AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[jdwii]

lol Ubuntu crappy Linux version i hate that crappy side bar.

 

[8350rocks]

lol Ubuntu crappy Linux version i hate that crappy side bar.

You can easily install KDE or some other GUI if you want...windows does not really even give you that option...that is part of the appeal of linux, customizability runs strong with a linux distro. Does it take more knowledge to customize it? Well, sure...however, is it worth it? Absolutely.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Unless AMD knew at the time that Direct X12 wasn't intended for PCs. Microsoft could have kept it for their consoles only. Then AMD releases Mantle and forced Microsofts hand.

Microsoft has a bigger mouth so eventually whatever they say will become the "truth".

Bingo!

As Mantle technology began appearing in actual games, AMD officials wondered aloud whether a new version of DirectX would ever arrive, given Microsoft's strong focus on Xbox. Mere weeks later, here we are, and at first blush DirectX 12 appears awfully similar to Mantle. (That's what happens when you poke the bear!)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2109596/directx-12-vs-mantle-comparing-pc-gamings-software-supercharged-future.html

Also

Suddenly Microsoft actually cares about pc gaming

Microsoft's new DirectX, then, is an obvious challenge to widespread Mantle adoption. Interestingly, the language Microsoft used in its DirectX 12 announcement was oddly reminiscent of marketing materials AMD has long used to promote Mantle: the phrase "closer to the metal" stands out, suggesting that Microsoft is well aware of AMD's API push.

I think that MS cares a bit about PC gaming. It is one of their biggest why we are better than Mac arguments. Otherwise I don't think we would have gotten DX11 at all.

The above links are not reporting the old Microsoft strategy when developed and released DX11, but the new situation with Windows 8, Surface, phones, and all that. Valve has given extensive talks on why Microsoft didn't care about game developers anymore with the new Windows 8 and why they and other developers switched to linux then.

It is the same recent situation that forced developers to ask AMD to develop MANTLE.

Microsoft is doing a 180º change in strategy. DX12 was not planned. All the above links claim so. Recall also Roy public talk about "No DX12".

The second link does not work.

The first one is opinion. Are they inside of Microsofts design team? We know very little about what they may or may not be developing.

As well with the XB1 they still have to develop DirectX for it and if they can design one to give it a performance boost, why would they not?

Xbox is one of their biggest markets with XBL and the money they make off of game sales.

As for 8, you are seeing it wrong. Microsoft is trying to have a one OS experience. 8 itself included 11.2 to utilize tiled resources. But in the end they want people to be able to go from the desktop to a tablet to a phone with the same experience and I think that is a smart move. Apple doesn't even have that nor have seen any development for a OSX version for the iPhone.

The DX12 announcement is because of Valve as well.

Valve said they got better performance from OGL in Linux than DX in Windows. COLOR ME SURPRISED! haha.

What better way to tell MS "we'll take away your XBox candy and Windows honey gamers, muahaha!" than stating they're faster and better.

Now, the idea might have been from 4 years ago and all, but since OGL has had extensions since like a bazillion years ago, it has always been there. AMD just played the "hey, look at me doing something no one knows it already exists!".

Could be factual incorrect, but its still funny to think the guys at Redmond got angry/fired up with MANTLE+Valve.

Cheers!

And Microsoft has now more reasons to be worried. Intel, AMD, and Nvidia have given a join conference on reducing overhead on OGL and promise us from 7 to 15 times more performance

OpenGL Vs DirectX: Nvidia, AMD And Intel Confirm OGL Can Unlock Performance Gains 15 Times That Of DX! Will PC Games Switch To OpenGL?

Ahhh the good ol insane performance gains promise. Of course we will have to see this to be able to believe it.

One issue I have with OpenGL, and a lot of open source, is that they don't get the proper support to make it viable. If OpenGL got the support it needs, like DX has from Microsoft, it would be great. But without it there will be issues.

Anyone remember RAGE? None of the drivers, AMD or NVidia, had the right OGL driver when RAGE hit. Bit DX is normally not as much of an issue.

Same mistake the past wouldn't be confused with the present.

