something different from what I'm thinking!

"did" converts the verb to past tense, either "I went" or "I did go", I never learnt grammar, I just know what is right from how it sounds! I sometimes break the grammar a bit where the grammar is inefficient! overclocked grammar!

In a day and age, where everyone is walking around with a camera in their pocket + CCTV cameras outside, it doesn't matter if one may not remember your car color or license plate. Single image or video is enough to identify the car, even when there is little memory of the incident. So, no point not having your car individualized for your own taste.
fair point!

Mine rarely beeps sometimes. But most of the times, only flashes hazard lights. Haven't investigated why it beeps sometimes. :unsure: Probably need to look into it (since i'm not used to it beeping loudly and it startles me every time there is a loud beep).
maybe whatever loudspeaker it has, the contacts have corroded!

It all comes down to available funds for a car. Most people aren't rich enough to afford buying brand new off the bat (paying all of it at once). Or with high enough income to be eligible for a car lease financing when buying brand new car. Heck, most new cars are bought with lease financing. And even then, many can't afford it.

E.g one of my local banks requires leased asset to be worth more than €5000, lease term is max 7 years and you have to put in 10% down payment. Now, if a brand new car costs €50.000, that means you have to fork out €5000 as 10% down payment. For €5000, you can buy entire used car and a good one at that.

While brand new car is nice, my main beef with it is, that during the leasing period, i do not own the car. Instead bank owns it, from where i got the financing of the car. And i don't like that. I'd rather have a car that is mine and mine alone, where i can customize the car as i see fit. Not the car that i can drive but is owned by the bank and i have to ask bank for any customization of the car, that is "supposed" to be mine.
financially, all machines are effectively rented, because of the phenomenon of "amortisation"!

say you buy a Worcester central heating condensing boiler in the UK, it costs maybe £2500

and you need to get it serviced each year for the 10 year parts and labour warranty, which I think is maybe £70 for each service.

the machine probably wont last more than 13 years, because of wear and tear.

so after 13 years, you have paid out 2500 + 70 x 13 = £3410,

and now you have to buy another one! so each 10 years another 3410 if we disregard inflation and technology progress.

now some people think they own that machine, they pay 2500, then 70 each year, but after 13 years it doesnt function. oh no! they then have to struggle to find another 2500 etc.

but the accountants look at this differently via "amortisation", where they say really it costs 3410/13 per year, which is 262.31 per year, which is £5.03 per week or 21.85 per month if you work to a monthly schedule of payments.

so the more prudent person will set aside £5.03 per week towards the central heating, and when 13 years have gone by, they have 3412 in the bank set aside, 2500 goes on the boiler without having to struggle, and they will sail through the next 13 years on that 3412, and meanwhile put aside 5.03 each week. that money goes on safe investments, and the interest means in fact less than 5.03 per week is needed!

but the imprudent person doesnt set aside any money, and when an item wears out, and all machines and equipment wear out, they are hit with a big fee.

now the net effect is that you are "effectively" renting the boiler and the servicing, at £5.03 per week.

the car is like that, after 8 years it is obsolete etc. and has eg car tax, annual service + MOT, insurance, if you amortise all those costs, it is rented!

you can sell the car to put towards the next car, which does reduce the amortisation cost.

now when I had the free quote on a new Renault, I learnt a lot, what they told me is some people buy new, and then after 1 year they refinance to a different new one! that way they effectively rent a new car forever! they are always driving the latest technology at most 1 year old, and when they sell theirs after 1 year, that is at the top of the foodchain of the 2nd hand car market. others sell after 2 years.

in the UK, you can tell which year a car is from, by looking at the middle 2 digits, eg if it is 13 or 63, the car is from 2013. probably the second half of 2013 is 13 + 50 = 63. cars of 2023 will have 23 or 73 as the middle 2 digits. personalised number plates dont follow any scheme!

some people as a matter of ego want to always drive a car with this year's number plate!

but you could also buy outright new, then sell after 1 year, and buy new again, and it would cost less than refinancing. here the amortisation is simply lower than renting!

where financing can be better than buying is where you have "arbitrage", where you can invest at a better rate than the financing, eg if the financing is 6%, I can invest at 9%, where I have the money up front, I then invest the remaining cost at 9%, and pay out at 6%, and make maybe 1.5% on that money!

whereas if I paid up front, I cannot invest that money as already spent, so by using finance I make more money than by paying in full!

this is adept finance, and this example is about the principle of arbitrage.

there are 2 concepts here: amortisation where all equipment and houses etc are effectively rented, and the other is arbitrage, where its ok to borrow if you can also lend at an even higher rate!

eg I got my boiler at £2547 on 0% finance over 10 months, but I could invest that money at 8%, so I took the finance, and over those 10 months made 93.39 profit versus not using the finance!

nothing is truly owned, only borrowed from the universe, eventually it has to be returned to the universe! even your body is borrowed from the food you eat, and is different atoms from say 20 years ago!

I enquired during covid about an electric Peugeot 308, they said £34870, which is way too expensive, but I was curious what the deal was, and with 0% finance for 4 years if I deposit 40%. if I were to buy that, which I wont, I would take the 0% finance, as I'd only pay £13948 deposit, and then invest the £20922 at 9% over the 4 years, where according to a spreadsheet I made just now, I would make £3844.42 in interest! ie it would only cost me 34870-3844.92=£31025. whereas if I blew that money up front, it would cost me more!

also it spreads the load better: 13948, 435.88, 435.88, 435.88 .... for the 48 months,
versus 34870,0,0,0,.... 0 and pay more in total!

Yeah, i know that one of the reasons why EU was created, was to keep the Germany in check.

As of Britain, can we now really talk about Britain as being part of the EU? Since Brexit happened.

its not part of the EU, but was until end of 2020, so because one doesnt just talk about right now, but about all time till now, we "are" in the EU in terms of the years up to 2020. ie the EU is relevant in terms of its legacy and its effect on those years when we were in the EU.

its like if you finished school 3 months ago, although technically you are no longer at the school, you are still mentally and maybe socially still at the school! it still exerts an influence, eg in terms of established things, and in terms of memory.

or say you search day after day for some object, then find it. later on you might continue searching for it out of habit!


I wonder, is life in Britain now, post-Brexit, really better than it was before? When Britain was still part of the EU? :unsure:
the fact is that the covid shutdown has made all places worse than before Brexit, ie the big problem isnt being inside or outside the EU but the covid shutdown!

covid is the "elephant in the room". its like say someone stole your laptop and someone else gives you a bottle of apple juice from you, and I ask you: do you feel better because you were given some apple juice?

the answer is that the apple juice gift is eclipsed by the stealing of the laptop!

the big problem with the EU for Britain, was that an agenda was being pushed mainly by Germany and France, where we had no power. nobody knows what goes on in the EU parliament! it seems to be all kinds of agendas and vested interests.

we are better off arranging our own things. eg Britain has a better health service than Germany, the NHS. with Germany, all hospitals are private and ambulances are private, small minivans. with the hospitals paid for by health insurance, eg AOK. some of those private hospitals are great, but some arent. its anyway problematic to mix profit with healthcare! a conflict of interest!

but in the UK, all the hospitals and ambulances are government, and we get high tech ambulances and hospitals, with the latest equipment. In Germany, the patient has to tell the ambulance which hospital to use, in the UK they just take you to the nearest relevant NHS hospital.

if you stay in the EU, eventually everything will be whatever Germany does! now some things Germany does really well, but others really badly, and we cant just blindly have whatever Germany decides!

the germans arent gods!

before WW2, Britain was the most powerful country on earth, where the empire was vast, and Britain was more powerful than Germany. but with the EU, the EU severed Britain's ties with the former empire and settlement colonies such as the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. and so of course Britain declined in power. the truth is I can visit US forums and newsletters and seamlessly participate, whereas with the EU, I cannot because other than Ireland, most people in all the other countries dont speak english. we have more in common with all the english speaking countries than with the EU!

once on a Youtube forum, I said "Britain's health service is far better than america's", and this american guy angrily said: "well, go and live there then!". I laughed and said I already do, and have been living here for more than 40 years! basically england and the US are so similar, that the guy thought I was an american!

but no chance of that with any EU country except maybe Ireland!

with Brexit, britain can re-establish the links with the anglophone countries. we all speak the same language, and have societies based on the same legal and commercial systems.

historically, Germany dominated europe, but Britain dominated the world. ultimately because Britain is a maritime nation, with a big coastline and commands the atlantic like Portugal does. whereas Germany has only a tiny coastline in the north at the baltic. eg during WW2, all the german submarines had to get into the ocean from a small zone near Pienemunde. Italy commands the mediterranean, and the roman empire only commanded europe and north africa. but Britain commands the atlantic and commanded most of the world!

we dont need the EU, Britain with help from the US essentially founded the EU after WW2.





Also, i've seen that folks over there are now talking to rejoin EU again.
there is a big minority who want the EU, but a bigger majority who dont! that is all rumour mill and wishful thinking. Britain as a country is outdoing Germany, Japan, France, the US.

Germany is doing really badly.


Estonia joined EU in 2008. Overall, i'm leaning slightly in favor of Estonia being part of the EU.

for Estonia, the EU is a good idea, mainly to counterbalance Russia, and Estonia ought to join NATO if not already in it.

courses for horses! For the UK, the EU is a terrible idea, for Estonia a very good idea. For Germany a brilliant idea as they make all the big decisions!

the EU is centred in Belgium! most people will never visit Belgium and most people cant speak the languages of Belgium. in WW2, Britain was the big opposing force, and Russia defeated Germany at Stalingrad, with Britain helping by decoding the German enigma code and thus telling Russia what Germany was planning. see the film "the imitation game" about the decoding of the enigma code and Alan Turing. Belgium was not involved in the big fights, but they get the nerve centre of the EU!

why? and France dominates, but France was overrun by german tanks right at the start of WW2!

the 3 powers who defeated Germany and Japan were Britain, Russia and the US. Britain flouted Germany in north africa. Germany has no oil, and was trying to get control of oil in 2 zones: north africa, and Russia. in north africa Britain prevented them, and the russians defeated Germany at stalingrad, and then did a surge of europe westwards overrunning Berlin, and the line they reached became the iron curtain. which they then decided to keep.

there is a fantastic video on Youtube about Germany losing the war entirely because of oil. where the guy says even though Germany had all those fighter planes, tanks etc, they didnt have oil! and they only had enough oil for several further weeks of war! after that all their planes, tanks etc empty fuel tanks!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVo5I0xNRhg


right now, Germany is in jeopardy because of the russians cutting off their oil supply! same old story!

Germany is a very cold country in the winter, this is a big problem!

anyway, Germany lost the war, yet is now in charge with France assisting, when they are only free because of Britain and Russia! we cannot continue with this arrangement, we have been cheated.

the EU was getting something like £350,000,000 PER WEEK, from Britain for being a member. that money is enough to build a hospital! yes, they want Britain back, because of the money!


Simple to look it up;

Source: https://www.cnbctv18.com/business/c...-a-closer-look-at-the-tech-giant-16421141.htm


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union

No matter how you look at it; EU's $18.35 trillion is far bigger than Apple's $3 trillion.
And even still, if the EU legislation (or EU supreme court) says: "No", then there isn't nothing that Apple can do. After all, EU is free market and Apple doesn't own EU, whereby Apple can't dictate what charging port the hardware must have.

but they can bribe the decision makers!

This is so actually everywhere. Each and every country dictates their own rules and laws. So, international company who wants to sell their product in that specific country must follow that country's rules and laws. If they do not, they can not conduct business (sell products) in that country.

E.g one of the better examples would be why many USA automakers doesn't sell their cars in EU. Simple: legislation of cars in EU (namely environmental aspects) are far stricter in EU than in USA. Or in other words, EU doesn't want the USA rolling air polluters in their countries.

For example: "rolling coal";

290px-F-450_coal_rolling_Monster.jpg


Maybe amusing to watch, but very environmentally polluting.
Speaking of it, if you watch cars drive by, do you actually see smoke (gray or black) coming out of the tailpipe? Or do you see nothing?
I agree with the agricultural and environmental aspects of the EU. its not all bad, but ultimately Britain had to leave, because its a coercive relationship. Britain's power was always outside europe, and Germany's power was always within europe, and Britain was always more powerful than Germany up to WW2. Germany in fact was bankrupt at the start of WW2, hence war as the only option.

it is inconvenient for Britain to be in the EU, with germans and french people deciding our lives, even now after leaving the EU, the EU human rights court tells Britain what to do.

Britain is an island, its not part of the same land as Germany. You are here talking to british and american people not to germans, I think that says it all! the anglophone world is more powerful than the EU. if the EU is so good, it is dominated by Germany and you ought to be using german instead!

the EU parliament, has each politician standing and talking in a different language, with other politicians having to listen on headphones via simultaneous translation, where the translators can subvert the translation. its not practical to run an organisation using a plethora of languages!

the one guy speaks czech, the next speaks german, the next italian, polish, greek, roumanian, dutch, flemish, french, basque, spanish, welsh, gaelic etc etc. its not workable! good luck with that! this is why the US dominates over the EU, they all speak the same language, and it is english!

what happens when the estonian guy listens to the czech guy talk? they need a czech to estonian translator! then the polish guy talks, they now need a polish to estonian translator, it is crazy!


Britain dominated the world for maybe 300 years, we dont need help from Germany. Germany has made 3 major blunders economically: 1. the reichsmark which had ginormous inflation where a loaf of bread eventually cost 1 billion reichsmark. 2. unifying the ostmark with the deutchsmark, where the ostmark (DDR currency) was junk. 3. the euro. The Deutschmark was one of the top currencies, but with the euro, Greece and Italy have gone bankrupt. its bad for everyone! Britain's language is the language of the world! elite germans all have to learn english, a german even told me eventually english will be the language of Germany.


Well, thing is, my English is a mixture of British English and American English. :LOL: This is due to the reason, that in school, one year we had a teacher teaching British English, next year, new English teacher and they teach American English. So, i use mixture of words from both languages.

As of why i use "missus", well, we are not married, so can't use "wife". Calling her girlfriend doesn't fit well either since we've been together for 10 years. So, "missus" is the nice middle ground between the two in my opinion.
the modern trend in Britain for this scenario is to call the person your "partner", eg "this is my partner's computer". many people now dont marry. marriage was mostly for the era where women were housewives, where they would be in financial jeopardy if the man left her as they werent paid for cooking and cleaning and managing the kids. so marriage is a contract to balance power for women. but with women's lib, which was about all women working equal to men, women now had the same power, and marriage tilts the balance to women, because on divorce the woman gets half the man's wealth! Thus for men, it is a liability nowadays to get married. the woman can decide to leave, and will take half your wealth! some women will do this deliberately.


Your MoBo (rev 2.3) specs (for easy access);
link: https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-M68MT-S2P-rev-23/sp#sp

Issue #1: Could be due to aging MoBo. Sometimes, old MoBos for whatever reason, have issues maintaining USB connection.

I did instal a USB3 card, but I dont know if that will mitigate this problem?

Issue #2: Fixed with better GPU.
Issue #3: This is perplexing, since MoBo specs doesn't say that you are limited to specific drive size. Could be chipset limitation but i couldn't find what ATI/AMD chipset your MoBo runs on. The info i found is conflicting. Several sources say that correct era chipset (AMD 7-series), that supports AM3 CPU socket (like your MoBo does), are supposed to run Radeon IGP (Integrated Graphics Processor), while on Gigabyte site, your MoBo has Nvidia IGP instead. Best i could make sense of it is, that Northbridge may be AMD 740 or 740G and Southbridge could be ATI SB600. But i'm not sure.

there are different revisions also as you pointed out about Gigabyte in general, did you verify the revision numbers with your research?

Overclocking is mainly for those who want most out of their hardware. There are 3 types of OC:
* CPU OC
* GPU OC
* RAM OC

CPU OC is most known of, but with CPU OC, you need to have a CPU that actually supports OC. E.g via unlocked multiplier. Then, you'll also need MoBo that supports CPU OC (meaning that in BIOS, you have options to define CPU clock ratio or frequency).

CPU OC, as such, isn't worthwhile on latest CPUs anymore, since those run so efficiently off the bat, that the little gains in frequency one is able to achieve, isn't worthwhile.

For example;
Usually when CPU OC is done, it is all core OC, negating the effects of different Turbo Boost ratios on different core amounts.
But on the flip side, the latest CPUs are so fine tuned that they have little, if any OC headroom (frequencies over max turbo ratio).

Back in the day, with older CPUs, CPU OC was worthwhile.
E.g i have i5-6600K with 3.5 GHz base and 3.9 Ghz boost. With CPU OC, i could get it 4.5 Ghz all core (increase of 600 Mhz over boost), or with delid, ~4.7 Ghz all core (800 Mhz over boost). And there have been some delidded i5-6600K CPUs, that can hold 5 Ghz all core.

Essentially from Intel 12th gen and onwards, most chips out there can only hold all core stable 100-300 Mhz over max boost. That gain is so little, that CPU OC with current, highly efficient chips, isn't worthwhile. There won't be any meaningful performance increase.
If the headroom would be bigger, like it is with my 6th gen CPU, where on minimum, i look towards 600 Mhz increase over boost clocks (or up to 1.1 Ghz over boost, if very lucky with delidded chip), then CPU OC makes sense.

All-in-all, CPU OC is dying niche and outside of record breaking, isn't worth the effort anymore. Better to run stock clocks and let CPU to decide when to turbo up. Less energy waste and less heat production this way also. Not to mention CPU lifespan, since when running stock clocks, CPU lifespan is easy 10+ years. Running all core OC 24/7 will reduce CPU lifespan considerably. E.g if i were to run 4.5 Ghz on my i5-6600K, i could cut the CPU lifespan in half. And when running CPU at high OC levels, the absolute maximum CPU is able to run at (e.g ~4.7 Ghz on my i5-6600K), you can burn out the chip in 1-2 years.

GPU OC is mainly done to get more FPS in games. But when one uses GPU render (e.g 3D render), then GPU OC can reduce render times as well. Still, as with CPU OC, GPU OC can also wear out GPU much faster than it was expected to last.

RAM OC is the safest of the three since when RAM stick is manufactured to run at e.g 3600 Mhz (above JEDEC standard) then it will do so for years + you keep your RAM warranty as well. While with CPU/GPU OC, manufacturer usually won't uphold the warranty if you wear out the component due to high OC level.

E.g in my Skylake build, the JEDEC standard frequency for RAM is 2133 Mhz. But i'm running Kingston Savage RAM at 3000 Mhz which was designed to run at 3000 Mhz. My build is 7 years old now and still running strong. Though, i don't have CPU and GPU OC on my components, instead, i'm running stock clocks on those two. But RAM OC is safe and gives you increased performance all around and not just in games.
ok, its more complicated than I thought, I will probably not overclock then. I generally prefer to use things within the safe limits, because if I dont, I can only blame myself!

I used the "." for easier read. Didn't mean to confuse it.
dont use it! in England and the US and in the commonwealth which is a far bigger population than the EU eg just India is a bigger population than the US plus the EU, "." means the demarcation where the fractional part starts, and isnt for readability, you need to use "," for readability!


In Estonia, numbers and fractions are written as follows: 12256,57 (twelve thousand two hundred fifty six comma fifty seven).
We do not use "." at all when writing numbers. Only "," to identify fracions.
in England and the US etc , that number is written 12256.57 and for readability you would write eg 12,256.57

DO NOT USE "." for readability, the 2 notations are incompatible!

only use that notation when talking to estonians, germans, etc, not here!

in english you can say one two two five six point five seven,
OR
twelve thousand two hundred and fifty six point five seven.

NEVER comma five seven!

NOT ALLOWED!

VERBOTEN!

For the most part, my PCs are configured as US. Except time zone, which currently is GMT+02:00 (winter time) or GMT+03:00 (summer time). And keyboard, that i have in EE layout. Because for the latter, i can type Estonian letters which are crucial to be used, like: "ü, õ, ö, ä". Language of my OS is English, since Estonian language Windows is TERRIBLE.

those are reasonable exemptions, namely timezone and keyboard because non latin alphabet!

and they just arent going to have tested out the Estonian language properly on Windows!

There are many things US does differently (worse) than rest of the world.
E.g length measurement. In US, they use Inch/Foot/Yard/Mile, while almost everyone else are using Si units (Kilometer/Meter).
For volume - US uses Gallon/Ounce/Pint; others use Si units of: Liter/Cubic Meter.
For temperature - US uses Fahrenheit; most others use Celsius (including all PC hardware) and Si unit is Kelvin.
For area - US uses Acre; most others use Si unit of Square Meter.
Etc.
I agree with all that, my education was entirely metric!
Britain went metric probably in 1965.

younger people only use imperial for heights, eg 5 foot 8 inches, etc, where 6 foot demarcates being tall! and some use stones for weight. I use kilos, much better.

speed limits also are all in mph, but this is handy because gear = mph/10, eg you need 2nd gear at 20mph, 3rd gear at 30mph, 4th gear at 40mph, 5th gear at 50mph! on flat land that is, on an upward hill you need a lower gear. I think the gearing system was designed around mph!

and I know what gear to be in by dividing the mph speed by 10.

where 3rd gear is centred at 30mph, 4th is centred at 40mph, you have a zone where you can use either 3rd or 4th etc, eg maybe 35mph, I probably should test this idea.

but mph/10 on flat land is always the right gear, but maybe if the car is heavily loaded, you might need a lower gear, as lower gears have more power. 1st gear has the most power and thus is the slowest, slow and powerful! 5th gear is a light touch.

Making calculations in metric unit is simple, since most values change by the figure of 10 (decimal system). But you try calculating in imperial units, used mainly in US but in UK as well. I doubt you can do it without calculator.

Here's nice explanatory video about imperial vs metric:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hid7EJkwDNk

yes, I agree 100%, luckily my education was all metric, its only older british people eg who were born in the 1950s and earlier who like imperial. the monetary system also was dreadful, eg shillings, really complicated with guineas, shillings, farthings, etc! I bought some old era coins, and they have a 3p coin! because it was based on 12! in my era, the shilling coins got repurposed to be 10 pence, and the sixpences were repurposed to be 5p, where the old coins had king george on the one side!

its a positive of the EU that they enforced metric on the UK.

That chip is reasonable 120W.

For cooling: any tower-type air cooler. E.g Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE (current king of air coolers), or Noctua NH-D15S (or NH-U14S) or Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 (including Dark Rock Elite).
I have no idea what these coolers are, nor how to use them! what I would like is the quietest one!

is the Be Quiet! one quietest?

CPU + MoBo + RAM + some disk drives all together at max load would be ~250W. And since that CPU also includes iGPU, you don't need dedicated GPU for system to work. Just connect monitor to MoBo and you're good.

But if you add dedicated GPU into as well, then power consumption will rise, and so does graphical performance.

but is the inbuilt GPU any good? eg my mobo has inbuilt graphics but it is rubbish!

CPU review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-cpu-review
(I suggest you read that.)


If you despise inefficiency and want best efficiency as possible, then answer me this:
Why did you buy 80+ Gold Corsair RM1000x and not 80+ Titanium PSU? :unsure:
my defence is I plead ignorance!

because I had no idea about such things! it was for sale in the Maplins bankruptcy, and looked fancy, so I bought it. I like the modularity of the cables. where all the cables can be detached or attached, whereas my earlier PSU had a jungle of permanent cables!

I despise inefficiency, but I didnt know it was inefficient!

same reason I watch rubbish films, because I dont know they are rubbish until I have already paid my money and watched for 10 minutes!

In PSU world, 80+ Titanium is the highest efficiency there is.
80+ efficiency levels: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_Plus#Efficiency_level_certifications

Like my PSUs;
Skylake build - Seasonic PRIME 650 (80+ Titanium) [SSR-650TD]
Haswell build - Seasonic PRIME TX-650 (80+ Titanium) [SSR-650TR]
Old AMD build - Seasonic Focus PX-550 (80+ Platinum) [SSR-550PX]

My 80+ Titanium units, at 50% load, are 96% efficient, while your Corsair RMx 80+ Gold unit, at 50% load is only 92% efficient. That's 4% difference in wasted electricity as excess heat.
While 4% difference isn't much, but when you put that into watts and multiply it by elapsed time, difference is big.

I'll give you efficiency example, with 400W load on PSU and 3 different PSUs: 650W 80+ Titanium, 1000W 80+ Titanium, 1000W 80+ Gold. Also, keep in mind that PSU is most efficient when load on it is 50%-80% of it's max rated capacity.

For 650W unit, i'll take my own PSU, Seasonic PRIME 650 80+ Titanium [SSR-650TD] as an example (btw, the best PSU money could buy at the time of purchase, back in 2016, and still, one of the best, if not the best, PSU out there).

80+ Titanium PSU has efficiency rating of:
On 20% load - 94%
On 50% load - 96%
On 100% load - 94%

So, for e.g. 400W load on my 650W unit, would be 61.5%, meaning that the PSU is ~96% efficient, where only 4% of power is wasted as excess heat. Meaning that the PSU draws ~416W from the wall, gives 400W to components and wastes only ~16W as excess heat.

Same 400W load on 1kW PSU (e.g Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 80+ Titanium) would mean that the PSU is ~94% efficient, since load on PSU would be 40%. Meaning that PSU draws ~424W from the wall, gives 400W to components and wastes ~24W as excess heat.

But if you'd get 1kW 80+ Gold PSU, which is the norm today (e.g your Corsair RM1000x 80+ Gold), with efficiency ratings of:
On 20% load - 90%
On 50% load - 92%
On 100% load - 89%
Would mean that on 400W load, PSU is ~90% efficient since load on PSU would be 40%. In this case, PSU pulls ~440W from wall, gives 400W to components and wastes ~40W as excess heat.

So, would you rather use PSU that wastes:
#1 ~40W as excess heat on 400W output (80+ Gold Corsair RM1000x)
or
#2 ~24W as excess heat on 400W output (80+ Titanium Seasonic PRIME TX-1000)
or
#3 ~16W as excess heat on 400W output (80+ Titanium Seasonic PRIME TX-650)
?
I would like one which can supply all the power I need, without devices failing because not enough power to go round.

