AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[juanrga]

Guys [strike]jdwii[/strike] juanrga is correct ... stop trolling with the Celeron rubbish or I'll send you on a holiday from toms.

A discussion on the benchmarks from the other sites is more of interest.

Fixed it for you. Thanks

 

[logainofhades]

my youngest son want to build a gaming machine, to get him started putting in an A10 on fm2+ with an h50 water cooler, gonna cross fire it with a decent card thinking 7750 since other have had success.
waiting to see if kaveri will be evolutionary or revolutionary.
even if only evolutionary with good improvement will spring for that. other wise dropping a 6800k

For the price of an A10, board, and 7750, you could get him a superior FX 6300, board and a 7790. Kaveri is not going to beat FX. Hybrid Crossfire also still doesn't work very well.

 

[juggernautxtr]

my youngest son want to build a gaming machine, to get him started putting in an A10 on fm2+ with an h50 water cooler, gonna cross fire it with a decent card thinking 7750 since other have had success.
waiting to see if kaveri will be evolutionary or revolutionary.
even if only evolutionary with good improvement will spring for that. other wise dropping a 6800k

For the price of an A10, board, and 7750, you could get him a superior FX 6300, board and a 7790. Kaveri is not going to beat FX. Hybrid Crossfire also still doesn't work very well.

in all actuality this is his money and i told him the differances in the processors, he opted for the APU as it already has graphics, so he can start using it when he can get all the parts and then can build money for graphics card. he already bought a case and power supply for small form factor, so i am being proud papa at the moment. he doing awesome for only being 13.

 

[anxiousinfusion]

Speculations can be laid to rest. AMD today announced Mantle to be up to 45 percent faster than DirectX *in Battlefield 4. From a consumer perspective, that kind of boost is enough to make one favor a GCN product. http://apusilicon.com/amd-tech-day-and-kaveri-details-abound/

EDIT: This clock speed explanation supports what you have been saying, Jaun http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a5/900x900px-LL-a55c3ec8_amd_kaveri_tech_day_2014_011b.jpeg

 

[logainofhades]

my youngest son want to build a gaming machine, to get him started putting in an A10 on fm2+ with an h50 water cooler, gonna cross fire it with a decent card thinking 7750 since other have had success.
waiting to see if kaveri will be evolutionary or revolutionary.
even if only evolutionary with good improvement will spring for that. other wise dropping a 6800k

For the price of an A10, board, and 7750, you could get him a superior FX 6300, board and a 7790. Kaveri is not going to beat FX. Hybrid Crossfire also still doesn't work very well.

in all actuality this is his money and i told him the differances in the processors, he opted for the APU as it already has graphics, so he can start using it when he can get all the parts and then can build money for graphics card. he already bought a case and power supply for small form factor, so i am being proud papa at the moment. he doing awesome for only being 13.

I don't blame you, I would be proud too. I have another idea then, go with a 750k or 760k and an HD 7750 or 7770. They are generally pretty close in price. I think the bitcoin miners are starting to scoop up the lower end cards too because the price has gone up considerably on them. Even some of the older AMD cards that are capable are selling for outrageous prices on Ebay. I bought an HD 5850 not that long ago for like $63. Now I am seeing them for like twice that. :lol: Not to mention you don't need to buy the faster and generally more expensive ram that you need to for an APU to work properly.

 

[juanrga]

Speculations can be laid to rest. AMD today announced Mantle to be up to 45 percent faster than DirectX *in Battlefield 4. From a consumer perspective, that kind of boost is enough to make one favor a GCN product. http://apusilicon.com/amd-tech-day-and-kaveri-details-abound/

EDIT: This clock speed explanation supports what you have been saying, Juan http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a5/900x900px-LL-a55c3ec8_amd_kaveri_tech_day_2014_011b.jpeg

I predicted MANTLE version of BF4 to be 30-50% faster. Whereas the 'experts' in this thread predicted 'mantel' would be only a 5% faster. Good to know that I was wrong again

 

[juanrga]

As I said above the chinese site was not using final drivers and had throttling issues. The real Kaveri APU gives about 53% more GPU compute performance than Richland and about 37% more GPU gaming performance (DX11) than Richland

 

[griptwister]

poor amd. they still believe that casual gamers are people who play triple A titles at crap-to-low settings... casual gamers play with their tablets and their smarthphones and these silly apus are completely useless.

my celeron SB ($30) + gts 450 ($60) , beats any AMD apu setup out there.

ROFL!!!

As someone who has owned a GTS 450 and owns a A8 system. You're WAY wrong. Even with PD core... Celerons aren't impressive... Except for the little Quad core thing they got... that either is a baller, or will be one. Lol.