If you look at the past, when DX11 was almost the only choice. you find a Microsoft-exclusive AMD company that didn't really care about Linux and a Nvidia company which was labeled as the worst company to work with, by Linux leaders.

Check it now: Nvidia has opened its hardware, released tons of technical documentation, is heavily contributing with open source linux devs, and is participating in the development of SteamOS. AMD has claimed in public that are not anymore Windows-exclusive company and are heavily contributing to linux drivers. The last version of their open-source drivers already provides a 80% of the performance of the closed ones, and even can provide more performance in some special cases.

I find nothing wrong with them doing that. They are doing it for money. But does that mean Linux will suddenly jump up and take over? I doubt it.

As I said, Linux needs the support MS offers as well as a easy way to network an entire system.

You can easily install KDE or some other GUI if you want...windows does not really even give you that option...that is part of the appeal of linux, customizability runs strong with a linux distro. Does it take more knowledge to customize it? Well, sure...however, is it worth it? Absolutely.

Sure it is nice. But what happens if you run into an issue? You pretty much are out on your own.

Windows is supported my the developer and that is the advantage it has.

 

[de5_Roy]

AMD FX-670K CPU Shows Up in the Wild
http://www.techpowerup.com/199179/amd-fx-670k-cpu-shows-up-in-the-wild.html
the strange thing about this one is that it's a richland based igpu-neutered cpu, not vishera.

edit: this not for trollbaiting fx users into "ooh, amd released a richland cpu with fx branding so amd's standalone cpus are dead!". oem model numberings tend to be messed up.

 

[colinp]

lol Ubuntu crappy Linux version i hate that crappy side bar.

I've been a happy openSUSE user for quite a few years now, and using Linux exclusively outside of work for more than 8 years.

The great thing about Linux is that you have so much choice in terms of the experience you want to have, from the "just works" thing right down to the "compile everything" level, and within that, you can choose your desktop, etc. And when things go wrong, you can normally just google search the error message you see and you'll be 5 mins away from a solution.

The main historical limitation has been in gaming, but even that is improving.

 

[juanrga]

Unless AMD knew at the time that Direct X12 wasn't intended for PCs. Microsoft could have kept it for their consoles only. Then AMD releases Mantle and forced Microsofts hand.

Microsoft has a bigger mouth so eventually whatever they say will become the "truth".

Bingo!

As Mantle technology began appearing in actual games, AMD officials wondered aloud whether a new version of DirectX would ever arrive, given Microsoft's strong focus on Xbox. Mere weeks later, here we are, and at first blush DirectX 12 appears awfully similar to Mantle. (That's what happens when you poke the bear!)

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2109596/directx-12-vs-mantle-comparing-pc-gamings-software-supercharged-future.html

Also

Suddenly Microsoft actually cares about pc gaming

Microsoft's new DirectX, then, is an obvious challenge to widespread Mantle adoption. Interestingly, the language Microsoft used in its DirectX 12 announcement was oddly reminiscent of marketing materials AMD has long used to promote Mantle: the phrase "closer to the metal" stands out, suggesting that Microsoft is well aware of AMD's API push.

I think that MS cares a bit about PC gaming. It is one of their biggest why we are better than Mac arguments. Otherwise I don't think we would have gotten DX11 at all.

The above links are not reporting the old Microsoft strategy when developed and released DX11, but the new situation with Windows 8, Surface, phones, and all that. Valve has given extensive talks on why Microsoft didn't care about game developers anymore with the new Windows 8 and why they and other developers switched to linux then.

It is the same recent situation that forced developers to ask AMD to develop MANTLE.

Microsoft is doing a 180º change in strategy. DX12 was not planned. All the above links claim so. Recall also Roy public talk about "No DX12".

The second link does not work.

The first one is opinion. Are they inside of Microsofts design team? We know very little about what they may or may not be developing.

As well with the XB1 they still have to develop DirectX for it and if they can design one to give it a performance boost, why would they not?

Xbox is one of their biggest markets with XBL and the money they make off of game sales.

