AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[8350rocks]

The only tablet I would like to see is the discovery project tablet AMD made. I told them if they ever "lost" one I would be much appreciative...LOL!

Yeah that did look nice. I think AMD Mullins looks about the best fit for tablets right now. Sadly it looks destined to be bunged into bargain basement, under specified net books, rather than in a nice sleek tablet with a good quality screen *and* a decent battery.

This is the problem, many of the AMD A8 / A10 APU's would have been superb basis for decent laptops with a nice combination of gfx and cpu power (when you consider most laptops now are using the dual core ULV Intel parts), however all the offerings available are stuck with 768p screens, mechanical hard drives, single channel memory and pathetic speakers. It doesn't help that the kind of people working in computer shops in the UK don't know what they're talking about, and will blindly recommend inferior Intel products over AMD because 'its a better brand'... Ok AMD kit isn't the fastest at the top end, but if you have two £400 15" laptops, one has been built around an Atom (stupid but so many OEMs do this) and the other has an A8, and the guy recommends the Atom machine....

That does not just happen in the UK, it is here in the US as well...sadly...some people are just morons.

 

[Cazalan]

Given AMD's current portfolio of products, the only real thing they could offer you on FM2+ (beyond what they do now) would be a 3 module APU with a smaller graphics portion. That would actually make a lot of sense, but would require an additional die. At the moment I think all APUs are harvested from a single die (unless they make a separate smaller one of the dual cores?). Still given they can squeeze "12 computer cores" onto a die, offering a 6 + 6 might be a more balanced solution for some than the 4 + 8 configuration of the 7850K.

I'd buy a 6+2 but yeah I think they only make 1 or maybe 2 Kaveri die (desktop+mobile) due to volumes.

 

[gamerk316]

I knew the xbox one wasn't going to sell anywhere near as good as the PS4 over its horrible hardware consoles fans are not as dumb as people think they are. I even knew Windows 8 was going to be a horrible ride as well for Microsoft as well as Windows server 2012(which we are not getting at my place). Hope next Windows Server and Windows 9 turns things around at Microsoft. The thing that really concerns me is Nintendo i'm hoping they can turn things around at this point i think they should team up with Steam that would solve all of Nintendo's problems it would fix their horrible online service it would fix 3rd party support and many PC gamers love Nintendo a lot so i expect nintendo would make lots of $$$. I would pay 60$ for so many games Nintendo made already for the PC its not even funny i would probably have 30% of my game inventory be nothing but Nintendo at 1080P 60FPS at ultra settings.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/08/outspoken-indie-game-chief-leaves-nintendo/

Nintendo execs are stuck in the dark ages. Wouldn't be shocked if one day, they all committed seppuku...

 

[jdwii]

I knew the xbox one wasn't going to sell anywhere near as good as the PS4 over its horrible hardware consoles fans are not as dumb as people think they are. I even knew Windows 8 was going to be a horrible ride as well for Microsoft as well as Windows server 2012(which we are not getting at my place). Hope next Windows Server and Windows 9 turns things around at Microsoft. The thing that really concerns me is Nintendo i'm hoping they can turn things around at this point i think they should team up with Steam that would solve all of Nintendo's problems it would fix their horrible online service it would fix 3rd party support and many PC gamers love Nintendo a lot so i expect nintendo would make lots of $$$. I would pay 60$ for so many games Nintendo made already for the PC its not even funny i would probably have 30% of my game inventory be nothing but Nintendo at 1080P 60FPS at ultra settings.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/08/outspoken-indie-game-chief-leaves-nintendo/

Nintendo execs are stuck in the dark ages. Wouldn't be shocked if one day, they all committed seppuku...

Yeah i was reading that makes me kinda sad but hey its their own fault. Nintendo needs to move with the times

 

[gamerk316]

I knew the xbox one wasn't going to sell anywhere near as good as the PS4 over its horrible hardware consoles fans are not as dumb as people think they are. I even knew Windows 8 was going to be a horrible ride as well for Microsoft as well as Windows server 2012(which we are not getting at my place). Hope next Windows Server and Windows 9 turns things around at Microsoft. The thing that really concerns me is Nintendo i'm hoping they can turn things around at this point i think they should team up with Steam that would solve all of Nintendo's problems it would fix their horrible online service it would fix 3rd party support and many PC gamers love Nintendo a lot so i expect nintendo would make lots of $$$. I would pay 60$ for so many games Nintendo made already for the PC its not even funny i would probably have 30% of my game inventory be nothing but Nintendo at 1080P 60FPS at ultra settings.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/08/outspoken-indie-game-chief-leaves-nintendo/

Nintendo execs are stuck in the dark ages. Wouldn't be shocked if one day, they all committed seppuku...

