You know, that's good to hear. I never really oc'ed my cpu that much because i was using stock cooling. It didn't mind going from a 166Mhz to a 200Mhz FSB, but then with the multiplier it's a plain different song: it's good to go at 3000+ speeds, but it crashed now and then at 3200+ speeds, increasing voltage would help but then the temperature would rise dangerously. Btw, i have the same exact system you have, what kind of PSU you use, if you don't mind asking ?
cleeve
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Next tests?
The next tests will be on an Athlon 64 3400+. The Athlon64 architecture should catapult the power quite a bit.
Bit the difference between a Barton 2500+ or a Barton 3200+ is very small. I'm afraid the benchmarks in this, already published article using the 2500+ will be much more relevant to your setup than the benchmarks with an Athlon64 3400+.
Hell, a Sempron based on the Athlon 64 architechture - Like a Sempron 3200+ for instance - is more comperable to an Athlon64 3400+ than your AthlonXP at 3200+ speeds is.
Excellent topic. I still feel that my old agp system can play fairly well on new games. I enjoy the features of Oblivion and even manage to play BF2142 on fairly high settings with smooth gameplay. The ram makes a big difference on some games and like some people said about vanguard....yes it runs waaaaaaay better with 2gigs of Ram. X3 is pretty intensive on the system but after tweaking it a bit you can still play on pretty good settings smoothly.
System spec:
Athlon XP 3200 Barton
Asus A7N
OCZ Platinum 2gig DDR
SB Live
Quantum Fireball 40gig HD
Seagate 80gig 7200rpm HD
BFG 6800 GT AGP
System spec:
Athlon XP 3200 Barton
Asus A7N
OCZ Platinum 2gig DDR
SB Live
Quantum Fireball 40gig HD
Seagate 80gig 7200rpm HD
BFG 6800 GT AGP
TheGreatGrapeApe
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*sigh*
Me too. I fought hard to get one. They didn't want to send one to north america for some kind of jurisdictional reason.
We're still trying, but I have little hope at this point. 🙁
Personally would've prefered the X1650Pro and X1650XT both of which are available in AGP (HIS XT was same price as the GF7600GT last week) and definitely would've rounded out the last of the contenders of AGP.
FiringSquad just did a similar test with somewhat similar card selection, and they also missed out on the X16xx series cards.
The X1950 is pretty much easily the class winner, but most people with AGP are looking at the GF7600s and X1650s.
If they are desperate enough to want high end AGP they probably already got a GF7800GS a wile back. Now it just makes more sense to buy a new PC with the AM2s and C2Ds being commonplace in the market and the future pretty certain (unless you have to have socket F AMD and thus don't want C2D).
cleeve
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We've been trying on the X1650 XT front too, no dice. But I'm optimistic we'll get that one in time for the second review.
The X1650 PRO I'm not too concerned with, I don't think it would have run with the big dogs and the high-end upgrade market was the focus of the article. But if I'd have had one it would have been a nice comparison.
The X1650 PRO I'm not too concerned with, I don't think it would have run with the big dogs and the high-end upgrade market was the focus of the article. But if I'd have had one it would have been a nice comparison.
Great article - I luv this schtuff.
I threw an 800XL into my AGP P4 3.0HT thinking it would outperform 9800 radeon as a last video card until the whole rig finally dies. But I know neither how a P4 3.0HT CPU limits high end AGP cards nor how an 800XL compares to these new AGP cards. I dont over-clock since gamers need not fuss with that and I usually get 4 - 5 years out of every one of my PC's.
I threw an 800XL into my AGP P4 3.0HT thinking it would outperform 9800 radeon as a last video card until the whole rig finally dies. But I know neither how a P4 3.0HT CPU limits high end AGP cards nor how an 800XL compares to these new AGP cards. I dont over-clock since gamers need not fuss with that and I usually get 4 - 5 years out of every one of my PC's.
TheGreatGrapeApe
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Yeah that'd be sweet, I know they're relatively new, but the GT has been 'announced' in AGP but scarce as heck until just recently. Brandon at FS didn't even know the X1650XT was available in AGP. I even linked him to the sale at New Egg ($186 for the XT, which was $3 cheaper than the current GT at the time).
I understand, I would just say that considering the market I see the options breaking down like this;
Below 150 (usualy around $12-130): the GF7600GS and X1650Pro
Above $150 and Below $200ish: The GF7600GT and X1650XT
Above that: The X1950pro better than all other options, as you pretty much showed.
Also at some point in time the switch to PCIe starts making sense. Serious $500+ AUS for a GF7800/7900GS ! 8O FAQ that! :roll:
TheGreatGrapeApe
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The X800XL would be about in line with the GF7600GT, of course with a few less features, like no SM3.0
cleeve
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No pont, really. I was focusing on the tough 3d engines.
The HL2 engine is so quick even older cards like the 9700 PRO will deliver good framerates at high resolutions.
