News AMD Fires Back With 7 New Chips, Flagship $449 Ryzen 7 5800X3D Lands April 20

[Soaptrail]

its been during a chip shortage. Companies have investors to please. (again business 101)

it may be scummy, but if ppl want "low end" they have options in the prior generations that ae also discounted due to being last gen. (still really good cpu's)


MSRP of a 5800x was $449 and its entire life cycle its NEVER been above msrp. they were sub $400 over 250 days ago.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qt...e-processor-100-100000063wof?history_days=730

5600x? same thing. literally msrp or lower since day 1.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/g9...e-processor-100-100000065box?history_days=730

ALL AMD cpu lower in price over time. It had nothing to do with alder lake. price dropped before it was close to being out.


intel did that for a YEARS until Ryzen hit market. Ryzen is LITERALLY the only reason Intel actually lowered its cpu prices. Don't even try to claim Intel hasnt ever done this. If not for AMD pricing ryzen so cheap Intel wouldnt of ever made them as cheap as they are.

AMD even now is cheaper than performance per $ than intel was back when it was king..and intel NEVER gave the kind of support AM4 has had.


AMD isnt w/o issues but never try to claim intel is. as between the 2 intel has done far worse.

There is a difference between abusing your position at the top and surviving a pandemic with chip shortages so you continue to make higher end parts which you cannot keep up with. Does it suck for customers who want cheaper parts absolutely but I don't blame them in this circumstance. I am sure they intended to release these new CPU's earlier had there been no shortages.

 

[artk2219]

I should add I opted for Intel this go round specifically because AM4 is so long in the tooth. Tried and true vs cutting edge - both have their pros and cons.

Thats fair enough, I hope they finally support more than two generations on one socket, but we'll see how that goes. Intel hasnt done that since the days of 775, its a shame with socket 1151 as well, since theres no good reason why many of the better Z170 boards couldnt have run coffee lake, and no reason at all for why Z370 or Z390 couldnt have run skylake or kaby lake.

 

[rluker5]

It seems like asus is having a challenge with their pci5.0 slot implementation. I have the aorus master z690 and no problem on the pcie slot (also on a 3090) but ddr5 memory doesn't hit the rated speed and timings aren't as tight as what asus owners report. Its a whole lot of new tech in one platform- hybrid cpu, ddr5, pcie5. Not to be cynical, but expect early adopter teething issues. FWIW, intel dropped a new chipset driver ~2 weeks ago that fixed some weird cpu parking behavior that I was having. Otherwise the system is rock stable through long gaming sessions.

I think the pcie is an isolated issue for whatever reason. My Asus Prime Z690 P has no issues with pcie4 for my 3080. Don't know about pcie5 since I don't have anything that runs that. I do have 3 m.2 slots, 3 sata slots, a pcie 3x1 and pcie 3x4 running in addition to the gpu and everything runs at full speed. Almost. (testing 3 optane drives concurrently over the chipset bottlenecks the random read at about what 2.5 of them can do on their own. 2 are just leftover 16,32 memory cards, but I had the slots so why not?) I also didn't have any socket flex issues using either an 1150 cooler (Mugen B) or it's 1700 mounted NH-D15 upgrade.
I am overvolting my ram though so that is definitely helping the speeds and timings.

 

[saunupe1911]

It's the Gigablow Aorus Master that's the issue.

And why are you trying to OC 5xxx Ryzen??

1. The Aorus Master is a well reviewed and heavily adopted MB. Dark VII and VIII owners are reporting recent issues as well. AGESA is the culprit...not a individual MB manufacturer or model.

2. I honestly think that's a silly question but recent BIOS updates have even muted basic PBO performance

 

[saunupe1911]

Why are people on Win11 with AMD hardware, that is crazy at least until Win11 is no longer a real world beta.

I asked the same question Gigabytes forum. Quite few people are fans of Windows 11 HDR implementation. That say it's much better with proper SDR and HDR tones.

 

[King_V]

Thats fair enough, I hope they finally support more than two generations on one socket, but we'll see how that goes. Intel hasnt done that since the days of 775, its a shame with socket 1151 as well, since theres no good reason why many of the better Z170 boards couldnt have run coffee lake, and no reason at all for why Z370 or Z390 couldnt have run skylake or kaby lake.

I would say it's not, in fact, fair enough, because Intel hasn't ever supported more than 2 generations, assuming you could count the "tock" portion as really a new generation.

