All About Bitcoin Mining: Road To Riches Or Fool's Gold?

[smeezekitty]

But it forms its own basis for a government. Otherwise the difficulty wouldn't be dynamically adjusted.

 

[Darkman69]

But it forms its own basis for a government. Otherwise the difficulty wouldn't be dynamically adjusted.

IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH GOVERNMENT therefore it cannot be FIAT. You need to read and understand the defined meaning of FIAT money/currency before you post please. - Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law. The term fiat currency is used when the fiat money is used as the main currency of the country.

 

[Onus]

Intrinsic value is not essential to something being used as money (i.e. as a standard of value; a medium of exchange). For example, pieces of paper with engraving on them have no intrinsic value. Fiat currency is money because the parasites and their armed thugs say it is, not because of any intrinsic value. Congress was tasked in the Constitution with the maintenance of "sound money," but like many of their Constitutional obligations, have been derelict in that duty since they allowed Nixon to take the country off the gold standard in 1971.

 

[Onus]

The difficulty of bitcoin mining is not set by arbitrary whim, but by the mathematics of bitcoin, which set the initial block value and rate, and determined the time by which all existing bitcoins would be discovered. There is neither hide nor hair of any government involved in it.

 

[slomo4sho]

FIAT Currency means Government backed. Define FIAT Currency - Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law. The term fiat currency is used when the fiat money is used as the main currency of the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

The pursuit of money as a commodity is what has ruined the American economy.

Referencing wikipedia but can't even read the page:

The term fiat money has been defined variously as:

any money declared by a government to be legal tender.
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.
money without intrinsic value.

Reading comprehension does go a long way

 

[Darkman69]

The difficulty of bitcoin mining is not set by arbitrary whim, but by the mathematics of bitcoin, which set the initial block value and rate, and determined the time by which all existing bitcoins would be discovered. There is neither hide nor hair of any government involved in it.

FIAT Currency means Government backed. Define FIAT Currency - Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law. The term fiat currency is used when the fiat money is used as the main currency of the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

The pursuit of money as a commodity is what has ruined the American economy.

Referencing wikipedia but can't even read the page:

The term fiat money has been defined variously as:

any money declared by a government to be legal tender.[7]
state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[8]
money without intrinsic value.[9][10]

You are fighting a losing battle here please stop as you are in over your head. Once again Bitcoin is not FIAt end of story. You don't understand FIAT currency and you clearly do not understand how Bitcoin works. Please stop as you are confusing people that would like to get some proper knowledge on the topic.

 

[Onus]

The "value" of a bitcoin is what people, of their own volition, recognize it to be, not what is declared by law or other whim.

 

[Darkman69]

The "value" of a bitcoin is what people, of their own volition, recognize it to be, not what is declared by law or other whim.

That in an of itself could be said to be the "intrinsic" value of Bitcoin.

 

[smeezekitty]

*facepalm* I give up - this argument is going nowhere.

But I will say I will not accept bitcoin in its current form.

 

[Darkman69]

*facepalm* I give up - this argument is going nowhere.

But I will say I will not accept bitcoin in its current form.

It's not an argument. You don't even understand what Bitcoin is or how it works. Bitcoin does not as you say "But it forms its own basis for a government" that's absolutely false and not even on topic. You don't have to accept Bitcoin but please don't start a misinformation thread about this topic.

 

[smeezekitty]

*facepalm* I give up - this argument is going nowhere.

But I will say I will not accept bitcoin in its current form.

It's not an argument.

Ok, the what is it?

Still doesn't change the fact of the matter that bitcoin is a bad idea.

 

[slomo4sho]

You are fighting a losing battle here please stop as you are in over your head. Once again Bitcoin is not FIAt end of story. You don't understand FIAT currency and you clearly do not understand how Bitcoin works. Please stop as you are confusing people that would like to get some proper knowledge on the topic.

Oh the irony...

The "value" of a bitcoin is what people, of their own volition, recognize it to be, not what is declared by law or other whim.

That in an of itself could be said to be the "intrinsic" value of Bitcoin.