Amazon listing has product preview video included that shows unboxing as well. I looked at it and power cable seemed pretty long, maybe even more than the 60cm (2 feet). USB cable seemed shorter. Though, even if USB cable is too short for your use, there are USB extension cables out there (even i have one such USB extension cable that i bought but never used).

but is your USB extension cable USB3? I have longish USB cables but these are USB2!

chain of USB things need to be all USB3, otherwise I lose the speed benefits! a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, just one USB2 item in the chain and I lose the speed! eg a USB2 extender cable or hub or disk!


I do have Hoover's hoover as well. :D Though, it got obsolete and replaced with far superior Dyson V11 Absolute (cordless stick vacuum cleaner).
And now, i'm thinking to buy Dyson V15 or Dyson Outsize for several reasons. Though V11 Absolute is still going strong but it doesn't have features we'd need.
the Dyson stick ones are great, eg they are the best way to vacuum bedding such as mattresses, pillows, duvets, where you need to get the Dyson mattress adapter, which also works with the old era Dysons via a further adapter.

but for the upright ones, I found Vax is now better than Dyson. Basically Dyson made a big mistake by patenting his clever ideas. he didnt realise that patenting is a way to trick inventors into revealing their inventions. his patents eventually expired, and now Vax and Hoover and everyone else are using them for free, and making better products. The reason Coca Cola has dominated for so many decades, is they never patented their product, so nobody else knows how it is made!

Did look it up and yes, "debree" is "debris" as it is pronounced and not written. My bad.
that should be "my mistake" or "my error"! bad is an adjective, you cant own an adjective, only a noun, or a verb made into a noun eg "my running was slow". I never learnt grammar, but I know correct english from the sound.

Though, i do have spell check on, so that i don't mess up the words grammatical part but for some reason, the spell check didn't catch debree as being wrong word. Need to fix that and remove debree from spell check dictionary.
I NEVER use spellcheckers or grammar checkers, I know how to spell all words I use, and I figure out grammar by thinking over different usages from which I can deduce correct grammar. with spelling, I generally only make mistakes on double letters versus single, eg is it embarrassing or embarassing?

I dont always check. with grammar I sometimes break the grammar a bit for more expressive power.

one reason I dont use grammar checkers is they enforce american grammar which is slightly different and inferior to english grammar!


But when to nitpick about correct grammar ;), then;

"isnt" must be "isn't" or "is not".

"shouldnt" must be "shouldn't" or "should not".

I wasnt aware of these subtleties! and nobody ever pointed them out or taught them to me!

I think only americans are into these subtleties of apostrophes, people in Britain dont care about apostrophes!

at school we never got taught grammar for english! only for foreign languages eg I did german and russian.


but these are transcription conventions, they arent language usage!

one could change the transcription rules and eg ban the apostophe! because you can usually work out where apostrophes are from the meaning and context. and with spoken english you cant see the apostrophes!

eg "the schools janitors cars colour was green", can only be "the school's janitor's car's colour was green", whereas "the schools janitors cars colours were green" must be "the schools' janitors' cars' colours were green" because schools usually just have one janitor!

with spoken german, "sie" = they and "Sie" = polite you singular or plural, are identical, they only differ in written speech. this leads to a confusion that in Germany, anything which "they" can do, "you" can do! where rules meant to be for "you" are misunderstood to be "they". its a true ambiguity!


And there are more words in your reply where you've left out the apostrophe.
Two can play at this game. ;)


Though, one of my long replies takes me 3-4 hours to type since i also research subjects when replying. And since i'm not a machine, errors in grammar can happen. Or in other words: "To err is human.". :)
correct usage is "I" not "i"!

ie "since I also research" and "since I'm not a machine"!

some germans use "i" instead of "I". but as earlier, this is a transcription convention so isnt a proper problem, and sometimes I just put everything lower case, but NEVER "I" because that is the most important word in the language, the first person singular. eg often I might put monday, january, etc, and eg america, apple, etc Also I generally start all my sentences with lower case, mainly because it is too much effort to use the caps lock or shift button! it also looks better all in lower case. I am only strict with "I" and maybe people's names. capital letters were mainly a roman invention for stone inscriptions, that these were easier to chisel. there is no genuine meaning to capitals!

They can help mark out where each sentence begins. in german, all nouns begin with a capital letter, where they have decided on a different transcription rule! capitals slow down writing on a computer as you have to press shift or caps lock, and wastes time with smartphones!


technically words like monday and june probably all should start with a capital, but its a bit pedantic and pointless as they are borderline words. sometimes I will write them with an initial capital, sometimes not.

in the 1950s they produced entire books of rules, like you must say "you and I" and not "I and you" or "me and you", but many of these rules are arbitrary.

"I and you" is perfectly correct. because "A and B" is the same as "B and A", so "you and I" is the same as "I and you".

"me and you were at the house" is wrong, because you wouldnt say "me was at the house",

but would say "I was at the house", so "I and you were at the house" is correct, even though in the 1950s they didnt approve of that, it withstands substitution scrutiny.

and "he gave me and you some advice" (A) is CORRECT, because you'd say "he gave me some advice" and "he gave you some advice", so you can combine them to get (A).

this is demerging scrutiny, when you have eg "and" or "or", to see if it is correct, you can demerge the 2 items, and that ought to remain correct. with "and" the verb transforms to plural, whereas with "or" it remains the same. "the cat and the dog stand in the rain": 2 animals stand in the rain, versus "the cat stands in the rain" and "the cat or the dog stands in the rain": only one animal stands in the rain.

many english people say "I was sat there in the rain", but this is incorrect, because if you substitute sat with ate, you dont say "I was ate there in the rain" but you say "I was eating there in the rain", so the correct usage is "I was sitting there in the rain".

grammar just comes from scrutinising usages and discerning rules,

usage precedes grammar, usage isnt derived from grammar!
 

Aeacus

Titan
Ambassador
why do the police + ambulances + military use it?
Several reasons:
1. Cheaper than painting the whole car.
2. Faster than painting the car.
3. After car has had it service live, easier to remove the vinyl (e.g police markings/lettering), so that the car can be sold on public auction to citizens.

we dont need the EU
Based on what i've seen, life in England post-Brexit has gone worse. And future outlook doesn't look that bright either.

E.g this video (1 year old):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2lWmgEK1Y


and Estonia ought to join NATO if not already in it.
We are already part of NATO (joined in 2004). Latest to join was Finland (our Northern neighbor) in 2023 and Sweden is about to join as well (if Turkey finally agrees with it).

anyway, Germany lost the war, yet is now in charge with France assisting, when they are only free because of Britain and Russia! we cannot continue with this arrangement, we have been cheated.
I wonder, cheated how?

what happens when the estonian guy listens to the czech guy talk? they need a czech to estonian translator! then the polish guy talks, they now need a polish to estonian translator, it is crazy!
Many Estonians know English well and for our politicians, there is 0 problem in talking in English. Some older aged politicians even know how to speak Russian. So, our ambassadors in EU are talking in English, without the need of translator.

but with the euro, Greece and Italy have gone bankrupt.
When it comes to Greece, it was not the fault of adapting Euro (which they did on their own free will and weren't forced into), but instead because Greece lied about their financial reports to be eligible for converting to Euro, thus opening up more ways to borrow even more money, without ability to pay back the loans. That, and also corruption in government + spending the borrowed money by doing little, if any, to ensure better grounds of paying back the borrowed money.
Hell, EU had to bail out Greece 3x times so that those blokes there won't default on their loans.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqnFlPNR59o


And as far as Italy, it's their bureaucracy and poor choice in government spending that brings the nation down.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpC9pz7eQhQ


So, in both cases, it is not because of Euro, which is just currency. Instead, it's about poor government those countries have.

because on divorce the woman gets half the man's wealth!
That depends on the law of the country where the marriage is registered. E.g here in Estonia, before marriage, all couples who are about to get married, can choose one of possible three options of marital property agreement (aka prenup). Which are:
Jointness of property, set-off of assets increment and separateness of property

If the prospective spouses do not select a property regime on the marriage application or enter into a marital property agreement, jointness of property is the default regime applied. Jointness of property means that assets that are acquired during the marriage are jointly owned by the spouses. If one of the spouses wants to make a transaction with the matrimonial assets, they must have the consent of the other spouse. In the event of a divorce, the matrimonial assets will be divided equally.

Set-off of assets increment means that assets acquired during the marriage are the sole property of each party. Assets belong to the spouse under whose name they were acquired. As an exception, the consent of the spouse who is not the owner is needed to make transactions with a dwelling used as a family home.

The most independent property regime is separateness of property, where property belongs to the spouse in whose name it is and who acquired it during the marriage.

I did instal a USB3 card, but I dont know if that will mitigate this problem?
It might.

there are different revisions also as you pointed out about Gigabyte in general, did you verify the revision numbers with your research?
All revisions of your MoBo use the same chipset. Diff between the revisions is mostly by the connector ports MoBo has.
Revision comparison: https://www.gigabyte.com/Comparison/Consumer/Result/2?pids=3451,3644,3726,3922

only use that notation when talking to estonians, germans, etc, not here!

in english you can say one two two five six point five seven,
OR
twelve thousand two hundred and fifty six point five seven.

NEVER comma five seven!

NOT ALLOWED!

VERBOTEN!
This is getting a bit rude actually. :unsure: Sure, you can suggest/advise something, but you can not demand it.

* Do not harass, attack, or demean other forum users, including official staff. Disagreement is welcome, but different points of view can coexist without anyone resorting to personal attacks.
:non:

speed limits also are all in mph, but this is handy because gear = mph/10, eg you need 2nd gear at 20mph, 3rd gear at 30mph, 4th gear at 40mph, 5th gear at 50mph! on flat land that is, on an upward hill you need a lower gear. I think the gearing system was designed around mph!
But this only works if you have 5-gear car. But how about when you have 4-gear car, 6-gear car or even 7-gear car? (E.g the car i had to use on my official driving test, to get my driving license, had 7 gears forward and 1 gear back. Can't remember the make and model of it, it was years ago.)
And when you have automatic gear box, this conversion rate doesn't matter at all.

I have no idea what these coolers are, nor how to use them! what I would like is the quietest one!

is the Be Quiet! one quietest?
Quietest? Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 in low noise mode.

cEdWwk28vC5GmY5jGJ4zDJ.png


Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...rk-rock-elite-review-kings-of-quiet-cooling/2
but is the inbuilt GPU any good? eg my mobo has inbuilt graphics but it is rubbish!
For a iGPU inside the CPU, it is actually pretty good. The best iGPU to this date. Of course, iGPU isn't intended to be gamed on since it isn't as powerful as dedicated GPU.

Specs: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-graphics-128sp.c3993

Comparison against iGPU inside my CPU (Intel HD 530);
link: https://www.topcpu.net/en/gpu-c/hd-graphics-530-vs-radeon-graphics-128sp

my defence is I plead ignorance!

because I had no idea about such things! it was for sale in the Maplins bankruptcy, and looked fancy, so I bought it.
I'm sure that you realize that PSU powers everything, right? And thus, PSU is the most important component inside the PC.
With this, it makes me wonder, why didn't you research about PSUs beforehand and bought the PSU based on it's looks? :unsure:

Of course, you lucked out and actually bought good quality unit. But since you bought it used, there is no telling if that PSU even works within ATX PSU standard. And you don't get any warranty with it either. Since if you would've bought it brand new, you would've gotten 10 years of warranty with your Corsair RMx unit. Efficiency wise, there are better PSUs. Same goes for build quality wise, there are great quality units out there, like my Seasonic PRIME units, which, among other things, come with 12 years of warranty as well.

E.g reputable review of my PSU: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-650w-psu,4690.html

So, if you're interested about learning more about PSUs (it's a good idea since PSU is the most important component inside the PC), you can start here,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...pply-discussion-thread-toms-hardware.3212332/
Initial post will suffice.

I would like one which can supply all the power I need, without devices failing because not enough power to go round.
Since you bought used RM1000x, i have my reservations about it. I'd be far more comfortable having brand new, good/great quality PSU with valid warranty, than already used PSU with 0 knowledge how much it was abused and no warranty.

but is your USB extension cable USB3? I have longish USB cables but these are USB2!
Mine is USB 2.0 as well. But there are USB 3.0 extension cables as well, e.g:
amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extension-2M-2pack-Extender-Compatible-Keyboard/dp/B0B9MKZK7R
one could change the transcription rules and eg ban the apostophe!
Can't ban the apostrophe since it would mess up the language and change the meaning of words.

E.g: "I'll be ill soon". Loose the apostrophe and you'll get: "Ill be ill soon". Completely different meaning.

correct usage is "I" not "i"!
That i do know, but i use lower case "I" to differentiate it between lower case "L".
E.g, can you tell a diff between: "IlI" or "lIl"? (Both are completely different words.)
 

Richard1234

Distinguished
Aug 18, 2016
277
5
18,685
Several reasons:
1. Cheaper than painting the whole car.
2. Faster than painting the car.
3. After car has had it service live, easier to remove the vinyl (e.g police markings/lettering), so that the car can be sold on public auction to citizens.

ok, wasnt aware of any of those reasons, I hadn't heard of the idea before you mentioned it!

I am not aware of car repainting, I just keep my car in the manufactured colour, because I had some worn out hub cap renovated, and it was unsatisfactory. but the vinyl is maybe more flawless!

Based on what i've seen, life in England post-Brexit has gone worse. And future outlook doesn't look that bright either.

E.g this video (1 year old):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2lWmgEK1Y
that's all propaganda! I live here, I dont need some politically dubious newspaper such as the FT to tell me about here!

the message you get depends on the newspaper you read, if you want to read pro Brexit things, I suggest you look at the Daily Mail, Daily Express, maybe The Sun.

the video starts with that minibudget, but that had nothing to do with Brexit but was just a bad politician Truss, who soon resigned, and the economy has greatly improved since then!

eg with that minibudget the pound plunged to maybe $1.07, literally with every word of that speech of her chancellor, the pound plunged further! almost becoming less valuable than the dollar, but if you look today, the pound is right now $1.27739, a NINETEEN percent improvement in just over a year!

you think that is bad!

that bit of the vid is a smear campaign, where they are trying to smear Brexit with a very brief government which everyone agrees was terrible.

smearing is where you deliberately misattribute one thing to another,

I only watched the start of the vid, because we get this kind of propaganda all the time, where they reel in experts, who all push the same conclusion!

you need to study the actual data, eg the dollar/pound graph, and other data, eg CPI inflation has been steadily dropping from 10.5 to 3.9 over the last year:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi

and you say things are getting worse! nope, they are getting better or not getting worse. graph after graph shows this.

house prices peaked in March, and are predicted to fall over 2024:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index


all the newspapers push an agenda. The Telegraph which is normall pro conservative, was pushing a very hostile agenda to the conservative government, and eventually went bankrupt! the new owners are more friendly to the government!

but Brexit was a major structural change, and there will be "growing pains", and then the covid shutdown added major jeopardy to ALL countries. Germany has the further problem of the russian blockade on oil.

the plain truth is that before the EU up to WW2, britain was the most powerful country on earth, with no affiliation at all with mainland europe! But on signing up it has descended to 5th or 6th, India is gradually overtaking the UK and is predicted to be the 3rd largest by 2030, ie will overtake Germany and Japan eventually. by landing on the south pole of the moon, India has now overtaken western europe and Japan technologically. Not yet overtaken Russia, China or the US. But the indian economy is bigger than Russia, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, ie all the old colonial powers except Britain which it is approx equal to currently.


if you look at the euro/pound, it is pretty much where it has been since nov 2016, if you look at the 10 year graph:

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=GBP&view=10Y

the really big problem is the covid shutdown, not Brexit! Germany also has greatly deteriorated for a futher reason: Russia's invasion of Ukraine, where Russia has cut off the oil!

Britain has its own oil and natural gas from the North Sea, Germany's big problem is it doesnt have much coastline, and doesnt have oil! Britain has a huge coastline and is more difficult to blockade, the germans were blockading a bit in WW2.

Germany's biggest problem is oil, second biggest is covid, Brexit is way down the list.

Britain was the most powerful country on earth before the EU existed, now it is 5th most powerful, with Japan and Germany above it, because of appeasement policies to Germany and Japan by the US.


We are already part of NATO (joined in 2004). Latest to join was Finland (our Northern neighbor) in 2023 and Sweden is about to join as well (if Turkey finally agrees with it).


I wonder, cheated how?

cheated because without Britain, Germany would have wiped out most of the people of europe, with their lebensraum and germanisation agendas, and Britain + Russia defeated Germany, and Britain with the US set up the EU. But the EU shuns Britain. Also in the UK the big politics is with Westminster not with the EU, most people didnt even know who their EU representative was! I have no idea who our euro MP was!

also UKIP (or its successor the Brexit party) became the biggest party in the EU parliament before Britain left!

Basically we created the EU in order to appease Germany and then have been pushed around by the EU, they are still pushing us around with the EU court of human rights, which directly has opposed the UK government AFTER Brexit.

"cheated" is a colloquial expression, you are using your dictionary, I use the ambient usage!

cheated colloquially means you got a bad deal.

eg if you paid $1000 for a 1Gig hard drive, although legal, in Britain we will say you have been cheated!

eg with one world cup, I think Lampard's goal was disallowed or something, and graffiti appeared locally saying "Lampard was robbed"!

british english is full of metaphors!


Many Estonians know English well and for our politicians, there is 0 problem in talking in English. Some older aged politicians even know how to speak Russian. So, our ambassadors in EU are talking in English, without the need of translator.
"older politicians" not "older aged politicians"! and "without the need of a translator", english has rules for articles, you can drop the article if it is plural, "without the need of translators".

"our ambassadors in THE EU",

maybe your ambassadors, but politicians have to use their own language for legal reasons, because if they make a mistake they will be liable!

I never make such mistakes when I speak, but I sometimes make them when writing, because my hands write something different from what I think! And its only if I check and double check the text that I can correct such errors, so I am sure you will find some, but I NEVER make these errors talking!

in the UK, lawyers will not notarise a german legal document! they can only notarise a document if they understand it. To notarise a german document, you need a certified translation to english, and the lawyer will notarise only the translation, and you need a further document, I think called a codicil to make it all legal. or you can trek to the german embassy in London, and that is legally part of Germany so can be notarised by them, but you have to pay something like 500 quid!

this is why when say Gorbachev met Reagan, Gorbachev would bring his own translator and only speak russian, and Reagan would bring his translator and only speak english.

its for legal reasons, only a certified translator can make political statements in another language. the EU politicians have to listen via a certified translator. hence they all listen via headphones unless its their own country.

politicians have to use their own language, even if totally fluent in the other. that way mistranslations are the fault of the translators.

diplomacy is different, as they can communicate "without prejudice", ie without legal consequences, and eg find what the other side will accept, before officially making an offer etc. they are "back channels".


When it comes to Greece, it was not the fault of adapting Euro (which they did on their own free will and weren't forced into),

but instead because Greece lied about their financial reports to be eligible for converting to Euro, thus opening up more ways to borrow even more money, without ability to pay back the loans. That, and also corruption in government + spending the borrowed money by doing little, if any, to ensure better grounds of paying back the borrowed money.
but that is incompetence by the EU to believe an applicants version of events!

in fact the EU looked the other way admitting Greece.

its like a bank shouldnt lend to someone who cannot repay the loan. some do, but that is regarded as unethical and possibly incompetent.

if one of your friends asks if he can borrow 10000 euros from you, and assures you he can repay, will you just lend to him?

I would say: go to a bank. but if I did lend, I'd ask to see his bank statements online whilst I was observing so he cant fake them, etc.



Hell, EU had to bail out Greece 3x times so that those blokes there won't default on their loans.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqnFlPNR59o


And as far as Italy, it's their bureaucracy and poor choice in government spending that brings the nation down.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpC9pz7eQhQ


So, in both cases, it is not because of Euro, which is just currency. Instead, it's about poor government those countries have.

wrong! Italy went bankrupt entirely because of the euro! for an expert explanation you need to read the book "how the euro dies" by Nickolai Hubble, where he was working in Brussels with such things, so has seen directly the problem, you can get this book on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364537081359

its because the eurozone has a system called Target 2 balances, best explained in context for Italy.

basically trade between Germany and Italy is mostly one way, as will also happen with Estonia. where Germany continually exports to Italy, but very little flows the other way. Net effect is there is a net flow of euros from Italy to Germany, where Italy runs out of euros. the target 2 balances system, returns the surplus euros back to Italy, but as loans from Germany to Italy. what then happened is Italy descended into ever more debt, and eventually became bankrupt!

ENTIRELY BECAUSE OF THE EURO!

but you are using unreliable sources about the euro. there is major propaganda for agendas such as the euro and EU. The simplest option for Estonia is to join the euro, but this isnt without risk! Germany isnt father christmas! The germans want their money back from Italy and Greece.

whereas because Britain kept its own currency, there also is a net flow of exports from Germany, but the accumulation of sterling in Germany isnt corrected by a loan. but what happens is sterling then drops in value, and now german goods become too expensive. and at some point british goods become competitively priced for Germany. Also the germans dont know what to do with the accumulated british money, and may visit as tourists because prices so cheap, or invest the money back.

you are being brainwashed about the euro and eurozone because they want you to sign up!

they arent telling you about Italy and Greece, or misleading you about them!

That depends on the law of the country where the marriage is registered. E.g here in Estonia, before marriage, all couples who are about to get married, can choose one of possible three options of marital property agreement (aka prenup). Which are:



It might.


All revisions of your MoBo use the same chipset. Diff between the revisions is mostly by the connector ports MoBo has.
Revision comparison: https://www.gigabyte.com/Comparison/Consumer/Result/2?pids=3451,3644,3726,3922


This is getting a bit rude actually. :unsure: Sure, you can suggest/advise something, but you can not demand it.

I think you misunderstood! I didnt mean that literally, but it is just british internet-speak, where you express an idea in exaggerated way using capital letters! The use of capital letters was to hint that it is comedic and not literal!

eg I might say "DO NOT BUY [deleted firm name], THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE SUCKS!", I am not ordering you to do that if I said that! I am just expressing a strong opinion by putting it in the imperative form and capitals!

the problem is text doesnt have a tone of voice, eg I would say such things with a theatric comedic stern voice,

maybe I should have put some smileys!

if you want it in non exaggerated form, what I am saying is you could get badly misunderstood if you use the estonian format here, if you say $10.000 for a server CPU, people will realise you mean 10000 from the context, that a server grade cpu wont cost $10. and with prices, normally you just get 2 digits after ".".

but if you are talking about other stuff, people will understand 10.000 to mean 10, and 10,000 to mean 10000. the language extends to the numerical notation!

they probably didnt teach you this in your english lessons! also in our german lessons they didnt teach us this, I only learnt this directly in recent years when communicating with german accountants, where they were giving crazy numbers!

eg if you said $123.456 million, people will understand that to mean $123456000, so the notation really is wrong. because otherwise we are left to guess what is being said, in a legal document if you said $1.234 million for this supertanker, you would be contractually bound to accept $1234000 if the jursidiction was Britain or the US.

some investment sites use fractional money, eg you might have £123.456, in order to deal with interest rates on small amounts of money eg if you invested £20 at 8%, in a month that is 13.3 pence.

US brokers Schwab use fractional shares.

whereas if you said $123,456 million that will be understood to mean $123456000000.

where the 2 notations produce opposite results!


if you dont believe me, look at these URLs:


https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

that 2nd url has incorrect info on the populations, India overtook China I think in April and is now the most populous country on earth according to the UN and the lead over china will only increase.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-china-to-become-worlds-most-populous-country

so this is very strong advice, but is not an order! I dont have the authority to tell you what to do!

in my own case where I have to move money between Germany and England, this is a major danger!

:non:

I agree with those rules, but have gotten misunderstood! maybe I should edit that post later, running out of time just now!

But this only works if you have 5-gear car. But how about when you have 4-gear car, 6-gear car or even 7-gear car? (E.g the car i had to use on my official driving test, to get my driving license, had 7 gears forward and 1 gear back. Can't remember the make and model of it, it was years ago.)
And when you have automatic gear box, this conversion rate doesn't matter at all.
it should work with all those, but I havent tested it out! 7th gear ought to be for 70mph,
with my car, 5th gear is for 50mph and upwards eg 70mph, 80mph etc.

if it is 4 gear, the 4th gear should be for 40mph upwards, eg 70mph.

I think heavier vehicles need more gears, eg I used a Nissan Xtrail once as an insurance replacement, and it had 6 gears, and I also noticed that braking took a longer distance than my Peugeot 308 SW. luckily I always keep a long distance from the next vehicle if possible. with a 4WD you need to keep double the distance versus ordinary cars. buses, lorries, 4WDs need to keep 4 seconds distance at all speeds in dry weather. cars just keep 2 seconds. 4 in rain, 20 in snow. lorries etc need 8 in rain, 40 in snow, these are huge distances at say 60mph: do the calculation!

because you are using kmh, you maybe arent aware of the precise synchronisation of gear number with mph/10.

you then know which gear to use from the mph dial, by dividing by 10, if you are going up a steep hill subtract 1 also, eg for 30mph uphill you need 30/10 - 1 = 2nd gear.

ok, that is a useful graphic, I will refer to that when purchasing, probably will start purchasing in the new year, in order to consolidate the decisions. Current plan is that cpu with 1MB L1 cache, and then maybe the BeQuiet! Dark Pro 5, and will get the USB3 hub you mentioned,

For a iGPU inside the CPU, it is actually pretty good. The best iGPU to this date. Of course, iGPU isn't intended to be gamed on since it isn't as powerful as dedicated GPU.

