AMD DIES, INTEL SURVIVES!!!

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This is addressed to DR tom.

Thankyou captain obvious, you have proven today beyond a shadow of a doubt that if you take off the heatsink of a running athlon it will fry. Tomorow will you please conduct the "which processor can survive a hammer impact" test, as I desperatly NEED that data before I purchase my next cpu. Hardware review is NOT about taking heatsinks off and taking video recordings of their death cries, hardware review is about giving the consumer data which will be RELEVANT to the purchase of a product. A heatsink falling off is EXTREMELY uncomon, raystonns point that uncommon x 10000= possible is true but moot. IT directors most likely do NOT read this site to decide what computers to purchase in quantitys, they usually already go for the intel systems anyway. I dont know what tom was trying to demonstrate with this article, but he deffinatly lost respect from me due to it. NOT because he attacked amd by specifically designing a test he KNEW would result in utter loss on amd's side.(if he claims he was surprised by the failures he is either a liar or a moron.) But because instead of giving us hard facts on performance,value, or some other RELEVANT feature of a product. He decided to give us videotape of a cpu frying under extremely rare circumstances. So please, dr tom, when will that hammer impace article be finished, I need to know how my next cpu will perform if attacked by hammer wielding intel trolls.

Other articles I look forward to from tom.

"water, which cpu can last the longest in the bathtub"
"gravity, which processor can perform faster in free fall, and which will survive impact"
"cheetos, the performance benifit of cheese in a memory sub system"


Bravo captain obvious!

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
 
Why don't you see if Dell will give you any stats on how many systems loose their heatsinks during shipping? And I beleive Tom when he says he thought the MP would shut down before it fried. I think he originally intended to show how the MP was BETTER in this respect when he set up this test, only to have the test show otherwise! Would it prevent me from using it in my own systems? NO! Would it proevent me from selling these systems by mail order? MAYBE!

Back to you Tom...
 
You know what Masitaro, I just think you are one broke ass mofo, who collects cans along side of the freeway in order to pay for half-ass computer parts.
 
<A HREF="http://www.linuxnetworx.com/products/evolocity_amdmp.html" target="_new">Linux NetworX</A> provides AMD-powered cluster boxen, including AthlonMP rackmounted clusters. They happen to very, very good at implementing cooling solutions in very tight spaces.

Kelledin

"/join #hackerz. See the Web. DoS interesting people."
 
Does this mean there is no AMD-based motherboard on the market that will save an Athlon CPU from disaster if the heatsink falls off?
 
I have 2 doubts:

1st => How is it possible to cool down the PIV 2GHz (dissipating +70w) several degrees ºC in less than a second by just landing the HSF on top of it?
Plus, there was no proper pressure and absolutly no thermal paste used to make the CPU|HSF contact, meaning it was a very poor cooling solution that probably couldn't handle a default CPU.
Being such a lousy cooling solution how could it cool down the PIV 2GHz in less than a second making it go from the throttled 1FPS to the normal ‘100000’ FPS??
It almost looks like Quake3Arena reacted to pressure on the core and not core temperature.

2nd => Is there a ‘cut’ in the film at 1:06? At that moment there is a bump in the image and sudently a column of smoke appears rising from the Athlon's core. Weird.



Ps: PLEASE! This I'm probably just being paranoic, I'm NOT doubting hardware guru Thomas Pabst, I'm just trying to clear out some doubts of my own. Thanks.
 
Does anyone know if the same thing happens to the AMD Morgan chips? They are newer; might be different.

Really want to know.

Thanks,

Louis
 
I'm going to say probably. I doubt that AMD has fixed it with the morgan. It was based off of the palamino chip. It might run cooler than most durons but I'm betting that it still won't run for more than two seconds without a heatsink.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
 
Man its getting hot in here! and its not the CPU's either. Please, everyone don't toast each other. The issues presented to us today in THG is a good thing. I'm sure nobody in their right mind is going to prove the theory by absent-mindedly pulling off there cooler. So, lets just wait and see what good will come out of this. But in the process of time lets all just chillout.

You all are great! So keep on debating, some of this is really amusing, but remember we are the consumer and in the end, WE ALL WIN!

JC-------<*){{{>{~~~~~
Fisher of men
 
"How is it possible to cool down the PIV 2GHz (dissipating +70w) several degrees ºC in less than a second by just landing the HSF on top of it?"

When the Pentium 4 throttled down, the temperature dropped to within the high end of reasonable limits. When the heatsink was placed back on the CPU, the temperature dropped drastically. Heatsinks are very effective at siphoning heat. When the CPU reached a very low temperature, it throttled the speed slowly back up to normal. Intel engineers have performed this very test in-house. The goal was to create a thermal solution that allowed a server to remain up with a broken cooling solution. For a Pentium 4, the cooling system is now hot-swappable. A side-effect of this is that it makes it rather easy and quick to test different heat-sink/fans against each other. It also ensures zero returns due to bad/mismounted/missing HSFs, due to user error, shipping problems, or jostling on the floor at the office. (Those janitors have been known to whack computers with vacuums when in a hurry.)

