AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[szatkus]

Kaveri vs i5-2500k

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/226070?baseline=223722

SteamrollerB CPU is at the Sandy Bridge i5 level.

Or not.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/197997?baseline=223722

As it was explained before, that benchmark is very sensible to memory. The one that I selected uses 8GB for the i5-2500k. Yours uses 16GB and therefore the i5-2500k get bigger scores. In both cases Kaveri only uses 4GB of slow memory. Therefore my link gives a better comparison of Kaveri to an i5 than yours.

Unlike you want make the silly claim that an i5-2500k is fastest than an i5-2500k you are comparing apples to oranges.

No, they aren't sensitive to memory. I checked this few pages ago on my own CPU: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/281279?baseline=281293

8GB vs 8GB doesn't change things.

Probably it's because of turbo and different thermal room for different rigs.
But still I don't know how to explain things like this: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/120097?baseline=75030

Explained before and again the message that you quote. 8GB vs 16GB. The i3 with double ram get higher scores. The same that the i5-2500k with double RAM got higher scores.

Or not.
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/306360?baseline=281293

 

[szatkus]

Ok, let's check those Cinebenches.

Take a look at brand string:
http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/809f06c7_1387129105752-635x389.jpeg
http://www.techpowerup.com/img/13-12-30/129b.jpg
The one from 4chan is "AMD A10-7850K APU with Radeon(tm)(...)". Japanese screenshot shows "AMD A10-7850K APU with Radeon(TM) R7 Graphics". Clearly at least one is faked.

But we already know REAL brand string of A10-7850K. More or less.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1523227_10152048746160772_1997695494_o.jpg
Don't look at CPU-Z, it's too small. Brand string is displayed in that OC app. It's blurry but there is "R7" before "Graphics". "(TM)" is unreadable, but is looks "bigger" than lowercased "(tm)".
Yep, 4chan tricked us again. Is Japanese sample true? Probably.

And one more thing, Cinebench displays slightly different name: http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/qjin/2013/grudzien/Kaveri%20Cinebench.jpg
Looks like Cinebench cut off "(TM)" and "(R)" strings:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg84/jhchang69/CinebenchComparison.png
But not "(tm)":
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/289/cinebench144.png

And here the most stupid thing about it all. Kaveri probably will be the first CPU in AMD's history with... uppercased "(tm)" in name.
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/850/cpuz_5050e.jpg
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/981/amd_athlon_250_stock.jpg
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1289/1090T_idle.jpg
http://www.notebookcheck.com.cn/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/cpuz_cpu_87ec5a_02.gif
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviewimages/amd-richland-apu-review/cpuz-6800k.jpg
http://cdn2.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/AMD-FX-8350-CPU-Z.png

 

[juanrga]

Kaveri vs i5-2500k

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/226070?baseline=223722

SteamrollerB CPU is at the Sandy Bridge i5 level.

Or not.

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/197997?baseline=223722

As it was explained before, that benchmark is very sensible to memory. The one that I selected uses 8GB for the i5-2500k. Yours uses 16GB and therefore the i5-2500k get bigger scores. In both cases Kaveri only uses 4GB of slow memory. Therefore my link gives a better comparison of Kaveri to an i5 than yours.

Unlike you want make the silly claim that an i5-2500k is fastest than an i5-2500k you are comparing apples to oranges.

No, they aren't sensitive to memory. I checked this few pages ago on my own CPU: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/281279?baseline=281293

8GB vs 8GB doesn't change things.

Probably it's because of turbo and different thermal room for different rigs.
But still I don't know how to explain things like this: http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/120097?baseline=75030

Explained before and again the message that you quote. 8GB vs 16GB. The i3 with double ram get higher scores. The same that the i5-2500k with double RAM got higher scores.

Or not.
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/306360?baseline=281293

8GB vs 16GB at different speeds is not the same than 8GB vs 4GB at same speed.

8GB vs 4GB was the configuration of the test comparing Kaveri to the i5.

