AMD Mantle Not Meant for Xbox One and PlayStation 4

[oxiide]

I'm sad to see all this talk about the GCN architecture in regards to Mantle. Of course in AMD's marketing they're touting their own hardware.. but if AMD is developing Mantle to only be usable on AMD hardware, they're shooting this whole idea right in the head. This could be our chance to finally get away from Windows and DirectX, but only if its as universal as possible. If this is AMD-only, it will be a poorly-supported gimmick from birth to death.

It may even bleed over to consoles. If Microsoft wants to wall off their garden so much that they'll only use their own probably-inferior graphics API, that could/should come at a cost.

 

[antilycus]

OpenGL is the only real option. It's got a HUGE support base, it deals with legacy applications, it's CROSS PLATFORM ( you know there are other things besides microsoft stuff out there ) and OpenGL has a PROVEN way to do things... I think MANTLE is supposed to be the CG specific to AMD but developers and customers don't want it. I understand that AMD and NVDA put millions of dollars into writing specific OpenGL and D3D drivers, so this can't be a completely different option, it just isn't worth it as history has shown.

 

[hannibal]

Well, Xbone does not use Mantle, but Mantle can be used to make games to Xbone PS4 and AMD GCN based systems. So it makes it possible to make easier translate to one platform to another. It just not is official Xbone api...
The interesting thing is what MS will do if someone makes a game to Xbone using Mantle? Do they care or do they make it impossible to sell those games... *put popcorn to the nuke machine*

 

[somebodyspecial]

AMD Mantle, in theory, isn't designed to port old consoles games to the PC. It's designed to port new console games to the PC. This increases the consumer base instead of isolating them between those who have high-performing computer rigs, consoles, and low performing computer rigs. Remember, AMD won the Console Wars. So any Console game they place on the PS4, will more than likely be ported to the PC. This results in more revenue returns because more people can play the game without deciding to purchase a new PS4 or XBone. If demand goes up, the Game Developers will produce more copies to make more money, and invest in future games. Part of the reason why the Cellphone and Tablet market has become so significant is the fact that the Cellphone isn't just a cellphone. It's a cellphone, computer, web browser, GPS unit, camera, digital music player, etc... So it's basically combining the markets of other products into one. Ask yourself. Would you purchase a $1200 dollar SLR Camera with 28.8 mega pixels, or would you purchase a cellphone with a digital camera that has 24.0 mega pixels, same zoom as the SLR, including the cell phone, web browser, etc for only $599? Practical choice, you'd choose the cell phone because it does about the same as the SLR camera, and it has more features, for a little less than half the cost. Same ideology goes for AMD Mantle in one perspective. You can buy the same games for the PS4, and play them on the PC... You don't need to spend another $399.99 for the PS4 just to play them... Consumers don't need to spend $2000 for a top of the line Alienware Computer just to play awesome-sauce PC Games like BF4 when they can do it on the PS4...

I suspect that XBone will be better at streaming games through Cloud...

You have no proof AMD WON the console wars. NV says they gave it up do to bad numbers, which knowing single digit margins (guessing until 20nm shrink) I can see why NV went mobile/shield/steambox etc. If I can stream my PC's gpu to anything running android or SteamOS there is no point in consoles. G-Sync only adds more reason to go PC over consoles.

I don't see many games that will be made on consoles 1st now, and also I'm sure they'll not waste the money to port to a small % of a company who only owns 1/3 of the discrete gaming market. How many will have mantle capable cards next yet? Would you spend 8Mil to program for THOSE SPECIFIC cards? You won't get your money back. Mantle is dead except for a few games AMD will PAY to get converted. Nobody will waste money coding for what like 10% of the discrete market? Will even a 1/3 of AMD's 1/3 be mantle capable in the next year? Realize any coding for Mantle don't work on 65% of the gpu owners cards (NV owns them all). This pretty much means AMD pays or Mantle never gets used. Those devs will STILL have to make it openGL/Directx etc capable for the other 2/3's of the discrete market. You will NOT ignore that sized audience just to make AMD happy.

There's a reason why you only see ONE announcement game. Because it was 8mil PAID to dice to get it optimized. Even at 1/4 of that, it is very expensive. It would be different if you could sell a "mantle optimized" version of the game for $80 or something. But you can't. You charge the same, and won't get your money back for the extra coding cost. Porting is important yes. But you don't want to port for AMD and then the rest for PC. You just do it ONCE for OpenGL or DirectX and call it a day. THAT is what causes sales to go up, not coding for multiple apis for one platform, that just costs more for nothing returned.

Edit: One more note, most people will play BF4 at 1080p (less than 1.25% of us own above this) which can be done on far cheaper hardware than a $2000 PC. A lot of us already own fast enough PC's to play it TODAY. Check the recommendations from Dice/EA. A lot of us can already play it and as drivers are optimized from both sides for it, even more will with their current PC. You can build an SLI or CF machine for under 1K (we already own monitors and probably the OS, keyboard, mouse, drives etc). Don't forget that a lot of us, don't even intend to play BF4

Also, your example for mobile is exactly why I've been saying consoles are dead. Devs show they are running to Mobile in droves, while only a few plan anything in the future for next gen consoles. If AMD won consoles, they won a dying breed.

 

[TPatch]

I think if AMD is saying that that mantle is going to be as good as it is going to be this is a Win Win for the PS4. To have 40% boost over the xbox1 in BF4 would crush them. I think it would be dumb of them to just say we will pass. I cant wait to see how this works out for the PS4.