Specs: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-graphics-128sp.c3993

Comparison against iGPU inside my CPU (Intel HD 530);
link: https://www.topcpu.net/en/gpu-c/hd-graphics-530-vs-radeon-graphics-128sp


I'm sure that you realize that PSU powers everything, right? And thus, PSU is the most important component inside the PC.
With this, it makes me wonder, why didn't you research about PSUs beforehand and bought the PSU based on it's looks? :unsure:
its because of information overload, I can get 40 emails a day, most of which are junk, and even the good ones arrive at such a rate, that I struggle to process them properly, so I tend to not think about things properly any more, mainly because it is no longer viable to think about everything properly!

now that you have pointed this out, I agree 100%, but before you pointed it out, I wasnt even thinking about this! for me I was thinking about the PSU in the tower the way I might think of some cheese in the fridge! ie just as an object attached to some cables! as if it were an art installation!

eg you like the euro and the EU, and Germany is at the nerve centre of both, so why dont you focus your time on german forums! (I am being sarcastic!).


now up to maybe 2004, I got much less information, and I would think more carefully. but with PCs, there are so many options, that I get put off thinking properly. this is an example of the confusion factor: if you give people too many options, they get confused and then do nothing.

it really is work to properly think about things. In recent months, most of my time has been on investments.

Also, I just assumed that Maplins being a specialised electronics shop, would only sell quality things.

rather than research things, I often just go to a shop which I have found to only sell good things! and leave the quality filtering to the shop.

in this era, there are too many things. In one era as a kid, we lived overseas in a really remote place, and in those days I'd look at things really intensely, because much less stuff, and I'd notice things a bit like your observation about PSUs above!

Of course, you lucked out and actually bought good quality unit. But since you bought it used, there is no telling if that PSU even works within ATX PSU standard. And you don't get any warranty with it either. Since if you would've bought it brand new, you would've gotten 10 years of warranty with your Corsair RMx unit. Efficiency wise, there are better PSUs. Same goes for build quality wise, there are great quality units out there, like my Seasonic PRIME units, which, among other things, come with 12 years of warranty as well.
it wasnt used! it was brand new, with full warranty, factory sealed box.

the Maplins shop chain went bankrupt, and I bought it in their stock liquidation sale. in that scenario, you arent allowed refunds, and no customer support from the shop, but you have the full guarantee from the manufacturer, and all customer support has to be from the manufacturer. The normal rights of refund dont apply to insolvency sales in the UK. eg I think in the EU, if an item is unopened, I think you have the right to a refund within some time limit. But the Maplins bankruptcy was when we were still in the EU, and no refunds allowed!

E.g reputable review of my PSU: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-650w-psu,4690.html

So, if you're interested about learning more about PSUs (it's a good idea since PSU is the most important component inside the PC), you can start here,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...pply-discussion-thread-toms-hardware.3212332/
Initial post will suffice.


Since you bought used RM1000x, i have my reservations about it. I'd be far more comfortable having brand new, good/great quality PSU with valid warranty, than already used PSU with 0 knowledge how much it was abused and no warranty.


Mine is USB 2.0 as well. But there are USB 3.0 extension cables as well, e.g:
amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extension-2M-2pack-Extender-Compatible-Keyboard/dp/B0B9MKZK7R
ok, that one looks good, I have put that one on my shopping list. wont start purchasing till the main list is decided.


Can't ban the apostrophe since it would mess up the language and change the meaning of words.

E.g: "I'll be ill soon". Loose the apostrophe and you'll get: "Ill be ill soon". Completely different meaning.
not with my rules! with my rules, "I" must always be capitalised, and apostrophes are compulsory for possessives as that rule is universal and not a special case like "isnt", AND for where the pronunciation is different without the apostrophe.

"I'll" and "I'm" need the apostrophe because the pronunciation is different without it,

"im" is pronounced like "him", but "I'm" is pronounced like ai-m (not to be confused with "aim" which is pronounced ei-m!) and "ill" is pronounced like "hill", but "I'll" is pronounced ai-l, so the apostrophe is needed to modify the pronounciation.

I just enforce capital for "I", and apostrophe for possessives, eg "the teachers' guide's books' shelf's colour" and apostrophes where it changes the pronunciation eg "I'd", because "id" would be pronounced like "hid", but "I'd" is pronounced ai-d (and not like "aid" which is pronounced ei-d).

"he'll" needs an apostrophe, because "hell" is pronounced like "bell", but "he'll" is pronounced like "heel".

all other capitals are optional,

I agree "Ill" looks confusing, that is mainly a defect of the font, a better font is less confusing, you should send negative feeback to the font author! this is where I prefer fixed width fonts, as they can do 1 l and I more distinctly. maybe tomshardware should change their fonts?

I designed my own basic fonts and ensured all look different!

but "Ill" usually wont be at the start of a sentence, only for more archaic english such as "ill was the man", for that I personally would start the sentence with lower case, if using a confusing font! it is just "I" that I am uncompromising about using capitals on! all other cases I will accept without hesitating lower case.

That i do know, but i use lower case "I" to differentiate it between lower case "L".
E.g, can you tell a diff between: "IlI" or "lIl"? (Both are completely different words.)

yes, but I will insist on apostrophes in some cases, where with my rules, you will never have Ill,

with hasnt, isnt, wasnt, didnt, my argument is these have become proper words in their own right so dont need an apostrophe. because you wouldnt say eatn't, its only for some very specific auxiliary words where you have these forms.

and eg, I think wont is regarded as a proper word, where it is "will not" contracted even further.
also "shant" is less used these days, but is "shall not". I shant use that book. Google uses that with the apostrophe, but I propose we ditch the apostrophe! it is very tedious putting the apostrophe for all these, especially when using a smartphone.


as long as it is pronounced correctly without the apostrophe, you dont need the apostrophe, except for possessives where it does help decipher what was meant.

the rules are whatever we choose them to be! and with time the rules change.

eg in the old days, british english used "focussed", but nowadays the american form "focused" is being used more often.

note that where I said "did go" rather than "did went", "did go" is past tense of "do go", where "do" is a special metalevel verb which has as object an infinitive.

just the "do" changes to past tense.

similarly you have "am eating" where "am" is present tense, to convert to past tense, just the "am" converts, namely "was eating".

and then "have eaten" which converts to "had eaten".

germans often write "i", because the german version is "ich", so they are used to the word beginning with i, but with more correct english, I have never seen someone use "i". That rule for me is absolute.

but other rules you can break! eg some people I think say only one question per line of text, but that is an arbitrary rule. you can ask as many questions as you like per line.

the moment you use "i" it really stands out as wrong!

I specialised in computer languages on my degree, and developed my own language for my degree project, so I have an expert understanding of the general structure of languages! and plenty of experience of inventing new structures, and superceding old structures.

you can do anything at all you like with languages, eg you can do away with spelling rules!

eg William Shakespeare of all people is known to have spelt his name differently at different times! in those days probably the spelling wasnt yet fixed.

fixed spelling does make Google search easier, and english mostly not modifying words makes word search with english easier than with say russian where the endings change

but you need a well defined rationale for what you do otherwise you will get chaos. eg what liberties you allow and disallow. if you never allow rules to be changed, a language can get entangled in its own rules and become unusably complicated!


with the arabic language, they in fact have 3 forms for each letter: one form if its at the start of a word, a second form for if its in the middle, and a 3rd form if its the last letter!

some languages will just have 1 form for each letter. and eg with MSDOS, all filenames were entirely capital letters!

with Unix, all system commands are entirely lower case, I was told this is because upper case is SHOUTING!
 
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Aeacus

Titan
Ambassador
the message you get depends on the newspaper you read, if you want to read pro Brexit things, I suggest you look at the Daily Mail, Daily Express, maybe The Sun.
I usually like to get my info from 3rd party sources, who are neutral and doesn't align to either side of the political spectrum.

E.g this video:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj_qvzw-Z8U


and you say things are getting worse! nope, they are getting better or not getting worse. graph after graph shows this.
What one or another graph shows isn't quite accurate of what everyday life is on the spot.

Let's take it simple: international trade, namely import/export.

Member state within EU, has little paperwork in terms of import/export to another EU member state, since EU is one big market. Now, those states outside of EU, have to go through full customs checks when trying to import into EU. That's a lot more paperwork + far longer waiting time. I don't see how more bureaucracy and longer waiting times at border are beneficial.

At today's world, no country can survive without import/export. Closest example of a country who does little, if any international trade would be North Korea and you can look for yourself how well people are there. Heck, even North Korea does international trade with China and Russia.

Another aspect that the Brexit has severely worsen is the seasonal labor. Used to be, with open borders, that when harvest begun, many people traveled to England to work as seasonal workers, helping to harvest food produce. With England now outside EU and free/easy border crossing gone, any travelers must go through full checks at border, extending the border crossing time. Due to this, many such seasonal laborers won't see the point to travel to England anymore, to help out during harvest. And the ones who suffer the most, are farmers in England, since they don't have the workforce anymore to help with the harvest. That in turn means less food harvested and eventually, less food on your table as well. Or am i wrong?

Short video about workforce for farmers in port-Brexit England:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLhkny36AOE

but that is incompetence by the EU to believe an applicants version of events!
EU is built on mutual trust and respect. This is how for example, open borders can be between countries, where one doesn't need their passport to be checked when traveling from one country to another.

Now, in case of Greece, they knew very well in advance the requirements before being able to switch to Euro. But since they did not meet the requirements, they decided to lie about their financial situation, so that they can convert to Euro and get their hands on many easy loans Euro carriers have. And Greece took the money, while knowing very well that they are unable to pay pack the said loans.

Falsifying documents on individual level is quite common, but on government level? Well, maybe if entire government of a country is corrupt and they are thieves.

It is the Greece itself that caused the issues they are having.
Ideally, every country should have annual budget surplus, where annual income for a country is higher than annual expenses. Some countries can do it. Many countries operate at break-even point, with same annual income/expense. But then there are counties who have high annual budget deficit, by spending far more than what the income is. Greece is one such country.
And when country has budget deficit, it needs to take loans from another country, so that they can reach the break-even point. But every loan comes with an interest rate + the loan itself has to payed back as well. So, when government isn't willing to fix the budget deficit issue, the country will go bankrupt. And the one to blame, is Greece government.

the target 2 balances system, returns the surplus euros back to Italy, but as loans from Germany to Italy. what then happened is Italy descended into ever more debt, and eventually became bankrupt!
I did not find any info that money returned by Target2 is considered as loan with interest rate and eventual payback requirement.
Still, when to look at EU countries Target2 balance since 2001;

Target2%25_20graph%25_20-%25_20%25_20ecb%25_20data%281%29.jpg


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARGET2

Besides Italy, Spain also has high negative balance. Indicating that Spain too "runs out of Euros". But Spain didn't go bust as Italy did. So, how come? What Spain did differently?
It came down to the government of the said country and willingness to do it better (get over the crisis), namely:
Following the financial crisis of 2007–2008, the Spanish economy plunged into recession, entering a cycle of negative macroeconomic performance. Compared to the EU's and US's average, the Spanish economy entered recession later (the economy was still growing by 2008) but it stayed there longer. The economic boom of the 2000s was reversed, leaving over a quarter of Spain's workforce unemployed by 2012. In aggregated terms, the Spanish GDP contracted by almost 9% during the 2009–2013 period. The economic situation started improving by 2013–2014. By then, Spain managed to reverse the record trade deficit which had built up during the boom years. It attained a trade surplus in 2013, after three decades of running a trade deficit. The surplus kept strengthening during 2014 and 2015.
In 2015, the Spanish GDP grew by 3.2%: a rate not seen since 2007 and the last year before the world financial crisis struck. This growth rate was the highest among the larger EU economies that year. In just two years (2014–2015), the Spanish economy recovered 85% of the GDP lost during the 2009–2013 recession. This success led some international analysts to refer to Spain's current recovery as "the showcase for structural reform efforts". Strong GDP growth was registered also in 2016, with the country growing twice as fast as the eurozone average. In this regard, the Spanish economy was forecast to remain the best-performing major economy in the eurozone in 2017. Spain's unemployment rate fell substantially from 2013 to 2017.
In 2012, the Spanish government officially requested a credit from the European Stability Mechanism to restructure its banking sector in the face of a financial crisis. The ESM approved up to €100 billion in assistance although, in the end, Spain only drew €41.3 billion. The ESM programme for Spain ended with the full repayment of the credit drawn 18 months later.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Spain

So, it is not because of the "Euro" or because of "Target2". If the government of the county is a poor one (Greece, Italy, Venezuela, Russia), without willing to combat and solve the issues, then entire country will go downhill. But if the government is strong and is actively combating the issues (Spain, Norway), then country will flourish.

You can look it at individual level as well;
For example;
Let's say you have a high standard of living, with many luxuries of modern world and you have annual budget surplus. But something changes with income/expense ratio, where you are facing at annual budget deficit. With this you have two options:
#1 Take out a loan to cover budget deficit to get back into break-even point. Now, when income/expense ratio doesn't improve and you're still in budget deficit, you'll take another loan to maintain your high standard of living while also getting back to break-even point. To pay for old loans, you'll take new loans. But you'll obtain debt. And the longer this cycle goes on - the more debt you'll collect, where eventually, end result is bankruptcy (since no-one is going to loan you money anymore).
OR
#2 With budget surplus you've collected (if you did save it for rainy days), you can get by for a while. While actively looking into ways of either increasing income or reducing expenses, including lowering the standard of living, to get into break-even point. And all that without ever taking a loan. Maybe sell your luxury yacht or summer vacation home, to reduce expenses while in the same time increasing income.

Option #1 is poor one, since while you can maintain your luxurious life during budget deficit due to loans, it will come crashing down at some point. Option #2 is the smart one, since while you need to lower your high standard of living, once you get through it, you can buy back your luxurious yacht and summer vacation home.

I think you misunderstood! I didnt mean that literally, but it is just british internet-speak, where you express an idea in exaggerated way using capital letters! The use of capital letters was to hint that it is comedic and not literal!
Writing in capital letters on internet is considered as shouting (angrily) and it is rude. Since written text doesn't show the tone of the voice or other person's expressions, for that, we have emoticons to use. Hence why i've used emoticons to get the tone of voice or expressions across.

I think heavier vehicles need more gears
Not necessarily. Passenger cars usually can do with as little as 4 forward gears, but can have 5, 6 or even 7 forward gears. E.g the 7 forward gear car i did my driving exam, was a small city car, with maybe 1T or 0.8T in weight. My Subaru, which is AWD and weighs 2T (2015Kg to be exact) has 4-speed automatic transmission in it.

But when vehicle weight goes high, 10T and more, you'll need plenty of gears for the torque to get moving. Then again, it depends on the drive train and not solely on transmission. E.g in a full sized semi truck (known as lorries in UK), can either have up to 18 forward gears manual transmission, or 6-speed automatic transmission.
Then, there are transmissions out there that doesn't have any gears at all, like CVT. E.g used by Subaru in 2010-2018 models and known as Lineatronic. Kinda neat, whereby there isn't gear shifting jerk, but it has it's own issues.

eg you like the euro and the EU, and Germany is at the nerve centre of both, so why dont you focus your time on german forums! (I am being sarcastic!).
I'm overall content when it comes to Euro/EU. I've seen it helping Estonia with different programs but when it comes to politics, i have 0 political views. Never voted on any of the elections. Also, i'd rather spend my time on something i like, than political lobbying, that i know nothing about and frankly, doesn't care about either.

and leave the quality filtering to the shop.
Bad idea. For shops, their bottom line is to make profit (sell their stock), rather than spending extra effort to sell you good product, compared to poor one.

it wasnt used! it was brand new, with full warranty, factory sealed box.

the Maplins shop chain went bankrupt, and I bought it in their stock liquidation sale. in that scenario, you arent allowed refunds, and no customer support from the shop, but you have the full guarantee from the manufacturer, and all customer support has to be from the manufacturer. The normal rights of refund dont apply to insolvency sales in the UK. eg I think in the EU, if an item is unopened, I think you have the right to a refund within some time limit. But the Maplins bankruptcy was when we were still in the EU, and no refunds allowed!
Bankruptcy liquidation sales (auctions) usually sell off already used items, so i thought you got used PSU. But since it was brand new in a sealed box, then there's nothing to worry about. Corsair RMx is good quality PSU and other than getting better efficiency PSU, there is little reason to replace it.

For warranty/RMA claims, just contact Corsair directly. You need to show the PSU purchase invoice and you're good. Corsair customer support is polite and professional. I've dealt with them on many occasions since i have plenty of Corsair brand hardware (PC cases, computer peripherals).

As of the right to refund, we have it 14 days since purchase date, given the item is unused and in original packaging. Also, the refund is "no questions asked". If i return a product within those 14 days and it is unused, in the original packaging, i don't have to give a reason as of why i want a refund. Me just saying i want a refund is enough.

it is very tedious putting the apostrophe for all these, especially when using a smartphone.
So, this is the real reason for you? Laziness? Inconvenience? Interesting... :unsure:

Especially interesting to hear it from someone, who earlier said the following:
even now, most people dont reply to emails, or just give 1 liner replies. so even emails now arent really used by most people.

majority of people dont give inline replies to emails, they'll just comment at the start of the email.

to the extent I have to comment only at the start, as most people cannot cope with inline replies, thankfully Tom's hardware does inline replies!
So, most people won't reply with more than 1 line and/or do inline replies, due to inconvenience? But you don't use apostrophe due to inconvenience? Interesting... :rolleyes: :crazy:

Changing the written text based on someone's inconvenience is one of the worst reasons why to do it. If let run rampant, we'll get this:

Shahar%2Band%2BPola.PNG


837265.png


Can you understand what is written on those examples? :unsure:
And should the written language change into this, for the sole reason of it being convenient? :rolleyes:
 

Richard1234

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OK...this has gone FAR too deep into politics.

That stops here.

Anything more than discussion of the original PC, will either just be deleted, and/or the thread closed.

Are we all in agreement here?
yes, in agreement! I will study

Aeacus's

advice on the original topic, and then keep to that. So far I have made provisional decisions on the CPU, USB3 hub, USB3 cable, PSU that he advised, all of which is quality advice that I couldnt have gotten to by my own efforts. Need to scrutinise what he said on the tower case, and about which mobos are compatible with that CPU with the 1MB L1 cache.
 

Richard1234

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studying the info, with some miscellaneous questions as I process the info,


I have never seen such a drive before, I have a few solid state drives connected to the current mobo via sata sockets on the mobo,
eg Samsung 870 EVO

what's the argument for the above PCIe one versus what I currently use?

are there compelling reasons for or against the one or the other?
 

USAFRet

Titan
Moderator
studying the info, with some miscellaneous questions as I process the info,



I have never seen such a drive before, I have a few solid state drives connected to the current mobo via sata sockets on the mobo,
eg Samsung 870 EVO

what's the argument for the above PCIe one versus what I currently use?

are there compelling reasons for or against the one or the other?
The 870 EVO is a SATA III drive.
The 980 Pro is a PCIe 4.0 drive.

Completely different protocols.
Faster, mostly seen in benchmarks. And different connection type.

Given a compatible motherboard, and mostly price parity per GB...there is little reason to not get something like the 980 Pro.
 

Aeacus

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Ambassador
what's the argument for the above PCIe one versus what I currently use?
USAFRet explained few but i'll go more in-depth about the differences;

2.5" SATA SSD is in relative good size, while M.2 drive is tiny.
Just compare the size of M.2 drive to the CMOS battery as seen here:

QPGPfY9.jpg


Btw, image is of my Skylake build, when i bought my 1st M.2 SSD (Samsung 960 Evo 500GB).

2.5" SATA SSD needs two cable connections: SATA power (from PSU) and SATA data (to MoBo).
M.2 drive doesn't need any cables since it slots directly onto M.2 port on MoBo.

There are two forms of M.2 drives: AHCI and NVMe. AHCI drives use SATA protocol and aren't any faster than regular 2.5" SATA SSDs. Not much point getting M.2 AHCI drive. Now, NVMe uses PCI-E protocol and compared to SATA protocol, is considerably faster.
Comparison: https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compa...ng-980-Pro-NVMe-PCIe-M2-2TB/m972228vsm1454302

Speed difference;
3.5" HDD is ~3x slower than 2.5" SSD.
2.5" SSD is ~7x slower than M.2 NVMe PCI-E 4.0 SSD.

Real life speed difference;
When you have HDD as OS drive, PC can take minutes to boot.
When you have 2.5" SSD as OS drive, PC takes less than a minute to boot.
When you have M.2 NVMe SSD as OS drive, PC takes less than a minute to boot, while is few seconds faster than 2.5" SSD.

But where M.2 NVMe drive excels, is when moving around large files.
For example; moving 40GB file.
WD Blue 1TB HDD has write speed of ~140 MB/s
870 Evo has write speed of ~400 MB/s
980 Pro has write speed of ~2800 MB/s

So, to write a 40GB file onto each drive, it takes:
~5 minutes for HDD (at 140 MB/s)
~2 minutes for SSD (at 400 MB/s)
~15 seconds for M.2 NVMe (at 2800 MB/s)
 

Richard1234

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Only PCI-E 5.0 devices currently out, are M.2 NVMe SSDs. GPUs, even the latest ones, operate at PCI-E 4.0 protocol.

As of current moment, i don't know which PCI-E protocol the upcoming Nvidia RTX 50-series and AMD RDNA4 series are going to use. If release dates aren't pushed back, then AMD RDNA 4 is expected to launch in Q3 2024 and Nvidia RTX 50-series in Q4 2024.


On micro-ATX, ATX and E-ATX MoBo, the spacing of PCI-E slots is same, but to combat the issue of many GPUs being dual- , triple- or even quad-slot, MoBo manufacturers have put PCI-E x1 slots between PCI-E x16 slots, so that you have actually space to install another PCI-E x16 card (be it GPU or something else) when your main GPU is multi-slot and overhangs PCI-E slot below it.

E.g here's an image of my MoBo:

1024.png


From top to bottom, i have:
* PCI-E x1
* PCI-E x16
* PCI-E x1
* PCI-E x1
* PCI-E x16
* PCI-E x1
* PCI-E x16

Usually, the top most PCI-E slot is x1, so that CPU cooler has more room to be in. Also, 1st M.2 slot is usually just right of the 1st PCI-E x1 slot.
not sure what you mean by M.2 slot?
 

Richard1234

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USAFRet explained few but i'll go more in-depth about the differences;

2.5" SATA SSD is in relative good size, while M.2 drive is tiny.
Just compare the size of M.2 drive to the CMOS battery as seen here:

QPGPfY9.jpg

the confusion was because when I saw this photo from the original link:
https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...tb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v8p2t0cw

I thought that was some gigantic object maybe the width of a 2.5 inch drive and twice as long!

I didnt expect a tiddler!
 

Aeacus

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Ambassador
M.2 drive's dimensions are actually written in it's name. E.g 980 Pro i included into my build suggestion is M.2-2280. Meaning that the SSD is 22mm wide and 80mm long. So, it's tiny.

There are varying lengths of M.2 storage drives, where 80mm is longest. The link i gave in my previous reply has other sizes listed as well.
 
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Richard1234

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many questions!

USAFRet explained few but i'll go more in-depth about the differences;

2.5" SATA SSD is in relative good size, while M.2 drive is tiny.
Just compare the size of M.2 drive to the CMOS battery as seen here:

QPGPfY9.jpg


Btw, image is of my Skylake build, when i bought my 1st M.2 SSD (Samsung 960 Evo 500GB).

2.5" SATA SSD needs two cable connections: SATA power (from PSU) and SATA data (to MoBo).
M.2 drive doesn't need any cables since it slots directly onto M.2 port on MoBo.

There are two forms of M.2 drives: AHCI and NVMe. AHCI drives use SATA protocol and aren't any faster than regular 2.5" SATA SSDs. Not much point getting M.2 AHCI drive. Now, NVMe uses PCI-E protocol and compared to SATA protocol, is considerably faster.
Comparison: https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compa...ng-980-Pro-NVMe-PCIe-M2-2TB/m972228vsm1454302
where you say it uses the PCI-E protocol, but an M.2 slot is shown elsewhere, so are you saying the socket isnt PCI-E, but the protocol is PCI-E?

this URL: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...tb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v8p2t0cw

says "M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4", but the item wont fit in a PCI-E x4 slot? just the protocol is PCI-E? or does it have 2 alternative sockets?
at least is a nonstandard PCI-E x4 slot! the way some ancient printers will have both a parallel socket and a USB socket?


I want to go for Ryzen 9 7950X3D, is this one specific CPU, or are there variants?

the memory compatibility, is that a CPU thing or a mobo thing? or both? the memory is compatible with the mobo or compatible with the CPU or has to be compatible with both?

I am thinking of going for the "Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5", now for coolers you said:
"Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE (current king of air coolers), or Noctua NH-D15S (or NH-U14S) or Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 (including Dark Rock Elite)."

but I thought Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 was a PSU! are you referring to an inbuilt cooler?

you say Thermalright is the "king of the air coolers", but can it be used with the Dark Rock Pro 5?

also where you talk of air coolers, the word "air" suggests there are other kinds of coolers, I am sure long ago I heard of other kinds of coolers, perhaps using refrigerants, what alternative technologies for cooling for the Dark Rock Pro 5, presumably the cooler is for the entire computer and not just the CPU?

I have solar panels, which in the summer produce up to 2500Watts, and our summer days last till 10pm, so power isnt necessarily a problem for me, as electricity is "free" during the summer. in the winter it can be down to 60Watts, right now at 145pm 4th Jan on an overcast day it is producing 76Watts, what I dont want is heat. power and heat presumably are inter-related, I dont know if all the power usage of a computer emerges as sound + heat, with a little as light from leds, but maybe a significant amount emerges as non heat non light electromagnetic radiation?

a fan presumably doesnt get rid of heat but wafts it away from the machine! so presumably big heat is still there just wafted to the room and distributed via convection, and you'd have a heat problem. where not only is the heat still there and more spread out but the fan will add its own heat?

a refrigerant also just pumps the heat elsewhere, and adds its own heat. I have some air conditioners, and the heat is pumped to units outside the house to waft that heat up into the atmosphere! a fridge also same problem, that it will make the room a bit warmer, with the contents of the fridge cold. not a major problem, but could become a problem for a server!

so without a channel to the outside of the house, both a fan and a regrigerant will make the house hotter! I see this as a potential problem with having server grade equipment!

with the system around a 7950X3D cpu, I'd want the full system to at least only mildly heat up the room!

