AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

[gamerk316]

amd a10 7800 review
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8291/amd-a10-7800-review-65w-kaveri
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8288/amd-launches-65w-45w-kaveri-apus-a10-7800-a8-7600-a6-7400k
i knew that teaser the other day was about a10 7800! another prediction confirmed! even if i didn't predict anything!

Shame the i5 2500k wasn't on there for comparisons sake.

 

[8350rocks]

@juanrga:

John the Ripper is a notoriously good benchmark for AMD. The fact that you present it as being significant proof that an APU would beat an i5 is questionable.

John the Ripper is extremely well threaded. So much so to the point that the FX8350 would handily beat the 3770k in that benchmark routinely without compiling favorably. If you compiled with flags to optimize for AMD hardware, it was a joke, even doing the same for intel hardware.

While I concede it does show what the integer processing capability is of the AMD hardware, and how it can be advantageous when you optimize for it. The point is, most software is not indicative of the level of threading John the Ripper is capable of using.

 

[con635]

^^^^fx 8370, higher clocks and lower tdp, still piledriver, I wonder is this 'richland' now?
edit 95w 8310 and 125w 8370

 

[gamerk316]

@juanrga:

John the Ripper is a notoriously good benchmark for AMD. The fact that you present it as being significant proof that an APU would beat an i5 is questionable.

John the Ripper is extremely well threaded. So much so to the point that the FX8350 would handily beat the 3770k in that benchmark routinely without compiling favorably. If you compiled with flags to optimize for AMD hardware, it was a joke, even doing the same for intel hardware.

While I concede it does show what the integer processing capability is of the AMD hardware, and how it can be advantageous when you optimize for it. The point is, most software is not indicative of the level of threading John the Ripper is capable of using.

Now re-write that same benchmark to use OpenCL, run it on the GPU, and watch every dGPU crush the APUs. Its the prototypical example of software the does scale to massively multicore levels, and thus is a primary candidate to be moved off the CPU in the first place.

 

[de5_Roy]

@8350rocks: i was under the impression that jtr benchmarks (newer versions) used the igpu already.

^^^^fx 8370, higher clocks and lower tdp, still piledriver, I wonder is this 'richland' now?
edit 95w 8310 and 125w 8370

fx 8310 (probable clockrate may be 3.4 GHz base) is like older 95w fx8100, fx8300 cpus. fx8370 has the same tdp as the fx8350, so it might get a clockrate bump.

 

[blackkstar]

My predictions about the A10 7850k were verified up to the single digit percent. And my predictions about future APUs will be verified as well.

Lol do you work at Amd for marketing just wondering ha ha

@juanrga:

John the Ripper is a notoriously good benchmark for AMD. The fact that you present it as being significant proof that an APU would beat an i5 is questionable.

John the Ripper is extremely well threaded. So much so to the point that the FX8350 would handily beat the 3770k in that benchmark routinely without compiling favorably. If you compiled with flags to optimize for AMD hardware, it was a joke, even doing the same for intel hardware.

While I concede it does show what the integer processing capability is of the AMD hardware, and how it can be advantageous when you optimize for it. The point is, most software is not indicative of the level of threading John the Ripper is capable of using.

Now re-write that same benchmark to use OpenCL, run it on the GPU, and watch every dGPU crush the APUs. Its the prototypical example of software the does scale to massively multicore levels, and thus is a primary candidate to be moved off the CPU in the first place.

Johntheripper actually does have OpenCL support.

http://openwall.info/wiki/john/GPU

7970 scores 92,000 c/s. Juan's benchmark for Kaveri doesn't even explain what hashing algorithm was used. But if Juan used MSCash2, it's a complete domination for dGPU.

Like I said earlier, all Juan did was cherry pick benchmarks to prove his numbers correct. No one in their right mind would run JTR on CPU if they have a GPU available.

 

[griptwister]

What the actual hell? I hate apple as a company. I also heard someone say a while back that Vendors aren't going to do 20nm this year due to apple. Something about getting sued? xD

And Piledriver... wth! What's the point of that CPU unless if they're bringing in a new socket with DDR4 and PCIe 3.0? What ever... I guess GPUs should be exciting!

 

[colinp]

Wccftech - isn't that the website that takes some unsubstantiated rumour from some random Chinese website, puts it through Google translate and then misinterprets whatever gobbledygook it has into an unquestioning news article?