 

[juggernautxtr]

AMD'S Mantle will be more appetizing to developers, xbone and ps4 would be capable of using it.
Nvidea idea of pulling an intel will hurt them more than help,especially when most games will be developed for the consoles, then ported to pc, the games played on consoles will end up with bad ratings and twimtbp going down in flames.
AMD is playing this one right I think,nvidea will pay a price for trying to trap developers in to their card.(if people are even capable of putting 2 and 2 together anymore)

 

[szatkus]

8GB vs 16GB at different speeds is not the same than 8GB vs 4GB at same speed.

8GB vs 4GB was the configuration of the test comparing Kaveri to the i5.

I showed you that memory speed also doesn't significantly affect ALU and FPU benchmarks.

 

[de5_Roy]

AMD'S Mantle will be more appetizing to developers, xbone and ps4 would be capable of using it.
Nvidea idea of pulling an intel will hurt them more than help,especially when most games will be developed for the consoles, then ported to pc, the games played on consoles will end up with bad ratings and twimtbp going down in flames.
AMD is playing this one right I think,nvidea will pay a price for trying to trap developers in to their card.(if people are even capable of putting 2 and 2 together anymore)

mantle launch is already hitting snags, and that's just for the first game (exclusive for a while). coders are not deus ex machina that instantly adapt to new paradigm and crank out bug-free, fast and efficient softwares. gotta give them time. some devs are already grumpy but both sony and ms are keeping a tight lid on. still, some of the complaints will slip out in social media.

afaik, choosing x86 was to facilitate coders and development, not pc gaming. it doesn't make sense for sony and ms to help amd further pc gaming (except bait people and propaganda).

amd isn't devious enough like nvidia (or sony or ms) to take advantage of their situation. otherwise they wouldn't have the rug pulled off under them by ms, who officially stated they won't support mantle, right after amd hyped mantle with some vague wording (e.g. "close to metal", "console-like experience"). i don't expect sony nor ms to add mantle support to their consoles anytime soon, if ever. may be near the end of the lifecycle to attract enthusiasts. however, mantle's key functions being absorbed into directx would be great imo.

 

[jdwii]

With Mantle being delayed http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-announces-mantle-delayed-bf4-patch-now-expected-jan-2014_131686

And Amd supposedly having lower performance per clock then even what i estimated(i thought 25% reality is 15% with 11% lower clocks)
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/12/30/amd-kaveri-specs-and-cpu-performance-leak---weak-ipc.aspx

And according to their currunt road maps no 8 cores are getting made for the next 2 years from Amd besides the same PD design.

We have to ask our self's why is this happening to a company that made a design made for high core counts not performance per clock? Why create a design that kills latency to have more cores and then only make 4 integer cores and still have them share more then Intel's 4 core processors?

Either way lets hope Steamroller at least gives what i estimated it would 15% boost in CPU tasks.

Either way remember that the APU was running BF4 at 1080P with no video card the GPU should be at least 20% faster on average.

 

[de5_Roy]

We have to ask our self's why is this happening to a company that made a design made for high core counts not performance per clock?

tradeoff. they figured perf/clock will be irrelevant fast since single core perf is hitting a limit. and the design resembles server cpus.
they didn't anticipate a few things. the customer backlash from overhyping, the sudden (to them) surge of mobile computing, faster shrinking in pc market.

Why create a design that kills latency to have more cores and then only make 4 integer cores and still have them share more then Intel's 4 core processors?

i think amd didn't get expected perf/power from higher core sr cpu designs or are holding them the closest to their chest.
their new arm designs should take away a few key people.

Either way lets hope Steamroller at least gives what i estimated it would 15% boost in CPU tasks.

Either way remember that the APU was running BF4 at 1080P with no video card the GPU should be at least 20% faster on average.

if huma and hsa succeeds in accelerating parallel workloads, or some other way, kaveri might not need "moar cores". this is the best expected outcome though.

 

[jed]

Here's the flipside to your argument, anyone who purchased the 2600k when first released for business like
myself had 1 year and 10 month's of productivity and profit before the 8350 was released and to be truthful,
anyone running a 2600k today is still above anything AMD has to offer right now including 9590.

When time is money one can't wait almost 2 years for performance close to the 2600k,
in less then 1 month I recovered all monies spent on the entire system not just the cpu.

