AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[jdwii]

jdwii you might as well buy a console if your recommending a pentium and 250X. You proclaim to build many of these pentium gaming boxes but yet you have not tested one? Or is it you only test when you unload services and background programs to fool the buyer into thinking how great it is. Nice way to do business.

I see now you just wanted to argue with someone yesterday.

Although the discussion over banks(although i stand by what i say) will be stopped i will stand by what i claim a Pentium and a 250X is Superior to gaming then a A10 i ran several benchmarks many times. I stand by what i sell and the people who buy the builds i make(i don't own a business its just free lance)never complain about anything. I do not turn off any background services and i always install AVG free. Under general use i will admit a A10 is better it even feel's faster but for gaming no, just no unless its also paired with a video card.

This looks like next neverending Phenom II X4 vs i3 discussion, where no one is right, because every game is different.

It is one of those battles its a 770GTX vs 280X battle.
To be fair however nether a A10 or Pentium+250X is good enough for years to come . Like i said a 6300+265 is really what i try to tell people to get but all they see is that 150$ saving's getting a Pentium and 250X so sad. Keep in mind people i run on a Amd i love my A8 3520M in my laptop that kicks but and i really like my 8350fx and its only getting better with next gen games.

 

[szatkus]

jdwii you might as well buy a console if your recommending a pentium and 250X. You proclaim to build many of these pentium gaming boxes but yet you have not tested one? Or is it you only test when you unload services and background programs to fool the buyer into thinking how great it is. Nice way to do business.

I see now you just wanted to argue with someone yesterday.

Although the discussion over banks(although i stand by what i say) will be stopped i will stand by what i claim a Pentium and a 250X is Superior to gaming then a A10 i ran several benchmarks many times. I stand by what i sell and the people who buy the builds i make(i don't own a business its just free lance)never complain about anything. I do not turn off any background services and i always install AVG free. Under general use i will admit a A10 is better it even feel's faster but for gaming no, just no unless its also paired with a video card.

This looks like next neverending Phenom II X4 vs i3 discussion, where no one is right, because every game is different.

It is one of those battles its a 770GTX vs 280X battle.
To be fair however nether a A10 or Pentium+250X is good enough for years to come . Like i said a 6300+265 is really what i try to tell people to get but all they see is that 150$ saving's getting a Pentium and 250X so sad. Keep in mind people i run on a Amd i love my A8 3520M in my laptop that kicks but and i really like my 8350fx and its only getting better with next gen games.

I have something slightly worse than Pentium and A10. Except one game it's good enough, but recently I'm thinking about i7-5820K. I have one thing that takes about 40 minutes on my PC and 12 threads could help

 

[jdwii]

Agreed man i love my 8 core over its power in things i really care about and that is video encoding.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/04/octo-core-intel-chips-incoming-this-autumn/

I actually thought Intel would force people to pay 1500$ vs 1000$ to bad i'm not rich.

 

[szatkus]

Agreed man i love my 8 core over its power in things i really care about and that is video encoding.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/04/octo-core-intel-chips-incoming-this-autumn/

I actually thought Intel would force people to pay 1500$ vs 1000$ to bad i'm not rich.

Fortunetly 5820 is "just" 500$ (for me rather more, because... Europe). Cheaper than 3930K.

Edit: correction, 5930K will be 500$, 5820K will be cheaper. Darn, I'm not used to prices in dollars.

BTW, Intel's most expensive CPU always cost 999$. Similar with AMD many years ago.

 

[cdrkf]

I do think this attitude of 'AMD will never catch Intel' is a bit pessimistic. Agreed Intel are well ahead, however AMD have been in this position before (then they released Athlon, leading up to them overtaking Intel with Athlon 64).

I'm fairly sure AMD has a good idea of what Intel are up to and what to expect, so they will be designing a core from the ground up *with that target in mind* and not simply *trying to match what Intel has now* (which for a business would be suicide). They need to release a core that is comparable (or preferably faster) as AMD don't have the time / resources to release new cores as often as Intel.

Worst case the new core will still be significantly faster than what AMD has now (and current Intel processors) even if in execution it doesn't match Skylark.