This is an arbitrary value not an intrinsic value. I have provided definitions of the words since you seem to be challenged by English language.

 

[Onus]

That's more of an imputed value. I'm pretty sure that only tangible, physical things for which a use exists can have intrinsic value.
Gold is a rather interesting case; other than in jewelry and some industrial settings (the latter of which would hardly have been relevant 2000 years ago), its primary use seems to have been as money. Its size and weight were probably key points that inspired the creation of "equivalent" alternatives. Many fiat currencies were at one point equivalent to a fixed amount of gold. Game-players and their parasite bed-mates realized this put limits on how much there could be (including how much they themselves could have), so they created fractional-reserve banking and other methods that would allow them to create money without needing the gold to back it up.

 

[Adam Russell]

After bitcoins hit the ultimate limit of 21 million then how do the miners get paid to keep doing the hashing calculations?

 

[Darkman69]

You are fighting a losing battle here please stop as you are in over your head. Once again Bitcoin is not FIAt end of story. You don't understand FIAT currency and you clearly do not understand how Bitcoin works. Please stop as you are confusing people that would like to get some proper knowledge on the topic.

Oh the irony...

There is no irony here. Bitcoin is not enforced by Government therefore it is not FIAT end of discussion. If you want to keep trolling I will just report you. Sound fair ?

 

[Onus]

Adam, bitcoin transactions typically include a miniscule fee imbedded in them. The miners extract this fee, which should remain sufficient to keep the network running. Actually, I think by 2140 it is likely that bitcoin will have been largely replaced, perhaps by another crypto-currency.
I see some misunderstanding in this thread (which various members, including myself, seem to be trying to clear up), but no trolling. I suspect that a more in-depth study of economics, fiat currency, monetary policy, etc. would be necessary to absolutely clear things up; let's all just stay civil whether or not that happens.
A fiat currency is money because the law says it is. In the US, that means dollars; I can pay any debt with them. There is no law requiring anyone to accept bitcoins as payment, therefor it is not a fiat currency. There are [unjust, unreasonable] laws on the books against barter (because barter transactions typically cannot be taxed in the usual sense, and the parasites are too enamored of unearned loot to "allow" it) which might be brought to bear against an alternate currency like Bitcoin, but that hasn't happened yet, and would likely fail.

 

[Martin Maat]

This emperor has no clothes on.

I liked reading the article but it is purely technical, disregarding the fact that bitcoin is just a speculative gambling game. People mine and accept bitcoins because they expect to find some fool who will give them real money for them. It is nothing by hot air backed by no one.

Currency typically drops when the issuer (the state) loses credibility. With bitcoin, there never has been a party backing its value. Anyone could start a new one tomorrow (and there are other ones). Yet, there is trade. It has nothing to do with currency, it is just a bunch of people trying to take advantage of others who don't understand economics.

 

[Onus]

That was a borderline troll post, but I prefer to believe it indicates a lack of understanding of trade mechanisms and the proper role of trust in human endeavors. Yes, dishonest game-players can (and have) manipulated the perceived value of bitcoins; but EVERY currency, real or fiat, operates based on its perceived value. Someone who thinks a dollar is worth less, will want more of them for the same product or service. If he thinks it is worth more, he'll accept less of them. That's how free exchange works.

 

[Darkman69]

There is no irony here. Bitcoin is not enforced by Government therefore it is not FIAT end of discussion. If you want to keep trolling I will just report you. Sound fair ?

I see now that you are blinded by your ignorance and arrogance to realize your fallacies even when they have been clearly shown to be wrong so go ahead and report away to your hearts content

Good day, Sir.

You don't understand the meaning of FIAT currency/money. FIAT currency essentially means that it's government enforced. Bitcoin is not Government enforced. You can't re arrange the English language because you don't understand something like Bitcoin. Please stop spreading misinformation about a topic you have a vague understanding of at best.