BTW my 2600k highest overclock was 5.2 and the 3770k was 4.9

Uhm... I think those who bought an i7 2600k or 2700k at original prices paid for having the best mainstream CPU of its time, which is very rightful to Intel no matter how unfair it might seem software wise to AMD's 8150 and all. And you have a valid point, but as valid as it might be, it is moot: when the i7 3770K was introduced, the 8350 was also introduced a couple of months later IIRC. Then, the value proposition changed a lot. I won't repeat what we all know, but Sandy was uncontested favoring Intel at its time (no sane person seeking a certain performance level would have waited 1 year), but Ivy has PD to stand its ground in Perf/$. Haswell could as well be a match to it taking price into the equation.

Now, in your "performance is king" kind of argument for business. Then why not an SB-E or IB-E right away for any performance build? They do offer better raw performance from the get go. Even the good old 980X is still prevalent in the """""aging""""" X58 chipset (and just to remark, notice the quotes around "aging"). We all know why; targeted performance of applications. The i7s are a (tad) better than the 8350 (and 6300/6350) when OC'ed; that's a fact, but they do cost more as well. I don't really know how you value 30s (maybe less? don't remember) of rendering time, for instance, in favor of any i7 over an 8350 (OC'ed for both camps), but I would argue that the difference might be meaningless in the long run, contrary to popular belief. You will spend more time IDLEing (watching YouTube, talking with co-workers, posting in tech forums , etc) than the CPU making intensive work worthy of the original price difference.

Cheers!

EDIT: Typos

Every business has a budget including the one I own, I had two computer's to update
the first was the E6600 which was replaced by the 2600k and the Q6600 replaced by
the 3770k.
After buying the 2600k I waited for AMD's 8150 and it turned out be nothing like they
said it was supposed to be, so as soon as Intel released the 3770k I purchased it the
next day, no one knew how the 8350 would perform, you know after 8150 hype fest.

 

[Master-flaw]

AMD'S Mantle will be more appetizing to developers, xbone and ps4 would be capable of using it.
Nvidea idea of pulling an intel will hurt them more than help,especially when most games will be developed for the consoles, then ported to pc, the games played on consoles will end up with bad ratings and twimtbp going down in flames.
AMD is playing this one right I think,nvidea will pay a price for trying to trap developers in to their card.(if people are even capable of putting 2 and 2 together anymore)

mantle launch is already hitting snags, and that's just for the first game (exclusive for a while). coders are not deus ex machina that instantly adapt to new paradigm and crank out bug-free, fast and efficient softwares. gotta give them time. some devs are already grumpy but both sony and ms are keeping a tight lid on. still, some of the complaints will slip out in social media.

afaik, choosing x86 was to facilitate coders and development, not pc gaming. it doesn't make sense for sony and ms to help amd further pc gaming (except bait people and propaganda).

amd isn't devious enough like nvidia (or sony or ms) to take advantage of their situation. otherwise they wouldn't have the rug pulled off under them by ms, who officially stated they won't support mantle, right after amd hyped mantle with some vague wording (e.g. "close to metal", "console-like experience"). i don't expect sony nor ms to add mantle support to their consoles anytime soon, if ever. may be near the end of the lifecycle to attract enthusiasts. however, mantle's key functions being absorbed into directx would be great imo.

Wish i had the link...but last i read Sony and MS hate Mantle. Mainly due to the fact that it gives APU's a leg up on consoles power and creates more competition in their market.
I don't think mantle would be much of a help for console development anyway....The kits they have are probaably a lot more versatile then mantle anyway.

 

[de5_Roy]

Wish i had the link...but last i read Sony and MS hate Mantle. Mainly due to the fact that it gives APU's a leg up on consoles power and creates more competition in their market.
I don't think mantle would be much of a help for console development anyway....The kits they have are probaably a lot more versatile then mantle anyway.

mantle doesn't give apus any advantage over consoles. moreover, it's impossible to build a $400 gaming pc with 8 core cpu and radeon hd 7850 class gfx like ps4 or even xbone(R). mantle doesn't really do anything much except improve graphics performance for amd gcn-based gpus (which still have minority marketshare in pcs). mantle's launch is the same as dell, hp et al launching chromebooks and android tablets in retaliation to surface rt and surface 2, and valve launching steam o.s. mantle is a push at ms to improve directx and to loosen it's domination a bit.
mantle wouldn't be helpful for consoles, it's designed for pcs. amd worded their advertisements in a way that hints at console-involvement. that's what made ms to come out and make that public statement.