As for 8, you are seeing it wrong. Microsoft is trying to have a one OS experience. 8 itself included 11.2 to utilize tiled resources. But in the end they want people to be able to go from the desktop to a tablet to a phone with the same experience and I think that is a smart move. Apple doesn't even have that nor have seen any development for a OSX version for the iPhone.

The DX12 announcement is because of Valve as well.

Valve said they got better performance from OGL in Linux than DX in Windows. COLOR ME SURPRISED! haha.

What better way to tell MS "we'll take away your XBox candy and Windows honey gamers, muahaha!" than stating they're faster and better.

Now, the idea might have been from 4 years ago and all, but since OGL has had extensions since like a bazillion years ago, it has always been there. AMD just played the "hey, look at me doing something no one knows it already exists!".

Could be factual incorrect, but its still funny to think the guys at Redmond got angry/fired up with MANTLE+Valve.

Cheers!

And Microsoft has now more reasons to be worried. Intel, AMD, and Nvidia have given a join conference on reducing overhead on OGL and promise us from 7 to 15 times more performance

OpenGL Vs DirectX: Nvidia, AMD And Intel Confirm OGL Can Unlock Performance Gains 15 Times That Of DX! Will PC Games Switch To OpenGL?

Ahhh the good ol insane performance gains promise. Of course we will have to see this to be able to believe it.

One issue I have with OpenGL, and a lot of open source, is that they don't get the proper support to make it viable. If OpenGL got the support it needs, like DX has from Microsoft, it would be great. But without it there will be issues.

Anyone remember RAGE? None of the drivers, AMD or NVidia, had the right OGL driver when RAGE hit. Bit DX is normally not as much of an issue.

Same mistake the past wouldn't be confused with the present.

If you look at the past, when DX11 was almost the only choice. you find a Microsoft-exclusive AMD company that didn't really care about Linux and a Nvidia company which was labeled as the worst company to work with, by Linux leaders.

Check it now: Nvidia has opened its hardware, released tons of technical documentation, is heavily contributing with open source linux devs, and is participating in the development of SteamOS. AMD has claimed in public that are not anymore Windows-exclusive company and are heavily contributing to linux drivers. The last version of their open-source drivers already provides a 80% of the performance of the closed ones, and even can provide more performance in some special cases.

I find nothing wrong with them doing that. They are doing it for money. But does that mean Linux will suddenly jump up and take over? I doubt it.

As I said, Linux needs the support MS offers as well as a easy way to network an entire system.

You can easily install KDE or some other GUI if you want...windows does not really even give you that option...that is part of the appeal of linux, customizability runs strong with a linux distro. Does it take more knowledge to customize it? Well, sure...however, is it worth it? Absolutely.

Sure it is nice. But what happens if you run into an issue? You pretty much are out on your own.

Windows is supported my the developer and that is the advantage it has.

Link corrected

Suddenly Microsoft actually cares about pc gaming

How do you know that people from first link aren't inside Microsoft team or know someone?

They are boosting XB1 now because of their faults at initial design and Sony/MANTLE competition.

I know that Microsoft tried to have one OS experience. I also know that they emphasized phone/tablet over desktop and failed miserably at all. There is one good reason why Apple has one OS for tablet/phone and other OS for desktops. Microsoft is backpedaling with next versions of windows and recovering some basic desktop stuff.

 

[gamerk316]

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

Since Juanrga likes AMD sponsored charts:

 

[-Fran-]

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

Since Juanrga likes AMD sponsored charts:

One thing I didn't get from the article and that graph... Is that "optimized DX11 driver" or "DX12 driver layer over DX11"? I would imagine the first one being truth and that being the case, AMD needs to polish their drivers a lot more.

All in all, that is a good showing from nVidias part. Glad to see they really got bitten in their butts by MANTLE, haha. We all win.

Cheers!

 

[de5_Roy]

All in all, that is a good showing from nVidias part. Glad to see they really got bitten in their butts by MANTLE, haha. We all win.

Ditto.

 

[juanrga]

I don't want to derail the thread with linux discussion. Thus will post this and will stop unless someone grossly misinterpret me or needs more info.