I don't see any indication that they're going to change that. So, 13th generation would be end of the line for current motherboards.

So, "oh, well, the motherboard will last for ONE MORE generation" is a really weak argument.

 

[Makaveli]

AMD is so trash, the only reason we got these refresh cpus + 300series support & price drops is 100% thanks to Intel 12th gen.

Instead of having CPU refreshes every 6moths, lowering prices, add more SKUs + providing support for their platform they did nothing for years.

the best of this announcement is Zen2 cpus in 2022

This is how competition works. is Intel trash for keeping the market stuck with Quad core skylakes cpu's for years until Ryzen came out and then they increased core count?

I don't see a difference.

 

[Alvar "Miles" Udell]

I'll pass and wait for the 5950X to hit $500 or less, because I have no intention of upgrading my system for several years to come, not until PCIe 4 becomes a limitation, which is several years away at least.

Personally, I don't think the 5800X3D will pan out across a cross section of games to be notably faster then the 5800X, especially not enough to justify a $100 price premium, especially in the more GPU limited resolutions of QHD and UHD, and even in FHD I can't see the extra cache enabling the next tier of performance (120, 144, 240fps) compared to the 5800X. In any other...decade it'd have been "Use the $100 and get the next model GPU up from what you were getting for much more performance", hopefully those days will return sooner rather than later.

As for the lower end chips...Zen 2 was a bad move. I know they did it for cost and to get some use out of the duff APUs, but with a 19% IPC handicap vs Zen 3, even $99 seems like a lot to ask since it's not really an upgrade from any Zen or Zen+ model, and there are certain drawbacks about buying into an ecosystem which is at the end of its life, and there is quite likely a much better bang for your buck in the used market.

 

[hotaru.hino]

The AGESA updates will just break PBO at some point just like it has with the rest of Zen3. Choose your motherboard wisely.

I definitely would wait on reviews and also pay attention to the forums to get real world feedback. I bought into the AMD hype after upgrading from my 6700K (still going strong as my PLEX server).

It was great until BIOSs started getting quirky to compensate for Windows 11+AMD compatibility bugs.
And yeah definitely pay attention to see how well it performs on Windows 11 since the rest of Zen3 takes a performance hit

I don't see why people keep updating their motherboard firmware when there's nothing wrong with the system. If there's nothing wrong with the system, there's no reason to update it.

Why are people on Win11 with AMD hardware, that is crazy at least until Win11 is no longer a real world beta.

I'm on Windows 11 with AMD hardware. Why am I on it? I like being on the latest OS. Considering I've been on every major version of Windows within a month window of its launch for the past 15 years and encountered almost no issues, I must be doing something right.

 

[jacob249358]

its been during a chip shortage. Companies have investors to please. (again business 101)

it may be scummy, but if ppl want "low end" they have options in the prior generations that ae also discounted due to being last gen. (still really good cpu's)


MSRP of a 5800x was $449 and its entire life cycle its NEVER been above msrp. they were sub $400 over 250 days ago.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qt...e-processor-100-100000063wof?history_days=730

5600x? same thing. literally msrp or lower since day 1.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/g9...e-processor-100-100000065box?history_days=730

ALL AMD cpu lower in price over time. It had nothing to do with alder lake. price dropped before it was close to being out.


intel did that for a YEARS until Ryzen hit market. Ryzen is LITERALLY the only reason Intel actually lowered its cpu prices. Don't even try to claim Intel hasnt ever done this. If not for AMD pricing ryzen so cheap Intel wouldnt of ever made them as cheap as they are.

AMD even now is cheaper than performance per $ than intel was back when it was king..and intel NEVER gave the kind of support AM4 has had.


AMD isnt w/o issues but never try to claim intel is. as between the 2 intel has done far worse.

lower than MSRP is vague and could be misleading. The 5600x didnt go below $284 until January 25th, 2 weeks when the 12600k and friends dropped. Amd definitely jacked up prices. The 3600 MSRP was $199. Amd dominates intel with 3rd gen so they decide to jack up the price. $299 for the 5600x. I haven't been in the PC world very wrong but from what I have been looking at in the past intel didn't jack up prices. Im sure they did other bad things like any big company. Dont mistake me for the removed intel fanboys tho.

 

[ConfusedCounsel]

More cores eventually reach their limit, unless we are talking Cinebench.