I do have an air conditioner but that seems a bit excessive to need that to keep computer temperatures under control, although maybe in the winter the computer could help heat the house!

I dont play 3D games, so that presumably would greatly reduce my power usage and heat generation?

one mobo mentioned was: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...-wifi-atx-lga1700-motherboard-pro-z790-p-wifi

I dont know if this is compatible with the 7950X3D above?

it says socket/CPU LGA1700, so presumably it wont work, but nonetheless whilst looking at this specific mobo, I have some questions which maybe will then apply to other mobos.


there is also the question of parallel memory sockets, that one says 4x DDR5, which I imagine is plenty? maybe put 4Gig on each?


where the webpage says "MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard", I am a bit confused by why it says "wifi", is it saying the mobo itself can receive wifi like with laptops? or is it just saying it is compatible with a certain kind of external wifi dongle?

and does this also mean some mobos are more limited for wifi?

(its like if a pub says "good food served here", that suggests some pubs serve bad food!)


this leads to a further question not in the original post, which is I currently have a modem from the internet provider, a D-Link DSL-3782, and then a wireless dongle at the PC, which I estimate with a laser measurer to be 5.4m away. where there are 2 plasterboard walls in the way. I have the PC in a storage cupboard, then cables through a hole in the wall for my monitor, keyboard, mouse, loudspeakers in the next room, that way I get total silence despite a noisy machine!

now I keep having problems with the wireless dongle, and other wireless dongles, which maybe is the USB, but does lead to some questions:

do all these modems transmit the same power of signal?

do all wireless dongles have the same signal reception sensitivity?

if not, is there a recommendation for a more powerfully transmitting modem, AND OR a very sensitive wireless dongle?

money is no object initially for this question, if the optimal gizmos are prohibitively expensive, then to put a price limit.

I'd rather spend an extra £100 and have perfect wifi, than to perennially be checking the modem and dongle! but not £10000


I dont want to locate what this specific dongle is, as its some arbitrary junk from the internet.

I tried using a signal through the mains idea like TP-Link, namely a BT Broadband Extender 600, but I found that caused interference with my audio! took ages to troubleshoot, where I thought the speakers were defective. bought some identical replacement ones, also got the problem. Then after a lot of experimenting, I found if I switched off the ethernet-through-the-power-socket devices, now perfect audio! Now the ethernet-through-mains does avoid the problem of signal strength, but just introduces a worse problem. most of the time I dont use audio, and either am working on text, or photos. audio just for videos, eg Youtube or adverts.

with the above mobo, as regards M.2, the URL says:

M.2 slots:
  • 2242/2260/2280/22110 M-key
  • 2242/2260/2280 M-key
  • 2242/2260/2280 M-key
  • 2242/2260/2280 M-key
  • 2230 E-key
the M.2 drive earlier's URL says M.2-2280

this leads to some questions, is it saying 5 M.2 slots?

you said 2280 means 22mm x 80mm, so the 2242, 2260, 2230, 22110 are the same idea?
is the 22110 a 22mm x 110mm drive? (presumably not a 221mm x 10mm!)

does the last item in the above list, 2230 mean the earlier M.2 drive wont work with that slot?

these slots are all the same data rate, protocol and socket? where maybe more surrounding space on the mobo for say the 22110?

what are the M-key and E-key?

any other keys on other mobos?

I dont directly see any mention of key at the M.2 drive's URL
 

Aeacus

Titan
Ambassador
where you say it uses the PCI-E protocol, but an M.2 slot is shown elsewhere, so are you saying the socket isnt PCI-E, but the protocol is PCI-E?

this URL: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...tb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v8p2t0cw

says "M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4", but the item wont fit in a PCI-E x4 slot? just the protocol is PCI-E? or does it have 2 alternative sockets?
at least is a nonstandard PCI-E x4 slot! the way some ancient printers will have both a parallel socket and a USB socket?
I take that you didn't read the link i gave about M.2 sockets,
link: https://premioinc.com/blogs/blog/wh...lot-the-future-of-compact-robust-technologies

Since if you did, you'd know that:
  • M. 2 bus interface supports PCIe lanes, SATA, and USB.
  • M. 2 logical interface supports NVMe and SATA interface for modern and legacy technology compatibility.
Links i give aren't just as a filler or for show. They contain actual important information about your queries.

I want to go for Ryzen 9 7950X3D, is this one specific CPU, or are there variants?
There is one variation of that CPU R9 7950X,
specs: https://www.amd.com/en/product/12151

R9 7950X3D specs as well, for easy comparison,
link: https://www.amd.com/en/product/12741

Main difference between R9 7950X and R9 7950X3D is, that 7950X3D has 3D-cahce and in turn, double the amount of L3 cache than 7950X (128MB vs 64MB). Of course, 7950X3D has a bit lower base clock (4.2 Ghz vs 4.5 Ghz) but both are able to boost to same level (up to 5.7 Ghz). But due to the 3D-cache, 7950X3D is more expensive than 7950X. 15 quid more to be exact,
pcpp: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/22XJ7P,X6XV3C/

Further reading about the differences of the two,
link: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-vs-ryzen-9-7950x3d/

Here's also full lineup of Ryzen 7000-series CPUs,
link: https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen

the memory compatibility, is that a CPU thing or a mobo thing? or both? the memory is compatible with the mobo or compatible with the CPU or has to be compatible with both?
That's MoBo thing. And you can find memory compatibility list for individual MoBo on that MoBo's official specs page, under "Support" section.

but I thought Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 was a PSU! are you referring to an inbuilt cooler?
Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 is dedicated aftermarket CPU tower-style air cooler,
specs: https://www.bequiet.com/en/cpucooler/4466

I guess you mixed it up with Be Quiet! PSU lineup, namely Dark Power series.
Full PSU lineup: https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply

you say Thermalright is the "king of the air coolers", but can it be used with the Dark Rock Pro 5?
Thermalright as a brand whole, isn't best when it comes making CPU air coolers. Only one model that they made, the Peerless Assassin 120 SE, did beat the former king of air coolers: Noctua NH-D15.

Noctua in the other hand, is the de-facto brand when it comes to CPU air coolers. They have been #1 for many years, even a decade. Honorable mention in CPU cooling is: Arctic Cooling.

As of "combining" two CPU air coolers - this is not possible.
CPU air cooler consists of: heatsink (fin stack) and a fan or two.

So, what you can do, is buying CPU air cooler and replacing the fans on it, IF the fans that come with it aren't for your likening.
E.g like i did when i bought my Arctic Cooling Freezer I32.

Top left: CPU cooler in retail box. It came with one 120mm semi-passive fan, in push configuration.
Top right: i installed 2nd Arctic Cooling 120mm fan at the rear of heatsink, for push-pull configuration.
Bottom left: ended up replacing both fans for Corsair ML120 Pro red LED fans, for better eyecandy and FAR better performance in terms of airflow (CFM) and static pressure (mmH2O) than what Arctic Cooling fans were capable of.
Bottom right: night shot.

CnJfjWh.jpg


But Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE, Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5, Noctua NH-D15(S) are such a good CPU coolers that it is not intended to replace fans on them. Else-ways you can reduce the CPU cooler performance and/or increase noise.

also where you talk of air coolers, the word "air" suggests there are other kinds of coolers, I am sure long ago I heard of other kinds of coolers, perhaps using refrigerants, what alternative technologies for cooling for the Dark Rock Pro 5, presumably the cooler is for the entire computer and not just the CPU?
In general, there are two CPU cooling methods:
* air
* liquid

Air coolers divide between:
* passive cooling
* active cooling

Passive cooling is just that, just a heat spreader/heat sink without any fans. Passive coolers rely either on natural convection or airflow from other parts of the PC.
E.g Noctua NH-P1, specs: https://noctua.at/en/nh-p1

Active cooling is heat spreader with fan or two, with active airflow through the heat spreader. When someone talks about CPU air coolers, active cooling is usually intended. Active coolers classify into 3 main categories based on their size:
* top-down, e.g Noctua NH-C14s: https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-c14s
* mid sized, e.g Noctua NH-U12S: https://noctua.at/en/nh-u12s
* big sized, e.g Noctua NH-D15: https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-d15.html

Top-down CPU coolers are usually used in small, mini-ITX builds, where there isn't enough CPU cooler clearance for bigger CPU coolers.
Mid sized CPU coolers are suitable for most PCs. Even my Arctic Freezer I32 is mid sized CPU cooler.
Big sized CPU coolers are best for high-end builds with powerful CPUs. Also they offer the best cooling performance and are often twin-tower coolers (two separate heatsinks).

Then there are niche air coolers as well, like;
IceGiant ProSiphon Elite (monolithic cooling), review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ice-giant-prosiphon-elite-review
Phononic HEX 2.0 (thermoelectric cooling), review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phononic-hex-2-thermoelectric-cpu-cooler,4665.html

Most of the times, the niche CPU air coolers cost a lot more than conventional air coolers, while offering little, if any improvement in cooling. So, it is more efficient to buy conventional air cooler than niche one.

Liquid coolers divide between:
* water coolers
* cryogenic fluid coolers

Cryogenic fluid coolers use either LN2 or He and are #1 in the world in terms of cooling. But since cryogenic fluids are very expensive, especially He, these CPU coolers are only used in record breaking benchmarks.

Water coolers divide between:
* closed loop
* open loop

Closed loop coolers are known as AIOs (All-In-One) water cooler, where entire cooler comes as single unit: pump, tubing, radiator + fans. E.g Arctic Cooling Freezer II 240,
specs: https://www.arctic.de/en/Liquid-Freezer-II-240/ACFRE00046B

Open loops are assembled piece-by-piece, e.g EKWB,
link: https://www.ekwb.com/custom-loop/#product-lines

Open loops are entirely custom made, since you can choose all and any individual parts + assemble it yourself. This is also the most expensive and most maintenance heavy, outside of cryogenic fluids.


As far as AIOs vs air coolers go, you won't gain any cooling performance if you go with AIO over air cooler since both are cooled by ambient air.
For equal cooling performance between AIOs and air coolers, rad needs to be 240mm or 280mm. Smaller rads: 120mm and 140mm are almost always outperformed by mid-sized air coolers. Single slot rads are good in mini-ITX builds where you don't have enough CPU cooler clearance to install mid-sized CPU air cooler.

Here are the positive sides of both (air and AIO) CPU cooling methods;

Pros of air coolers:
less cost
less maintenance
less noise
far longer longevity
no leakage risks
doesn't take up case fan slots
additional cooling for the RAM
CPU cools down faster after heavy heat output

Pros of AIOs:
no RAM clearance issues*
no CPU clearance issues
CPU takes longer time to heat up during heavy heat output (about 30 mins)
* on some cases, top mounted rad can give RAM clearance issues

While how the CPU cooler looks inside the PC depends on a person. Some people prefer to see small AIO pump in the middle of their MoBo with tubing going to the rad while others prefer to see big heatsink with fans in the middle of their MoBo.

Main difference between AIO and air cooler is that with AIO, you'll get more noise at a higher cost while cooling performance remains the same.
Here's also one good article for you to read where former king of air coolers (Noctua NH-D15) was put against 5x high-end AIOs, including former king of AIOs (NZXT x61 Kraken),
link: http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

Personally, i'd go with air coolers every day of the week. With same cooling performance, the pros of air coolers outweigh the pros of AIOs considerably. While, for me, the 3 main pros would be:
1. Less noise.
Since i like my PC to be quiet, i can't stand the loud noise AIO makes. Also, when air gets trapped inside the AIO (some AIOs are more prone to this than others), there's additional noise coming from inside the pump.
2. Longevity.
Cheaper AIOs usually last 2-3 years and high-end ones 4-5 years before you need to replace it. While with air coolers, their life expectancy is basically unlimited. Only thing that can go bad on an air cooler is the fan on it. If the fan dies, your CPU still has cooling in form of a big heatsink. Also, new 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't cost much and it's easy to replace one. While with AIOs, the main thing that usually goes bad is the pump itself. And when that happens, your CPU has no cooling whatsoever. Since you can't replace pump on an AIO, you need to buy whole new AIO to replace the old one out.
3. No leakage risks.
Since there's liquid circling inside the AIO, there is always a risk that your AIO can leak. While it's rare, it has happened. It's well known fact that liquids and electronics don't mix.

a fan presumably doesnt get rid of heat but wafts it away from the machine! so presumably big heat is still there just wafted to the room and distributed via convection, and you'd have a heat problem. where not only is the heat still there and more spread out but the fan will add its own heat?
Standard 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't add any additional heat to the room, compared what PC as a whole outputs. So, no need to worry about PC fans.

with the system around a 7950X3D cpu, I'd want the full system to at least only mildly heat up the room!
This depends on the size of the room and workload on the PC.

If you have small room and keep the door/windows closed, PC will heat up the room. Even my PC does heat up the small home office we have. But if i were to open the door, my PC alone isn't enough to heat up our entire apartment (76 m2). That doesn't happen even when both of our PCs work at the same time.

With this, there is a trade-off you need to think about. You can either:
* buy low-end PC with Ryzen 3 /Core i3 CPU, which has low performance and in turn, isn't powerful enough to heat up small room.
* buy high-end PC with Ryzen 9/Core i9 CPU, which matches the performance you need, but also heats up the room more.

I dont play 3D games, so that presumably would greatly reduce my power usage and heat generation?
Without any gaming, you don't need to buy dedicated GPU, thus keeping the heat output of PC considerably lower than conventional PC has it.

one mobo mentioned was: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...-wifi-atx-lga1700-motherboard-pro-z790-p-wifi

I dont know if this is compatible with the 7950X3D above?

it says socket/CPU LGA1700, so presumably it wont work, but nonetheless whilst looking at this specific mobo, I have some questions which maybe will then apply to other mobos.
LGA1700 is Intel CPU socket and will work only with Intel 12th, 13th and 14th gen CPUs. It is not compatible with AMD Ryzen 7000-series CPUs, since those CPUs use AM5 socket.

there is also the question of parallel memory sockets, that one says 4x DDR5, which I imagine is plenty? maybe put 4Gig on each?
4 RAM slots is standard with MoBos at current date. Though 4 GB per slot is too less at current date, since if you were to populate all 4x RAM slots, you'll end up 16 GB of RAM.

Moreover, there are no 4 GB DIMMs of DDR5. Smallest capacity DIMM for DDR5 is 8 GB. So, if you populate 2x slots, you end up with 16 GB in total. Populate all slots and you get 32 GB total.

where the webpage says "MSI PRO Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard", I am a bit confused by why it says "wifi", is it saying the mobo itself can receive wifi like with laptops? or is it just saying it is compatible with a certain kind of external wifi dongle?
For that specific MoBo:

Intel® Wi-Fi 6E
The Wireless module is pre-installed in the M.2 (Key-E) slot
Supports MU-MIMO TX/RX, 2.4GHz / 5GHz / 6GHz* (160MHz) up to 2.4Gbps
Supports 802.11 a/ b/ g/ n/ ac/ ax

Supports Bluetooth® 5.3, FIPS, FISMA

* Wi-Fi 6E 6GHz may depend on every country’s regulations and will be ready in Windows 11.
** Bluetooth 5.3 will be ready in Windows 10 build 21H1 and Windows 11.


and does this also mean some mobos are more limited for wifi?
Older MoBos have older revision of connectivity, e.g one example of Intel Z490 chipset (MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge wi-fi);

Intel® AX201
The Wireless module is pre-install in the M2 (Key-E) slot
Supports 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac/ax, MU-MINO Rx, 2.4GHz-5GHz (160MHz) up to 2.4Gbps
WiFi 6

Supports Bluetooth® 5.1 , FIPS, FISMA
So, you need to look up the specifics of the MoBo, but each same chipset MoBo usually has the same connectiviy revision.

do all these modems transmit the same power of signal?
If you mean standalone modem/router, then their power (wi-fi area cover) differs. But if you mean MoBo wi-fi solution, then all of them have the same area of reach. Wi-fi MoBos also come with two wi-fi anteannae, to help with connectivity reach.

do all wireless dongles have the same signal reception sensitivity?
No. Those dongles are cheap and have poorest connectivity. Usually used with laptops due to their small and portable size.

if not, is there a recommendation for a more powerfully transmitting modem, AND OR a very sensitive wireless dongle?

money is no object initially for this question, if the optimal gizmos are prohibitively expensive, then to put a price limit.
Further reading: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-wi-fi-6-routers
In this case, look for those, where the cons are price and/or bulky size. At least 3 such routers are listed in the above link (one from TP-Link, two from Asus).

I have Cisco EPC3940L wi-fi router that has 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz wi-fi networks. Our desktop PCs are connected to it via cable and wi-fi connection is for our mobile devices (smart phones, tablet, laptop, printer). Thus far, i haven't had a need to upgrade it since it gets the job done just fine.

this leads to some questions, is it saying 5 M.2 slots?
Yes. That MoBo has 5x M.2 slots.

you said 2280 means 22mm x 80mm, so the 2242, 2260, 2230, 22110 are the same idea?
Yes.

is the 22110 a 22mm x 110mm drive?
Yes.

does the last item in the above list, 2230 mean the earlier M.2 drive wont work with that slot?
That M.2 2230 E-key is the slot where wi-fi module is installed into. It comes pre-installed with MoBo. But you can replace it in the future for better one, that supports upcoming wi-fi revisions.

these slots are all the same data rate, protocol and socket? where maybe more surrounding space on the mobo for say the 22110?
Those differ by MoBo.

E.g for the LGA1700 MoBo (MSI Pro Z790-P wi-fi) you linked earlier;
M.2_1 Source (From CPU) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 22110/2280/2260/2242 devices
M.2_2 Source (From Chipset) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260/2242 devices
M.2_3 Source (From Chipset) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 / SATA mode, supports 2280/2260/2242 devices
M.2_4 Source (From Chipset) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 / SATA mode, supports 2280/2260/2242 devices

what are the M-key and E-key?

any other keys on other mobos?

I dont directly see any mention of key at the M.2 drive's URL
Again, if you would've read the link about M.2 sockets i linked, you'd already know.
From the so helpful article i linked:

M.2 Keying Explained​


It is important to note that not all M.2 ports are the same. When choosing M.2 devices or M.2 ports on a motherboard, you need to pay attention to the key's specifications identified on the motherboard. M.2 keys are the types of edge connectors that differentiate the M.2 connectors. The slot and the device are required to have the same key in order to be compatible. Here are some of the most common M.2 key types (B, M, B+M, A, E, A+E):

m.2-bkey-mkey-b+mkey-keying-explain


  • B Key: Has a six pins gap at the left side of the card, and the right side is the host controller.
  • B Key Common Usage: SATA, PCIe x2, and SSD.
  • B Key Interfaces Support: PCIe x2, SATA, USB 2.0/3.0, UIM, HSIC, SSIC, I2C, and SMBus.

  • M Key: Has a five pins gap at the right side of the card, and the left side is the host controller.
  • M Key Common Usage: PCIex4 and NVMe SSD.
  • M Key Interfaces Support: PCIe x4, SATA, and SMBus.

B+M Key: Combination of both B Key and M Key with 6 pins gap at the left, 5 pins gap at the right side of the card, and the center is the host controller. B+M Key is compatible with both the B key and M key slots on the motherboard M.2 interface.

M.2-akey-ekey-a+ekey-keying


  • A Key: Has a 4 pins gap at the left side of the card, and the right side is the host controller.
  • A Key Common Usage: WiFi, Bluetooth, and Cellular modules.
  • A Key Interfaces Support: 2x PCIe x 1, USB 2.0, I2C, and Display Port (DP) x4.

  • E Key: Has a 12 pins gap at the left side of the card, and the right side is the host controller.
  • E Key Common Usage: WiFi, Bluetooth, and Cellular modules.
  • E Kay Interfaces Support: 2x PCI x1, USB 2.0, I2C, SDIO, UAT, PCM, and CNVi.

A+E Key: Combination of both A key and E key with 4 pins and 12 pins gap at the left side of the card, and the right side is the host controller. A+E Key is compatible with both A key and E key slots on the motherboard M.2 interface.
 

Richard1234

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I take that you didn't read the link i gave about M.2 sockets,
link: https://premioinc.com/blogs/blog/wh...lot-the-future-of-compact-robust-technologies

Since if you did, you'd know that:

Links i give aren't just as a filler or for show. They contain actual important information about your queries.
I read many but not all, that one I didnt read! with internet links I assess perhaps wrongly, which links to follow, and also how much to read, as a link could have further links which have further links, where I could have 10 tabs open on the browser and never finish reading the first tab!

but I have now gone and read that entire webpage, which does answer some of my other questions.

with that URL, where it says:

Here are some specifications of M.2 SSDs you can get today:
  • M.2 SATA SSD (AHCI Protocol) – 500MB/s read and write speed
  • M.2 PCIe SSD (AHCI Protocol) – 2Gb/s and 1.5Gb/s read and write speed
  • M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD – 3.5Gb/s and 2.45GB/s read and write speed
are all the B and b symbols bits or is B byte and b bit?

I have some vague memory being told that MB means 1024 x 1024 bytes, but that mB means 1000 x 1000,
and KB means 1024 bytes, whereas kB means 1000 bytes. similarly Giga and G means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, whereas giga and g mean 1000 x 1000 x 1000,

in the metric system, kilo means 1000, mega means 1000000, eg megawatts, giga means 1000000000, eg I think gigahertz probably means 1000,000,000 cycles per second, as Hertz is a metric idea, so technically one ought to write ghz, and not Ghz. with radio frequencies, I think kilohertz etc mean 1000 and not 1024!


but for computers because based on binary, they rejigged this so that kilo, mega, giga are based on 1024 instead of 1000, and I think use a capital initial letter to distinguish which version of these words are being used. basically kilo, mega, giga already have a meaning with the decimal system, which will cause confusion, so one should use K, M, G to disambiguate if you mean 1024, 1024 x 1024 and 1024 x 1024 x 1024.

there is also the ambiguity of b standing for byte and also for bit, where I think probably b should mean bit and B mean byte. in all cases the smaller size uses the smaller case.

eg with Windows 10 disk management, it says 465.76GB for one drive, but if I right click properties, it says 476939MB,
divide by 1024 and you get 465.7607422, where they use the notation I mention, G = 1024 x M, and B = byte.


There is one variation of that CPU R9 7950X,
specs: https://www.amd.com/en/product/12151

R9 7950X3D specs as well, for easy comparison,
link: https://www.amd.com/en/product/12741

Main difference between R9 7950X and R9 7950X3D is, that 7950X3D has 3D-cahce and in turn, double the amount of L3 cache than 7950X (128MB vs 64MB). Of course, 7950X3D has a bit lower base clock (4.2 Ghz vs 4.5 Ghz) but both are able to boost to same level (up to 5.7 Ghz). But due to the 3D-cache, 7950X3D is more expensive than 7950X. 15 quid more to be exact,
I never worry about small percentage differences, eg the 4.2Ghz vs 4.5Ghz here, but for heat it may be important.

at uni, one of our lecturers said that with programming on faster systems you shouldnt worry about a factor of 2, better for your program to be more readable, easier to understand, easier to modify than to have an extra factor of 2 and to be a nightmare to manage! in practical terms it means you shouldnt spend months trying to make a program 10% faster, but should focus on "big picture" enhancements, eg use double buffering and software level caching, etc. but not worry about making the software level caching 10% faster.

at that time they were countering the tendency of programmers to program in assembly language to get max speed, arguing it is better to use C, where it will be a bit slower, could even be 2x slower, but the C program is portable, and can be used on any hardware. if you programmed in assembly language, potentially it could be 2x as fast, but would only work on that one computer. Our department had many totally different systems all using Unix, and it wasnt viable to maximise speed on each. the same lecturer said that their MO was to try and use all hardware until it malfunctioned, then service it, until unserviceable, and then to throw it out in a skip. it wasnt viable to have everything at max speed.

better for your program to do more stuff a bit slower, than to do less stuff a bit faster.

with slower CPUs, a 2x speed up is not that impressive, 8x is impressive where you notice things are significantly faster.
2x you wont be completely sure it is faster!

for copying a disk, 2x becomes important, eg 4 hours instead of 8.

this kind of thinking applies to money, where one shouldnt worry about an extra 15 quid, longer term you wont notice you spent an extra 15 quid. if its a lot hotter, but performance gains are marginal, better to not spend the extra 15! its a balancing act, where money and speed and heat are different parts of the balance.

it is a mistake to go all out on one aspect, eg cheapest and get maybe a Dell, or fastest and pay 10000, or coolest and pay a huge price! if you do that, you get an imbalanced decision


pcpp: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/22XJ7P,X6XV3C/

Further reading about the differences of the two,
link: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-vs-ryzen-9-7950x3d/

Here's also full lineup of Ryzen 7000-series CPUs,
link: https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen


That's MoBo thing. And you can find memory compatibility list for individual MoBo on that MoBo's official specs page, under "Support" section.


Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 is dedicated aftermarket CPU tower-style air cooler,
specs: https://www.bequiet.com/en/cpucooler/4466

I guess you mixed it up with Be Quiet! PSU lineup, namely Dark Power series.
Full PSU lineup: https://www.bequiet.com/en/powersupply

looks like I got my wires crossed!

for PSUs, you were saying 80+ titanium, and mentioned some, but do you have a ranking of current ones?

do these all have their own fans? are the coolers mentioned for the rest of the computer eg CPU, graphics card etc?

where I will try to get an 80+ titanium PSU, I would also like the PSU to be able to supply more power and have more direct cables, presumably the modular cabling,

I tend to attach a lot of stuff to my PC, and things malfunction if you draw more power than the PSU supplies, eg if you use lots of power splitter cables. thus I want a PSU which can supply bigger amounts,
but I also want a PSU which isnt too noisy.

I have my PC in a different room, in a storage cupboard, with cables through the wall to make it silent, as the PC is as noisy as a helicopter launchpad!

if PSUs have inbuilt fans, I want one which is as quiet as possible, I just dont know if any are so quiet that I can have them in the same room. the noise of fans and spinning disks gradually melts my brain!