I've recently decided to build a mATX rig so FM2+ sounds like the best option for me

Yes, it is a shame that there aren't any 970 or 990fx M-ATX boards out there. I have the latest revision Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 with my FX 8320 in my spare AMD rig. It is all I could afford when I went to Microcenter for their $100 FX 8320 deal. I I multiplier bumped it to stock FX 8350 speeds, since the board supports the 8350, but I have no intentions of going any higher.

I was going to go that route as well... but I don't feel it safe to put a FX 8350 in a 780m LOL! So, I think I'll just do a few minor upgrades, and build my second mATX rig off spare parts. Which I have a lot of...

But I prefer to go APU cause it'll save me some $$$ I'm just excited to have a high end looking Rig and then have another one that I won't have to worry about carrying around a big case. LOL!

 

[jdwii]

Guys [strike]jdwii[/strike] juanrga is correct ... stop trolling with the Celeron rubbish or I'll send you on a holiday from toms.

A discussion on the benchmarks from the other sites is more of interest.

Fixed it for you. Thanks

Na man its your reading comprehension issue he clearly said jdwii and he meant the celeron vs APU discussion, but its ok not everyone is good at everything.

 

[jdwii]

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7750-vs-GeForce-GTS-450

yeah that 450 is faster........definately not with a celeron behind it.
a SB celeron won"t even play dcuo online.

TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Celeron-G540-vs-AMD-A10-6800K

an A6 4400m dual core will play dcuo, i had a celeron dual core laptop it won't even load dcuo.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/celeron-g540-g440_6.html#sect0

Lol are you kidding me it can barley beat a old athlon II a A10 6800K would laugh

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7750-vs-GeForce-GTS-450

yeah that 450 is faster........definately not with a celeron behind it.
a SB celeron won"t even play dcuo online.

TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Celeron-G540-vs-AMD-A10-6800K

an A6 4400m dual core will play dcuo, i had a celeron dual core laptop it won't even load dcuo.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/celeron-g540-g440_6.html#sect0

Lol are you kidding me it can barley beat a old athlon II a A10 6800K would laugh

thats even worse than my sarcasm

Yeah all you have to do is look up facts

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-a10-a8-a6_4.html#sect1
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/celeron-g540-g440_4.html#sect1
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/trinity-vs-ivy-bridge_8.html#sect0

yes yes, because dual core APUs are so much more impressive against an old athlon (only test i can found in common).

i was stating gaming performance in general between a cheap cpu + a midrange gpu instead of going all bonkers APU which again is useless as the need for a discrete card will be there down the road which defeats the purpose of an APU to begin with. that's what i3s and fx4300s are for.

sorry if i'm a bit off topic. point is $150 APU < $150 cpu+gpu setup in gaming. a $30 component is so much easier to replace (upgrade to an i3/i5) than $150 part. sorry.

and steamroller isn't going to change that.

Again that was not the point i never stated a dual core module the argument was about a A10 vs a Celeron, with a A10 6800K you can add a 7850HD(260X maybe 270X) and not be bottlenecked

 

[jdwii]

As I said above the chinese site was not using final drivers and had throttling issues. The real Kaveri APU gives about 53% more GPU compute performance than Richland and about 37% more GPU gaming performance (DX11) than Richland

Not stating the results are wrong but again we should wait until real sites review the processor. Not Amd

 

[jdwii]

Also look at Basemark CL and see what the benchmark actually does its not to CPU heavy in this slide the situation is making Intel seem worse in CPU tasks until you look at the A10 6800K score and compare it to the I5 which we already know is easily 40% more powerful(average some times twice as fast) compared to the 6800K.

 

[gamerk316]

Speculations can be laid to rest. AMD today announced Mantle to be up to 45 percent faster than DirectX *in Battlefield 4. From a consumer perspective, that kind of boost is enough to make one favor a GCN product. http://apusilicon.com/amd-tech-day-and-kaveri-details-abound/

EDIT: This clock speed explanation supports what you have been saying, Juan http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a5/900x900px-LL-a55c3ec8_amd_kaveri_tech_day_2014_011b.jpeg

I predicted MANTLE version of BF4 to be 30-50% faster. Whereas the 'experts' in this thread predicted 'mantel' would be only a 5% faster. Good to know that I was wrong again

"Up to". Just like a 8350 is "Up to" 3x as fast as a 2600k, in some subset of tasks.

Secondly, I predicted 10-15%. The 5% number was SPECIFICALLY for improvement in draw call performance.

Thirdly, NVIDIA already countered with gameworks. Like TressFX, I expect Mantle to be abandoned in short order.

Especially in regards to BF4, the fact there's a fairly significant performance bug in Win7 needs to be taken into account when benching. I'll go so far as to say you'll see significantly varied review differences based on OS choice.