 

[de5_Roy]

I'm fairly sure AMD has a good idea of what Intel are up to and what to expect, so they will be designing a core from the ground up *with that target in mind* and not simply *trying to match what Intel has now* (which for a business would be suicide).

amd and arm are good match because neither is chasing absolute performance. all they need is to offer a large percentage of intel's or whatever is the standard for high performance while significantly undercutting intel's prices at various price points. amd's own cpus/apus have done this successfully for years. moreover, arm is vocal about perf/watt, small dies and low prices.
i think this is what 8350rock was trying to hype earlier. amd doesn't need to outperform skylake. all it needs is offer what i mentioned before. that's good enough for business and for value seekers. keep in mind that intel is working to bring their hedt cpus down to mainstream core i7 price level, haswell-e will start this trend and the wellsburg platform is very feature-rich. i can't comment on reliability or end performance since i haven't read any p/reviews.
if you read recent arm socs news, you'll notice that several soc vendors are offering hardware h.e.v.c., 4k support. if small, cheap arm socs can offer features like these at a fraction of intel cpus' (e.g. core i3/i5) prices, and turn up in integrated (content consumption) devices like tablets, smart tvs, set top boxes and aio/laptop pcs, intel stands to lose a lot.

 

[szatkus]

I do think this attitude of 'AMD will never catch Intel' is a bit pessimistic. Agreed Intel are well ahead, however AMD have been in this position before (then they released Athlon, leading up to them overtaking Intel with Athlon 64).

It was different time. CPUs were simpler and AMD's 180 nm was great.

 

[jdwii]

i don't even have all that stuff running on my 8 core. Just not me to have stuff open that doesn't need to be open

When i game on lower-end hardware i put very little in the background i build many Pentium builds BTW

I do not turn off any background services and i always install AVG free.

This is a contradiction of your previous posts and lowering the bar to fit your narrative.

What pentium do you match with the 250x ?

I only dropped to an apu to show you the cost difference not that it was faster.

This is not a argument but a discussion, a weak one on your part due to you not being specific. So post up this phenomenal Pentium build you sell so many of and i will answer to that specially.

I do want to point out you could not build anything cheaper that can play games, than the 5600 i posted. other than parroting the 250x has 2-3 times the gpu performance.

It is a Pentium G3220+250X both of these cost 160$ and a good Intel board is around 45-50$. This build continuously outperforms the A10 7850K in gaming but loses in general application use. What is so hard to see about that a A8 machine would cost less(60$) and would be more suited for a 350$ PC build not the 400$ build that i provide. Again i do not turn off any background services(including AVG) i just don't run everything on the computer at once and then show them a game. I would also like to state tomshardware also agree's with my choice in the Pentium

 

[jdwii]

AMD will never catch Intel....The FX line is a joke man....the are okay but still its pretty laughable....

The reason why i say never is over the prediction unit and the weakness in fabrication and Intel has the money to waste. Unless global foundries team up with a bigger player(one with resources like intel) i do not see this changing.

Juan made good points as to why Amd was faster back in the athlon day's.

 

[Fidgetmaster]

no man the G3320 is slow as hell....and no point having a 250x....

 

[jdwii]

no man the G3320 is slow as hell....and no point having a 250x....

Please refer yourself to reviews
http://www.legitreviews.com/intel-pentium-g3220-processor-review_137016/6

To state such a thing would be stating a I5 is slow as hell which it isn't. Even in watch dogs its even with a Phenom II x4 980 and a Steamroller quad core.
http://www.techspot.com/review/827-watch-dogs-benchmarks/page5.html
Also these are a older model as well. Expect haswell to be around 5% faster.

Nothing to special about a 250X(7770GHz-little weaker then a 6850HD which was even weaker then a 5850)

 

[Fidgetmaster]

Its still pretty slow haha

 

[-Fran-]

Its still pretty slow haha

I agree with Fidgetmaster. I expected that the gimp on the Pentium wouldn't be noticeable, but the lack of AVX and the cache is too darn noticeable.

Also... Let's see... I have plans to retire my A8 3850 (Stock clocks, GeminII M4 on top), so I'm following the "cheapo" arguments closely. I was debating myself with an i5 not-K + 250X (low profile) or an A10. The price difference is big, but the i5 will last longer keeping the same thermal envelope and power, me thinks. This is an HTPC all rounder (I play in it as well when we have people comin'), so making it a Steam Machine is not out of scope.

Arguments for one or the other?

I can also play the "wait and see" card for Skylard (LARD, geddit?! ... ... Don't worry, I know my way out...)

Cheers!

 

[iron8orn]

High end desktop is dead. No money in it for AMD. Them trying to bring to market a new CPU would only lose them money at this point.