The HP Spectre laptop is total silence.

I have to consider also going for the top end hardware which is totally silent like that laptop. because at the moment I am limited where I can use the computer in order to have silence. I dont know if you can create an ATX PC which is complete silence?


Thermalright as a brand whole, isn't best when it comes making CPU air coolers. Only one model that they made, the Peerless Assassin 120 SE, did beat the former king of air coolers: Noctua NH-D15.

Noctua in the other hand, is the de-facto brand when it comes to CPU air coolers. They have been #1 for many years, even a decade. Honorable mention in CPU cooling is: Arctic Cooling.

As of "combining" two CPU air coolers - this is not possible.
CPU air cooler consists of: heatsink (fin stack) and a fan or two.

So, what you can do, is buying CPU air cooler and replacing the fans on it, IF the fans that come with it aren't for your likening.
E.g like i did when i bought my Arctic Cooling Freezer I32.

Top left: CPU cooler in retail box. It came with one 120mm semi-passive fan, in push configuration.
Top right: i installed 2nd Arctic Cooling 120mm fan at the rear of heatsink, for push-pull configuration.
Bottom left: ended up replacing both fans for Corsair ML120 Pro red LED fans, for better eyecandy and FAR better performance in terms of airflow (CFM) and static pressure (mmH2O) than what Arctic Cooling fans were capable of.
Bottom right: night shot.

CnJfjWh.jpg

with the various solutions you discuss, is the way to attach the cooler well defined?

I dont want a cooling contraption and a mobo, and no idea where or how to attach it!

But Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE, Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5, Noctua NH-D15(S) are such a good CPU coolers that it is not intended to replace fans on them. Else-ways you can reduce the CPU cooler performance and/or increase noise.


In general, there are two CPU cooling methods:
* air
* liquid

Air coolers divide between:
* passive cooling
* active cooling

Passive cooling is just that, just a heat spreader/heat sink without any fans. Passive coolers rely either on natural convection or airflow from other parts of the PC.
E.g Noctua NH-P1, specs: https://noctua.at/en/nh-p1
the passive cooling sounds interesting, for making a totally silent PC,

is it viable to make a tower computer with the R9 7950X3D cpu, which is totally silent?

would I need to restrain certain usages, eg maybe only go for some graphics cards?

Active cooling is heat spreader with fan or two, with active airflow through the heat spreader. When someone talks about CPU air coolers, active cooling is usually intended. Active coolers classify into 3 main categories based on their size:
* top-down, e.g Noctua NH-C14s: https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-c14s
* mid sized, e.g Noctua NH-U12S: https://noctua.at/en/nh-u12s
* big sized, e.g Noctua NH-D15: https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-d15.html

Top-down CPU coolers are usually used in small, mini-ITX builds, where there isn't enough CPU cooler clearance for bigger CPU coolers.
Mid sized CPU coolers are suitable for most PCs. Even my Arctic Freezer I32 is mid sized CPU cooler.
Big sized CPU coolers are best for high-end builds with powerful CPUs. Also they offer the best cooling performance and are often twin-tower coolers (two separate heatsinks).

Then there are niche air coolers as well, like;
IceGiant ProSiphon Elite (monolithic cooling), review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ice-giant-prosiphon-elite-review
Phononic HEX 2.0 (thermoelectric cooling), review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phononic-hex-2-thermoelectric-cpu-cooler,4665.html

Most of the times, the niche CPU air coolers cost a lot more than conventional air coolers, while offering little, if any improvement in cooling. So, it is more efficient to buy conventional air cooler than niche one.

Liquid coolers divide between:
* water coolers
* cryogenic fluid coolers

Cryogenic fluid coolers use either LN2 or He and are #1 in the world in terms of cooling. But since cryogenic fluids are very expensive, especially He, these CPU coolers are only used in record breaking benchmarks.

Water coolers divide between:
* closed loop
* open loop

Closed loop coolers are known as AIOs (All-In-One) water cooler, where entire cooler comes as single unit: pump, tubing, radiator + fans. E.g Arctic Cooling Freezer II 240,
specs: https://www.arctic.de/en/Liquid-Freezer-II-240/ACFRE00046B

Open loops are assembled piece-by-piece, e.g EKWB,
link: https://www.ekwb.com/custom-loop/#product-lines

Open loops are entirely custom made, since you can choose all and any individual parts + assemble it yourself. This is also the most expensive and most maintenance heavy, outside of cryogenic fluids.


As far as AIOs vs air coolers go, you won't gain any cooling performance if you go with AIO over air cooler since both are cooled by ambient air.
For equal cooling performance between AIOs and air coolers, rad needs to be 240mm or 280mm. Smaller rads: 120mm and 140mm are almost always outperformed by mid-sized air coolers. Single slot rads are good in mini-ITX builds where you don't have enough CPU cooler clearance to install mid-sized CPU air cooler.
rad = ?

my guess is "radiator" but I prefer to not guess!

Here are the positive sides of both (air and AIO) CPU cooling methods;

Pros of air coolers:
less cost
less maintenance
less noise
far longer longevity
no leakage risks
doesn't take up case fan slots
additional cooling for the RAM
CPU cools down faster after heavy heat output
less noise is an immediate advantage, longevity and less maintenance are longer term advantages, also important


Pros of AIOs:
no RAM clearance issues*
no CPU clearance issues
CPU takes longer time to heat up during heavy heat output (about 30 mins)
* on some cases, top mounted rad can give RAM clearance issues

While how the CPU cooler looks inside the PC depends on a person. Some people prefer to see small AIO pump in the middle of their MoBo with tubing going to the rad while others prefer to see big heatsink with fans in the middle of their MoBo.

not concerned about the look, more concerned about the crowdedness, would prefer something which uses less space,

but less noise is an overriding criterion,

as regards the case, I'd be looking to get the Phanteks Enthoo Pro Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Case which you recommended.


Main difference between AIO and air cooler is that with AIO, you'll get more noise at a higher cost while cooling performance remains the same.

the "more noise" is the deciding criterion, ie to decide against the AIO idea

Here's also one good article for you to read where former king of air coolers (Noctua NH-D15) was put against 5x high-end AIOs, including former king of AIOs (NZXT x61 Kraken),
link: http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/1

Personally, i'd go with air coolers every day of the week. With same cooling performance, the pros of air coolers outweigh the pros of AIOs considerably. While, for me, the 3 main pros would be:
1. Less noise.
Since i like my PC to be quiet, i can't stand the loud noise AIO makes. Also, when air gets trapped inside the AIO (some AIOs are more prone to this than others), there's additional noise coming from inside the pump.
2. Longevity.
Cheaper AIOs usually last 2-3 years and high-end ones 4-5 years before you need to replace it. While with air coolers, their life expectancy is basically unlimited. Only thing that can go bad on an air cooler is the fan on it. If the fan dies, your CPU still has cooling in form of a big heatsink. Also, new 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't cost much and it's easy to replace one. While with AIOs, the main thing that usually goes bad is the pump itself. And when that happens, your CPU has no cooling whatsoever. Since you can't replace pump on an AIO, you need to buy whole new AIO to replace the old one out.
3. No leakage risks.
Since there's liquid circling inside the AIO, there is always a risk that your AIO can leak. While it's rare, it has happened. It's well known fact that liquids and electronics don't mix.

all sound like compelling reasons!

could you suggest some combinations for a full system EXCLUDING monitor + keyboard + mouse + speakers involving:

Phanteks Enthoo Pro Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Case
R9 7950X3D cpu,

for an 80+ titanium PSU, with more power, modular cables, less noise, dont know if silence is an option,

where if viable total silence of the entire system, maybe via passive cooling, otherwise minimal silence if fans needed somewhere,

and then a mobo which has maybe more M.2 sockets, eg for maybe 2 onboard drives, one for Windows, the other for app data,

and also a top end wifi solution for the combination, which might be supplied with the mobo like you explain later,

have I missed out anything else a system needs?

I will recycle the monitor, keyboard, handshake mouse, and loudspeakers of my existing system!

but may eventually get a touchscreen.


Standard 120mm or 140mm fan doesn't add any additional heat to the room, compared what PC as a whole outputs. So, no need to worry about PC fans.


This depends on the size of the room and workload on the PC.

If you have small room and keep the door/windows closed, PC will heat up the room. Even my PC does heat up the small home office we have. But if i were to open the door, my PC alone isn't enough to heat up our entire apartment (76 m2). That doesn't happen even when both of our PCs work at the same time.

With this, there is a trade-off you need to think about. You can either:
* buy low-end PC with Ryzen 3 /Core i3 CPU, which has low performance and in turn, isn't powerful enough to heat up small room.
* buy high-end PC with Ryzen 9/Core i9 CPU, which matches the performance you need, but also heats up the room more.


Without any gaming, you don't need to buy dedicated GPU, thus keeping the heat output of PC considerably lower than conventional PC has it.

but I dont want the really low quality graphics that my HP Pavilion had before I bought an ATi Radeon graphics card!

which I think possibly couldnt do HD res, but maybe was VGA res.


I would be able to use the highest res monitors, eg my 2010 PC cannot handle the max res of my LG monitor I bought recently, which maybe is a graphics card problem rather than a mobo problem, but I dont want to throw good money after bad by upgrading just the graphics card!

if I get a dedicated GPU, is it correct that this only generates a lot of heat if you run more demanding graphics software?

eg I think my 2010 PC's graphic card heats up much more if I run pixel perfect screensavers, but I havent fully verified that.

would the dedicated GPU for the R9 7950X3D cpu be beyond the scope of passive coolers?

LGA1700 is Intel CPU socket and will work only with Intel 12th, 13th and 14th gen CPUs. It is not compatible with AMD Ryzen 7000-series CPUs, since those CPUs use AM5 socket.


4 RAM slots is standard with MoBos at current date. Though 4 GB per slot is too less at current date, since if you were to populate all 4x RAM slots, you'll end up 16 GB of RAM.

Moreover, there are no 4 GB DIMMs of DDR5. Smallest capacity DIMM for DDR5 is 8 GB. So, if you populate 2x slots, you end up with 16 GB in total. Populate all slots and you get 32 GB total.

I'll go for 4 x 8GB then, I think my smartphone has 32GB! but that is probably also hard drive!


For that specific MoBo:





Older MoBos have older revision of connectivity, e.g one example of Intel Z490 chipset (MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge wi-fi);


So, you need to look up the specifics of the MoBo, but each same chipset MoBo usually has the same connectiviy revision.


If you mean standalone modem/router, then their power (wi-fi area cover) differs. But if you mean MoBo wi-fi solution, then all of them have the same area of reach. Wi-fi MoBos also come with two wi-fi anteannae, to help with connectivity reach.


No. Those dongles are cheap and have poorest connectivity. Usually used with laptops due to their small and portable size.

these USB2 wifi dongles are junk?


Further reading: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-wi-fi-6-routers
In this case, look for those, where the cons are price and/or bulky size. At least 3 such routers are listed in the above link (one from TP-Link, two from Asus).

I am just a bit confused by what is meant by router,

currently I have a modem which connects to the phone socket, and a USB wireless dongle at a USB hub attached to a USB3 card.

when you say wifi router, are you referring to the modem, or the USB dongle, or relaying gizmos between modem and dongle?

eg

modem relay1 relay2 .... relay3 gizmo--PC

for me literally router means something which routes, like a segment of road routes the cars, and for wifi I would think in terms of 3 kinds of gizmos:

start gizmo
forwarding gizmos
end gizmo attached to the PC somehow, maybe on the mobo

I dont think I can read that URL properly until I know what precisely such routers are, it seems to dive right in assuming one already knows!

it says near the start "it's well worth the effort to take a close look at the heart of your home network, namely your router"

but I am not sure what is meant by a router!

on my system, they arent called routers, its a broadband modem and a USB2 wireless dongle.

people no longer seem to talk about modems!

my network doesnt have a heart, it is all at the outer surface! the dongle attached to a hub attached to a USB3 card in an expansion slot of an ancient mobo. none of that is "at the heart", its all far flung and distant, with the modem more than 5m away from the PC!



I have Cisco EPC3940L wi-fi router that has 2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz wi-fi networks. Our desktop PCs are connected to it via cable and wi-fi connection is for our mobile devices (smart phones, tablet, laptop, printer). Thus far, i haven't had a need to upgrade it since it gets the job done just fine.


Yes. That MoBo has 5x M.2 slots.


Yes.


Yes.

can you show a photo of how so many M.2 slots might be arranged on a mobo, eg some other mobo, the photo at the URL for that mobo is inconclusive, no idea which bits are the M.2 slots.


That M.2 2230 E-key is the slot where wi-fi module is installed into. It comes pre-installed with MoBo. But you can replace it in the future for better one, that supports upcoming wi-fi revisions.
after finally reading that URL in full, I now understand about the E-key!

could you give a recommendation of mobo which includes all I need for the wifi, because I find it total confusion as to consider all options!

as regards costs, eventually I may need to build a second system for testing out software, with that I would try and minimise costs somewhat. eg to forego speed in particular, but not functionality. where the system has more technologies but could be relatively slow: where I would be testing if things work, rather than testing speed.

but right now I will try to maximise speeds, but also to minimise noise and heat, where it will be some kind of balancing act.

the R9 7950X3D cpu sounds like it would maximise the time that the system is competitive, I am sure within a year it will no longer be so highly ranked, and each year it will drift further away from the lead, but maybe in 5 years it will still be better than ready made systems like HP or Dell.

my 2010 PC was for years ahead of ready made systems I would see in supermarkets.
 

Aeacus

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are all the B and b symbols bits or is B byte and b bit?
It should be, where;
B - Byte
b - bit

I write bytes with capital letters, e.g: 250 MB, 500 GB, 2 TB.
And bits in normal letters, e.g: 500 Mbit/s, 2 Gbit/s. But writing it in 500 Mb/s or 2 Gb/s is also correct, albeit harder to differentiate between 500 Mb/s and 500 MB/s. Hence why i write out the "bit" part: 500 Mbit/s.

As of out there, in the web, it is easy to make a typo and write 500 MB/s when intention was 500 Mb/s. So, better to confirm the value with e.g online calculator, like this one,
link: https://www.checkyourmath.com/convert/data_rates/index.php

I have some vague memory being told that MB means 1024 x 1024 bytes, but that mB means 1000 x 1000,
and KB means 1024 bytes, whereas kB means 1000 bytes. similarly Giga and G means 1024 x 1024 x 1024, whereas giga and g mean 1000 x 1000 x 1000,

Data capacity between Bytes is by 1024. Whereby: 1 MegaByte = 1024 KiloByte. Binary system.
Data rate between bits is by 1000. Whereby: 1 Kilobit per second = 1000 bits per second. Decimal system.
Dara rate between Bytes and bits is by 8. Whereby: 1 Byte per second = 8 bits per second. Binary system.

this kind of thinking applies to money, where one shouldnt worry about an extra 15 quid, longer term you wont notice you spent an extra 15 quid. if its a lot hotter, but performance gains are marginal, better to not spend the extra 15! its a balancing act, where money and speed and heat are different parts of the balance.
R9 7950X3D by default is 120W CPU. R9 7950X by default is 170W CPU. That's 50W difference on stock clocks. So, in terms of heat production, R9 7950X3D is better (producing less heat on average). But when both boost to up to 5.7 Ghz, both output the same heat levels.

but do you have a ranking of current ones?
Here, PSU tier list,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

It's a bit outdated since it doesn't include the latest ATX 3.0 PSUs. When to include ATX 3.0 PSUs as well, then HardwareBusters have nice roundup,
link: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atx-v3-0-pcie-5-0-ready-psus-picks-2023-hardware-busters/

do these all have their own fans? are the coolers mentioned for the rest of the computer eg CPU, graphics card etc?
Every PSU has internal fan in it, unless specifically stated otherwise. Like Seasonic PRIME Fanless PX,
specs: https://seasonic.com/prime-fanless-px

For the rest of the PC cooling, it is based on individual components.
GPUs, for the most part, do come with cooling fan or two. Or even three. But there are some low-profile/older GPUs, that doesn't have cooling fan on them.

MoBos, for the most part, doesn't need active cooling on their chipset/VRM. But some high-end MoBos may include fan as well.

RAM doesn't need any active cooling, since it already comes with heatsinks built-in. Though, heatsinks on RAM are also for show and doesn't serve actual practical purpose. But you can always install active cooling over RAM as well, if you like.

CPU may include CPU cooler in the package or it may not. Intel CPUs with K-suffix doesn't include CPU cooler, since K-suffix means CPU can be OCd and user is going to buy aftermarket cooler regardless. Essentially same is with AMD, where they don't include CPU cooler with high-end CPU. So, you have to buy aftermarket CPU cooler.

PC case fans depend on the PC case you buy. Some PC cases come with fans pre-installed. One, two, three or even four fans. But most of the times, users add additional fans for optimal cooling for entire PC.

where I will try to get an 80+ titanium PSU, I would also like the PSU to be able to supply more power and have more direct cables, presumably the modular cabling,

I tend to attach a lot of stuff to my PC, and things malfunction if you draw more power than the PSU supplies, eg if you use lots of power splitter cables. thus I want a PSU which can supply bigger amounts,
but I also want a PSU which isnt too noisy.
Today, it is the norm that PSUs are fully-modular. Mostly cheaper PSUs are as semi-modular or fully-wired.

Noise wise, Seasonic is well known of making the quietest PSUs out there, especially the PRIME lineup.
E.g Seasonic PRIME TX-1300 ATX 3.0, with average noise output below 15 dB(A),
review: https://hwbusters.com/psus/seasonic-prime-tx-1300-atx-v3-0-psu-review/

15 dB(A) is so quiet that you can't even hardly hear it (whisper level of quietness).

with the various solutions you discuss, is the way to attach the cooler well defined?

I dont want a cooling contraption and a mobo, and no idea where or how to attach it!
Read the included manual. All CPU coolers come with installation instructions. And there are even video tutorials out there that you can watch, if paper tutorial with pictures isn't enough.

the passive cooling sounds interesting, for making a totally silent PC,

is it viable to make a tower computer with the R9 7950X3D cpu, which is totally silent?

would I need to restrain certain usages, eg maybe only go for some graphics cards?
The heat output of R9 7950X3D on stock clocks is so high, that passive cooling on CPU is impossible to achieve.

Passive cooling is mainly used for low-end, or at best, mid-tier CPUs, which aren't powerhouses with lots of heat output. E.g office PC where you'd like peace and quiet to think. Gaming and workstation PCs output quite a lot of heat, thus, need active cooling.

rad = ?

my guess is "radiator" but I prefer to not guess!
Yes, "rad" means radiator.

not concerned about the look, more concerned about the crowdedness, would prefer something which uses less space,

but less noise is an overriding criterion,

as regards the case, I'd be looking to get the Phanteks Enthoo Pro Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Case which you recommended.
With full-tower ATX case, it would look better if it actually has something in it.

The finished build inside Phanteks Enthoo Pro TG, with big sized CPU cooler, would look similar to this;

263194.28b1a965b8df86507d7a00386eaf99fc.1600.jpg


Following, however (e.g micro-ATX MoBo inside full-tower ATX PC case), is almost sacrilegious, with so much empty/wasted space inside the PC case:

main-qimg-77c0ee71134913b7feeaeb0c5a879764-lq


could you suggest some combinations for a full system EXCLUDING monitor + keyboard + mouse + speakers involving:

Phanteks Enthoo Pro Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Case
R9 7950X3D cpu,

for an 80+ titanium PSU, with more power, modular cables, less noise, dont know if silence is an option,
Something to consider:
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D 4.2 GHz 16-Core Processor (£570.20 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 CPU Cooler (£104.99 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: Asus ProArt X670E-CREATOR WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard (£471.05 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Kingston FURY Beast 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5200 CL36 Memory (£119.34 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (£170.00 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Case (£132.63 @ Amazon UK)
PSU: Seasonic Prime ATX 3.0 TX-1600, 1600W 80+ Titanium, Full Modular, SSR-1600TR2 (£540.00 @ Amazon UK)

Total: £2108.21
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-01-07 02:56 GMT+0000


This is the core of the build.

Few words.
CPU is the one talked about. Same with CPU cooler, the "quiet" one.

I picked X670E chipset MoBo and based on what it offers (plenty of ports/slots), it should be to your likening, including it's appearance;
specs: https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/proart/proart-x670e-creator-wifi/

With RAM, i specifically looked it up from this MoBo's memory QVL list. This specific Kingston memory will work when all 4 RAM slots are populated. So, in the future, you can add more RAM if you like. But for time being, put in 2x 16 GB (32 GB) of RAM.

OS drive is best M.2 NVMe PCI-E 4.0 x4 SSD, Samsung 990 Pro. 2TB in size. If you need more space on your OS drive, you can buy 4 TB 990 Pro,
amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Heatsink-Internal-console-MZ-V9P4T0CW/dp/B0CBYZ6DD1

Oh, the SSD i put in is PCI-E 4.0, while that MoBo can support PCI-E 5.0 drives and there are PCI-E 5.0 drives out there as well. Like Teamgroup Cardea Z540,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/teamgroup-cardea-z540-ssd-review/2
amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CGR7RNCD

But PCI-E 5.0 drives are currently having high power draw issues and that Teamgroup Cardea Z540 needs dedicated heatsink to operate properly, but it doesn't come with one. And since PCI-E 5.0 drives just came out, there is no telling of their reliability. So, personally, i'd use known to be reliable Samsung drive, despite being a bit slower, than the fastest drive currently out there. Once Samsung comes out with PCI-E 5.0 drive and it reviews well, then i could suggest going with PCI-E 5.0 drive.


I did not include dedicated GPU in the build since you said that you can live without one. So, what GPU you go for, is completely up to you. But i made sure that you can put every GPU you like into there, including the very best: RTX 4090, without issues.

PC case is the one you picked. It comes with 2x 140mm fans, one front intake and another as rear exhaust. I suggest adding more fans, since PC case can support: 1x 140mm bottom intake, 2x 140mm front intake, 3x 140mm top exhaust and 1x 140mm rear exhaust. That's total of up to 7x 140mm fans. Of course, it supports 120mm fans as well, but 140mm fans are better, both in airflow and noise wise (less noise).

To get the best possible airflow with the least amount of noise, install as many fans in your case as possible. Preferably 140mm rather than 120mm since 140mm fan moves more air and does that more quietly than it's (same spec) 120mm counterpart.
While installing 5x to 7x fans in your PC may look like that you'd get extremely loud noise out of your PC, it's actually vice-versa. The trick is: that the more fans you have inside the case, the less each fan has to work to maintain the airflow and the less noise fans produce.
And that is also a main reason why i have 7x high-end case fans in my Skylake and Haswell builds (Corsair ML Pro LED and NZXT AER140 RGB). Mostly 140mm but few 120mm as well. Since i have that many case fans, i can keep all of my case fans spinning between 800 - 1100 RPM and thanks to this, my PCs are very quiet while still having proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases.


And to power all that, put in a true powerhouse of a PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0 (80+ Titanium).
Review: https://hwbusters.com/psus/seasonic-prime-tx-1600-atx-v3-0-psu-review/
Amazon (if the link above doesn't work): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seasonic-ATX-3-0-TX-1600-Titanium/dp/B0C571LRNB/

Now, 1.6kW PSU is a LOT, in terms of wattage capacity. But this is to ensure that you can put ANY GPU in the system, including RTX 4090, without issues. Going with lesser wattage PSU will limit your GPU options. And lesser wattage PSU also has less connections. Though, Seasonic PRIME TX-1300 ATX 3.0 (80+ Titanium) is also good option. A bit less wattage (1300W vs 1600W) and a bit cheaper too.

if I get a dedicated GPU, is it correct that this only generates a lot of heat if you run more demanding graphics software?
Essentially, yes. With higher heat output, there's also higher power draw by GPU. And depending on GPU, you may even hear the cooling fan noise.

would the dedicated GPU for the R9 7950X3D cpu be beyond the scope of passive coolers?
Like i said above, passive cooling is for low-performance components. GPUs, for the most part, are power hungry and require active cooling. Only way to get away with passive cooling on a GPU is when the GPU itself is weak and low-performing one.

Best passively cooled GPU there is, would be GTX 1650. Palit made one such GPU and heatsink on it is massive,
specs: https://www.palit.com/palit/vgapro.php?id=3494&lang=en

I doubt you can find it on sale at current date.
So, best option in terms of noise, is to get GPU that has semi-passive fans on it. E.g like MSI and their Zero Frozr feature, whereby when GPU is less than 60C hot, fans won't turn at all. This gives 0 dB(A) noise output. Hence why i personally have MSI GPU with Zero Frozr feature (for peace and quiet).

I'll go for 4 x 8GB then, I think my smartphone has 32GB! but that is probably also hard drive!
Well, you can, but i'd go with 2x 16GB instead. This leaves the option of increasing RAM capacity open, without you needing to replace the RAM.

Btw, no smart phone has 32 GB of RAM as of yet. At best, 12 GB. So, that 32 GB is most likely storage space.

these USB2 wifi dongles are junk?
There are some decent ones,
further reading: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-usb-wi-fi-adapters

But for the most part, not worth it. Then again, if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.

I am just a bit confused by what is meant by router,

currently I have a modem which connects to the phone socket, and a USB wireless dongle at a USB hub attached to a USB3 card.

when you say wifi router, are you referring to the modem, or the USB dongle, or relaying gizmos between modem and dongle?

difference-between-modem-and-router-in-home-wifi.webp


Nowadays, most routers include the modem part as well, thus, only one device. E.g my Cisco is also modem/router, one device for all.

can you show a photo of how so many M.2 slots might be arranged on a mobo
M.2 slots locations on the Asus MoBo i put in the build suggestion:

pd.png


It has 4x M.2 slots;
1st one just below CPU socket and above 1st PCI-E x16 slot. Populated by a drive on the picture.
2nd one just right from the 2nd PCI-E x16 slot.
3rd and 4th ones are between 2nd and 3rd PCI-E x16 slots, essentially back-to-back at each other.