 

[Master-flaw]

Wish i had the link...but last i read Sony and MS hate Mantle. Mainly due to the fact that it gives APU's a leg up on consoles power and creates more competition in their market.
I don't think mantle would be much of a help for console development anyway....The kits they have are probaably a lot more versatile then mantle anyway.

mantle doesn't give apus any advantage over consoles. moreover, it's impossible to build a $400 gaming pc with 8 core cpu and radeon hd 7850 class gfx like ps4 or even xbone(R). mantle doesn't really do anything much except improve graphics performance for amd gcn-based gpus (which still have minority marketshare in pcs). mantle's launch is the same as dell, hp et al launching chromebooks and android tablets in retaliation to surface rt and surface 2, and valve launching steam o.s. mantle is a push at ms to improve directx and to loosen it's domination a bit.
mantle wouldn't be helpful for consoles, it's designed for pcs. amd worded their advertisements in a way that hints at console-involvement. that's what made ms to come out and make that public statement.

Mantle is set to be bigger than just improving GCN card preformance. It's been stated that it will be open to Intel and Nvidea too as long as they throw their own support for it. it's the communication process between CPU and GPU that they're tightening up.
Not saying it does give apu's an advantage over consoles but it does make them more competitive, as well as entry Steambox's(some retail for as little as $500).
Kaveri will benefit even more so than top line P.C.'s for sure...it would be ridiculous for AMD to leave out their biggest market.

Was a Qoute from carmack that i was reading dug it up real quick:
http://www.worldsfactory.net/2013/09/26/carmack-microsoft-and-sony-could-be-hostile-to-mantle

I believe that if Mantle truly does live up to it's name it can make P.C. building A LOT cheaper. Not something M.S. and Sony really want.

 

[de5_Roy]

Mantle is set to be bigger than just improving GCN card preformance. It's been stated that it will be open to Intel and Nvidea too as long as they throw their own support for it. it's the communication process between CPU and GPU that they're tightening up.

that's the amd hype. since mantle is initially exclusive to dice, and tied to a minority of gpus in the pc market, neither intel nor nvidia will throw their weight behind it. well... they can if they want to. but i strongly doubt that. or.. what if intel's implementation far outperforms amd's (e.g. mantle-boosted core i5 4670R or 4c/8t core i7 4770R-class soc)?

Not saying it does give apu's an advantage over consoles but it does make them more competitive, as well as entry Steambox's(some retail for as little as $500).

yes, you can build one.. then what? steamboxes can be as cheap because the o.s. cost is minimal. in a non-linux pc, the o.s. costs money and adds to price. in consoles, sony and ms are selling those at a loss, o.s. comes installed on them. in pcs, linux gaming isn't anywhere near windows.
even if you build a steambox or a $500 pc, the pc is missing one of the (if not the) biggest advantages in console hardware - the customized northbridge and the cpu-igpu shared memory. kaveri has a similar controller, but according to the leaks and rumors, it is nowhere near close to the 100 GB/s (aggregate? i forgot the exact number) bw that xbone exposes let alone the 240~ GB/s of ps4. in comparison, intel's iris pro gets similar amount of bw from edram (but costs way more).

Kaveri will benefit even more so than top line P.C.'s for sure...it would be ridiculous for AMD to leave out their biggest market.

yes, mantle and bf4 will give a big push to kaveri.. but that's just one game. amd's exclusive deal with dice would prevent anyone else for a set amount of time. then there's the memory bw issue. i ranted before at amd not keeping the igpu well-fed while they redesigned their cpu cores to keep them well-fed. the igpus deserve high bandwidth.

Was a Qoute from carmack that i was reading dug it up real quick:
http://www.worldsfactory.net/2013/09/26/carmack-microsoft-and-sony-could-be-hostile-to-mantle
I believe that if Mantle truly does live up to it's name it can make P.C. building A LOT cheaper. Not something M.S. and Sony really want.

mantle could boost steamboxes, both are quite promising. but those won't be threatening the consoles. steamos is still in infancy.
actually steam o.s. could reduce p.c. cost. mantle would require a gcn card which most people might not opt to buy.