1) Share market is not 2%, but about 10% on the desktop. Several sites explain how that marketing 1--2% figure is fabricated by giving more weight to American sites than European or by using other statistic tricks.

I manage statistics from my own site and last month 10.9% of users have linux installed. I find interesting that market share that I can measure agrees with the with official claims from linux experts.

Steam shows a low market share because of the lack of native games for linux.

This is all for desktop, where linux has the smaller share. If one counts phone/tablet and other markets then number of linux users is very superior to windows users. About 3:1 or something as that. In supercomputers and other serious stuff linux has about 99% of market share and windows is almost inexistent.

2) If your WIFI or any other hardware doesn't work the problem is the hardware-maker, not the OS. It is the hardware-maker who makes the drivers for the OSs. Some only make drivers for Windows, but this is a special case. Linux detects automatically over 90% of modern hardware.

In my case, my linux distro did detect automatically any hardware and even did detect automatically my network settings. With Windows I have to download drivers from hardware-maker site or install from a given CD/DVD. I have to install special program to access to network and have to configure the settings by myself.

I don't need to install and configure antivirus or firewalls.

3) Linux is customization. I can replicate Windows 7 desktop. Or I can replicate Apple OSX desktop or I can do a complete different desktop adapted to my needs and that nobody else has. Or I can eliminate the desktop and work only with a windows manager. Or I can load a tiling window manager the mondays and Fridays an a windows-like desktop the rest of days.

Next photos are from same ubuntu but with different desktops: unity, KDE, XFCE, gnome3,...

Of course, each one of those is configurable as well. This is a XFCE desktop modified by the user

Here one linux desktop modified to look as Mac OS

Configuration is almost infinity. I can eliminate the buttons from the windows or add more, move them from right to left or just make the windows borderless and pseudo-transparent... I can configure other things as well. I can do a tiny linux OS that loads only on RAM and is superfast. I can do one that only uses keyboard and no mouse to manage the windows. I can do one with tons of fancy stuff just to see windows user astonished with desktop visual effects. I can do a live USB and port my linux OS to any computer, using it without install...

4) Installing a program from outside the software center is so simple as downloading the deb archive (for Debian based distros such as Ubuntu or Mint) from some site or using a CD/DVD/USB, click on the deb archive and select install. The rest is automatic. With internet on, the own OS will search and download needed additional packages if are needed.

 

[juanrga]

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

Since Juanrga likes AMD sponsored charts:

I did already know that. I also know you missed this one

showing the DX11 overhead.

You missed that slide in the same way like you missed my question about Microsoft providing close to metal access now.

 

[colinp]

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

Since Juanrga likes AMD sponsored charts:

I really love how Nvidia put two graphs side by side, one starting at 0, the other at 48. Nice touch. And where is AMD's DX11 score for Thief?

 

[gamerk316]

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

Since Juanrga likes AMD sponsored charts:

One thing I didn't get from the article and that graph... Is that "optimized DX11 driver" or "DX12 driver layer over DX11"? I would imagine the first one being truth and that being the case, AMD needs to polish their drivers a lot more.

All in all, that is a good showing from nVidias part. Glad to see they really got bitten in their butts by MANTLE, haha. We all win.

Cheers!

From what I read, their next DX11 driver.

I did already know that. I also know you missed this one



showing the DX11 overhead.

You missed that slide in the same way like you missed my question about Microsoft providing close to metal access now.

I was showing DX11/Mantle results. DX12 was irrelavent for that point.

Steam shows a low market share because of the lack of native games for linux.

Steam picks up whatever OS you are running on at that point in time. And it didn't budge after Valve started porting their stuff over.

I don't need to install and configure antivirus or firewalls.

I don't have to either. [Except for a REALLY old Linksys that doesn't play nice with EA's server settings; forced disconnects after 5 minutes when the app "phones home". Which is SAD, because I found the problem back in the BF2142 launch, emailed EA tech support multiple times the EXACT function giving them grief, and a decade later, their games are still affected by the bug.]