Yeah i was reading that makes me kinda sad but hey its their own fault. Nintendo needs to move with the times

But they never have. Every Nintendo console aside from the Wii has sold half as many as the one before it. The WiiU is just continuing the trend that already existed. Nintendo has been dying for years.

 

[8350rocks]

Yes, they are the most stubborn, "We are Nintendo, we do not need you" bunch you will ever meet...seriously...were it not for fan favorites keeping the ship barely afloat they would not even be relevant now. They should do like Sega did and just become a publisher and lease their IP to companies to develop it for other platforms...would probably be far more profitable for them.

 

[de5_Roy]

nintendo should team up with valve or release their own central o.s. for pcs and tablets and let pcs (and powerful tablets/laptops) turn into consoles running nintendo games. they'll make more money that way instead of selling console-locked games now. imo their approach was the best among the consoles - two tablets as game controllers. but they chose far too weak hardware for that.. and may be the o.s. was bad too, i dunno...

 

[8350rocks]

nintendo should team up with valve or release their own central o.s. for pcs and tablets and let pcs (and powerful tablets/laptops) turn into consoles running nintendo games. they'll make more money that way instead of selling console-locked games now. imo their approach was the best among the consoles - two tablets as game controllers. but they chose far too weak hardware for that.. and may be the o.s. was bad too, i dunno...

Honestly, I never owned a Nintendo product...had friends that did, but I was always a Sega/playstation guy. Never got that big into mario.

 

[-Fran-]

Well, my last Nintendo console was the N64 and I had a blast with the games I played... Now I've played with the Wii and Wii U a friend has. I have to say it's been refreshing. Specially Mario Kart 8 (still not as good as the MK 64 or the original SMK). I don't have close experience with the XB1 nor PS4 first hand, so I can't say if they're good or not. In any case, in the console world, Nintendo is top notch. Their controllers are great and even though MS and Sony have done interesting things (specially the XB360 controller), Nintendo still makes top notch hardware around its consoles. Take a look at the BT controller (classic pad that looks like the XB360 one) for the Wii U and read the specs. It's one amazing piece of equipment.

Anyway, consoles are a different beast from PCs. They're heavily dependent on marketing and games library, not hardware. So, comparing a PC to a Console, you need to compare games to usage/user experience. So, what I'm trying to say is we can't say the PS4 or XB1 are failures from the HW component alone. I do agree "gamers" are not dumb (even though I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, haha) and know what lies underneath each console, but at the end of the day, they care about games and how to play them more than 4K and 144Hz or Intel, AMD or IBM inside.

Cheers!

 

[de5_Roy]

Processor delays hurt ARM server adoption, Dell exec says
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2461180/processor-delays-hurt-arm-server-adoption-dell-exec-says.html
nvidia and samsung are out (for now, presumably), calxeda is gone, qualcomm says random stuff randomly. for now, only x-gene and amd are gonna sell 64bit arm server cpus afaik. this will help amd in the short term. until amd et al have built a solid base for others like nvidia and samsung to step on and compete with the incumbents. i don't think "first mover advantage" means anything in the arm ecosystem. the partners are bound by arm and foundries.
this is ofc based on what little i know about servers.

 

[gamerk316]

ARM in server is going to fail due to not being "big" enough to compete, never mind the lack of software. And with phone/tablet adoption flat-lining due to market saturation, ARM is not going to see the same growth we're used to. That ship has sailed. ARM is a bubble, and I'm afraid AMD is jumping on right before it bursts.

 

[de5_Roy]

ARM in server is going to fail due to not being "big" enough to compete, never mind the lack of software. And with phone/tablet adoption flat-lining due to market saturation, ARM is not going to see the same growth we're used to. That ship has sailed. ARM is a bubble, and I'm afraid AMD is jumping on right before it bursts.