 

[jdwii]

Why is it that console fans only think about the console price not the games as well? PC's easily dominant an this area also my 1100T and radeon 6950HD can play BF4,COD ghost, NFS Rivals all at 1080P medium settings or better. Maybe my PC was always a next gen console lol.

 

[Master-flaw]

Mantle is set to be bigger than just improving GCN card preformance. It's been stated that it will be open to Intel and Nvidea too as long as they throw their own support for it. it's the communication process between CPU and GPU that they're tightening up.

that's the amd hype. since mantle is initially exclusive to dice, and tied to a minority of gpus in the pc market, neither intel nor nvidia will throw their weight behind it. well... they can if they want to. but i strongly doubt that. or.. what if intel's implementation far outperforms amd's (e.g. mantle-boosted core i5 4670R or 4c/8t core i7 4770R-class soc)?

Not saying it does give apu's an advantage over consoles but it does make them more competitive, as well as entry Steambox's(some retail for as little as $500).

yes, you can build one.. then what? steamboxes can be as cheap because the o.s. cost is minimal. in a non-linux pc, the o.s. costs money and adds to price. in consoles, sony and ms are selling those at a loss, o.s. comes installed on them. in pcs, linux gaming isn't anywhere near windows.
even if you build a steambox or a $500 pc, the pc is missing one of the (if not the) biggest advantages in console hardware - the customized northbridge and the cpu-igpu shared memory. kaveri has a similar controller, but according to the leaks and rumors, it is nowhere near close to the 100 GB/s (aggregate? i forgot the exact number) bw that xbone exposes let alone the 240~ GB/s of ps4. in comparison, intel's iris pro gets similar amount of bw from edram (but costs way more).

Kaveri will benefit even more so than top line P.C.'s for sure...it would be ridiculous for AMD to leave out their biggest market.

yes, mantle and bf4 will give a big push to kaveri.. but that's just one game. amd's exclusive deal with dice would prevent anyone else for a set amount of time. then there's the memory bw issue. i ranted before at amd not keeping the igpu well-fed while they redesigned their cpu cores to keep them well-fed. the igpus deserve high bandwidth.

Was a Qoute from carmack that i was reading dug it up real quick:
http://www.worldsfactory.net/2013/09/26/carmack-microsoft-and-sony-could-be-hostile-to-mantle
I believe that if Mantle truly does live up to it's name it can make P.C. building A LOT cheaper. Not something M.S. and Sony really want.

mantle could boost steamboxes, both are quite promising. but those won't be threatening the consoles. steamos is still in infancy.
actually steam o.s. could reduce p.c. cost. mantle would require a gcn card which most people might not opt to buy.

Actually Mantle has been up and running on Intel, and has been reported that the 3770K preforms better than the 8350(3570K falls behind both)...A bit sheepish but they need all the support they can get with this thing.
Time exclusivity with DICE? I'm sure that it's not a long enough deal to call it a one game pony. Unless AMD's really lost their touch(gone insane). I'm sure it's well with-in boundaries to disregard that deal when discussing whether or not it could pose a risk to consoles.

Yes, Nvidea has the Lions share of the market but this is why AMD has publicized Mantle to work on their cards as well(as long as they open their drivers to it)....If Mantle turns out to be as beneficial to the development process as AMD mentions, then I'm sure Nvidea won't have a choice. Question is...will AMD deliver?..it's still to early in Mantles dev. to tell...yes they have failed in recent years on the hardware end of things(mainly CPU's) but they still have strong departments in their corp.. it can go either way...

Also to note, Mantle getting delayed with BF 4 isn't a sign of anything to do with Mantle itself, as the development for that game has been proven to be sub-par to begin with.

All that aside...comparing specs is irrelevant when different/better software is released. Software can change everything.

 

[juanrga]

8GB vs 16GB at different speeds is not the same than 8GB vs 4GB at same speed.

8GB vs 4GB was the configuration of the test comparing Kaveri to the i5.

I showed you that memory speed also doesn't significantly affect ALU and FPU benchmarks.

800MHz vs 600MHz is not the same than 800Mhz vs 1MHz. And it is also irrelevant for 16GB vs 8GB

 

[szatkus]

8GB vs 16GB at different speeds is not the same than 8GB vs 4GB at same speed.