The problem with Linux is that there's always something that plays badly with some choice of config, be it Pulseaudio/ALSA, Gnome/KDE, or whatever. And it always goes back to "go on the internet and figure it out yourself". Or "Enter a half dozen console commands". That is the sole reason why Linux will never reach mainstream adoption.

 

[Cazalan]

AMD FX-670K CPU Shows Up in the Wild
http://www.techpowerup.com/199179/amd-fx-670k-cpu-shows-up-in-the-wild.html
the strange thing about this one is that it's a richland based igpu-neutered cpu, not vishera.

edit: this not for trollbaiting fx users into "ooh, amd released a richland cpu with fx branding so amd's standalone cpus are dead!". oem model numberings tend to be messed up.

They reassigned Athlon for the low power Jaguar socketed AM1 parts, so FX gets reassigned for the APUs with GPUs fused off. I thought they would do this with the Kaveri parts instead but looks like they still have lots of Richland to move.

 

[king smp]

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

Since Juanrga likes AMD sponsored charts:

One thing I didn't get from the article and that graph... Is that "optimized DX11 driver" or "DX12 driver layer over DX11"? I would imagine the first one being truth and that being the case, AMD needs to polish their drivers a lot more.

All in all, that is a good showing from nVidias part. Glad to see they really got bitten in their butts by MANTLE, haha. We all win.

Cheers!

From what I read, their next DX11 driver.

I did already know that. I also know you missed this one



showing the DX11 overhead.

You missed that slide in the same way like you missed my question about Microsoft providing close to metal access now.

I was showing DX11/Mantle results. DX12 was irrelavent for that point.

Steam shows a low market share because of the lack of native games for linux.

Steam picks up whatever OS you are running on at that point in time. And it didn't budge after Valve started porting their stuff over.

I don't need to install and configure antivirus or firewalls.

I don't have to either. [Except for a REALLY old Linksys that doesn't play nice with EA's server settings; forced disconnects after 5 minutes when the app "phones home". Which is SAD, because I found the problem back in the BF2142 launch, emailed EA tech support multiple times the EXACT function giving them grief, and a decade later, their games are still affected by the bug.]

The problem with Linux is that there's always something that plays badly with some choice of config, be it Pulseaudio/ALSA, Gnome/KDE, or whatever. And it always goes back to "go on the internet and figure it out yourself". Or "Enter a half dozen console commands". That is the sole reason why Linux will never reach mainstream adoption.

Ubuntu is ALMOST there.
I tried out Ubuntu on my 12 year old and she was able to do all the things she normally does.

 

[de5_Roy]

They reassigned Athlon for the low power Jaguar socketed AM1 parts, so FX gets reassigned for the APUs with GPUs fused off. I thought they would do this with the Kaveri parts instead but looks like they still have lots of Richland to move.

'guess we'll be seeing model numbers being moved around for the next few months. i really wish amd would bring all kabini apus/socs under one model name and the kaveris (i.e. "bigger apus") under another one.

 

[jdwii]

AMD FX-670K CPU Shows Up in the Wild
http://www.techpowerup.com/199179/amd-fx-670k-cpu-shows-up-in-the-wild.html
the strange thing about this one is that it's a richland based igpu-neutered cpu, not vishera.

edit: this not for trollbaiting fx users into "ooh, amd released a richland cpu with fx branding so amd's standalone cpus are dead!". oem model numberings tend to be messed up.

sadly this is nothing more than a joke.

 

[jdwii]

lol Ubuntu crappy Linux version i hate that crappy side bar.

I've been a happy openSUSE user for quite a few years now, and using Linux exclusively outside of work for more than 8 years.

The great thing about Linux is that you have so much choice in terms of the experience you want to have, from the "just works" thing right down to the "compile everything" level, and within that, you can choose your desktop, etc. And when things go wrong, you can normally just google search the error message you see and you'll be 5 mins away from a solution.

The main historical limitation has been in gaming, but even that is improving.