Another option (world-class) is this:

m2-02-max.png


This E-ATX MoBo has 7x M.2 slots, color coded with yellow-ish hue on the picture.
MoBo: MSI MEG Z790 GODLIKE MAX: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-Z790-GODLIKE-MAX
 

Richard1234

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with the earlier URL on M.2, it talks of mSATA, the SATA I am familiar with is are these sockets on my 2010 mobo:

http://www.directemails.info/tom/sata.jpg

is mSATA something different?

also are magnetic drives now obsolete?

It should be, where;
B - Byte
b - bit

I write bytes with capital letters, e.g: 250 MB, 500 GB, 2 TB.
And bits in normal letters, e.g: 500 Mbit/s, 2 Gbit/s. But writing it in 500 Mb/s or 2 Gb/s is also correct, albeit harder to differentiate between 500 Mb/s and 500 MB/s. Hence why i write out the "bit" part: 500 Mbit/s.

As of out there, in the web, it is easy to make a typo and write 500 MB/s when intention was 500 Mb/s. So, better to confirm the value with e.g online calculator, like this one,
link: https://www.checkyourmath.com/convert/data_rates/index.php
putting "bit" instead of "b" would greatly disambiguate!

the time spent disambiguating when writing is often much less than the time spent trying to decipher when reading some text!

Data capacity between Bytes is by 1024. Whereby: 1 MegaByte = 1024 KiloByte. Binary system.
Data rate between bits is by 1000. Whereby: 1 Kilobit per second = 1000 bits per second. Decimal system.
Dara rate between Bytes and bits is by 8. Whereby: 1 Byte per second = 8 bits per second. Binary system.


R9 7950X3D by default is 120W CPU. R9 7950X by default is 170W CPU. That's 50W difference on stock clocks. So, in terms of heat production, R9 7950X3D is better (producing less heat on average). But when both boost to up to 5.7 Ghz, both output the same heat levels.

that's a win win then, more power less heat!

is that boost by overclocking?
is it done in the "early startup", ie before you boot the OS?

also where you talk of overclocking, could you also underclock?

in order to say reduce heat and power when not doing cpu or graphics intensive things, eg if you are just reading and writing emails, you need much less cpu and graphics power.

eg to underclock both the cpu and GPU,

"GPU" must be todays jargon for what in my era were called "graphics cards"?

in my era it was the ATi Radeon! their chimp and butterfly demo with the jungle music was superb!


Here, PSU tier list,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

It's a bit outdated since it doesn't include the latest ATX 3.0 PSUs. When to include ATX 3.0 PSUs as well, then HardwareBusters have nice roundup,
link: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atx-v3-0-pcie-5-0-ready-psus-picks-2023-hardware-busters/


Every PSU has internal fan in it, unless specifically stated otherwise. Like Seasonic PRIME Fanless PX,
specs: https://seasonic.com/prime-fanless-px

this fanless one, it says 80+ Platinum, apart from the efficiency being lower than 80+ titanium, will that work the same as an 80+ titanium,

it says

Form FactorIntel ATX 12 V

will that work with AMDs, why the "Intel" prefix?

it appears to say 500Watts, so maybe its not sufficient for the config you give later, but maybe I can consider it if and when I build another test system.

when I checked on amazon, they had a 700Watt fanless version:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seasonic-Fanless-TX-700-PC-home-charger/dp/B087Z71TBY

I dont know what the highest power fanless one would be?



For the rest of the PC cooling, it is based on individual components.
GPUs, for the most part, do come with cooling fan or two. Or even three. But there are some low-profile/older GPUs, that doesn't have cooling fan on them.

MoBos, for the most part, doesn't need active cooling on their chipset/VRM. But some high-end MoBos may include fan as well.

RAM doesn't need any active cooling, since it already comes with heatsinks built-in. Though, heatsinks on RAM are also for show and doesn't serve actual practical purpose. But you can always install active cooling over RAM as well, if you like.

CPU may include CPU cooler in the package or it may not. Intel CPUs with K-suffix doesn't include CPU cooler, since K-suffix means CPU can be OCd and user is going to buy aftermarket cooler regardless. Essentially same is with AMD, where they don't include CPU cooler with high-end CPU. So, you have to buy aftermarket CPU cooler.

PC case fans depend on the PC case you buy. Some PC cases come with fans pre-installed. One, two, three or even four fans. But most of the times, users add additional fans for optimal cooling for entire PC.


Today, it is the norm that PSUs are fully-modular. Mostly cheaper PSUs are as semi-modular or fully-wired.

Noise wise, Seasonic is well known of making the quietest PSUs out there, especially the PRIME lineup.
E.g Seasonic PRIME TX-1300 ATX 3.0, with average noise output below 15 dB(A),
review: https://hwbusters.com/psus/seasonic-prime-tx-1300-atx-v3-0-psu-review/

15 dB(A) is so quiet that you can't even hardly hear it (whisper level of quietness).

the 1600 one you give later with the full system, the amazon UK URL says "fan control in fanless mode"
how would that work, and does the 1300 have that?

Read the included manual. All CPU coolers come with installation instructions. And there are even video tutorials out there that you can watch, if paper tutorial with pictures isn't enough.


The heat output of R9 7950X3D on stock clocks is so high, that passive cooling on CPU is impossible to achieve.

Passive cooling is mainly used for low-end, or at best, mid-tier CPUs, which aren't powerhouses with lots of heat output. E.g office PC where you'd like peace and quiet to think. Gaming and workstation PCs output quite a lot of heat, thus, need active cooling.

I have to forget passive cooling then for the high spec machine, but maybe consider it for a later low spec machine, which would be built using totally different principles!

Yes, "rad" means radiator.


With full-tower ATX case, it would look better if it actually has something in it.

The finished build inside Phanteks Enthoo Pro TG, with big sized CPU cooler, would look similar to this;

263194.28b1a965b8df86507d7a00386eaf99fc.1600.jpg

those sideways placed SSDs looks like an efficient idea, easy to reach them also!

the more recent mobo photos seem to have covers for the mobo, my mobos from 2010 and earlier had no covers!

is this the new thing, to have covers over all the zones of the mobo?


Following, however (e.g micro-ATX MoBo inside full-tower ATX PC case), is almost sacrilegious, with so much empty/wasted space inside the PC case:


main-qimg-77c0ee71134913b7feeaeb0c5a879764-lq

you could fit 4 mobos in that!


I was thinking more of clutter obscuring the mobo, rather than beyond it! ie although space is wasted with the above photo, that top right zone of the mobo could potentially get eclipsed by cables and cards!

whistles because of the price!

the PSU amazon UK link says "Fan Control in Fanless Mode", what is that about?

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-01-07 02:56 GMT+0000


This is the core of the build.

Few words.
CPU is the one talked about. Same with CPU cooler, the "quiet" one.

I picked X670E chipset MoBo and based on what it offers (plenty of ports/slots), it should be to your likening, including it's appearance;
specs: https://www.asus.com/motherboards-components/motherboards/proart/proart-x670e-creator-wifi/

With RAM, i specifically looked it up from this MoBo's memory QVL list. This specific Kingston memory will work when all 4 RAM slots are populated. So, in the future, you can add more RAM if you like. But for time being, put in 2x 16 GB (32 GB) of RAM.

but for better performance, is it best if all 4 memory cards are identical products?

is there a danger that I buy 2 x 16GB now, but then a year later, that product is no longer available, and the next 2 x 16GB are a different product?

maybe I should just get 4 x 16GB now. I have sometimes gotten stranded with purchases by not buying everything up front, eg I bought a superb lawn strimmer by Qualcast, but eventually they got bought out by Bosch, and the rechargeable battery is no longer produced, also no cloned ones exist, some batteries have cloned versions. luckily I bought a second hand battery on ebay which is good. I need spare batteries, that way if the one runs out whilst mowing, I can just substitute immediately with a fully charged one. I actually had 2, with a 2nd identical one from a Qualcast hedge trimmer, Qualcast were better than Bosch, and their batteries were interchangeable, but one of the 2 eventually wore out, running out of charge quickly. After that experience, in future I will buy spare proprietory batteries immediately after buying a product.

buying 2 x 16G potentially runs this same risk, unless you can mix and match different brands for same performance.

the 2 x 16G is a mere 5.7% of the total cost, so getting 4 x 16G is marginally more expensive!

also is 4 x 8G faster than 2 x 16G?


OS drive is best M.2 NVMe PCI-E 4.0 x4 SSD, Samsung 990 Pro. 2TB in size. If you need more space on your OS drive, you can buy 4 TB 990 Pro,
amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Heatsink-Internal-console-MZ-V9P4T0CW/dp/B0CBYZ6DD1

I prefer to only have the multiboot OSes on the system drive, thus 2TB or even 1TB is plenty.

because the OS drive is the most used, and with magnetic at least can wear out the first. with IDE drives, the filesystem config begins with the first sector, which describes the top level 4 drives say on XP, where one of the 4 can be a zone of further logical volumes. thus the first sector is accessed with every boot session, eg if you boot up twice a day, after 2 years it has been accessed some 1400 times. the first sector eventually wore out with one Samsung magnetic IDE drive for my HP Pavilion XP system. where the sector had read errors and also was unwriteable, thus the drive was now junk, but luckily the data could be salvaged. the first sector did read, but I deciphered it manually and it was incoherent data, and manual modifications got write errors for writing. where rereads were the original defective data. I could write other sectors successfully.

SSD perhaps is more robust to wear and tear as no moving parts (other than electrons).

this is where having multiple M.2 sockets is interesting, as I could go for a smaller one for the OS, and then larger ones for data.

I need to occasionally backup drives to ones which are otherwise disconnected to minimise wear and tear.

thus I dont want drives which are too ginormous, but the faster M.2 speed would mitigate, but I may need to backup to a slower technology where that other write speed becomes the problem. backing up my laptop's drive took 13.5 hrs.

also I am sceptical about continually connecting and disconnecting card like sockets, because I had a dashcam where in one era I would copy new intercity journeys or problematic journeys by removing the SD card, and inserting it in a card reader, as that also allowed me to directly delete the movie files. eventually the card contacts wore out where the dashcam malfunctioned with trashed images. Testing out a brand new card, no problem at all. And now I only copied via the USB cable, and had to reformat to delete, and no problems for several years.

with credit card chip and pin also, before the advent of contactless cards, the chip of my main credit card eventually wore out from continual insertion and removal from card readers. if you use card readers for credit cards, you will see frictional wear marks on the chip!

USB sockets are useful in this respect, because if the USB socket wears out, you can just junk the cable and hub, not the gizmo or computer!


Oh, the SSD i put in is PCI-E 4.0, while that MoBo can support PCI-E 5.0 drives and there are PCI-E 5.0 drives out there as well. Like Teamgroup Cardea Z540,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/teamgroup-cardea-z540-ssd-review/2
amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CGR7RNCD

But PCI-E 5.0 drives are currently having high power draw issues and that Teamgroup Cardea Z540 needs dedicated heatsink to operate properly, but it doesn't come with one. And since PCI-E 5.0 drives just came out, there is no telling of their reliability. So, personally, i'd use known to be reliable Samsung drive, despite being a bit slower, than the fastest drive currently out there. Once Samsung comes out with PCI-E 5.0 drive and it reviews well, then i could suggest going with PCI-E 5.0 drive.
its best to only buy stabilised technologies! also the top end stuff can have a premium price, with time not only does the technology stabilise but also the price plunges with economies of scale.

Samsung have a reputation for incautious engineering, eg their smartphones which went into meltdown, where they hadnt allowed for the extra heat caused by increased data flows and processing. I compared Sony vs Samsung rechargeable AA batteries, and all Sonies were above the spec, whereas with the samsung ones, some were below, some above. Looked like Sony had better quality assurance, whereas Samsung were just assuring the average! Samsung stuff is great, but they dont understand engineering guarantees. Thus I wouldnt trust new Samsung technology, but the established stuff is good.

quality engineering is eg if you build a bridge with say a 5 ton limit, to check the bridge can withstand the entire bridge jammed with 7.5 ton vehicles! this involves 2 concepts: leeway and guarantee. where quality engineering applies leeway to a guarantee.


Teslas in the UK used to be more than £45000, but several months ago dropped to £20000.

in any case I would gladly accept say a 10% reduction in performance for a 50% reduction in price!

a top end item is always a prototype, eg even now Teslas are experiencing software problems, with remote updates.

with Windows, it is best to stock up with some extra licensed copies when they release the next version, as that will be the most stabilised one. eg earlier XPs need SP2 (SP3?) also for some software.

human perception is elastic, eg if you have a top end hifi, it sounds great, later you get a cheap radio, initially it sounds dreadful, but eventually your mind adapts and it sounds just fine! similarly with cameras, as a teenager I had a cheap agfamatic, and the photo prints can be really superb, more grainy than say 35mm, but the graininess gives an extra atmosphere! when I first got glasses, my left eye is short sighted, right eye longsighted, and the 2 images were different sizes! where I was seeing double, but after some weeks the 2 images merged perfectly! today if I put on or remove the glasses, bothways the 2 images merge perfectly instantly. ie the visual perception even is elastic as regards image size.

this elasticity means say a 10% boost probably wont be noticed. if you drive at 30mph, then go to a 50mph road, 50mph seems fast, but if you drive at 70mph, then go to a 50mph road, it seems really slow!


I did not include dedicated GPU in the build since you said that you can live without one. So, what GPU you go for, is completely up to you. But i made sure that you can put every GPU you like into there, including the very best: RTX 4090, without issues.

once I have decided, I will try it without the outer GPU, and see how that fares. if its good enough without the GPU, then if and when I ever get to trying to program a GPU, at that point buy one. So far have only programmed graphics pixel by pixel using the VESA interface, which is available on all PCs, where you query the system for supported graphics modes, and then you can activate one, perhaps interactively via the 1980s hardware supplied text. I implemented some of my own fixed width and height fonts, which I designed pixel by pixel using ascii art for all keyboard characters. the hardware even in 2010 was so fast that even pixel by pixel is impressive speed. for low res, hand designed fonts are best, because rescaling wont be pixel perfect.

PC case is the one you picked. It comes with 2x 140mm fans, one front intake and another as rear exhaust. I suggest adding more fans, since PC case can support: 1x 140mm bottom intake, 2x 140mm front intake, 3x 140mm top exhaust and 1x 140mm rear exhaust. That's total of up to 7x 140mm fans. Of course, it supports 120mm fans as well, but 140mm fans are better, both in airflow and noise wise (less noise).

do I have to support the case at 4 corners for the max amount?

To get the best possible airflow with the least amount of noise, install as many fans in your case as possible. Preferably 140mm rather than 120mm since 140mm fan moves more air and does that more quietly than it's (same spec) 120mm counterpart.

the outer dimensions of 120mm and 140mm are the same?

While installing 5x to 7x fans in your PC may look like that you'd get extremely loud noise out of your PC, it's actually vice-versa. The trick is: that the more fans you have inside the case, the less each fan has to work to maintain the airflow and the less noise fans produce.
And that is also a main reason why i have 7x high-end case fans in my Skylake and Haswell builds (Corsair ML Pro LED and NZXT AER140 RGB). Mostly 140mm but few 120mm as well. Since i have that many case fans, i can keep all of my case fans spinning between 800 - 1100 RPM and thanks to this, my PCs are very quiet while still having proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases.
with my recent PCs, I have always left the main side panel off! I dont know if that also helps cooling?
or if it is inadvisable?

a kind of open air mobo!

any recommendation on specific 140mm fans which make less noise?

with the Amiga computer, the mobos were horizontal, I think horizontality is better for heat dissipation, as heat rises.

the vertical arrangement of towers seems inefficient for heat loss!

my existing 2010 PC has the graphics card horizontal, but low down in the tower, so the heat will rise to other parts. I suppose most of it doesnt have stuff above it.

And to power all that, put in a true powerhouse of a PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1600 ATX 3.0 (80+ Titanium).
Review: https://hwbusters.com/psus/seasonic-prime-tx-1600-atx-v3-0-psu-review/
Amazon (if the link above doesn't work): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seasonic-ATX-3-0-TX-1600-Titanium/dp/B0C571LRNB/

Now, 1.6kW PSU is a LOT, in terms of wattage capacity. But this is to ensure that you can put ANY GPU in the system, including RTX 4090, without issues. Going with lesser wattage PSU will limit your GPU options. And lesser wattage PSU also has less connections.
higher wattage having more connections is an interesting point, I like as many as possible! because I feel if I attach cables directly, the PSU has been designed to handle that, whereas power splitters could overload the PSU.

the 1300 review page mentions a tx 1600 and a px 1600, what is the headline difference between the tx-1600 and the px-1600?

Though, Seasonic PRIME TX-1300 ATX 3.0 (80+ Titanium) is also good option. A bit less wattage (1300W vs 1600W) and a bit cheaper too.


Essentially, yes. With higher heat output, there's also higher power draw by GPU. And depending on GPU, you may even hear the cooling fan noise.


Like i said above, passive cooling is for low-performance components. GPUs, for the most part, are power hungry and require active cooling. Only way to get away with passive cooling on a GPU is when the GPU itself is weak and low-performing one.

Best passively cooled GPU there is, would be GTX 1650. Palit made one such GPU and heatsink on it is massive,
specs: https://www.palit.com/palit/vgapro.php?id=3494&lang=en

I doubt you can find it on sale at current date.
So, best option in terms of noise, is to get GPU that has semi-passive fans on it. E.g like MSI and their Zero Frozr feature, whereby when GPU is less than 60C hot, fans won't turn at all. This gives 0 dB(A) noise output. Hence why i personally have MSI GPU with Zero Frozr feature (for peace and quiet).

adaptive heat control is best, like a thermostat! what you want is the heat control to activate when the heat reaches a safe margin from being problematic.

that way when the system is idle, the heat control can power down.

Well, you can, but i'd go with 2x 16GB instead. This leaves the option of increasing RAM capacity open, without you needing to replace the RAM.

as mentioned earlier, is there a risk that when you eventually buy the next 2 x 16GB, you wont be able to buy the same product as the earlier 2, or even it could be a later revision?


Btw, no smart phone has 32 GB of RAM as of yet. At best, 12 GB. So, that 32 GB is most likely storage space.

There are some decent ones,
further reading: https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-usb-wi-fi-adapters

But for the most part, not worth it. Then again, if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.



difference-between-modem-and-router-in-home-wifi.webp


Nowadays, most routers include the modem part as well, thus, only one device. E.g my Cisco is also modem/router, one device for all.

if you have a relay one, as that isnt connected to a PC, how does it determine which signal to relay, ie your modem and not say your neighbours?

I think most people dont use networks, but all their PCs or smartphones will go via the broadband modem to the internet.


M.2 slots locations on the Asus MoBo i put in the build suggestion:

pd.png


It has 4x M.2 slots;
1st one just below CPU socket and above 1st PCI-E x16 slot. Populated by a drive on the picture.
2nd one just right from the 2nd PCI-E x16 slot.
3rd and 4th ones are between 2nd and 3rd PCI-E x16 slots, essentially back-to-back at each other.

Another option (world-class) is this:

m2-02-max.png


This E-ATX MoBo has 7x M.2 slots, color coded with yellow-ish hue on the picture.
MoBo: MSI MEG Z790 GODLIKE MAX: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-Z790-GODLIKE-MAX

having the 7 x M.2 slots sounds useful,

this specific mobo looks like for Intel cpus, is there a version which would work with the aforementioned AMD cpu?

the config you gave earlier was for Asus, but you said further back in time you preferred MSI but that Asus was also good.


can you clarify what E-ATX is versus ATX, that tower case would fit an E-ATX,

with really expensive hardware, one danger is all hardware drifts steadily to obsolescence over the years, and it can be better to accept a bit of drift, eg with cars to go for 2 year old cars, then it is still very modern but also much cheaper than brand new. the technology will still be way ahead of most people's stuff.

the person who is ahead, you can overtake them in 3 years time buying 2 year old technology, where they are stuck with their purchase because of the price!

most people wont know the difference between top end and high end! I certainly dont, without a lot of research I have no idea which is better!


very selectively I will pay higher prices, but there needs to be a lot of gain for the extra cost. with some things, I buy cheapest possible first, to learn which things are worth paying for, then I buy an expensive item or config in a very selective way. if you blindly buy top end, there might be a lot of stuff you never use, and after some years if you do, its already obsolete! I bought a version of Adobe's Creative Suite which is a ton of programs, but the only ones I use are Photoshop and Adobe Acrobat X Pro, which has inbuilt OCR, where you can say scan a newspaper article and then do the OCR, and then cut and paste the text! you could use some other OCR software, but this way is super convenient! it also handles non english fonts.

anyway, allowing the right amount of drift really pays off, you spend less money, get more stable products, and the equipment will be better than most people's. also more options available for accessories, also easier to sell it on ebay because cheaper.

I bought a camera for £550, 2 years later it was something like £250 brand new.
 

Aeacus

Titan
Ambassador
is mSATA something different?
Yes.

mSATA was created in 2011 to reduce physical size in portable devices, compared to standard 2.5" SATA drives.

mSATA is similar in appearance as is M.2, but drive and socket are bigger and you can't put mSATA drive into M.2 slot.

M.2 was created in 2013 and is spiritual successor of mSATA. M.2 slot is smaller, drive itself has 4 different sizes (different length) and M.2 also supports PCI-E, SATA and USB. While mSATA supports only SATA and mSATA drives are only in one size: 30.1mm x 26.8mm.

At current moment mSATA is essentially obsolete. You may find mSATA in some older portable devices manufactured in 2012-2014 but current modern portable devices use M.2 drives.

also are magnetic drives now obsolete?
Not quite, but close to it. Also, depends on usage scenario.

HDDs have the cheaper price per GB. And one HDD can be as big as 22TB. 22TB is essentially max what one HDD can house in itself. Now, on consumer aspect, that is quite a lot, considering that consumer SSD that you can buy, is only up to 8TB in size. But if you look towards workstation/server SSDs, then those go up to 100TB in size.

* Price wise, HDD is still the cheapest storage solution.
* Power consumption wise, SSD, namely M.2 SSD is the best solution.
* Performance wise (read/write speeds) HDDs are the slowest, followed by SATA SSD and M.2 PCI-E NVMe SSDs are the fastest.
* Noise wise, SSD is king, since it has 0 moving parts.
* Physical size wise, 3.5" HDD is worst, followed by 2.5" HDD/SSD and M.2 SSD is the smallest.
* Temperature wise, HDD actually is better. Now, 2.5" SSD may run cooler than 3.5" HDD but i've seen 2.5" SSDs to run very hot as well (mostly due to cost-cutting methods used in manufacturing). M.2 drives run quite hot compared to 3.5" HDDs. E.g my 970 Evo Plus OS drive idles at 45C. While on load, it's temperature can rise to ~60C. Of course, that without any heatsink or active cooling on it. But latest PCI-E 5.0 M.2 drives do need heatsink and maybe even active cooling, to keep them below ~75C for normal operation.
* Reliability wise, SSDs are more reliable than HDDs. Since strong magetic field is enough to wipe the data on HDD. Same is when HDD sustains impact damage (e.g falls to the floor). SSDs aren't susceptible to either of the two. But with SDDs, there is one caveat in terms or reliability. Due to the nature of NAND cells, they have fixed write amounts, until cell can't be written on anymore. If this happens, data still remains on SSD, but SSD turns into read-only drive. E.g like CD/DVD disc. Of course, SSDs can monitor their read/write cycles and you can tell when the read/write cycles are up, so you can replace the drive. This is known as TBW (TeraBytes Written).

E.g my 970 Evo Plus 2TB M.2 PCI-E 3.0 NVMe SSD has endurance rating of: 1200 TBW. Meaning that the drive can sustain 1200 TB worth of data written on to it over time. 970 Evo Plus i have, is almost 2 years old and during that time, it has collected 8870 Power On Hours, with 731 Power On Count and 16981 GB (17 TB) Written. That makes ~8.5 TB written per year. And since my drive endurance is 1200 TB written, it would take me 141 years :eek:, before i reach the point of where the drive endurance is up and i need to buy a new drive. :)

As of HDD usage today in home situation, many use HDDs as NAS storage. I don't use HDDs anymore, instead, i've replaced all my HDDs with SSDs due to faster read/write speeds.

is that boost by overclocking?
is it done in the "early startup", ie before you boot the OS?
Turbo Boost isn't overclocking. Instead it is used by CPU whenever CPU thinks it needs more compute power, in terms of higher frequency.

In a similar sense, car gasoline engine RPM at idle is ~1500 RPM. If you want to get moving or drive faster, you increase the engine RPM to e.g 3000 RPM.

also where you talk of overclocking, could you also underclock?

in order to say reduce heat and power when not doing cpu or graphics intensive things, eg if you are just reading and writing emails, you need much less cpu and graphics power.

eg to underclock both the cpu and GPU,
Yes, you can underclock both the CPU and GPU as well but CPU and GPU by default, are already doing that.

For example, i have i5-6600K, which base frequency is 3.5 Ghz and it can Turbo up to 3.9 Ghz.
Now, my CPU doesn't run at 3.5 Ghz all the time, instead, CPU is smart and when CPU sees that it doesn't have any meaningful load on it, CPU itself downclocks. Mine downclocks as low as 0.8 Ghz. But my CPU currently hovers around 0.8 Ghz to 1.1 Ghz while i'm currently typing this reply.
Then again, i don't have any meaningful load on my CPU either. Just my Firefox browser open, with one tab here in TH forums to write a reply, another tab for Youtube to listen nice background music while typing this and 1-2 more tabs open for reserach regarding this reply.

Same is with my GPU: MSI GTX 1660 Ti Gaming X 6G, which has base clock of 1500 Mhz and boost clock of 1875 Mhz. Currently, my GPU idles around with 400 Mhz clocks.