I am curious how the larger L3 improves performance. I think it could, as overclocking infinity fabric is a benefit. I look at it this, in 2000 my grad work was AI analysis of video clips. System had 1 GB of RAM, so all matrixes and images had to be read to and from hard drive, which made the system slow. Today, it would all go into RAM. The same is true for cache. The less calls I have to make to ram the fast of the system's going to run.

 

[ConfusedCounsel]

As for complaints about pricing and timing: Let's look at the last two years: pandemic, supply chain issues, quarantine, followed by 7% inflation, WAR, $130 barrel oil (back to less than $100 a barrel today), nickel volatility closing London Mineral Exchange, stop of Neon shipments.... And there is tomorrow. It is amazing Intel and AMD got anything out the door

 

[jp7189]

I would say it's not, in fact, fair enough, because Intel hasn't ever supported more than 2 generations, assuming you could count the "tock" portion as really a new generation.

I don't see any indication that they're going to change that. So, 13th generation would be end of the line for current motherboards.

So, "oh, well, the motherboard will last for ONE MORE generation" is a really weak argument.

Platform longevity means a lot to some people, but I'm not one of them. I can't remember the last time I felt the need for a CPU upgrade without wanting a better motherboard too. For me the platform enhancements are more exciting.

 

[King_V]

Platform longevity means a lot to some people, but I'm not one of them. I can't remember the last time I felt the need for a CPU upgrade without wanting a better motherboard too. For me the platform enhancements are more exciting.

Maybe. Well, actually, part of me suspects you're right. But, we computer enthusiasts who build their own are a subset of computer buyers. What subset of us has, as a hard requirement, a need to upgrade every CPU generation?

Therefore, the other part of me kind of suspects that those making the argument that Intel's 12th gen platform will allow them to upgrade when 13th gen comes out weren't interested in Ryzen platforms when the Ryzen 1000 series CPUs were first released in 2017, and AMD promised that AM4 would be supported for four more years.

 

[hotaru251]

The 3600 MSRP was $199. Amd dominates intel with 3rd gen so they decide to jack up the price. $299 for the 5600x. I haven't been in the PC world very wrong but from what I have been looking at in the past intel didn't jack up prices.

reason early ryzen was so cheap is amd aggressively priced them to get back market share.
they (during zen 2) finally caught up to intel.
so when Zen3 was out they werent "catching up" they beat intel. so they added $50.

and to those who wanted it? $50 isnt much given the improvements. if you didnt wanna pay $50? i mean...3600 was there as option. (heck iirc 3700x was down to liek 3600 price at that time)

and Intel HAS done that prior as here are some MSRP:
7700k was 339, 8700k was 359, 9700k 385, 10700k was 374, 11700k was 399 (fun fact...11th gen was WORSE than 10th gen but cost more), 12700k is 409.



so please..tell me again how intel hasnt raised prices?

AMD's Ryzen's success during Zen2 forced Intel to lower prices as they couldnt justify cost when performance was rivaled (or beaten in multicore as intel was crushed in multicore workloads). (heres a fun fact....Intel's CPU's are similar to Apple products in they use to hold value and never get price reductions even when new generation is out)

Zen 3's release took the last crown intel had at the time. They had no real advantage (outside of typical nich/specific applications but those always exist for both sides)

12th gen was a good thing from intel. Good chips across board and on low side beat any AMD choice. (thoguh the upcoming low end amd "might" change that need wait for benchmarks though)

Zen4 could change that again, but thats how competition works. Prices lower with competition and inflate when you lack competition. This is why everyone always says they WANT both sides to be good as it benefits us the consumers in end.

I am sure they intended to release these new CPU's earlier had there been no shortages.

for sure. I mean no company wants to lose profit.
Covid & the resulting resource shortages messed up tons of plans for businesses in nearly all fields.

 

[King_V]

Not to mention that, pre-Ryzen, when Intel had little competition to worry about, Intel was making only incremental improvements generation over generation.

So, even if they somehow chose not to increasedprices, wouldn't their profit margin have increased, given that they weren't making significant changes to their architecture? Topping out at 4c/8t where generation over generation there was not enough change to justify any upgrades even two, three, or four generations later.

 

[watzupken]

AMD is so trash, the only reason we got these refresh cpus + 300series support & price drops is 100% thanks to Intel 12th gen.