AMD being late to the party and needing something to Compete....That sums them up very well currently haha

Dude come on man its AMD.... you might have to be doing that speculating for awhile haha

AMD will never catch Intel....The FX line is a joke man....they are okay but still its pretty laughable....

http://www.hsafoundation.com/

I think such great companies and academics working together is nothing to push aside. Mantle is really only the tip of the iceberg.
The past is really only that and AMD will have it's day again.

 

[iron8orn]

I would like to see AMD make some price cuts on the 990fx motherboards and make a package deal when purchased with a 6350/8350.

The 6300 just has to low of a stock clock and the 970 motherboards ehh... really only a few are good and all those lower end cheap as hell models that perform horribly need to be pulled off the market.

 

[Fidgetmaster]

I speaking strictly on their CPU's.. their GPUs are totally acceptable and very well pleased/impressed with them and yes Mantle really is awesome and seen some unbelievable increases....

 

[Fidgetmaster]

Yes they should cut prices on 990 boards...because of exactly how very few of actually decent 970 boards....

 

[esrever]

AMD isn't the ones who price their motherboards.

 

[iron8orn]

Yeah but they could throw some pressure down the line and start inspecting models that are known to be shit.

Like listen up, we be AMD so all you lowbies gonna help us make shit right haha

 

[jdwii]

i don't even have all that stuff running on my 8 core. Just not me to have stuff open that doesn't need to be open

When i game on lower-end hardware i put very little in the background i build many Pentium builds BTW

I do not turn off any background services and i always install AVG free.

This is a contradiction of your previous posts and lowering the bar to fit your narrative.

What pentium do you match with the 250x ?

I only dropped to an apu to show you the cost difference not that it was faster.

This is not a argument but a discussion, a weak one on your part due to you not being specific. So post up this phenomenal Pentium build you sell so many of and i will answer to that specially.

I do want to point out you could not build anything cheaper that can play games, than the 5600 i posted. other than parroting the 250x has 2-3 times the gpu performance.

It is a Pentium G3220+250X both of these cost 160$ and a good Intel board is around 45-50$. This build continuously outperforms the A10 7850K in gaming but loses in general application use. What is so hard to see about that a A8 machine would cost less(60$) and would be more suited for a 350$ PC build not the 400$ build that i provide. Again i do not turn off any background services(including AVG) i just don't run everything on the computer at once and then show them a game. I would also like to state tomshardware also agree's with my choice in the Pentium

I had a nice long post showing how you twisted the discussion from a 6300 vs i3 to a pentium and 250x vs 750k, but i deleted it so i will just say i do not agree. But are you seriously holding out a g3258 as a comparison to your g3220 saying TH agrees with you. the g3220 runs great on games until a person starts loading there programs, facebook,dropbox offies 360, steam, orgin etc all run services in the background at startup, unless your trying to convince me that your builds are only used from start to stop only playing games. console ?

As i stated i agree with you on that just saying compared to a 750K the pentium wins both are really to weak to really use for a long time. When they load all their programs their performance will take what a 20% hit? Compared to the 20$ less budget they will have to now get a 250 DDR3 edition which would be a much bigger difference in gaming then 20%.

 

[jdwii]

Its still pretty slow haha

I agree with Fidgetmaster. I expected that the gimp on the Pentium wouldn't be noticeable, but the lack of AVX and the cache is too darn noticeable.

Also... Let's see... I have plans to retire my A8 3850 (Stock clocks, GeminII M4 on top), so I'm following the "cheapo" arguments closely. I was debating myself with an i5 not-K + 250X (low profile) or an A10. The price difference is big, but the i5 will last longer keeping the same thermal envelope and power, me thinks. This is an HTPC all rounder (I play in it as well when we have people comin'), so making it a Steam Machine is not out of scope.

Arguments for one or the other?

I can also play the "wait and see" card for Skylard (LARD, geddit?! ... ... Don't worry, I know my way out...)

Cheers!

ask palladin he uses a 6800k for htpc i use a 3670k for mine +,- as your 3850. 7600k would be my choice.

Is it over the magical number of 4 vs 2? Cores are just numbers if 1 core is twice as powerful as 2 that means it will even be a little bit faster(ask gamer) then double the performance over software scaling and latency issues.

 

[jdwii]

Its still pretty slow haha

I agree with Fidgetmaster. I expected that the gimp on the Pentium wouldn't be noticeable, but the lack of AVX and the cache is too darn noticeable.