Yeah not saying i don't like linux/unix being a network admin i easily find a reason for it however i prefer windows server it's a LOT easier. However i can't stand installing things on linux and i hate having to always confirm that i'm root on the system being more a hardware guy i hate dealing with software at that level.

 

[jdwii]

Spoiler

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-Talks-DX12-DX11-Efficiency-Improvements

Since Juanrga likes AMD sponsored charts:

One thing I didn't get from the article and that graph... Is that "optimized DX11 driver" or "DX12 driver layer over DX11"? I would imagine the first one being truth and that being the case, AMD needs to polish their drivers a lot more.

All in all, that is a good showing from nVidias part. Glad to see they really got bitten in their butts by MANTLE, haha. We all win.

Cheers!

From what I read, their next DX11 driver.

I did already know that. I also know you missed this one



showing the DX11 overhead.

You missed that slide in the same way like you missed my question about Microsoft providing close to metal access now.

I was showing DX11/Mantle results. DX12 was irrelavent for that point.

Steam shows a low market share because of the lack of native games for linux.

Steam picks up whatever OS you are running on at that point in time. And it didn't budge after Valve started porting their stuff over.

I don't need to install and configure antivirus or firewalls.

I don't have to either. [Except for a REALLY old Linksys that doesn't play nice with EA's server settings; forced disconnects after 5 minutes when the app "phones home". Which is SAD, because I found the problem back in the BF2142 launch, emailed EA tech support multiple times the EXACT function giving them grief, and a decade later, their games are still affected by the bug.]

The problem with Linux is that there's always something that plays badly with some choice of config, be it Pulseaudio/ALSA, Gnome/KDE, or whatever. And it always goes back to "go on the internet and figure it out yourself". Or "Enter a half dozen console commands". That is the sole reason why Linux will never reach mainstream adoption.

Agreed gamer, i never didn't have an issue with linux its not really linux its the support from software developers and drivers. I still try it however every 6 months or so to like it. I'm not a huge fan of using the terminal and regardless of what the linux fanboys say its used a lot if you want to use it for anything other then just basic stuff. Really it does allow more customization but in the history a lot of that customization is not 100% stable. Not once did i ever encounter a time where linux is more stable then windows even on the server side. However i only work at a smaller company that doesn't really need a huge server.

I also never found times where this or that was 300% faster like linux fanboys usually state i found it to be 5-10% faster at best in real world programs.

 

[vmN]

Yeah not saying i don't like linux/unix being a network admin i easily find a reason for it however i prefer windows server it's a LOT easier. However i can't stand installing things on linux and i hate having to always confirm that i'm root on the system being more a hardware guy i hate dealing with software at that level.

Then you aren't very familiar with *nix. I would prefer to work in a debian enviroment than a windows server any day of the week.

I'm never been asked or need to confirm that i'm indeed root. Just set it up correctly and there shouldn't be the huge problems.

 

[juanrga]

I was showing DX11/Mantle results. DX12 was irrelavent for that point.

Since DX12 includes MANTLE, I added that as well, just to show that Nvidia hardware also run faster when DX11 bloatware is avoided. Nvidia, in the slide that I gave you, claims 3--4x overhead for DX11.

P.S.: Microsoft Server? LOL!

 

[palladin9479]

Pfft Linux, you and your graphical interface. Solaris, the real mans operating system. The only reason the GUI exists is to have more terminals open.

Linux still isn't really there for mass Enterprise deployments. It works great as an appliance where a vender provides support for the entire box and the local admins are really just configuring it for local operations vs building it from scratch. Otherwise it requires too much administrator man hours to continuously manage and secure. MS has made their entire business model around the ease of Enterprise administration. Configuring, updating, adding, removing and securing a 1000 NT clients isn't anymore man hour intensive then managing and securing 100 NT clients. Servers require a bit more work as you need to actually configure whatever service your using, afterwards you can mange it the same as clients. As an example, one of our sites has an NT team of five people who manage a few thousand clients with about 400 NT servers. Out of that five one is a SQL DBA and two are AD/Exchange guys leaving two for SCCM and web-services. The AD/Exchange guys help out with SCCM package deployments though. And that's a small datecenter, other ones are much larger with about the same manpower. The Solaris / Oracle / LoB App stuff is done by a different team.