Instead of having CPU refreshes every 6moths, lowering prices, add more SKUs + providing support for their platform they did nothing for years.

the best of this announcement is Zen2 cpus in 2022

May I ask which CPU maker refreshes their product every 6 months?

I think you fail to remember that the only reason why we can find affordable Intel CPUs is because of AMD Ryzen. I don’t believe in taking sides, trying to defend for this or that company. These are all for profit companies that will always strive to please their investors, and not consumers. Without competition, consumers are always on the losing end. There are people that hope AMD will fail, but they will also go back to what Intel did when they dominated the space, that is stagnation and high prices.

 

[watzupken]

The AGESA updates will just break PBO at some point just like it has with the rest of Zen3. Choose your motherboard wisely.

I definitely would wait on reviews and also pay attention to the forums to get real world feedback. I bought into the AMD hype after upgrading from my 6700K (still going strong as my PLEX server).

It was great until BIOSs started getting quirky to compensate for Windows 11+AMD compatibility bugs.
And yeah definitely pay attention to see how well it performs on Windows 11 since the rest of Zen3 takes a performance hit

My biggest complaint about AMD has to be the BIOS updates, unending BIOS updates. While I generally don’t touch the BIOS, but there are times where there is no choice due to bugs. And while fixing bugs, they introduced more bugs. I do hope that AMD can deliver some solid BIOS at launch and stop these barrage of BIOS updates. Till then, I’ve switched back to Intel after sticking with them from my first 1600X to my last 5800X.

 

[artk2219]

I would say it's not, in fact, fair enough, because Intel hasn't ever supported more than 2 generations, assuming you could count the "tock" portion as really a new generation.

I don't see any indication that they're going to change that. So, 13th generation would be end of the line for current motherboards.

So, "oh, well, the motherboard will last for ONE MORE generation" is a really weak argument.

I think you and I are arguing different things here hah. I was agreeing that its fair enough that he didn't want to jump into AM4 right at the end of its life cycle, and I could understand the argument for not investing new money in an old platform which you know is EOL, atleast with LGA 1700 you would get DDR5 and PCIE 5 now, and the potential for one more upgrade in the future. I was not arguing that its fair that Intel only supports two generations per socket, which is some bulls**t, especially in the case of LGA 1151, it was literally the same socket. At the very least they could have allowed backwards compatibility with skylake and kaby lake on the 300 series chipsets.

 

[King_V]

Eep, yeah, I think I misinterpreted what you meant!

 

[spongiemaster]

reason early ryzen was so cheap is amd aggressively priced them to get back market share.
they (during zen 2) finally caught up to intel.
so when Zen3 was out they werent "catching up" they beat intel. so they added $50.

and to those who wanted it? $50 isnt much given the improvements. if you didnt wanna pay $50? i mean...3600 was there as option. (heck iirc 3700x was down to liek 3600 price at that time)

and Intel HAS done that prior as here are some MSRP:
7700k was 339, 8700k was 359, 9700k 385, 10700k was 374, 11700k was 399 (fun fact...11th gen was WORSE than 10th gen but cost more), 12700k is 409.

$199 to $299 is a $100 increase, not $50. Not only that, it's a 50% increase from the previous generation with no core count increase. When has Intel ever done that? You just listed six Intel generations, covering 5 years, going from 4c/8t to 8P+4E/20t that saw a total price increase of $70 or 20% and that, to you, is comparable to what AMD did? That's a pretty difficult position to defend by any objective person.

 

[spongiemaster]

I think you fail to remember that the only reason why we can find affordable Intel CPUs is because of AMD Ryzen. I don’t believe in taking sides, trying to defend for this or that company. These are all for profit companies that will always strive to please their investors, and not consumers. Without competition, consumers are always on the losing end. There are people that hope AMD will fail, but they will also go back to what Intel did when they dominated the space, that is stagnation and high prices.

Intel's prices were pretty much stagnant for years while AMD was busy stinking up the joint. Intel's prices have not dropped since Ryzen was released, they've actually rapidly increased. Granted, mostly because core counts have increased, but the fact is, the only reason people think Intel is affordable now is because AMD's price have skyrocketed more since Ryzen's launch than Intel's have. AMD went from bargain basement consolation pricing pre-Ryzen to absurdly expensive in a few years. An $800 MSRP mainstream CPU would have been unthinkable a few years ago and that's what AMD released with the 5000 series.