As far as the original HL engine, any card with the name Geforce or Radeon will give very fast performance...
i have an old system with amd 64 3100+ and for a long time i wanted to upgrade my graphic card, i´ve been looking around on internet and what i find in almost every place is a Diamond x1950pro, i don´t know much about Diamond but a few thoughts are appreciated.
cleeve
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Well, the fastest Socket A is the AthlonXP 3200+
The 2500+ is identical to the 3200+... same 512k cache, same clock multiplier. The only difference is that the FSB speed is 200 mhz on the 3200+ and 166 mhz on the 2500+.
It doesn't make a world of difference in games. You might see a 3 fps increase.
The Athlon 64s will see an increase, but that's because the architecture is changed significantly.
elbert
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No pont, really. I was focusing on the tough 3d engines.
The HL2 engine is so quick even older cards like the 9700 PRO will deliver good framerates at high resolutions.
As far as the original HL engine, any card with the name Geforce or Radeon will give very fast performance...
True but this should take the CPU out of the equation for atleast one test. It would be good to show a base line game test. Halflife2 while old can use every once of performance the X1950 can give. Halflife was throw in because I would just like the see how many fps is possible by such a powerful card.
TheGreatGrapeApe
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cleeve
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it has nothing to do with dual cores. i'm talking single core Athlon 64s vs single core Athlon XPs.
Check some benches on the web. Alot of reviews were done when the Athlon 64 came out.
The difference between an Athlon 64 3200+ and an Athlon XP 3200+ was about 10 fps on average in games.
It's just a much better gaming architecture.
ShimmyShimmy
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Hey guys @ Tom's Hardware,
I have an old system that I'm thinking about upgrading, and this guide helped a lot. I thought of a couple things I would like to see in future tests, if possible.
(1) Maybe you could put some benchmarks with (a) stock clock settings, (b) CPU overclocked 10%, and (c) Vid card overclocked 10%. That way, we all could clearly see "oh, in this game, a faster CPU would make a huge difference, but a faster Video card doesn't seem to help at all".
(2) Comparisons of each AGP card to a PCI-e card on a similar system. This would answer "how much is the slower AGP bus hurting my performance?
I have an old system that I'm thinking about upgrading, and this guide helped a lot. I thought of a couple things I would like to see in future tests, if possible.
(1) Maybe you could put some benchmarks with (a) stock clock settings, (b) CPU overclocked 10%, and (c) Vid card overclocked 10%. That way, we all could clearly see "oh, in this game, a faster CPU would make a huge difference, but a faster Video card doesn't seem to help at all".
(2) Comparisons of each AGP card to a PCI-e card on a similar system. This would answer "how much is the slower AGP bus hurting my performance?
So then I've got a question for you. If I mostly play fps shooters, do most fps games require more from the gpu or the cpu? Because I don't want to have my 3200+ bottlenecking my gaming only because it has an older architecture. Because you said that you tried FEAR at 3200+ speeds just for kicks and it only went up by 3 fps or so but is that a gpu centered game where the cpu isn't the issue or the other way around?
SynCroNiz3
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u really should of done games like hl2 or that use the hl2 engine because its really cpu dependent yah those cards will get high frames on games that use more gpu then cpu but when it comes to games that need cpu an u get into cpu intensive fights ur frames are gonna drop horribly.
that_aznpride101
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Okay, after looking at the benchmarks of this article, there's something wrong with my system. I have almost the exact same system, yet my benchmark for 3dmark 05 is not even close to what they have.
My system is very similar to the one tested, I have:
Athlon XP 2500+ Barton OC'ed to 2.1 Ghz
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe mb
1 gig DDR ram 400
Geforce 6800le AGP (unlocked to 12 pipes)
My graphics card is better than the Radeon 9700 Pro used in the article, so with my overclocked processor & graphics card, I'm at an advantage right?
They get 2,506 with the Radeon 9700 on 3dmark 05and I get 852 with my specs.
What's wrong with my system??
My system is very similar to the one tested, I have:
Athlon XP 2500+ Barton OC'ed to 2.1 Ghz
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe mb
1 gig DDR ram 400
Geforce 6800le AGP (unlocked to 12 pipes)
My graphics card is better than the Radeon 9700 Pro used in the article, so with my overclocked processor & graphics card, I'm at an advantage right?
They get 2,506 with the Radeon 9700 on 3dmark 05and I get 852 with my specs.
What's wrong with my system??
potoroo
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Interesting article but it let itself down badly by not including the 7600GS AGP as it's the most popular AGP card for people with older systems who still want some form of gaming capability. I'm seeing this in many gaming forums from Combat Flight Simulator 3 to Silent Hunter III. The type of people who've still got their Athlon XPs and P4s are the ones who are not dedicated to upgrading every six months and when they do want a new video card to keep their system alive they like the 7600GS because they don't have to mortgage their first born to get one (especially those outside the US).
I do wish THG would stop ignoring the 7600GS AGP and start giving it the respect its market popularity warrants.
I do wish THG would stop ignoring the 7600GS AGP and start giving it the respect its market popularity warrants.
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