Now, you can downclock on your own as well, but you can't do it "adaptive" as CPU and GPU do it on their own. Instead, people ususally downclock to a fixed freqency, which CPU/GPU must keep regardless the workload on it. I, personally, do not favor downclock by user. Sure, it may keep the temperatures and power consumption of CPU/GPU low, compared to the default settings of a CPU/GPU (that adaptive frequency change), but why restrict CPU/GPU to certain state where it is clear that CPU/GPU needs higher frequency depending on a workload.

In a similar sense, car gasoline engine. Let's say the car engine operating RPM for normal drive is 1000-4000 RPM. Whereby car engine itself, more-or-less, decides what RPM it needs to run at, to maintain different speeds.
Now with "downclocking" you'd force the car engine to run at 1500 RPM, regardless what kind of speed you drive at. Sure, you keep the car engine to use less gasoline but for the engine itself, it is detrimental when it can't rev up when it needs to.

Same goes with overclocking as well, both CPU and GPU. Now, CPU itself decides when to increase the frequency, depending on a load on it. E.g my CPU can boost it's frequency up to 3.9 Ghz, depending on the load on it. So, i'd rather let the CPU decide when it needs the extra performance.
Overclocking, in the other hand, will force the CPU to run at fixed frequency, often at higher clocks than what CPU turbo clocks are. E.g for my CPU, turbo is up to 3.9 Ghz, while i could overclock it to 4.2 Ghz. And CPU must keep the overclock at all times, regardless if it actually needs the increased performance output or not. Not it only creates more heat and consumes more power as well, it will also reduce CPU lifespan considerably. So, other than bragging rights, i don't see why to overclock CPU. Same is with GPU.

In similar sense, car gasoline engine. With "overclocking", you'd set the car engine at 5000 RPM, regardless the speed you drive at or even when idling around. Engine must keep 5000 RPM at all times. It uses far more gasoline and some may argue that they like to hear their engine roaring at all times. But it will wear out car engine far faster.

So, option is open do underclock/overclock CPU/GPU, but i'd rather let CPU/GPU to decide when it needs to underclock/turbo based on the workload on it, rather than forcing it to keep specific frequency 24/7.

"GPU" must be todays jargon for what in my era were called "graphics cards"?

in my era it was the ATi Radeon! their chimp and butterfly demo with the jungle music was superb!
GPU = Graphics Processing Unit.

ATI Radeon is just one GPU brand. Now defunct as well. Bought by AMD.

this fanless one, it says 80+ Platinum, apart from the efficiency being lower than 80+ titanium, will that work the same as an 80+ titanium,
Yes.

it says

Form FactorIntel ATX 12 V

will that work with AMDs, why the "Intel" prefix?
Why Intel prefix? Well, it was Intel who released the ATX specification in 1995, to establish universal power connectors and PSU sprcifications for all desktop PCs. Before that, everyone did their own thing.

In a similar sense, it's like EU who is working towards universalt power connector on smart phones: USB type-C. Before that, each and every mobile phone had their own, proprietary power connector. Apple is still fighting against it.

And yes, it will work with AMD as well.

I dont know what the highest power fanless one would be?
700W unit is tops for fanless PSU.

the 1600 one you give later with the full system, the amazon UK URL says "fan control in fanless mode"
how would that work, and does the 1300 have that?
All Seasonic PRIME PSUs have fanless mode for them.

What it means, is that there is button on the back side of the PSU, from where you can choose between 2 fan modes:
* normal - fan spins all the time, regardless the load on PSU
* fanless - fan doesn't spin at all, until load on PSU is 50% and more

Digital Hybrid Fan control
Seasonic’s vast experience in designing the most silent and efficient power supplies on the market was translated into the development of Hybrid Mode; a state-of-the-art digital fan control that enables users to keep the overall fan noise at the lowest possible level.
Source (scroll down about half-way): https://seasonic.com/atx3-prime-tx

the more recent mobo photos seem to have covers for the mobo, my mobos from 2010 and earlier had no covers!

is this the new thing, to have covers over all the zones of the mobo?
Those M.2 covers by MoBo manufacturers is a new trend and idea is to give more "clean" look for a MoBo. Those can also act as M.2 heatsinks, but in reality, those M.2 covers are poor ones and do less in terms of dissipating heat. Those tend to keep the heat trapped in instead. Also, when M.2 drive does need heatsink, it comes with one.

E.g 990 Pro 1TB with heatsink: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v9p1t0cw

Current day gaming consoles (PS5, Xbox) can use M.2 drives as well. But since airflow in gaming consoles is essentially 0, M.2 drives in there need dedicated heatsink. In desktop PCs, M.2 drives are mounted on MoBo and can cool themselves due to the airflow inside the PC. Thus, heatsink isn't crucial for M.2 drive, e.g 990 Pro. Though, it depends on M.2 drive since some drives are hotter running and come with heatsink regardless.

So, either use M.2 drive with dedicated heatsink, if it comes with one. Or use bare drive, without hiding it under MoBo M.2 cover.
E.g my two M.2 drives are bare and can live just fine, by also being part of the airflow inside my PC.

One drive just above the GPU, another one below it:

dshKhdC.jpg


I was thinking more of clutter obscuring the mobo, rather than beyond it! ie although space is wasted with the above photo, that top right zone of the mobo could potentially get eclipsed by cables and cards!
Well, i linked you how the full build would look like in the Phanteks Enthoo Pro TG case. Looks quite nice in my opinion.

And here's how my build looks like in a full-tower ATX case:

oeNWFKX.jpg


whistles because of the price!
:cheese:

Quality costs money.

but for better performance, is it best if all 4 memory cards are identical products?

is there a danger that I buy 2 x 16GB now, but then a year later, that product is no longer available, and the next 2 x 16GB are a different product?

maybe I should just get 4 x 16GB now.
For RAM to work fine, all DIMMs must be identical and also sold as a set, where they come in one, sealed package.

When RAM DIMMs are made; same make, model, speed, CL and timings RAMs are tested with each other and those sticks that get along well are put into sets. First set to be made is the set of 8x RAM sticks and sold as 8x RAM sticks in a set (e.g 8x 8GB, total of 64GB). If the set of 8 doesn't work, it's divided into half which makes up two sets of 4. If the 4x RAM sticks do work together, the are sold as 4x RAM sticks in a set (e.g 4x 8GB, total of 32GB). But if the set of 4 doesn't work, it's again divided into half, making two sets of 2. Two RAM sticks that work well with each other are sold as 2x RAM sticks in a set (e.g 2x 8GB, total of 16GB). Those RAM sticks that doesn't want to work together at all are sold as single RAM sticks.

So, in terms of populating all RAM slots, best course of action is to buy a set of 4x RAM sticks. This gives you a guarantee that all RAM sticks will work together nicely.

Now, what i suggested, is cost saving method, where you 1st buy 2x RAM sticks and at later time, buy another 2x RAM sticks, of identical RAM. Though, this course of action does have downside, where there is a risk that new RAM will not work with old RAM. So, there is some risk taking.

This is what i had to do, because i didn't have enough money to buy a set of 4x RAM sticks off the bat. I had to take this risk. Of course, i did my level best to ensure that when i buy the other 2x RAM sticks at later date, chances that all 4x RAM sticks work together are high, still, risk remained. I got lucky and got all my 4x identical RAM sticks working without issues.

If you do have money to buy 4x RAM sticks off the bat, this is the best option. Then you don't have to worry about RAM sticks working together (like i had to, when i bought 2x sticks later on).

also is 4 x 8G faster than 2 x 16G?
Yes.

Here's comparison between two RAM sets, where on the left, there is 4x 4GB and on the right is 2x 8GB. While total amount is same (16GB) and so is CAS Latency (15) and frequency (3000 Mhz),
link: https://ram.userbenchmark.com/Compa...engeance-LPX-DDR4-3000-C15-2x8GB/m43906vs3546

Note: the Kingston 4x 4GB is the very same RAM i currently have in my Skylake build.

RAM latency is lower for 4x 8GB than 2x 16GB, meaning that CPU can access data in 4x 8GB RAM sticks faster than in 2x 16GB sticks.

In similar sense, let's say you have 4x books of 200 pages and 2x books of 400 pages. And you can access all books at the same time.
Now, to find a word at specific location, it takes less time to access 4x 200 page books at the same time, than to access 2x 400 page books, since you have to scroll through all pages from the start.

Of course, for some applications, it doesn't matter if you have 4x 8GB or 2x 16GB, while for others, it does matter.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhMYmEu8gks

do I have to support the case at 4 corners for the max amount?
I don't understand this question. :??:

PC case can stand on it's own, so, you don't need it to bolt it down to the floor/wall. If this is what you asked for.

the outer dimensions of 120mm and 140mm are the same?
No.

For PC case fan, those come in standard dimensions. Two most commonly used are:
* 120mm fan = 120mm x 120mm x 25mm
* 140mm fan = 140mm x 140mm x 25mm

Others include:
* 80mm fan = 80mm x 80mm x 25mm
* 92mm fan = 92mm x 92mm x 25mm
* 200mm fan = 200mm x 200mm x 30mm

Then, there are "slim" fans as well, whereby their thickness isn't 25mm but instead 15mm, e.g:
* 120mm slim fan = 120mm x 120mm x 15mm

And also there are fans which physically are bigger but can mount on smaller mounts, given there's enough space to put the fan. Such fans are usually used on CPU coolers and by e.g Noctua or Be Quiet.
E.g: Noctua NF-A15 HS-PWM chromax.black = 140mm x 150mm x 25mm but has mounting holes at 105x105mm locations, meaning it can be mounted where standard 120mm fan can go (IF there's enough free space around the fan),
specs: https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a15-hs-pwm-chromax-black-swap/specification

with my recent PCs, I have always left the main side panel off! I dont know if that also helps cooling?
or if it is inadvisable?

a kind of open air mobo!
Bad idea, unless you have 0 case fans inside the PC and no active cooling, whereby you need to rely on natural convection.

Having PC components inside closed "box" is to keep the sensitive electronics out of harms way. And not to overhear the components, the "box" has grille on many sides, whereby one can install fans, to create an airflow path inside the PC.

Airflow rule of thumb is: front and bottom - intake; top and read - exhaust. This also helps the natural convection of where hot air rises.

any recommendation on specific 140mm fans which make less noise?
Answer me this: What is the point of PC fan?
* Is it to: create as less noise as possible?
* Or is it to: cool the components?

The fans i have, are: Corsair ML140 Pro LED mag-lev bearing fans.
Sure, ML140 Pro fans have premium price but they also have mag-lev bearing (one of the few fans that have it) and very good balance between airflow (CFM) and static pressure (mmH2O).

These fans come in as 120mm and 140mm versions and with either red, blue, white LED or no LED at all;
red LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050047-WW
blue LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050048-WW
white LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050046-WW
no LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...Levitation-Fans/ml-pro-config/p/CO-9050045-WW

pcpp: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/D34NnQ,cfyxFT,sYNypg,ycH48d/

Here are the pros and cons of Corsair ML140 Pro LED fans:
Pros
* great airflow (20 - 97 CFM)
* great static pressure (0.2 - 3.0 mmH2O)
* great RPM range (400 - 2000 RPM)
* PWM control (4-pin fan)
* mag-lev bearing (lifetime 300.000+ hours)
* 4 color options (red, blue, white LED and non-LED version)

Mediocre
* noise output (16 - 37 dB(A))

Cons
* price

Per PC, i have 4x Corsair ML Pro LED series fans and 3x NZXT AER140 RGB fans. While i can get by with (let's say) 3 fans, there's a benefit of having more case fans. With 7 case fans, i don't have to run my fans at high RPM to maintain the proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases and i can run them at much slower speeds, which in turn also reduces noise coming from fans. My case fans run at about 800 - 1100 RPM and i can hardly hear them.

So, to maintain specific airflow, you could have either:
* 3x 140mm fans running at 2000 RPM each and producing 37 dB(A) per fan, OR:
* 6x 140mm fans running at 1000 RPM each and producing ~20 dB(A) per fan.

Which you'd choose?

what is the headline difference between the tx-1600 and the px-1600?
Only PSU's efficiency.

TX-1600 = 80+ Titanium efficiency level
PX-1600 = 80+ Platinum efficiency level

adaptive heat control is best, like a thermostat! what you want is the heat control to activate when the heat reaches a safe margin from being problematic.
This is how CPU coolers are actually made to work. Namely the CPU_FAN header on MoBo follows the CPU temperature curve, whereby when CPU heats up, MoBo sends signal via CPU_FAN header to the fan on CPU cooler to start spinning faster and in turn, increase the CPU cooler heat dissipation.

if you have a relay one, as that isnt connected to a PC, how does it determine which signal to relay, ie your modem and not say your neighbours?
Thanks to SSID.

It's unique sting of letters and numbers to identify different wi-fi networks. And to make it easier to tell a diff, you can put a custom name to your wi-fi network within router settings.

Like i said, i have two wi-fi networks in my apartment, the 2.4 Ghz one and 5 Ghz one. And i've put custom name to each one + password as well. Because at current date, no-one in their right mind would keep their wi-fi network unguarded and password free.
So, when a friend would visit me, they can use their smart phone or laptop to see both of my networks. But before accessing my wi-fi network, they need to put in my wi-fi password. Now, i don't tell my wi-fi password to them, instead i input it myself. Afterwards, they can use my wi-fi cost free as long as they are visiting me. Of course, modern devices remember the SSID and password in them, so when my friend visits me another time, they don't have to reconnect and re-enter my wi-fi password again, instead, their device connects automatically once in the range of my wi-fi.

As of how you setup your network permissions - is up to you. I can revoke permissions at any given time, if i so desire. So when friend visits me next time, the can't automatically connect to my wi-fi network. There are other options as well, like timed permissions and what not.

this specific mobo looks like for Intel cpus, is there a version which would work with the aforementioned AMD cpu?
There is, but it WILL cost you a fortune. Easy 1300 quid,
pcpp: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...odlike-eatx-am5-motherboard-meg-x670e-godlike
specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-X670E-GODLIKE

can you clarify what E-ATX is versus ATX, that tower case would fit an E-ATX,
E-ATX is bigger version of ATX MoBo. E-ATX is far wider than standard ATX MoBo.

E.g, the Asus ATX MoBo i put in is: 305mm x 244mm
While the MSI Godlike E-ATX i just linked is: 288mm x 304.8mm

And yes, E-ATX MoBo will fit into Phatneks Enthoo Pro TG PC case.

most people wont know the difference between top end and high end! I certainly dont, without a lot of research I have no idea which is better!
It's actually quite simple difference:
* top-end = best what money can buy at current date (e.g MSI MEG Godlike MoBo, Seasonic PRIME TX PSU).
* high-end = area between good quality and top-end (e.g Asus ROG Crosshair/MSI MEG MoBo, Seasonic Vertex PSU).

List would follow with:
* good quality = area between mediocre quality and high-end (e.g Seasonic Focus PSU).
* mediocre quality = area between low quality and good quality (e.g Seasonic Core PSU).
* low quality = if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.
* crap quality = Do i need to define it?

The lower you go down the list - the less money for a product you'd be paying (for the most part), but the less quality of a product you'll also be getting. Including less reliability and/or less performance.

Now, i do get the reasoning behind why not want to pay more for anything. Sadly, most people are only willing to pay low quality level worth of price, while expecting good quality or even high-end quality product at that price point. This can not be done. In PC hardware realm, there are some certain components where one can not cheap out on. This includes everything to do with power delivery, namely PSU. UPS too if one has money to buy UPS.

I refined my suggested build earlier, to reduce price;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D 4.2 GHz 16-Core Processor (£599.00 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler (£44.08 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI PRO B650-P WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard (£211.95 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory (£222.49 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (£69.98 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Case (£132.31 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (£137.94 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £1417.75

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-01-08 08:06 GMT+0000


Changes;
CPU - no change, still top-end CPU.
CPU cooler - still high-end, a bit more noise but FAR cheaper.
MoBo - was high-end, now is mediocre quality. Of course, you'll loose quite a lot of features with cheaper MoBo. E.g Asus MoBo was X670E chipset with 4x M.2 slots, MSI MoBo is B650 chipset with 2x M.2 slots. Wi-fi connectivity is same between two MoBos.
RAM - was good quality, now is mediocre quality. But since you want to have 4x DIMMs, price actually almost doubled for RAM since total capacity doubled (from 32GB to 64GB). Also, there is no 4x 8GB DDR5 set to be purchased. So, you can buy two sets of 2x 8GB DDR5 (to get total of 32GB) and have a risk of all 4x sticks not working together. If you want to take the risk, it would save ~100 quid on RAM price.
SSD - was top-end, now is high-end. The very same M.2 SSD as my OS drive, 970 Evo Plus, in 1TB in size. It is PCI-E 3.0 drive and will work just fine.
PC case - same high-end as before.
PSU - was top-end, now is good quality. Still solid PSU to use. 750W capacity, not as many connectors as 1600W unit but still reliable and well built. 10 years of warranty and fully modular. Oh, less efficient as well, 80+ Gold efficiency, compared to previous 80+ Titanium efficiency. Oh, with this PSU, max what you can put in GPU wise is RTX 4070 Ti. So, no RTX 4080 or RTX 4090.

CPU itself costs almost half what the entire PC costs and if you still want to go cheaper than this, then i suggest that you get cheaper CPU. For other components, i'm not willing to put out lesser quality components that are even cheaper. You can do that on your own merit.
 
Last edited:

Richard1234

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Yes.

mSATA was created in 2011 to reduce physical size in portable devices, compared to standard 2.5" SATA drives.

mSATA is similar in appearance as is M.2, but drive and socket are bigger and you can't put mSATA drive into M.2 slot.

M.2 was created in 2013 and is spiritual successor of mSATA. M.2 slot is smaller, drive itself has 4 different sizes (different length) and M.2 also supports PCI-E, SATA and USB. While mSATA supports only SATA and mSATA drives are only in one size: 30.1mm x 26.8mm.

At current moment mSATA is essentially obsolete. You may find mSATA in some older portable devices manufactured in 2012-2014 but current modern portable devices use M.2 drives.

an example where a new technology has emerged and eventually become obsolete before I decided to upgrade!

Not quite, but close to it. Also, depends on usage scenario.

HDDs have the cheaper price per GB. And one HDD can be as big as 22TB. 22TB is essentially max what one HDD can house in itself. Now, on consumer aspect, that is quite a lot, considering that consumer SSD that you can buy, is only up to 8TB in size. But if you look towards workstation/server SSDs, then those go up to 100TB in size.

* Price wise, HDD is still the cheapest storage solution.
* Power consumption wise, SSD, namely M.2 SSD is the best solution.
* Performance wise (read/write speeds) HDDs are the slowest, followed by SATA SSD and M.2 PCI-E NVMe SSDs are the fastest.
* Noise wise, SSD is king, since it has 0 moving parts.
* Physical size wise, 3.5" HDD is worst, followed by 2.5" HDD/SSD and M.2 SSD is the smallest.
* Temperature wise, HDD actually is better. Now, 2.5" SSD may run cooler than 3.5" HDD but i've seen 2.5" SSDs to run very hot as well (mostly due to cost-cutting methods used in manufacturing). M.2 drives run quite hot compared to 3.5" HDDs. E.g my 970 Evo Plus OS drive idles at 45C. While on load, it's temperature can rise to ~60C. Of course, that without any heatsink or active cooling on it. But latest PCI-E 5.0 M.2 drives do need heatsink and maybe even active cooling, to keep them below ~75C for normal operation.
* Reliability wise, SSDs are more reliable than HDDs. Since strong magetic field is enough to wipe the data on HDD. Same is when HDD sustains impact damage (e.g falls to the floor). SSDs aren't susceptible to either of the two. But with SDDs, there is one caveat in terms or reliability. Due to the nature of NAND cells, they have fixed write amounts, until cell can't be written on anymore. If this happens, data still remains on SSD, but SSD turns into read-only drive. E.g like CD/DVD disc. Of course, SSDs can monitor their read/write cycles and you can tell when the read/write cycles are up, so you can replace the drive. This is known as TBW (TeraBytes Written).

E.g my 970 Evo Plus 2TB M.2 PCI-E 3.0 NVMe SSD has endurance rating of: 1200 TBW. Meaning that the drive can sustain 1200 TB worth of data written on to it over time. 970 Evo Plus i have, is almost 2 years old and during that time, it has collected 8870 Power On Hours, with 731 Power On Count and 16981 GB (17 TB) Written. That makes ~8.5 TB written per year. And since my drive endurance is 1200 TB written, it would take me 141 years :eek:, before i reach the point of where the drive endurance is up and i need to buy a new drive. :)
this is great information! I have archived this for future reference!

with the TBW limit, is a specific write address just relocated when it is worn out?

ie until the example 1200 TBW limit is reached, you can write to any sector of the disk? where the disk hardware just relocates a used up sector to a not yet used up sector?

As of HDD usage today in home situation, many use HDDs as NAS storage. I don't use HDDs anymore, instead, i've replaced all my HDDs with SSDs due to faster read/write speeds.

NAS=?

I have a lot of HDDs, bought across the eras, because I generally use 2T drives for backing up other drives, and if you go back some years, 2T SDD's either didnt exist or were too expensive, but now USB3 2T's are nice prices.

nowadays I have only been buying SSDs, but several years ago I bought a bunch of WD blue 2T 3.5" drives for archiving.

Turbo Boost isn't overclocking. Instead it is used by CPU whenever CPU thinks it needs more compute power, in terms of higher frequency.

In a similar sense, car gasoline engine RPM at idle is ~1500 RPM. If you want to get moving or drive faster, you increase the engine RPM to e.g 3000 RPM.
so far I have never monitored the RPM for the car, I just go by the sound! I dont listen to radio or music when I drive, just the car and the road and the sound of other cars. eg I change gear by sound, but I also use mph/10 via the dial to decide gear on horizontal roads, up a slope I subtract 1, down a slope I add 1. if the sound is angry, I move up a gear.

Yes, you can underclock both the CPU and GPU as well but CPU and GPU by default, are already doing that.
can you show an MSI screenshot of the settings system for this underclocking?

For example, i have i5-6600K, which base frequency is 3.5 Ghz and it can Turbo up to 3.9 Ghz.
Now, my CPU doesn't run at 3.5 Ghz all the time, instead, CPU is smart and when CPU sees that it doesn't have any meaningful load on it, CPU itself downclocks. Mine downclocks as low as 0.8 Ghz. But my CPU currently hovers around 0.8 Ghz to 1.1 Ghz while i'm currently typing this reply.
Then again, i don't have any meaningful load on my CPU either. Just my Firefox browser open, with one tab here in TH forums to write a reply, another tab for Youtube to listen nice background music while typing this and 1-2 more tabs open for reserach regarding this reply.

Same is with my GPU: MSI GTX 1660 Ti Gaming X 6G, which has base clock of 1500 Mhz and boost clock of 1875 Mhz. Currently, my GPU idles around with 400 Mhz clocks.
how do you measure the CPU and GPU frequencies eg that the GPU is 400Mhz currently?

Now, you can downclock on your own as well, but you can't do it "adaptive" as CPU and GPU do it on their own. Instead, people ususally downclock to a fixed freqency, which CPU/GPU must keep regardless the workload on it. I, personally, do not favor downclock by user. Sure, it may keep the temperatures and power consumption of CPU/GPU low, compared to the default settings of a CPU/GPU (that adaptive frequency change), but why restrict CPU/GPU to certain state where it is clear that CPU/GPU needs higher frequency depending on a workload.

In a similar sense, car gasoline engine. Let's say the car engine operating RPM for normal drive is 1000-4000 RPM. Whereby car engine itself, more-or-less, decides what RPM it needs to run at, to maintain different speeds.
Now with "downclocking" you'd force the car engine to run at 1500 RPM, regardless what kind of speed you drive at. Sure, you keep the car engine to use less gasoline but for the engine itself, it is detrimental when it can't rev up when it needs to.

Same goes with overclocking as well, both CPU and GPU. Now, CPU itself decides when to increase the frequency, depending on a load on it. E.g my CPU can boost it's frequency up to 3.9 Ghz, depending on the load on it. So, i'd rather let the CPU decide when it needs the extra performance.
Overclocking, in the other hand, will force the CPU to run at fixed frequency, often at higher clocks than what CPU turbo clocks are. E.g for my CPU, turbo is up to 3.9 Ghz, while i could overclock it to 4.2 Ghz. And CPU must keep the overclock at all times, regardless if it actually needs the increased performance output or not. Not it only creates more heat and consumes more power as well, it will also reduce CPU lifespan considerably. So, other than bragging rights, i don't see why to overclock CPU. Same is with GPU.

I wont be overclocking! I like to keep everything within safe limits, especially with expensive stuff, as the guarantee might get voided if you dont.

as regards bragging rights, without research and measuring, its often not possible to know if something is the best.

you can greatly boost performance via configurational changes, eg go for lower resolution, eg halve the resolution and potentially graphics speeds up 4x. and eg copying stuff between different drives CAN be faster than to the same drive.

basically a skilled operator with a less powerful machine can outdo an ignorant operator with a more powerful machine!

the further back in time you go, the more primitive and slower and less capacity hardware was, but the more advanced the software was, because people had to exercise more ingenuity to mitigate the lower capability. today's machines are so powerful, programmers have become lazy.

the Amiga re-engineered floppy drives via various tricks so that 720K MSDOS floppies fit 880K data, and 1440K ones fitted 1760K.

things like compression were to mitigate small disk capacity and also slow cables to printers, where some printers use compression for the data, because of the slowness of the parallel port.

the 1980s PC uses byte encoded hardware fonts, where eg if you write the ascii character 'A' to one byte of memory, 'A' will appear on the screen. they had to do this because eg a true colour HD screen is 6MB of data! but I think the original PC was just up to 640K of memory, 1MB in total but a zone was memory mapped hardware eg the screen.

this is to mitigate not having enough memory to do pixel fonts!


things like DVD's use MPEG compression to fit 2 hours of film, where MPEG I think is probably a 3D version of JPEG, where 1 dimension is time. because 2 hours uncompressed wont fit on a DVD!