 

[-Fran-]

$199 to $299 is a $100 increase, not $50. Not only that, it's a 50% increase from the previous generation with no core count increase. When has Intel ever done that? You just listed six Intel generations, covering 5 years, going from 4c/8t to 8P+4E/20t that saw a total price increase of $70 or 20% and that, to you, is comparable to what AMD did? That's a pretty difficult position to defend by any objective person.

Don't forget the -E dies or X platform. If you wanted more than 4 cores, the jump was stupid. Intel did not care about this market until AMD came back to slap them on the face with both Ryzen and ThreadRipper. Granted, AMD is doing the exact same thing as Intel did, but with with ThreadRipper. And that is the whole damn argument: AMD doesn't care, well neither does Intel or nVidia. Remember when Intel "upsold" a regular i7 from the Z platform to the X platform?

As for "peak prices" of your next post. You easily forgot that both Intel and AMD have had outrageous prices before. AMD with the original FX line and Intel with the Pentium EE garbage.

Regards.

 

[KyaraM]

As the margins will be low, it will be a bragging rights chip with FEW produced. The rest of the "Stacked" chips will go into server lineups.

IF they really are faster in general, over a vast number of games. There were only 6 games shown in the presentation, Watch Dogs Legion, Far Cry 6, Gears 5, Final Fantasy 14, Shadow of the Tomb Raider and CS:GO to be more precise. That's not even close to a full picture and likely cherry-picked, too. Also, there is the 12900ks around the corner as well...

All that said, both companies are crap, as all companies are. The fanboyism always looked hilarious to me. Just get what you need, no matter who made it...

I would say it's not, in fact, fair enough, because Intel hasn't ever supported more than 2 generations, assuming you could count the "tock" portion as really a new generation.

I don't see any indication that they're going to change that. So, 13th generation would be end of the line for current motherboards.

So, "oh, well, the motherboard will last for ONE MORE generation" is a really weak argument.

And to me, that's a weak argument because the new boards also come with new, nice stuff, and I like new, nice stuff, as do most people. Plus, many 1st gen Ryzen boards don't even support newer chips anymore, so it's not a certainty that your new chip even works. I like to know where I'm at with my hardware, thank you very much. Also, I usually buy highend CPUs and then keep the system until it either breaks or gets too weak instead of buying a CPU every generation. My last chip was a 7th gen Intel. Similar Ryzen chips to my current i7 would cost more than CPU and MB did combined, with some room for good DDR4 RAM to boot. For the Ryzen CPU only. That's simply stupid.

 

[artk2219]

$199 to $299 is a $100 increase, not $50. Not only that, it's a 50% increase from the previous generation with no core count increase. When has Intel ever done that? You just listed six Intel generations, covering 5 years, going from 4c/8t to 8P+4E/20t that saw a total price increase of $70 or 20% and that, to you, is comparable to what AMD did? That's a pretty difficult position to defend by any objective person.

I'm not saying its right, but when you're on top with no competition you do have some room to swing your junk around. That being said, in regard to intel not increasing their prices, thats true, but I'll just paste a response from a few threads ago with you actually hah .

" "spongiemaster said:


No, they didn't.

Sandy Bridge i7-2700k - $332 (October 2011)
Ivy Bridge i7-3770k - $332
Haswell i7-4790k - $339
Broadwell - let's pretend these didn't exist, because they didn't
Skylake - i7-6700k - $339
Kaby Lake i7-7700k - $339 (January 2017)

Ryzen Zen 1 was released in March 2017.

Zero competition from AMD this entire stretch. Over five years, and 6 generations, the mainstream top end price increased $7 (2%)."

Fair enough but they didn't exactly do anything until Ryzen came about. Between 2011 and 2017 there was only a 25% bump in ipc while keeping the exact same 4 core and eight thread configuration, a configuration that had a die size of only 122mm sq by 2017 vs 214mm in 2011. Sure they weren't charging more, but it doesn't mean they weren't stagnant as hell and raking in the profits. It took until Ryzen and some actual competition from AMD for Intel to fire their philandering CEO and actually start putting out better products. Granted the move to a six core i7 had been planned on the standard desktop with coffee lake, but I guarantee you they wanted to raise prices as well. We would probably still be slow rolling on six cores had Ryzen not made eight cores and sixteen threads standard, and 16 cores and 32 threads a possibility on non workstations.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1404...core-i7-2600k-testing-sandy-bridge-in-2019/21"