 

[gamerk316]

Wccftech - isn't that the website that takes some unsubstantiated rumour from some random Chinese website, puts it through Google translate and then misinterprets whatever gobbledygook it has into an unquestioning news article?

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[8350rocks]

Wccftech - isn't that the website that takes some unsubstantiated rumour from some random Chinese website, puts it through Google translate and then misinterprets whatever gobbledygook it has into an unquestioning news article?

I thought that was juan?

 

[esrever]

Wccftech - isn't that the website that takes some unsubstantiated rumour from some random Chinese website, puts it through Google translate and then misinterprets whatever gobbledygook it has into an unquestioning news article?

I thought that was juan?

Juan doesn't need any sources.

 

[blackkstar]

Wccftech - isn't that the website that takes some unsubstantiated rumour from some random Chinese website, puts it through Google translate and then misinterprets whatever gobbledygook it has into an unquestioning news article?

Don't forget how he does things like pay for articles behind pay walls and then writes articles about how his "sources" (which only consist of the article he paid for) confirm something is coming.

More like Woeful Content Copying Fraud Tech.

It's not as bad as Guru3D stealing an image from a thread on OCN where the thread states they're photoshopping something, and then stealing a user's post verbatim that he made as a joke, and posting it as real news.

 

[jdwii]

Guys this review has a 2400 I5 and a A10 7850K even clocked at 4.4 Ghz it loses comes even in Handbrake though obviously it wins in GPU accelerated tasks.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/07/31/amd-a-10-7800-review/1

 

[de5_Roy]

moar a10 7800k and 7400k reviews:

AMD Launches the A10-7800 Desktop APU
http://semiaccurate.com/2014/07/31/amd-launches-a10-7800-desktop-apu/

AMD's A10-7800 processor reviewed
..and the A6-7400K, too
http://techreport.com/review/26845/amd-a10-7800-processor-reviewed

AMD Kaveri A8-7600 and A10-7800 APU Review
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-kaveri-a8-7600-a10-7800-apu-review_147879

AMD A10-7800 APU Review
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/2014/07/amd-a10-7800-apu-review/


AMD A10-7800 Kaveri APU Review
http://www.techspot.com/review/856-amd-a10-7800-kaveri/

and many moar!
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review,1.html
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/72709-amd-a10-7800-28nm-kaveri/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review.html
http://www.eteknix.com/amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review/ (no gold awards over core i7 4790k!)


AMD Officially Announces Steamroller Based Athlon X4 860K and Piledriver Based FX-8300 Processors At ChinaJoy 2014
http://wccftech.com/amd-officially-announces-steamroller-based-athlon-x4-860k-piledriver-based-fx8300-processors-chinajoy-2014/
the new athlons seem to be aimed at chinese markets. who knows when these'll show up in the u.s. last time, llano, trinity and richland athlons all came to the market near the end of cycle.

 

[jdwii]

moar a10 7800k and 7400k reviews:

AMD Launches the A10-7800 Desktop APU
http://semiaccurate.com/2014/07/31/amd-launches-a10-7800-desktop-apu/

AMD's A10-7800 processor reviewed
..and the A6-7400K, too
http://techreport.com/review/26845/amd-a10-7800-processor-reviewed

AMD Kaveri A8-7600 and A10-7800 APU Review
http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-kaveri-a8-7600-a10-7800-apu-review_147879

AMD A10-7800 APU Review
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/2014/07/amd-a10-7800-apu-review/


AMD A10-7800 Kaveri APU Review
http://www.techspot.com/review/856-amd-a10-7800-kaveri/

and many moar!
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review,1.html
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/72709-amd-a10-7800-28nm-kaveri/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review.html
http://www.eteknix.com/amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review/ (no gold awards over core i7 4790k!)


AMD Officially Announces Steamroller Based Athlon X4 860K and Piledriver Based FX-8300 Processors At ChinaJoy 2014
http://wccftech.com/amd-officially-announces-steamroller-based-athlon-x4-860k-piledriver-based-fx8300-processors-chinajoy-2014/
the new athlons seem to be aimed at chinese markets. who knows when these'll show up in the u.s. last time, llano, trinity and richland athlons all came to the market near the end of cycle.