 

[DRosencraft]

The point is, the reason gold isn't used as a currency is precisely because it is limited. The reason for FIAT currency is that there is a system of regulation to it. Now, one can argue there is too much regulation, but regulation is itself important. For instance, BitCoin's problem if one envisions it as a currency to replace all currency, is that there isn't currently enough of it to be distributed in any worthwhile, equitable way. So, the creators of the system will have to determine how to introduce more BitCoins while trying to both balance equity and not terribly collapse value. Well, that's the same basic thing that happened with FIAT currency. A uniform currency was established, the number of notes had to increase for the sake of equity, doing so introduced other issues, and that had to be adjusted through more messing with the supply of money.

Those advocating for something like the Gold standard fail to recall the reason we got off that train - as a tangible good, inequity is near impossible to address or attempt to control. If in the end how much gold you have means everything, right now the US would have the most at over 8,000 tonnes, more than twice what the Germany or the IMF have, and they're numbers 2 and 3 on the list. That makes the problem of inequity even worse. You establish a return to the days of real wars over gold, rather than the still problematic but arguably less deadly price wars and economic policy wars.

You can curse the FIAT system and call the administrators of that system all the childish names you want. But a return to a static commodity based model isn't any better. As someone else said in their post, BitCoin may be on the right path, but ultimately they're still a good ways from the solution.

 

[Darkman69]

The point is, the reason gold isn't used as a currency is precisely because it is limited. The reason for FIAT currency is that there is a system of regulation to it. Now, one can argue there is too much regulation, but regulation is itself important. For instance, BitCoin's problem if one envisions it as a currency to replace all currency, is that there isn't currently enough of it to be distributed in any worthwhile, equitable way. So, the creators of the system will have to determine how to introduce more BitCoins while trying to both balance equity and not terribly collapse value. Well, that's the same basic thing that happened with FIAT currency. A uniform currency was established, the number of notes had to increase for the sake of equity, doing so introduced other issues, and that had to be adjusted through more messing with the supply of money.

Those advocating for something like the Gold standard fail to recall the reason we got off that train - as a tangible good, inequity is near impossible to address or attempt to control. If in the end how much gold you have means everything, right now the US would have the most at over 8,000 tonnes, more than twice what the Germany or the IMF have, and they're numbers 2 and 3 on the list. That makes the problem of inequity even worse. You establish a return to the days of real wars over gold, rather than the still problematic but arguably less deadly price wars and economic policy wars.

You can curse the FIAT system and call the administrators of that system all the childish names you want. But a return to a static commodity based model isn't any better. As someone else said in their post, BitCoin may be on the right path, but ultimately they're still a good ways from the solution.

You don't really understand this matter. Bitcoin is not trying to replace anything. Bitcoin is what it is a parallel digital crypto currency currency. The reason we don't use Gold is because it's kinda hard to transfer and carry on your person. The reason the (Gold Standard) can never work again is because you have to trust the same institutions that are currently ripping us off well with derivatives and paper money or gold. You are over analyzing Bitcoin and making a big deal out of nothing. Bitcoin in a simple medium of exchange of goods, products and services that's it and that's all.

 

[DRosencraft]

The point is, the reason gold isn't used as a currency is precisely because it is limited. The reason for FIAT currency is that there is a system of regulation to it. Now, one can argue there is too much regulation, but regulation is itself important. For instance, BitCoin's problem if one envisions it as a currency to replace all currency, is that there isn't currently enough of it to be distributed in any worthwhile, equitable way. So, the creators of the system will have to determine how to introduce more BitCoins while trying to both balance equity and not terribly collapse value. Well, that's the same basic thing that happened with FIAT currency. A uniform currency was established, the number of notes had to increase for the sake of equity, doing so introduced other issues, and that had to be adjusted through more messing with the supply of money.

Those advocating for something like the Gold standard fail to recall the reason we got off that train - as a tangible good, inequity is near impossible to address or attempt to control. If in the end how much gold you have means everything, right now the US would have the most at over 8,000 tonnes, more than twice what the Germany or the IMF have, and they're numbers 2 and 3 on the list. That makes the problem of inequity even worse. You establish a return to the days of real wars over gold, rather than the still problematic but arguably less deadly price wars and economic policy wars.

You can curse the FIAT system and call the administrators of that system all the childish names you want. But a return to a static commodity based model isn't any better. As someone else said in their post, BitCoin may be on the right path, but ultimately they're still a good ways from the solution.