i dunno... aren't arm chips supposed to be customizable and significantly cheaper than x86(intel) chips(cpus/socs)? for example, big corporations like google and facebook can license and build their own cpus based on arm v8. they could even source from amd's semicustom cpus. i thought that's where amd was aiming. imo, small number of vendors like x-gene and amd could hinder the adoption temporarily.
i think there will be a gap between arm's consumer market uh... "deflation"(using the bubble analogy) and arm's server market expansion. if arm's original plan worked, there would be no gap i.e. arm would enter server arena riding on the peak of consumer "big wave". that time was supposed to be at 14-16nm process and complete server cpus ready for volume production (after testing, validation etc). now the gap is slowly getting longer and intel is finishing figuring out their 14nm woes. there's still room though. arm's slogan has been of cheaper, new uarch usurping something something. as long as arm undercuts intel and amd et al deliver the cpus i don't think many people will mind.
i don't know about software though. i see plenty of linux distros sporting arm support. that's as far as my knowledge goes. i worry about the time to develop and debug arm v8 compatible softwares, training the i.t. personnel and after sales service though.
amd's biggest advantage is their expertise and the x86 license. this is why project skybridge seems to interesting to me. if done right, it'll be win-win for amd.

 

[gamerk316]

If by "support", you mean boot with a reduced number of features and a less updated kernel, then yeah, Linux "Supports" ARM. But even then, where's the software compiled for it?

At the end of the day, you could have a CPU architecture that runs 10x X86, but without any software that runs on it, you have no product you can sell.

 

[colinp]

In any case, I can basically guarantee Mantel is almost never going to get used.

 

[gamerk316]

In any case, I can basically guarantee Mantel is almost never going to get used.

At the time, I thought DX12 was going to be a bit closer then a Winter 2015 release. In any case, once DX12 approaches, Mantel dies.

Also note the logical fallacy of "He was wrong once, so he must be wrong again", which applies to about 99% of the forum before the BD launch. Note, I was in the 1% that correctly predicted BD's performance (though even I overestimated it somewhat).

 

[colinp]

When you make absolutist comments like that or:

ARM in server is going to fail

you're just setting yourself up for a fall.

Much brighter people than any of us here (including you - I know, I can hardly believe it either) are working very hard to make ARM servers genuine contenders. It's too early yet to say that they'll fail.

 

[blackkstar]

Every Nintendo thread consists of people talking about how Nintendo has all these great games they want to play but they won't buy a console. I don't get it at all. If they have games, you buy the console. You can get a refurb for $200 that comes with Nintendoland. I did and it's awesome. And I know fully well the graphics aren't that great, but the games are fun. I put 50 hours into Mario Kart 8 already and I've had it for like 2 months. It's a really nice break from sitting in front of the computer all the time.

It is just baffling to me. It's like saying "this store sure has a ton of very nice things that I would like to buy and use in it. I hope it goes out of business so I can buy them at the store I normally shop at."

I don't get it at all. If it has things you like just buy it. You can also watch video and play games just on the game pad and it has decent range. I feel this whole attitude of "I just buy one gaming device and get every single game" has a lot to do with multiplatform games. I remember growing up you'd have a SNES + Genesis if you had the money, because both systems had games you wanted to play. It seems like people are entitled and they feel that they should just have one console and it should play everything.

There's not enough diversity between xbone + PC + ps4 to justify owning more than one, unless you can easily afford it and the few exclusives seem good enough. But Nintendo still has a very diverse set of games and it's worth getting. And yes, I know everyone loves to come in and go "NINTENDO REHASH" but Nintendo is on the 8th version of Mario Kart this year and it started in 1992. Forza is going to be out on its 7th version this fall and the first one came out in 2005. PS4's big fall release is a remaster of a game that came out not very long ago. Xbone's big release are literal remakes of Halo. So you have two companies depending on literal remakes while the other one gets branded rehash central because they use the same characters in diverse games. It has a lot to do with the fact that Nintendo won't pay off game review tabloid sites while Sony, MS, and all these AAA publishers drop money off at review tabloid doorsteps and go "this is a 9/10, got it?" and leave with their 9/10 score.

Speaking of Nintendo, I've heard some rumblings that the next Nintendo handheld will be powered by custom AMD parts. A custom ARM + GCN APU would be pretty sweet in a hand held. If it does play out that way, it would more than likely be AMD's first really big semi-custom ARM design win. I love my 3DS XL but they really need to do something about the screen resolution, and GCN would help.

 

[gamerk316]

When you make absolutist comments like that or:

ARM in server is going to fail

you're just setting yourself up for a fall.

Much brighter people than any of us here (including you - I know, I can hardly believe it either) are working very hard to make ARM servers genuine contenders. It's too early yet to say that they'll fail.

I set myself up for eternal embarrassment when I predicted BD would be outright slower, both in IPC and absolute performance, then Phenom II, for no other reason then software limitations. And I'm still rubbing that predication in everyones faces.