And in regards to Kaveri, stop with the compute benchmarks when discussing CPU side performance. We already know the GPU is getting a fairly significant boost, hence why it crushes in compute. We know this. We're more interested in CPU improvements, since its a valid discussion if the CPU is powerful enough to make Kaveri a good stand alone mid-range gaming PC option, or if a stronger CPU and dGPU are still a requirement.

 

[jdwii]

Agreed gamer CPU performance figures are even more important now with this APU vs the A10 6800K mainly because there will be no more standalone CPU's for quite some time if ever coming from Amd based on their official roadmaps. We need this to be around the I5 Ivy-Sandy bridge level since there are only 4 cores if we even want to take Amd serious in gaming besides entree level. I doubt that it will come that close but you never know. I bet the 2500K will still be around 20% faster in more CPU oriented tests and heavy CPU stressing games. But the difference will probably not matter as much in the future if a lot of heavy computing is put on the GPU instead.

 

[etayorius]

Speculations can be laid to rest. AMD today announced Mantle to be up to 45 percent faster than DirectX *in Battlefield 4. From a consumer perspective, that kind of boost is enough to make one favor a GCN product. http://apusilicon.com/amd-tech-day-and-kaveri-details-abound/

EDIT: This clock speed explanation supports what you have been saying, Juan http://cdn.overclock.net/a/a5/900x900px-LL-a55c3ec8_amd_kaveri_tech_day_2014_011b.jpeg

I predicted MANTLE version of BF4 to be 30-50% faster. Whereas the 'experts' in this thread predicted 'mantel' would be only a 5% faster. Good to know that I was wrong again

"Up to". Just like a 8350 is "Up to" 3x as fast as a 2600k, in some subset of tasks.

Secondly, I predicted 10-15%. The 5% number was SPECIFICALLY for improvement in draw call performance.

Thirdly, NVIDIA already countered with gameworks. Like TressFX, I expect Mantle to be abandoned in short order.

Especially in regards to BF4, the fact there's a fairly significant performance bug in Win7 needs to be taken into account when benching. I'll go so far as to say you'll see significantly varied review differences based on OS choice.

And in regards to Kaveri, stop with the compute benchmarks when discussing CPU side performance. We already know the GPU is getting a fairly significant boost, hence why it crushes in compute. We know this. We're more interested in CPU improvements, since its a valid discussion if the CPU is powerful enough to make Kaveri a good stand alone mid-range gaming PC option, or if a stronger CPU and dGPU are still a requirement.

What you mean about MANTLE being abandoned? haha... TressFX on TombRaider was a demo, TressFX 2.0 will be superior and used by any Devs and Publishers who will Also support MANTLE, which is quite a huge list...

Cloud Imperium Games, Eidos-Montréal, Square Enix, Oxide Games, Activision and EA... AMD already stated that MORE will be announced soon, don`t get surprised by the next batch of Devs and Publishers supporting Mantle.

MANTLE has assured its`s own life for at least the next 4 years, 70% of most AAA titles are published by either EA or Activision, you`re either being extremely pesimistic or just want it to die off as fast as it can... because we all know how much you love Intel.

So no, unluckily for you... MANTLE will not die anytime soon, and prepare yourself for TressFX 2.0.

 

[gamerk316]

What you mean about MANTLE being abandoned? haha... TressFX on TombRaider was a demo, TressFX 2.0 will be superior and used by any Devs and Publishers who will Also support MANTLE, which is quite a huge list...

TressFX is dead. No one uses it. Everything TressFX can do, PhysX can do, and then some. Why use 10 API's to do 10 different things when one API can do all of them?

Cloud Imperium Games, Eidos-Montréal, Square Enix, Oxide Games, Activision and EA... AMD already stated that MORE will be announced soon, don`t get surprised by the next batch of Devs and Publishers supporting Mantle.

Those same publishers support PhysX. Oh wait, barely, for one graphical function.

It comes down to the fact AMD PAID THEM to use the API; OF COURSE THEY'LL USE IT! As little as possible. You can't mix API's cleanly without a LOT of headaches, so either:

A: You need to support a full DX11, and Mantle render path [and possibly a down-reved path for DX9]

OR

B: Use Mantel to accelerate one or two GPU heavy functions, while still doing 95% of the work in DX

MANTLE has assured its`s own life for at least the next 4 years, 70% of most AAA titles are published by either EA or Activision, you`re either being extremely pesimistic or just want it to die off as fast as it can... because we all know how much you love Intel.

No, I just don't want an API split. I remember the Glide/OGL/DX days, where different cards get different features, and I do NOT want to go down the route of "If you want better physics, go NVIDIA, but if you want better lighting affects, go AMD".