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 
No. Years ago I worked in IT. We consistently had at least 3 machines every week that would 'mysteriously' not work the next morning. Every single time it turned out to be the CPU had been jarred out of the socket. I was planning on setting up a video camera to watch the cleaning crew, but never got around to it before I left. I swear these guys must be throwing around their vacuum cleaners like there's no tomorrow. Needless to say, I always vacuumed my own office.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 
They probably knocked the pc around when searching through your desk, for credit card numbers and such. I swear cleaning crews are legalized theft almost.

Nice <b><font color=green>Lizards</b></font color=green> <b>crunch</b> Trolls cookies....... :smile: Yummy!! :smile:
 
10,896.5463278415 milliseconds:) Couldn;t the heatsink thing be at leat spartially resolved by placing your case sideways? Also, supercomputers tend to use liquid nitrogen in some cases, so HSFs in that case aren't a problem. I personally liek AMD, and unless a better processor comes out than AMD's, I'l stick w/ AMD. I don;t care about thermal issues much; if necessary I will get water cooling/peltiers/kryotech, I care about performance.

Your brain: PC
You brain on drugs: Mac
 
LoL, good one scary, I love how trolls love the personal insults. I must have collected alot of cans for my system then eh.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
 
Forget about the heat sink falling off. I have an 1.4ghz with OCZ Copper Gladiator and my fan failed, the AMD cpu was destroyed in less than 60 second.
 
60 SECONDS is enough time for the motherboards auto shutdown to take effect, and how do you know it was 60 seconds, did you sit around and watch it burn up, if i heard my fan die the power plug would be pulled immediatly! If you didnt hear the fan die, how again do you get the 60 second figure. Me thinks something smells fishy here.

~Matisaro~
"The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark"
~Tbird1.3@1.5~
 
Was the person taking off the heatsink in the video INSANE?
I mean, using bare hands to take parts off of incrediblely hot processor, isn't this dangerous.

Not to mention, electricity + the heat would burn that guy's hands.
 
Electricity does not pass through a heatsink normally. Additionally, heatsinks aren't usually all that hot. The heat spreads out through the whole unit and thus as a whole any particular part of it is generally about as hot as the processor is while it is attached. After it is removed, the CPU increases in temperature while the heatsink decreases. A pretty good measure of the heat of your system is that if you cannot touch your heatsink for about 30 seconds straight without getting burned, then your cooling system is not sufficient.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
 
wow
thanks for the info.

When I first saw the video, it shocked me to see no harm.
 
>When the Pentium 4 throttled down, the temperature dropped
>to within the high end of reasonable limits.

Hmm. is 29°C within the "high end of reasonable limits" ? Seems extremely low to me, or is Toms measuring method inacurate ? I dont see how the P4 without heatsink could possibly be cooler than with heatsink, since it doesnt "know" it doesnt have a heatsink on it until it reaches a high temperature treshold and starts throtteling to keep just below it.. I'd think..

Another thing i wonder.. how does a clockthrotteling P4 like this perform ? Would that be like 1,5,10% or 50% as fast as running full speed ? I mean, would it still be usable (for use in a noiseless fanless harddisk-less computer) ?

Either way, congrats to intel for a job well done. I hope it will serve as an example to AMD.

---- Owner of the only Dell computer with an AMD chip
 
Watch that movie clip again and see how close he holds the temperature sensor from the P4~50mm, P3~40mm!
The T'bird 1.4~ and Athlon MP, any closer he would have glued the thing to the core, could see he was strugling to just keep it from touching.
Would give a different reading totally at these varied distances, Just thought I would point that out since such a big deal was made of the temperatures.

Still doesn't change the fact that AMD needs a heat sink regardless and Intel has Idiot proofed their CPU.


<font color=purple>Three ways to do things, your way, my way and the right way!</font color=purple>
 
Raystonn,

>When the Pentium 4 throttled down, the temperature
>dropped to within the high end of reasonable limits.
Actually, for as long as the PIV remains throttled (the whole time wihtout the HSF) it means it is at a very high temperature. According to Intel specs, throttling is progressive going from in steps of 12.5% to 87.5% and then it kind of hibernates. This means that according to the video, the temperature goes from something like 70ºC (very high throttling.... Q3A <5FPS) to normal operating temperature 40ºC? 50ºC?

>When the heatsink was placed back on the CPU, the
>temperature dropped drastically
How can 20 or 30ºC disappear like that?! Even if you put a block of ice on top of the PIV it would take some seconds for the heatplate to cool off and the inner thermistor drop to normal values. Besides we are talking about a lousy cooling solution (no pressure, no thermal paste), not a block of ice.

>When the CPU reached a very low temperature, it throttled
>the speed slowly back up to normal
The problem is it didn't slowly returned to normal. It almost immediatly de-throttled.


Besides, as Bbaeyens points out, the temperature of the PIV without the HSF 'is' 29ºC. So, what about all those running-normally-with-HSF PIVs at +40ºC ? Are they all throttling?!
If the PIV was indeed at 29ºC it COULDN'T be throttling.



Crashman,
>Take a cold can of beer out of the fridge on a hot day.
>Put it on your hot forhead and tell me how many
>milliseconds it takes for your forhead to feel cold.
A cold beer on a hot day? And put it on my forhead?! No way, the beer would go down the hatch :))
No seriously :), you are talking about a temperature diference of 30ºC or so, at Tom's video we see a difference of 5 or 10ºC between the CPU and HSF (according to the reading and estimated room temperature).
 
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