We did a work analysis to determine if we could save money by switching to a Linux based enterprise and the result was a resounded "no". The software costs for all those MS licenses is nothing compared to what our yearly labor expenses would of been. We would of had to hire more people and paid them more (MS admins are cheap compared to Linux) which would of ballooned our operating costs. So instead we run core Enterprise services using NT solutions and use Solaris / Linux solutions for the custom Line of Business stuff since our (expensive) Solaris guys are also comfortable doing Linux stuff on the few appliances we have.

 

[jdwii]

Yeah i really never cared what people thought about Windows server i personally feel like others use unix/linux to save money. At my company we use Windows server and its compatible with everything and really stable its also never been compromised. However again unix/linux fanboys will tell you otherwise even though neither system is completly safe only uneducated biased people will tell you that. Microsoft will always play an important rule in the computing world even if people don't like it. Again i can only talk from a network administrator point of view as well as a hardware dude, based on my personal experience windows is Superior in compatibility and usability.

 

[palladin9479]

Honestly it's biggest bane is it's level of customization. It makes version control and platform testing a nightmare. In the professional world you can't just rush out there and grab the latest update listed under "stable". You need to run it in a test environment first and ensure it's won't create secondary or tertiary compatibility problems that cost you millions of USD. Due to the sheer level of variation and customization in the Linux software ecosystem, it's impossible to be 100% sure any particular update will work with all the software you have on your platform. The develops of gnome aren't the develops of OpenSSH who aren't the developers of OpenSSL who aren't the kernel developers / ect. So you need to independently test and verify each update to every piece of software separately, it quickly becomes a management nightmare. Then do that for all you services and clients. What most places do it purchase a "service", which is an appliance who's software ecosystem is managed by a third party company that does all the testing and certification for that specific system and provides any security updates to the customer as a packaged rollup or an emergency release. These are the hidden costs that most home enthusiasts or entry level folks don't really understand, they just see MS Server X with this big price tag and instantly think "dude that's just a rip off you can do it with Linux and this free open software Y" and wonder what their companies senior engineers are doing.

Now for small business's and person use Linux makes a ton of sense. Both are small scale deployments that allow for a single administrator / manager to provide all the TLC necessary.

The funny thing is that there are companies selling desktop management services / computing services. What they do is license out a Linux distribution, typically CenTOS or some other RHEL based distro (Debian's license prevents it from being used this way) then do version control and which versions of which packages are installed and what way they are configured. Add their own secret sauce applications for central management and viola "Transparent Portals OS" is created. They then sell this product as a license to companies wanting to "use linux" along with management services and support for that product. They release support packs and security updates for the new "Transparent Portals OS" and do the aforementioned platform testing prior to releasing those updates.

And thus you have enterprise client's running "Linux" doing the exact same thing that clients running "Microsoft" do in the exact same way. It's not cheaper as you still need to pay the service provider for the licensing and support. It's not "open" as you can't tinker and modify the baseline otherwise you'll lose that expensive support you paid for. So essentially your doing the exact same thing on the exact same hardware but instead of a "MS" logo when you turn on you get a "Transparent Portals OS" logo.

 

[sarinaide]

Mantle is interdependent upon drivers also, since AMD drivers are still evolving for Mantle support those numbers will clearly be effected once AMD rolls out updates, so what Nvidia have shown is that 3-4 sets of drivers and a faster GPU gets you just about better results than first release Mantle.

I'll await more reviews as time goes on instead of relying on Nvidia opinions, this said as a user of a GTX670. Nvidia are seriously butthurt and its getting tedious if not monotonously annoying. Nvidia's business model is to periously similar to Intel's and since I have been using Nvidia since early 2000's bar a patch in between 2011-2013 all I can say is I am disappointed how they seem to run mouths at will. As a former owner of a GTX780 only to have been blindsided with a 780ti being released 2 months later at the same cost only as a diversery to AMD's release of the R9 290 series still grates me.