Why do you think Qualcomm and Co want so desperately to get into servers? Because Mobile is saturated, and suddenly, sales are going to start going off a cliff. They need the revenue elsewhere to keep their stocks from imploding. And since X86 has a lock on Desktops, that means servers.

Problem is, between high end X86, SPARC, and even PPC, ARM is going to have a tough sell to get people to write software just for them. Nevermind the fact that ARM still hasn't caught up with even low end X86 chips yet, so the assumption that they can go from loosing against the Atom to competing with high end Xeon chips is a poor one, at best.

 

[de5_Roy]

i can't read italian but these guys seem to be claiming kaveri refresh in 2015, dt carrizo in 2016 on socket fm3+, completely neglecting socket fm3
http://www.bitsandchips.it/hardware/9-hardware/4663-amd-come-intel-kaveri-refresh-in-arrivo-nel-2015
if we assume kaveri refresh will bring in socket fm3... that doesn't make much sense. or may be wccan'ttranslatefromitaliantoenglishrumorsoftech.com added that bit with their xtwerp analysis.

 

[8350rocks]

That sounds partly right, but also partly wrong...lol. I know that sounds horrid, but I really cannot say more...

 

[bmacsys]

"There’s a reason why AMD desperately needs all the help they can get. Despite their graphics superiority and even with Steamroller’s notable IPC improvements over Piledriver and Bulldozer, Kaveri’s general processing performance in everyday applications is still in a decrepit state. If we rolled back the clock to 2011 and told you then that AMD’s 2014 lineup would barely outperform a three year old X4 980 in games and many productivity-based benchmarks, pitchfork-wielding mobs would have turned up at our doors. However, that’s exactly what is happening. "
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review-17.html

Decrepit??? I have a8 5600 and played alot of arma on it amongst other games at 720 just fine on the igp, it boots win7 and works so fast the tablet and netbook are now redundant even for surfing whilst I'm in the house and not in bed. Paired with a dgpu I've clocked up serious hours in bf4 with no problem mostly above 60fps and never really any lower than 40 that I have noticed. Any modern cpu can game and just generally work fine.
I'd love someone to do a mass 'blind test' doing everyday stuff and games on a range of hw just to see if benchmarks mean anything outside of reviews, obviously time means money to business so just everyday useage.

I have to agree with you. You aren't paying $234.99 USA dollars for an 8320 or a 7850K. So logically it isn't going to take on a i5 4690K. You are paying $80 less.

 

[bmacsys]

its really damn slow at stock clocks....it needs oced waaay up there....

Have you ever even used a system with a 4300? I doubt it.......

 

[bmacsys]

ARM in server is going to fail due to not being "big" enough to compete, never mind the lack of software. And with phone/tablet adoption flat-lining due to market saturation, ARM is not going to see the same growth we're used to. That ship has sailed. ARM is a bubble, and I'm afraid AMD is jumping on right before it bursts.

You don't have a clue. ARM is in the ascension. ARM is winning right now. Apple already is building a desktop class 64 bit chip. ARM is scaling up very fast.The ship has sailed. It is Intel who missed it. They could have owned mobile.

 

[bmacsys]

The only tablet I would like to see is the discovery project tablet AMD made. I told them if they ever "lost" one I would be much appreciative...LOL!

Yeah that did look nice. I think AMD Mullins looks about the best fit for tablets right now. Sadly it looks destined to be bunged into bargain basement, under specified net books, rather than in a nice sleek tablet with a good quality screen *and* a decent battery.

This is the problem, many of the AMD A8 / A10 APU's would have been superb basis for decent laptops with a nice combination of gfx and cpu power (when you consider most laptops now are using the dual core ULV Intel parts), however all the offerings available are stuck with 768p screens, mechanical hard drives, single channel memory and pathetic speakers. It doesn't help that the kind of people working in computer shops in the UK don't know what they're talking about, and will blindly recommend inferior Intel products over AMD because 'its a better brand'... Ok AMD kit isn't the fastest at the top end, but if you have two £400 15" laptops, one has been built around an Atom (stupid but so many OEMs do this) and the other has an A8, and the guy recommends the Atom machine....

That does not just happen in the UK, it is here in the US as well...sadly...some people are just morons.

It happens everywhere. It is a race to the bottom for most pc manufacturers. Most people buy the cheapest crap they can get.

 

[jdwii]

its really damn slow at stock clocks....it needs oced waaay up there....

Have you ever even used a system with a 4300? I doubt it.......

Well i have and he is right