Also... Let's see... I have plans to retire my A8 3850 (Stock clocks, GeminII M4 on top), so I'm following the "cheapo" arguments closely. I was debating myself with an i5 not-K + 250X (low profile) or an A10. The price difference is big, but the i5 will last longer keeping the same thermal envelope and power, me thinks. This is an HTPC all rounder (I play in it as well when we have people comin'), so making it a Steam Machine is not out of scope.

Arguments for one or the other?

I can also play the "wait and see" card for Skylard (LARD, geddit?! ... ... Don't worry, I know my way out...)

Cheers!

ask palladin he uses a 6800k for htpc i use a 3670k for mine +,- as your 3850. 7600k would be my choice.

Is it over the magical number of 4 vs 2? Cores are just numbers if 1 core is twice as powerful as 2 that means it will even be a little bit faster(ask gamer) then double the performance over software scaling and latency issues.

Lets not get back to 4vs2. But No it is not, the 7600k is rumored to run a 45w while still delivering good gaming performance
http://hothardware.com/Reviews/AMD-Kaveri-Arrives-A87600-APU-Review/?page=6#!8Apd4

For the TDP that is nice
Edit. I hate it i got a bad 8350fx i almost want to RMA it. Hate having only a 4300mhz clock Anything higher than a 1.3250V gets to hot on my heatsink(212+) and at that voltage only 4.3Ghz is stable. Might just enable turbo mode and play with that now maybe get a 300mhz boost in turbo speed . Maybe these new Fx9000 chips are making the 8350fx lower bin chips

 

[jdwii]

i don't even have all that stuff running on my 8 core. Just not me to have stuff open that doesn't need to be open

When i game on lower-end hardware i put very little in the background i build many Pentium builds BTW

I do not turn off any background services and i always install AVG free.

This is a contradiction of your previous posts and lowering the bar to fit your narrative.

What pentium do you match with the 250x ?

I only dropped to an apu to show you the cost difference not that it was faster.

This is not a argument but a discussion, a weak one on your part due to you not being specific. So post up this phenomenal Pentium build you sell so many of and i will answer to that specially.

I do want to point out you could not build anything cheaper that can play games, than the 5600 i posted. other than parroting the 250x has 2-3 times the gpu performance.

It is a Pentium G3220+250X both of these cost 160$ and a good Intel board is around 45-50$. This build continuously outperforms the A10 7850K in gaming but loses in general application use. What is so hard to see about that a A8 machine would cost less(60$) and would be more suited for a 350$ PC build not the 400$ build that i provide. Again i do not turn off any background services(including AVG) i just don't run everything on the computer at once and then show them a game. I would also like to state tomshardware also agree's with my choice in the Pentium

I had a nice long post showing how you twisted the discussion from a 6300 vs i3 to a pentium and 250x vs 750k, but i deleted it so i will just say i do not agree. But are you seriously holding out a g3258 as a comparison to your g3220 saying TH agrees with you. the g3220 runs great on games until a person starts loading there programs, facebook,dropbox offies 360, steam, orgin etc all run services in the background at startup, unless your trying to convince me that your builds are only used from start to stop only playing games. console ?

As i stated i agree with you on that just saying compared to a 750K the pentium wins both are really to weak to really use for a long time. When they load all their programs their performance will take what a 20% hit? Compared to the 20$ less budget they will have to now get a 250 DDR3 edition which would be a much bigger difference in gaming then 20%.

well lets build consensus on that. chrome alone will take 16%, firefox even more. ++++.
would you agree testing sites need to do real world test to determine the viability of using a cpu.?

I couldn't agree more

 

[Cazalan]

I do think this attitude of 'AMD will never catch Intel' is a bit pessimistic. Agreed Intel are well ahead, however AMD have been in this position before (then they released Athlon, leading up to them overtaking Intel with Athlon 64).

It was different time. CPUs were simpler and AMD's 180 nm was great.

It's more than that. At the time AMD got in influx of designers that worked on the DEC Alpha. That led AMD to make the push to 64bit and other things like the Hypertransport bus. Things that took Intel a while to catch up on.

http://www.hypertransport.org/docs/news/Digitimes-Processor-War-01-27-06.pdf

 

[jdwii]

I never went fx for myself, but when i get one on my bench running hot i look at the airflow in the case if the past and cooler is good. your 990 board is certainly capable of running higher.

Yeah i know but as soon as i put my CPU voltage to 1.350V it just gets to hot and i redid the thermal paste 3 times(cleaned with rubbing alcohol as always). I think its over my chip having a low VID.