In similar sense, car gasoline engine. With "overclocking", you'd set the car engine at 5000 RPM, regardless the speed you drive at or even when idling around. Engine must keep 5000 RPM at all times. It uses far more gasoline and some may argue that they like to hear their engine roaring at all times. But it will wear out car engine far faster.

So, option is open do underclock/overclock CPU/GPU, but i'd rather let CPU/GPU to decide when it needs to underclock/turbo based on the workload on it, rather than forcing it to keep specific frequency 24/7.


GPU = Graphics Processing Unit.

ATI Radeon is just one GPU brand. Now defunct as well. Bought by AMD.
ATi colours were much nicer than Nvidia. I tried graphics cards by both firms, and ATi hands down were a better image.

but maybe was just the 2 specific cards I compared.


Yes.


Why Intel prefix? Well, it was Intel who released the ATX specification in 1995, to establish universal power connectors and PSU sprcifications for all desktop PCs. Before that, everyone did their own thing.

In a similar sense, it's like EU who is working towards universalt power connector on smart phones: USB type-C. Before that, each and every mobile phone had their own, proprietary power connector. Apple is still fighting against it.

And yes, it will work with AMD as well.

you should always begin with universal standards, you get better division of labour and better economies of scale.

we were taught this in the 1980s in history, that they realised this in the latter 1800s with the industrial revolution, in particular with the design of screw threads, where they standardised the geometry, that way one firm specialises in making the screws which can be used by any other firm. you see this with light bulbs, where you have 2 main standards: bayonet and screw thread, where you can get a bulb by GE to use with a lamp by some other firm.

for computers, where eg one firm makes the cables, another makes the screens etc, and eg competition between different firms making the cables leads to more optimal cost versus quality.

Apple is on the losing side of history by making everything proprietory. and eg the ginormous success of PCs is because its mostly an open standard, where any firm can make any component. eg Hitachi might make the hard disk, Nvidia the graphics card, Kingston the memory, Samsung the monitor, Intel the CPU, etc, etc.

whereas if Apple sits on everything, things will generally be worse.

Apple often innovates new technology, but eventually cannot compete on price or performance when the technology becomes established because the other firms go for universal standards, eg Android for the OS, USB-C for the cables etc.

USB-C is good because symmetric, many mobile phone cables are asymmetric where it is hassle and time wasted figuring out which way round the socket is, which way round the plug is, and then aligning these.

Sony learnt the hard way with the proprietory Betamax standard, outdone by VHS, and then Sony began to make everything with open standards, eg with Philips they did the CD and DVD formats.

with old era batteries, AA, AAA were great standards, where you can buy AAA by Duracell, Energiser, Varta, etc and use in all kinds of equipment. but today's smartphone batteries are too nonstandard. this leads to duplication of effort, and worse economies of scale. where each mobile needs its own production run of batteries, much better to just have 1 production run that works with 30% of phones. the phone companies also become jacks of all trades, trying to design the batteries when it would be better if say you leave that to Duracell, Energiser, Varta, what is called "division of labour" a concept from before 1900!

USB must be the most successful bus, because they standardised 1 socket to deal with so many things, from printers to disks, to wireless, to bluetooth keyboards and mice, film scanners, etc.


the modern world is only viable via division of labour, its not viable for one person or firm to do everything, although Apple do their damnedest to do everything! IBM used to make everything from floppy disks to PCs, to monitors etc. but by the early 1990s, specialist firms outdid IBM on every component! I went to a job interview for a small firm which did token ring networks in the early 1990s, and the interviewer told me their firm totally outclassed IBM.

with the Amiga, originally they developed the hardware, but eventually the 3rd party firms created superior graphics and a superior programming interface for the graphics than the main firm.

PCs are the most successful scheme because the entire system can be done 3rd party, namely clones. the original PC was IBM for the tower case and mobo, both the physical and electronic architecture were by IBM, Intel for the CPU, Microsoft for the operating system. Motorola did the timer chip on the mobo.


700W unit is tops for fanless PSU.


All Seasonic PRIME PSUs have fanless mode for them.

What it means, is that there is button on the back side of the PSU,

how accessible is this button? why not at the front?

from where you can choose between 2 fan modes:
* normal - fan spins all the time, regardless the load on PSU
* fanless - fan doesn't spin at all, until load on PSU is 50% and more

sounds like a reason to buy Seasonic!

Source (scroll down about half-way): https://seasonic.com/atx3-prime-tx


Those M.2 covers by MoBo manufacturers is a new trend and idea is to give more "clean" look for a MoBo. Those can also act as M.2 heatsinks, but in reality, those M.2 covers are poor ones and do less in terms of dissipating heat. Those tend to keep the heat trapped in instead. Also, when M.2 drive does need heatsink, it comes with one.
I noticed a Corsair memory card I bought around 2009 was encased, which seemed much nicer than the usual unencased ones.


E.g 990 Pro 1TB with heatsink: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v9p1t0cw

Current day gaming consoles (PS5, Xbox) can use M.2 drives as well. But since airflow in gaming consoles is essentially 0, M.2 drives in there need dedicated heatsink. In desktop PCs, M.2 drives are mounted on MoBo and can cool themselves due to the airflow inside the PC. Thus, heatsink isn't crucial for M.2 drive, e.g 990 Pro. Though, it depends on M.2 drive since some drives are hotter running and come with heatsink regardless.

So, either use M.2 drive with dedicated heatsink, if it comes with one. Or use bare drive, without hiding it under MoBo M.2 cover.
E.g my two M.2 drives are bare and can live just fine, by also being part of the airflow inside my PC.

One drive just above the GPU, another one below it:

dshKhdC.jpg

to install the upper one in the photo looks a bit precarious! do you have to remove the GPU below it?

Well, i linked you how the full build would look like in the Phanteks Enthoo Pro TG case. Looks quite nice in my opinion.

And here's how my build looks like in a full-tower ATX case:

oeNWFKX.jpg

compare that with my 2010 PC:

http://www.directemails.info/tom/PC.jpg

where the blue arrow points to the hole in the wall for the cables to the monitor + speakers + mouse + keyboard in the next room. in fact now I use a handshake mouse by Logi, which uses something like bluetooth.

can you see why I leave the side panel off?



and just some of my hard drives:

http://www.directemails.info/tom/some_hard_drives.jpg

I have so many that I couldnt directly tell you all I have!



:cheese:

Quality costs money.

I am prepared to spend a lot, but in a carefully researched way.

one danger is where you spend a lot, and then 2 years later the low end stuff is much better!

eg 2015 I bought a Samsung Galaxy Note 4, which is way better than say the first iPhone.


For RAM to work fine, all DIMMs must be identical and also sold as a set, where they come in one, sealed package.
I didnt realise they sold them in factory guaranteed lots!

I'll probably go for 64Gig total, either 4 x 16G or if any mobo has 8 sockets, for 8 x 8G.

if it has 16 sockets then 16 x 4G!


I want the system I build to last 10 years, and to be competitive for 5 years!


When RAM DIMMs are made; same make, model, speed, CL and timings RAMs are tested with each other and those sticks that get along well are put into sets. First set to be made is the set of 8x RAM sticks and sold as 8x RAM sticks in a set (e.g 8x 8GB, total of 64GB). If the set of 8 doesn't work, it's divided into half which makes up two sets of 4. If the 4x RAM sticks do work together, the are sold as 4x RAM sticks in a set (e.g 4x 8GB, total of 32GB). But if the set of 4 doesn't work, it's again divided into half, making two sets of 2. Two RAM sticks that work well with each other are sold as 2x RAM sticks in a set (e.g 2x 8GB, total of 16GB). Those RAM sticks that doesn't want to work together at all are sold as single RAM sticks.

So, in terms of populating all RAM slots, best course of action is to buy a set of 4x RAM sticks. This gives you a guarantee that all RAM sticks will work together nicely.

Now, what i suggested, is cost saving method, where you 1st buy 2x RAM sticks and at later time, buy another 2x RAM sticks, of identical RAM. Though, this course of action does have downside, where there is a risk that new RAM will not work with old RAM. So, there is some risk taking.

This is what i had to do, because i didn't have enough money to buy a set of 4x RAM sticks off the bat. I had to take this risk. Of course, i did my level best to ensure that when i buy the other 2x RAM sticks at later date, chances that all 4x RAM sticks work together are high, still, risk remained. I got lucky and got all my 4x identical RAM sticks working without issues.
could be worth also buying 4 x 4G, rather than 2 x 8G.

the really big cost is the entire system, a few years later replacing the 4 x 4G by 4 x 8G is a more manageable "incremental" cost.

having had a bad experience with strimmer batteries, I now prefer to buy things up front and not rely on future availability.

4 x 4G would then give you the faster speed right away.



If you do have money to buy 4x RAM sticks off the bat, this is the best option. Then you don't have to worry about RAM sticks working together (like i had to, when i bought 2x sticks later on).


Yes.

Here's comparison between two RAM sets, where on the left, there is 4x 4GB and on the right is 2x 8GB. While total amount is same (16GB) and so is CAS Latency (15) and frequency (3000 Mhz),
link: https://ram.userbenchmark.com/Compa...engeance-LPX-DDR4-3000-C15-2x8GB/m43906vs3546

Note: the Kingston 4x 4GB is the very same RAM i currently have in my Skylake build.

RAM latency is lower for 4x 8GB than 2x 16GB, meaning that CPU can access data in 4x 8GB RAM sticks faster than in 2x 16GB sticks.

In similar sense, let's say you have 4x books of 200 pages and 2x books of 400 pages. And you can access all books at the same time.
Now, to find a word at specific location, it takes less time to access 4x 200 page books at the same time, than to access 2x 400 page books, since you have to scroll through all pages from the start.

Of course, for some applications, it doesn't matter if you have 4x 8GB or 2x 16GB, while for others, it does matter.
its a question of hardware engineering and software engineering. ie if the hardware is designed properly, consecutive memory can alternate between the chips by the quantum that can be read in one step.

eg say 16 bytes can be read in one step, then you arrange first 16 bytes from chip1, second 16 from chip2, 3rd from chip3, 4th from chip4, 5th from chip1, etc.

you can then read 4 x 16 bytes in one step, and your memory is 4x as fast.

potentially also the memory chips could have onchip caching, where when you read 16 bytes, the chip internally could read say 16 x 16 bytes to its internal cache, where the next 15 reads are even faster.

any storage hardware at all can be made twice as fast by doubling the bus width! but you might run into some other limit.


now if the mobo is badly engineered, there could be just 16 bytes accessible from the totality of mem chips, where you wont gain speed.

on the software side, better software engineering also will speed things up. eg I wrote some software for remapping image colours between ICC colour profiles, and converting 1 pixel costs time. by caching these conversions, the colour conversion of a picture accelerates as it converts, because a lot of colours recur a lot. I also cached the conversions outside the software, so when I call it for the next photo it is even faster! the cache was an external file, where you could delete the file when not running the software to restart the cache. this kind of cache is sometimes called a "lookup table".

actually Google is based on caches, where it doesnt search 1 million URLs in 1 second, you might have noticed it could take 20 seconds to visit a URL when the internet is busy. in fact Google stores the webpage info on their servers, and this info can be stale, where it shows a URL which no longer exists! it searches 1 million URLs on its cache in 1 second, it would struggle to search 10 in 1 second on the internet! even that isnt viable without caching, because it would have to trawl through the links, and some websites may be down for maintenance, and it would take 10 years to do a search!


some software is only used infrequently, where it might take a few seconds unoptimised, where its not worth optimising.

these things are a balancing act, on our computing degree they emphasised the importance of selective optimisation.

where you write a program without any clever tricks, and then only optimise some very carefully selected parts.

a general MO we were taught was to time the different phases of a program, and just optimise the slowest phase.

we were actually never taught to program, and never made any hardware, and the only hardware used was the Unix terminals and printers, the course was more about understanding the principles of hardware and software. programming you had to teach yourself. eg we were taught the principles on which ALL computers are made, eg the Von Neumann model, and also Turing machines. eg for the exam you needed to be able to show that all turing machines are equivalent, regardless how many symbols or states allowed. with hardware, we were taught concepts such as buses, caches, input and output, clocks, RISC, cpu internal architecture, etc. it was really great.

all the programming I know I learnt outside the degree, BUT the degree gave perspectives which led to much better programs, because they taught an elite way to look at all software and hardware.

we got taught several languages, but just for simple toy programs, not for apps! where they taught us these just to give perspective. They werent teaching us to program, but to understand in an elite way what a program is, net effect is after those courses you write much better programs.


The faculty actually prohibited the teaching of specific hardware or software except for the project. that way what I learnt in the 1990s I can apply to the latest hardware of today including smartphones, set top boxes etc, whereas if we were taught about the hardware and software of that day, my knowledge would already be no use 20 years ago!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhMYmEu8gks


I don't understand this question. :??:

PC case can stand on it's own, so, you don't need it to bolt it down to the floor/wall. If this is what you asked for.

what I meant is for air to get into the PC from the base of the tower, the base needs to be elevated above the floor.


No.

For PC case fan, those come in standard dimensions. Two most commonly used are:
* 120mm fan = 120mm x 120mm x 25mm
* 140mm fan = 140mm x 140mm x 25mm

Others include:
* 80mm fan = 80mm x 80mm x 25mm
* 92mm fan = 92mm x 92mm x 25mm
* 200mm fan = 200mm x 200mm x 30mm

Then, there are "slim" fans as well, whereby their thickness isn't 25mm but instead 15mm, e.g:
* 120mm slim fan = 120mm x 120mm x 15mm

And also there are fans which physically are bigger but can mount on smaller mounts, given there's enough space to put the fan. Such fans are usually used on CPU coolers and by e.g Noctua or Be Quiet.
E.g: Noctua NF-A15 HS-PWM chromax.black = 140mm x 150mm x 25mm but has mounting holes at 105x105mm locations, meaning it can be mounted where standard 120mm fan can go (IF there's enough free space around the fan),
specs: https://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a15-hs-pwm-chromax-black-swap/specification


Bad idea, unless you have 0 case fans inside the PC and no active cooling, whereby you need to rely on natural convection.

Having PC components inside closed "box" is to keep the sensitive electronics out of harms way. And not to overhear the components, the "box" has grille on many sides, whereby one can install fans, to create an airflow path inside the PC.

Airflow rule of thumb is: front and bottom - intake; top and read - exhaust. This also helps the natural convection of where hot air rises.


Answer me this: What is the point of PC fan?
* Is it to: create as less noise as possible?
* Or is it to: cool the components?

yes, but what I want is the least noise that fully cools whatever I may try!

ie I want both points, with "cool the components" the priority point.

I dont want a fully cooled system which is noiser than a jumbo jet, also I dont want a silent system which doesnt cool the system.

the price is the 3rd priority, I dont want to pay £300 for a fan!



where I would prefer to pay an extra £100 to get a quieter system, if the total price is £2900, then £100 is insignificant!

but if I was going to the cinema for £8, then £20 for a premium seat is too expensive, yet is more expensive than an extra £100 for the PC when you amortise. because that £100 will pay for extra silence over 5 years, whereas the £20 would just pay for a better seat for just 2 hours and in fact is seriously expensive!

money is all about ratios and not absolute amounts.

£1000 is a lot of money if you want to buy a watch, but is super cheap if you want to buy an aeroplane!


The fans i have, are: Corsair ML140 Pro LED mag-lev bearing fans.
Sure, ML140 Pro fans have premium price but they also have mag-lev bearing (one of the few fans that have it) and very good balance between airflow (CFM) and static pressure (mmH2O).

These fans come in as 120mm and 140mm versions and with either red, blue, white LED or no LED at all;
red LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050047-WW
blue LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050048-WW
white LED: https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/ml-pro-led-config/p/CO-9050046-WW
no LED: https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categ...Levitation-Fans/ml-pro-config/p/CO-9050045-WW

pcpp: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/D34NnQ,cfyxFT,sYNypg,ycH48d/

Here are the pros and cons of Corsair ML140 Pro LED fans:
Pros
* great airflow (20 - 97 CFM)
* great static pressure (0.2 - 3.0 mmH2O)
* great RPM range (400 - 2000 RPM)
* PWM control (4-pin fan)
* mag-lev bearing (lifetime 300.000+ hours)
* 4 color options (red, blue, white LED and non-LED version)
for me the leds are irrelevant, as I keep the tower in a different room, see photo, where I cant see the computer when I use it!

lighting is only relevant if it illuminated the mobo for inserting gizmos.

also an led is one further thing to go wrong, if the led eventually wears out, will the unit now fail?

Mediocre
* noise output (16 - 37 dB(A))

Cons
* price

whether price is a con or a pro does depend on its ratio to other costs.


Per PC, i have 4x Corsair ML Pro LED series fans and 3x NZXT AER140 RGB fans. While i can get by with (let's say) 3 fans, there's a benefit of having more case fans. With 7 case fans, i don't have to run my fans at high RPM to maintain the proper airflow inside my full-tower ATX cases and i can run them at much slower speeds, which in turn also reduces noise coming from fans. My case fans run at about 800 - 1100 RPM and i can hardly hear them.

So, to maintain specific airflow, you could have either:
* 3x 140mm fans running at 2000 RPM each and producing 37 dB(A) per fan, OR:
* 6x 140mm fans running at 1000 RPM each and producing ~20 dB(A) per fan.

Which you'd choose?
the latter! I think with decibels, each decibel is a doubling, so 20 dB x 6 is probably ln(6)/ln(2) + 20 = 22.58dB
whereas 3 x 37dB = ln(3)/ln(2) + 37 = 38.58 dB, thus 3 x 37 dB = 2^(38.58-22.58) = 2^ 16 = 65536 x as noisy!

16 decibels noisier, which is 38.58 - 22.58


but I am not an engineer, so you may need to ask an engineer to troubleshoot my calculation!

you can approximate the calculation by rounding the quantity to the nearest power of 2, eg 3 is approx 4, so 3 fans at 37dB is approx 2 + 37 = 39 dB, and 6 is approx 8, so 6 fans at 20 dB is approx 20 + 3 = 23 dB.

noise ultimately can cause premature deafness or hardness of hearing, the louder the noise, the worse it is.

eg people who use hammers, often have impaired hearing, unless they use noise reducing headphones.

Only PSU's efficiency.

TX-1600 = 80+ Titanium efficiency level
PX-1600 = 80+ Platinum efficiency level


This is how CPU coolers are actually made to work. Namely the CPU_FAN header on MoBo follows the CPU temperature curve, whereby when CPU heats up, MoBo sends signal via CPU_FAN header to the fan on CPU cooler to start spinning faster and in turn, increase the CPU cooler heat dissipation.


Thanks to SSID.

It's unique sting of letters and numbers to identify different wi-fi networks. And to make it easier to tell a diff, you can put a custom name to your wi-fi network within router settings.
but how do you give a standalone forwarding router this SSID? is it via the PC via wireless like with the main modem?


Like i said, i have two wi-fi networks in my apartment, the 2.4 Ghz one and 5 Ghz one. And i've put custom name to each one + password as well. Because at current date, no-one in their right mind would keep their wi-fi network unguarded and password free.
So, when a friend would visit me, they can use their smart phone or laptop to see both of my networks. But before accessing my wi-fi network, they need to put in my wi-fi password. Now, i don't tell my wi-fi password to them, instead i input it myself. Afterwards, they can use my wi-fi cost free as long as they are visiting me. Of course, modern devices remember the SSID and password in them, so when my friend visits me another time, they don't have to reconnect and re-enter my wi-fi password again, instead, their device connects automatically once in the range of my wi-fi.

As of how you setup your network permissions - is up to you. I can revoke permissions at any given time, if i so desire. So when friend visits me next time, the can't automatically connect to my wi-fi network. There are other options as well, like timed permissions and what not.


There is, but it WILL cost you a fortune. Easy 1300 quid,
pcpp: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...odlike-eatx-am5-motherboard-meg-x670e-godlike
specs: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MEG-X670E-GODLIKE

could you give a config based around this, with 64G memory?

I calculate without other changes, that ups the system price from 2108 to 2935,

it may be worth it to have those extra M.2 sockets, I have to scrutinise what I get for the money,

also is on board wifi cost effective, is a mobo supplied with wifi card cheaper than buying the 2 separately?

the way I look at money is different from most people, I am looking at this amortised, where I might use the machine for 10 years, where the 2935 is 80pence per day, and 293.50 per year.

over 5 years, it is £1.60 per day, and £587 per year, £48/month.

I pay 33 fixed charge for my phone each month, 20 for my water, so if I look at using it for the next 5 years, it is slightly less money than I pay for phone and water!

as a one off payment it is a lot, and I'd quickly run out of money if I spent that every day! but the usage isnt one off! I will use this probably at least 2 hours a day for the next 5 years.

I would hesitate to pay 1000 for 1 week of holiday! because in a year that is 52000, but 2935 for a PC for 5 years, is 587 for a year.

actually I pay 59/month for some financial charting software, and maybe I should cancel that subscription as I think I cannot justify that, which would more than cover the cost of the GODLIKE AMD system, and eg I can downgrade that to end of day data rather than the intraday data I currently get. the intraday data is 32/month.

E-ATX is bigger version of ATX MoBo. E-ATX is far wider than standard ATX MoBo.

E.g, the Asus ATX MoBo i put in is: 305mm x 244mm
While the MSI Godlike E-ATX i just linked is: 288mm x 304.8mm

And yes, E-ATX MoBo will fit into Phatneks Enthoo Pro TG PC case.

E-ATX presumably has more sockets, and better spacing between sockets?

or are the PCI sockets same distance apart in order to align with the back of the tower case?


It's actually quite simple difference:
* top-end = best what money can buy at current date (e.g MSI MEG Godlike MoBo, Seasonic PRIME TX PSU).
* high-end = area between good quality and top-end (e.g Asus ROG Crosshair/MSI MEG MoBo, Seasonic Vertex PSU).
what I meant is, I cannot tell just by looking and using a machine whether it is top end or high end!

eg a low end laptop today is probably faster than our university's mainframe in the 1990s!

someone emailed me specs for a Dell laptop costing some £300 and the hardware looked quite impressive!


List would follow with:
* good quality = area between mediocre quality and high-end (e.g Seasonic Focus PSU).
* mediocre quality = area between low quality and good quality (e.g Seasonic Core PSU).
* low quality = if you pay peanuts - you will get monkeys.
* crap quality = Do i need to define it?

The lower you go down the list - the less money for a product you'd be paying (for the most part), but the less quality of a product you'll also be getting. Including less reliability and/or less performance.

Now, i do get the reasoning behind why not want to pay more for anything. Sadly, most people are only willing to pay low quality level worth of price, while expecting good quality or even high-end quality product at that price point. This can not be done. In PC hardware realm, there are some certain components where one can not cheap out on. This includes everything to do with power delivery, namely PSU. UPS too if one has money to buy UPS.
one problem is that of a "false economy", where longer term you pay more money by seemingly paying less.

eg the cheaper disks will be smaller and slower, so you have to buy more of them, and a backup might take 8 hours instead of 4, where that is also wear and tear of the PC leaving it on for 8 hours instead of 4.

but eg there is no point buying a sports car that can do 300mph, when the national speed limit is 70mph!

also most of my driving is city driving, where the top speed limit is 40mph.

buying a 10000 mobo is like buying a lorry to go shopping, very problematic to park it at the shops!

also wont fit in the fancy car wash,


I refined my suggested build earlier, to reduce price;

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D 4.2 GHz 16-Core Processor (£599.00 @ Amazon UK)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler (£44.08 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI PRO B650-P WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard (£211.95 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory (£222.49 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (£69.98 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro Tempered Glass ATX Full Tower Case (£132.31 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX-750 ATX 3.0 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (£137.94 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £1417.75

could you do an upper end and lower end system with the GODLIKE AMD mobo?

the system drive I may well go for a smaller one, eg 1T is probably more than plenty.

where initially I will use my existing drives, perhaps rehoused, and only eventually buy further M.2 drives.


Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-01-08 08:06 GMT+0000


Changes;
CPU - no change, still top-end CPU.
CPU cooler - still high-end, a bit more noise but FAR cheaper.
MoBo - was high-end, now is mediocre quality. Of course, you'll loose quite a lot of features with cheaper MoBo. E.g Asus MoBo was X670E chipset with 4x M.2 slots, MSI MoBo is B650 chipset with 2x M.2 slots. Wi-fi connectivity is same between two MoBos.
RAM - was good quality, now is mediocre quality. But since you want to have 4x DIMMs, price actually almost doubled for RAM since total capacity doubled (from 32GB to 64GB). Also, there is no 4x 8GB DDR5 set to be purchased. So, you can buy two sets of 2x 8GB DDR5 (to get total of 32GB) and have a risk of all 4x sticks not working together. If you want to take the risk, it would save ~100 quid on RAM price.

SSD - was top-end, now is high-end. The very same M.2 SSD as my OS drive, 970 Evo Plus, in 1TB in size. It is PCI-E 3.0 drive and will work just fine.
PC case - same high-end as before.
PSU - was top-end, now is good quality. Still solid PSU to use. 750W capacity, not as many connectors as 1600W unit but still
I think having many connectors is important, that way whatever I buy will work directly, versus before I got the Corsair PSU, where I was splitting repeatedly various power cables.

reliable and well built. 10 years of warranty and fully modular. Oh, less efficient as well, 80+ Gold efficiency, compared to previous 80+ Titanium efficiency. Oh, with this PSU, max what you can put in GPU wise is RTX 4070 Ti. So, no RTX 4080 or RTX 4090.

CPU itself costs almost half what the entire PC costs and if you still want to go cheaper than this, then i suggest that you get cheaper CPU. For other components, i'm not willing to put out lesser quality components that are even cheaper. You can do that on your own merit.
10 years warranty is good also.

I am not trying to spend as much money as possible! I need to get something for the extra money,

6 x M.2 via the bigger size of EATX seems worth the money,

the moment I buy a mobo, then I am stuck with that decision! so I want to max out the mobo, at the same time I dont care if the Intel GODLIKE allows a faster CPU, faster drives are more important to me than a faster CPU.

the main risk is buying a lot of technology which I then never use!
 
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