8GB vs 4GB was the configuration of the test comparing Kaveri to the i5.

I showed you that memory speed also doesn't significantly affect ALU and FPU benchmarks.

800MHz vs 600MHz is not the same than 800Mhz vs 1MHz. And it is also irrelevant for 16GB vs 8GB

Prove me wrong. You can also download Geekbench and put link to results here.

 

[-Fran-]

Every business has a budget including the one I own, I had two computer's to update
the first was the E6600 which was replaced by the 2600k and the Q6600 replaced by
the 3770k.
After buying the 2600k I waited for AMD's 8150 and it turned out be nothing like they
said it was supposed to be, so as soon as Intel released the 3770k I purchased it the
next day, no one knew how the 8350 would perform, you know after 8150 hype fest.

Yes, I agree with you. Waiting for the 8350 after the 8150 over-hype was a very hard decision, close to being a fanboi (you can mix hope and some other non-fanboi based arguments ). But, for instance, instead of getting the 3770K, you could have gotten another 2600K on discount on a Z77 or cheap Z68 (I got a 2700k for $150 the day PD came to the stores; can't beat that, haha).

--------------

I had a thought today, a weird one, but what if AMD could go QuadFather all over again with APUs. Slapping an improved HT "ring" to a dual socket for 2xAPU love would be amazing IMO. I would actually think, on one hand, it sounds amazing for bragging rights and doable, since they are going to make servers with that config, right? RIGHT?

A direct interconnect for the APUs would be better, but helluva more expensive per platform and not re-usable. Plus an APU re-design would be needed for it I guess.

The more I think about it, the less plausible it sounds 8(

Cheers!

 

[juggernautxtr]

AMD'S APU slowly getting stronger and stronger, the key I think is going to be PPU (parallel processing units) which is why they are implementing HSA as i understood, to take parallel processing to the next level. they been dumping money on grapghics like crazy, i think we are going to see some amazing stuff from AMD.
lets just hope steamroller going to get rolled out on FM2 or AM4, if i remember the board schedule from 2011 right new board was due 2014. am3 was to die this year in any account.

yuka
+/-250 dollars in crossfired APU's would be awesome, 8 cpu cores and dual graphics on the cheap.
board would be around 200+ bucks to if they could/would make one.(be one hell of a VR)
16 gigs of ram 1866+speed ram
700-800 dollars would be a viable beast.
maybe we should put a bug in AMD's ear about this.

 

[de5_Roy]

hmm.. asus should make a dual socket -WS motherboard that accepts kaveri and berlin apus (2 of each, no mix/match)?

 

[etayorius]

Damn i would buy Dual Socket FM2+ Board, just to cram 2 Kaveris.

That would be a an 8 Core with whatever GPU is in Kaveri as Xfire.

So anyone has a guess on the Price of Kaveri? i heard rumors about it may hit stores at about 150-160 USD.

 

[anxiousinfusion]

^ 150-160 is about right. Those inflated pre-order prices and ShopBLT estimates are way over the price range that AMD are targeting.

 

[Praise_Gaben]

I was wondering something: Why can't intel and AMD share the same socket like AMD and Nvidia share the same PCI-E bus? I can't find any reason. Or is it just because it has always been that way?

It would have been a lot easier if the sockets were just like ddr and pci-e.. although the manufacturers would probably sell substantial less motherboards. But it would benefit AMD and Intel at the same time.. you don't need a new motherboard anymore for upgrading a new cpu so the treshold is lower.

 

[etayorius]

I was wondering something: Why can't intel and AMD share the same socket like AMD and Nvidia share the same PCI-E bus? I can't find any reason. Or is it just because it has always been that way?

It would have been a lot easier if the sockets were just like ddr and pci-e.. although the manufacturers would probably sell substantial less motherboards. But it would benefit AMD and Intel at the same time.. you don't need a new motherboard anymore for upgrading a new cpu so the treshold is lower.

Well, Intel uses LGA which is quite different from AMD... can`t they come to some agreement? technically yes... but politically... you wont be seeing that anytime soon.

 

[Ags1]

New leaked opteron roadmap:

http://tweakers.net/nieuws/93422/gerucht-amd-richt-zich-minder-op-high-end-chips.html