Sorry those benchmarks make me sad that goes for all of the APU's i guess its nothing new but still. I'm happy to hear that they will be making a Steamroller 4 core without a dGPU(probably disabled) lets hope its priced well. I actually don't know how i feel about a 8370fx probably going to have a 4.2Ghz stock with maybe a turbo at 125watts is my guess. This will make it 5% faster lol.

 

[logainofhades]

CPU wise, AMD has been quite the letdown, and will probably continue to be until they release their new arch.

 

[jdwii]

"There’s a reason why AMD desperately needs all the help they can get. Despite their graphics superiority and even with Steamroller’s notable IPC improvements over Piledriver and Bulldozer, Kaveri’s general processing performance in everyday applications is still in a decrepit state. If we rolled back the clock to 2011 and told you then that AMD’s 2014 lineup would barely outperform a three year old X4 980 in games and many productivity-based benchmarks, pitchfork-wielding mobs would have turned up at our doors. However, that’s exactly what is happening. "
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review-17.html

 

[de5_Roy]

Sorry those benchmarks make me sad that goes for all of the APU's i guess its nothing new but still. I'm happy to hear that they will be making a Steamroller 4 core without a dGPU(probably disabled) lets hope its priced well. I actually don't know how i feel about a 8370fx probably going to have a 4.2Ghz stock with maybe a turbo at 125watts is my guess. This will make it 5% faster lol.

amd is positioning the unlocked and locked apus differently despite using same series number. previously they didn't publicize the lower tdp, locked apus much except overprice them. with kaveri, amd is putting the a10 7800 practically between the 7850k and 7700k. if you don't want unlocked, want configurable tdp at a cheaper price than 7850k but don't want to lose the shaders, then 7800. however, amd has priced these such a way that the newly price-reduced 7850k might cannibalize 7800. i still like the 7800 for it's saner launch price.
amd seems unfazed by potential price war among it's own chips. i don't understand what they're thinking.

 

[blackkstar]

Sorry those benchmarks make me sad that goes for all of the APU's i guess its nothing new but still. I'm happy to hear that they will be making a Steamroller 4 core without a dGPU(probably disabled) lets hope its priced well. I actually don't know how i feel about a 8370fx probably going to have a 4.2Ghz stock with maybe a turbo at 125watts is my guess. This will make it 5% faster lol.

amd is positioning the unlocked and locked apus differently despite using same series number. previously they didn't publicize the lower tdp, locked apus much except overprice them. with kaveri, amd is putting the a10 7800 practically between the 7850k and 7700k. if you don't want unlocked, want configurable tdp at a cheaper price than 7850k but don't want to lose the shaders, then 7800. however, amd has priced these such a way that the newly price-reduced 7850k might cannibalize 7800. i still like the 7800 for it's saner launch price.
amd seems unfazed by potential price war among it's own chips. i don't understand what they're thinking.

AMD is doing this solely for market share. They've done similar things in the past as well with GPUs (7790, 7870 XT, etc).

HSA needs capable systems for HSA software to exist. So they want HSA capable parts in as many systems as possible. It's better for them to undercut themselves and gain market share than it is to isolate potential customers. Their goal is not profits in the short term with this move, but long term profits by getting a foundation for an ecosystem established.

 

[con635]

"There’s a reason why AMD desperately needs all the help they can get. Despite their graphics superiority and even with Steamroller’s notable IPC improvements over Piledriver and Bulldozer, Kaveri’s general processing performance in everyday applications is still in a decrepit state. If we rolled back the clock to 2011 and told you then that AMD’s 2014 lineup would barely outperform a three year old X4 980 in games and many productivity-based benchmarks, pitchfork-wielding mobs would have turned up at our doors. However, that’s exactly what is happening. "
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review-17.html

Decrepit??? I have a8 5600 and played alot of arma on it amongst other games at 720 just fine on the igp, it boots win7 and works so fast the tablet and netbook are now redundant even for surfing whilst I'm in the house and not in bed. Paired with a dgpu I've clocked up serious hours in bf4 with no problem mostly above 60fps and never really any lower than 40 that I have noticed. Any modern cpu can game and just generally work fine.
I'd love someone to do a mass 'blind test' doing everyday stuff and games on a range of hw just to see if benchmarks mean anything outside of reviews, obviously time means money to business so just everyday useage.

