AMD CPU speculation... and expert conjecture

Page 698 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

noob2222

Distinguished
Nov 19, 2007
2,722
0
20,860


benchmarks measure program specific performance not IPC. Why skip over what I said and address this as if its a statement in itself. Extremetech article never claimed they were showing IPC. Go to the article and search for "IPC" and tell me how many times it shows up.

Instructions Per Clock is primarily a meaningless term in today's computing world, IPC ≠ performance. you can't improve IPC by improving the performance of a program, your merely "improving the performance of said program", your not improving the performance of someone's product. you didn't go into the hardware itself and rearrange the transistors to make your program run faster, you didn't change the IPC. Instructions Per Clock are hard wired to a specific CPU. Instructions Per Clock isn't variable. How a software PROGRAM utilizes the IPC is variable.

90% of people when talking IPC are generalizing "performance" into IPC without knowing exactly what IPC is, however you went there and are convinced that IPC is what you are talking about.

As for your final argument ... lol, you completely missed the point all together. I could waste the time to try and explain it, but you wouldn't accept it even if it was shown with 1000% accuracy.
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790


IPC can be measured and is routinely measured.



Moot point. The article is about IPC, but they named it differently. They used the term "efficiency", which is odd because efficiency usually refers to performance per watt.



As explained before by myself and others

Performance = IPC * frequency

IPC gives a measure of the kind of architecture. Extremetech is using it to discuss why AMD would abandon big cores and focus on improving Jaguar. I agree with Joel.



As explained in the link that I gave before but you insist on ignoring:

The number of instructions executed per clock is not a constant for a given processor; it depends on how the particular software being run interacts with the processor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle

A compiler can increase the IPC not only by eliminating useless instructions but by adapting/rearranging the final code to the specific characteristics of a given processor architecture. This is why we have flags specifics for a given architecture (e.g., "Bdver3" for Steamroller). When the flag is selected the compiler generates a binary optimized for the Steamroller architecture and in general this binary will run faster than a binary is not optimized. For instance with the generic K8 flag C-Ray spends 87.90 seconds on Kaveri, when selecting the more specific Barcelona flag the execution time reduces to 53.33 seconds, and when selecting the Bdver3 flag specific to Steamroller it further reduces to 40.54 seconds.

Since the frequency of the processor was not changed the reason why the more optimized binaries runs faster is because the IPC has increased.

There and thereafter I will ignore your further posts about IPC.
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790
The next-generation OpenGL standard will be shown off next month at GDC 2015: glNext: The Future of High Performance Graphics

The presentation is from Valve with collaboration of developers from EA, Epic Games, Oxide Games, and Unity. The presentation will include demos of real-world applications running on glNext drivers and hardware.

I think we can guess that AMD will continue evaluating the feasibility of Mantle for linux forever.
 

8350rocks

Distinguished


Juan, your troll is a failure.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/Report-AMD-Godavari-CPU-Lineup-Leaked-New-APUs-and-Athlon-X4-Processors

The 8850K has a 100 MHz higher boost clock, and the GPU frequency is 856 MHz vs 720 MHz on Kaveri 7850K.

Try again with better doom and gloom and some actual facts.
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790


You are repeating what was already discussed.

The slide in the pcper article was posted in this thread before

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-354#15188890

And I already commented on the funny specs of the 8850K and other 'refresh' models

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/352312-28-steamroller-speculation-expert-conjecture/page-354#15189041
 

8350rocks

Distinguished


He used to do it to me all the time too...glad that crap finally stopped.
 

truegenius

Distinguished
BANNED


* Wrong
term efficiency is not only limited to performance per watt, we can even use efficiency for like efficiency of ram ( means theoretical vs real world bandwidth, which depends of controller and processor ) , efficiency of pcie 2 or pcie3 latter one use 128/130b encoding vs 8/10 means much efficient, here we are not measuring power consumption but still measuring and trying to increase efficiency
 

truegenius

Distinguished
BANNED


title looks misleading to me
it sounds like amd gpu demands is low "nobody wants amd, even partners are not interested in amd gpus"
it should be like this or should convey message like this "consumers are eagerly waiting for rx300 series saving for a rainy 380x/390x day"
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790


Note that I wrote "efficiency usually refers to performance per watt". I didn't wrote that efficiency is only limited to performance per watt.

"usually" != "only limited to"
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790


Partners are returning lots of unsold cards to AMD, because users prefer Nvidia last GPUs. Lisa Su gave details about this when discussed "market inventory adjustment" during the Q4 2014 results call. In short AMD produced more than could sell and lost money from the returns.
 

szatkus

Honorable
Jul 9, 2013
382
0
10,780


Hallock didn't meant only SFR. Split-frame rendering is one of few possibile ways to to use Mantle with multi-gpu.
 

truegenius

Distinguished
BANNED


so they were not measuring power efficiency, bandwidth efficiency and efficiency is not only limited to these things
so what efficiency they were measuring ? :?
if i can just find a clue somewhere



offtopic : using tomshardware forum in mobile is very painful ( even in mobile chrome ) due to this responsive design , missing those days when i used to browse toms on the go in my java based mobile in opera mini browser which does not support java script :'(
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790


The article simply emphasized that rendering the same frame by combining the horsepower of two GPUs is not anything invented by AMD. It existed with 3dFX, before AMD cards and before Mantle.
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790


That is answered in the inner quote above. Joel measured IPC, average IPC.

I have to add that I agree with lots of that Joel wrote in that article and in the comments. We agree on that AMD has to abandon the big cores and focus on a fast mini-core.

He has a concept about Zen very similar to the mine. Some obvious differences are that he estimated frequencies of 2.5--3.0GHz whereas I am more in the 3.0--3.5GHz range; also Joel envisions a future core with about 15% more IPC than Jaguar, whereas I expect ~40% more IPC than Jaguar.

He doesn't give more details, therefore the comparison with my beliefs stop here.
 

szatkus

Honorable
Jul 9, 2013
382
0
10,780


Mantle is the first graphics API to transcend this behaviour and allow that much-needed explicit control. For example, you could do split-frame rendering with each GPU and its respective framebuffer handling 1/2 the screen,

Just another incompetent journalist. Also nothing new.
 


If true, looks very nice. As usual:

industrial-road-salt.jpg


Cheers!
 

juanrga

Distinguished
BANNED
Mar 19, 2013
5,278
0
17,790


I guess is the top 390x with liquid cooling. Performance goes as

GTX980 < 390X < Titan II
 

jdwii

Splendid
mystery card is 35% faster while using 61% more power consumption compared to a 980. For some reason the equalized everything to a 970 not sure why they did that unless its going to be priced at that range.

Really wanting to see if they can make a 200 watt card to compete with a 980 in terms of performance if so i might make the switch.

We need Amd more then ever right now with Nvidia abusing the market just a bit with this 3.5GB card nonsense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.