You don't really understand this matter. Bitcoin is not trying to replace anything. Bitcoin is what it is a parallel digital crypto currency currency. The reason we don't use Gold is because it's kinda hard to transfer and carry on your person. The reason the (Gold Standard) can never work again is because you have to trust the same institutions that are currently ripping us off well with derivatives and paper money or gold. You are over analyzing Bitcoin and making a big deal out of nothing. Bitcoin in a simple medium of exchange of goods, products and services that's it and that's all.

I am responding to the idea some are pushing (not necessarily you) that BitCoin is a viable alternative to the existing currency structure. As you properly note BitCoin in its current form only really works alongside some other more established currency structure. I'm not saying BitCoin (the idea/entity as it was created) is trying to replace anyone or anything. Like I stated previously it is just an interesting experiment someone thought up. But there are many out there, and a few in this forum, that seem to think gold, the gold standard, or BitCoins are realistic alternatives. My point, which I think you might agree with, is that they are not.

 

[Darkman69]

The point is, the reason gold isn't used as a currency is precisely because it is limited. The reason for FIAT currency is that there is a system of regulation to it. Now, one can argue there is too much regulation, but regulation is itself important. For instance, BitCoin's problem if one envisions it as a currency to replace all currency, is that there isn't currently enough of it to be distributed in any worthwhile, equitable way. So, the creators of the system will have to determine how to introduce more BitCoins while trying to both balance equity and not terribly collapse value. Well, that's the same basic thing that happened with FIAT currency. A uniform currency was established, the number of notes had to increase for the sake of equity, doing so introduced other issues, and that had to be adjusted through more messing with the supply of money.

Those advocating for something like the Gold standard fail to recall the reason we got off that train - as a tangible good, inequity is near impossible to address or attempt to control. If in the end how much gold you have means everything, right now the US would have the most at over 8,000 tonnes, more than twice what the Germany or the IMF have, and they're numbers 2 and 3 on the list. That makes the problem of inequity even worse. You establish a return to the days of real wars over gold, rather than the still problematic but arguably less deadly price wars and economic policy wars.

You can curse the FIAT system and call the administrators of that system all the childish names you want. But a return to a static commodity based model isn't any better. As someone else said in their post, BitCoin may be on the right path, but ultimately they're still a good ways from the solution.

You don't really understand this matter. Bitcoin is not trying to replace anything. Bitcoin is what it is a parallel digital crypto currency currency. The reason we don't use Gold is because it's kinda hard to transfer and carry on your person. The reason the (Gold Standard) can never work again is because you have to trust the same institutions that are currently ripping us off well with derivatives and paper money or gold. You are over analyzing Bitcoin and making a big deal out of nothing. Bitcoin in a simple medium of exchange of goods, products and services that's it and that's all.

I am responding to the idea some are pushing (not necessarily you) that BitCoin is a viable alternative to the existing currency structure. As you properly note BitCoin in its current form only really works alongside some other more established currency structure. I'm not saying BitCoin (the idea/entity as it was created) is trying to replace anyone or anything. Like I stated previously it is just an interesting experiment someone thought up. But there are many out there, and a few in this forum, that seem to think gold, the gold standard, or BitCoins are realistic alternatives. My point, which I think you might agree with, is that they are not.

There's nothing wrong with using currency/money as a means of exchange of goods, services and ideals but it's the pursuit of currency/money as a commodity that will always end in a bad way. Bitcoin is a (more) sound alternative and debt based FIAT currency is not and that's the bottom line.

 

[smeezekitty]

bitcoin = sound alternative? I think not.

Computers and hardware is one of the most quickly changing technologies out there and thus very unstable.

 

[Darkman69]

bitcoin = sound alternative? I think not.

Computers and hardware is one of the most quickly changing technologies out there and thus very unstable.

Bitcoin is a (more) sound alternative to state enforced currency that only has value because it is imposed by the governments initiation of violence onto the people it was supposed to protect. "Computers are not unstable unless they are put together by an unstable person" Quote By Me. LOL