 

[con635]

Sorry those benchmarks make me sad that goes for all of the APU's i guess its nothing new but still. I'm happy to hear that they will be making a Steamroller 4 core without a dGPU(probably disabled) lets hope its priced well. I actually don't know how i feel about a 8370fx probably going to have a 4.2Ghz stock with maybe a turbo at 125watts is my guess. This will make it 5% faster lol.

Still, would be nice to see a new review of the fx8***, using modern os and software and games, I think its aged so well a fair review could surprize many.

 

[esrever]

"There’s a reason why AMD desperately needs all the help they can get. Despite their graphics superiority and even with Steamroller’s notable IPC improvements over Piledriver and Bulldozer, Kaveri’s general processing performance in everyday applications is still in a decrepit state. If we rolled back the clock to 2011 and told you then that AMD’s 2014 lineup would barely outperform a three year old X4 980 in games and many productivity-based benchmarks, pitchfork-wielding mobs would have turned up at our doors. However, that’s exactly what is happening. "
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review-17.html

To be fair, intel's current 2014 lineup barely outperforms the i7-980x in games and many productivity-based benchmarks. Its like comparing apples to oranges. The phenom II were flagships, the kaveri apu is low end. And to be honest, my phenom II still plays games fine.

 

[jdwii]

"There’s a reason why AMD desperately needs all the help they can get. Despite their graphics superiority and even with Steamroller’s notable IPC improvements over Piledriver and Bulldozer, Kaveri’s general processing performance in everyday applications is still in a decrepit state. If we rolled back the clock to 2011 and told you then that AMD’s 2014 lineup would barely outperform a three year old X4 980 in games and many productivity-based benchmarks, pitchfork-wielding mobs would have turned up at our doors. However, that’s exactly what is happening. "
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review-17.html

Decrepit??? I have a8 5600 and played alot of arma on it amongst other games at 720 just fine on the igp, it boots win7 and works so fast the tablet and netbook are now redundant even for surfing whilst I'm in the house and not in bed. Paired with a dgpu I've clocked up serious hours in bf4 with no problem mostly above 60fps and never really any lower than 40 that I have noticed. Any modern cpu can game and just generally work fine.
I'd love someone to do a mass 'blind test' doing everyday stuff and games on a range of hw just to see if benchmarks mean anything outside of reviews, obviously time means money to business so just everyday useage.

Sorry but everything is not just games and when it is i can easily tell the difference under some games(don't even get me started on dolphin emulator) even more so the ones 2-3 years old and do you think its never going to get more intensive in gaming. You can play BF4 however have fun. A 4 core fx(4300) easily bottlenecks anything higher than a 7770ghz edition i noticed it at my brothers every single game we turned on was so much slower(compared to my old 1100T) i gave him my old 6950HD. Anything under a 6300 isn't worth it for any series gamer or a gamer who likes to play games at high-ultra without stuttering. Also i would love to take you on that blind test i have a suite of software(including games) i use all the time that i would easily tell doing little facebook crap is nothing a A4 can do that.
Edit plus this statement just proves what that review says to be more accurate anyways Amd keeps running away from their real problems in CPU architecture its been this way sense the Phenom II x6 add more cores and now include a iGPU which is all fine but in reality its not giving them more money in the CPU/APU division.

 

[jdwii]

Spoiler

"There’s a reason why AMD desperately needs all the help they can get. Despite their graphics superiority and even with Steamroller’s notable IPC improvements over Piledriver and Bulldozer, Kaveri’s general processing performance in everyday applications is still in a decrepit state. If we rolled back the clock to 2011 and told you then that AMD’s 2014 lineup would barely outperform a three year old X4 980 in games and many productivity-based benchmarks, pitchfork-wielding mobs would have turned up at our doors. However, that’s exactly what is happening. "
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67043-amd-a10-7800-kaveri-apu-review-17.html

To be fair, intel's current 2014 lineup barely outperforms the i7-980x in games and many productivity-based benchmarks. Its like comparing apples to oranges. The phenom II were flagships, the kaveri apu is low end. And to be honest, my phenom II still plays games fine.

I noticed on my Phenom II x6 some games did play 20-30% worse than a 8350fx 2 games i can name now are Far cry 3 at ultra the village area would dip with 35FPS with my 770gtx and now its around 48fps in that area. Also Simcity was horrible on my 1100T easily around 18FPS in big city's now its around 26-28FPS in huge city's.

 

[Cazalan]

The Athlon X4 860K was the most interesting of the bunch. Where are those benchmarks hiding.