DX has standardized everything, and made sure everyone in the market has some baseline to adhere to, and MSFT has done a very good job keeping it updated over the years.

And I call it the way I see it; just like I called Larabee a failure back when JDJ and others were claiming it was going to revolutionize graphics performance. I called for AMD to do something akin to APU's BEFORE they even purchased ATI. But at the end of the day, Intel has the performance crown, and I don't see AMD taking the steps to make up the difference. That hardly makes me a fanboy.

 

[griptwister]

I might sound like a madman, but hear me out. What if the APU's GPU can be used as a dedicated PPU (if you will) for Tess FX? Or even do something special with games that use MANTLE?

I'm willing to bet, that the difference between the Steam Roller Core vs the sandy bridge i5 core will be with in 5% Maybe not per clock, per say... Only cause of lack of L3. But I think we'll be Really frickin close. I'm purchasing a Gigabyte sniper board the moment I see THW benchmarks with some decent numbers. I am looking forward to excavator APUs already. I'm thinking about going with a 7700K. I already have a dGPU In my main rig ready to go. May as well go for the cheaper option. Plus, screw red, I think AMD pulls off Green better than Nvidia

 

[Cazalan]

Kaveri back on SOI. So why the clock speed reduction?

 

[de5_Roy]

Kaveri back on SOI. So why the clock speed reduction?

i am still going through a huge pile of ces news, but i haven't seen anywhere amd saying kaveri is using soi. they said (in a promo slide, as usual) that kaveri is using 28nm shp node and balancing the apu cost them clockrate while offset by 20% ipc boost (over what?).

 

[griptwister]

You guys might want to view this... looks promising...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axyHkKn_e80

 

[Cazalan]

Kaveri back on SOI. So why the clock speed reduction?

i am still going through a huge pile of ces news, but i haven't seen anywhere amd saying kaveri is using soi. they said (in a promo slide, as usual) that kaveri is using 28nm shp node and balancing the apu cost them clockrate while offset by 20% ipc boost (over what?).

The slide is from CES2014 Sunday the 5th.

28nm SHP was supposed to be their PD-SOI or FD-SOI shrink from 32nm SHP which Trinity/Richland are made on. That would indicate SOI rather than bulk and could explain the long long delay.

Others saying they think it's a typo and should be HPP instead. I'm sure there will be time to clarify over the week.

 

[palladin9479]

Gamer, I think me and you once had a discussion about Windows NT's psychotic scheduler and why I will use affinity to lock in high performance on single thread workload applications. NT really likes to swap threads around a ton and takes a very short sighted view on the matter, it's why CPU TDP turbo's are so unpredictable.

 

[de5_Roy]

The slide is from CES2014 Sunday the 5th.

28nm SHP was supposed to be their PD-SOI or FD-SOI shrink from 32nm SHP which Trinity/Richland are made on. That would indicate SOI rather than bulk and could explain the long long delay.

Others saying they think it's a typo and should be HPP instead. I'm sure there will be time to clarify over the week.

finally found the only (so far) mention of shp node, it was for 20nm
http://www.globalfoundries.com/newsroom/2010/20100901_Roadmap.aspx
BS of news mentioned a 28nm shp node on another promo slide
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/9/11/rumors-14nm-node-and-450mm-wafers-by-2015.aspx
but glofo points to 28nm hpp only, on their website
http://www.globalfoundries.com/technology/32-28nm.aspx
shp may be buried in there somewhere, i dunno...

edit:

new motherboards for kaveri
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7626/msi-motherboards-at-ces-2014-kaveri-and-socketed-kabini
http://www.techpowerup.com/196474/biostar-releases-latest-amd-fm2-dual-graphics-motherboard-the-a58md.html

polish site pure pc's kaveri summary (apparently it was under nda)
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33570-kaveri-presentation-leaked-fails-to-impress
disregard the skeptical tone.

new kabini apus
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013110201_Details_of_upcoming_AMD_Jaguar_APUs.html

 

[juanrga]

jdwii Basemark CL is measuring GPU compute. This was said before. No sure why people here insist on misunderstanding. Also CPU performance was discussed before.

gamerk All your predictions about MANTLE have been shown to be wrong. Why do you insist?

Cazalan We already had this discussion during months. Kaveri is bulk. From slide 17

Steamroller: An x86-64 Core Implemented in 28nm Bulk CMOS

Some claim "SHP", was a typo, others that SHP means custom (Super) HPP. GF original SHP was canceled. It was discussed also in this thread during months.

 

[andy1998]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOOe9PUyICk Amd Kaveri PC breifcase MOD watercooled playing BF4. Pretty cool.