AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[saint19]

Hope see here more civilized posts.

 

[beenthere]

^^^^^ How are any of the above posts constructive expert conjecture or rumors?
Just sayin'...

AFAIK, the only thing we know from AMD slides is that AMD estimates Piledriver to be 10% better than BD based Zambezi/FX . FWIW, one test of Zambezi on Win 8 vs. Win 7 did show ~5% improvement for Zambezi/FX-8150. So it we see a 15+% improvement over the current FX CPU performance, it's a start.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2622

 

[fazers_on_stun]

AMD Is Already Testing the First Trinity APU Samples

A series of processors from AMD's upcoming Trinity APU series were just spotted online in a benchmark database suggesting that the Sunnyvale-based chip maker has already started testing these CPUs and may have even sent them to its partners.

Results of tests run using these processors were added to the OpenBenchmarking.org database and included not just the names and clock speeds of the APUs, but also information regarding their performance.

All these details however have been removed from the database by the Phoronix Test Suite author “to save these engineers on too much embarrassment or trouble.”

Despite this measure, Phoronix has however disclosed a few basic info about the chips. These are actually four in number and all are Engineering Sample processors.

The APUs include either two or four processing cores, have their clock speeds set between 2.5GHz and 3.3GHz, working integrated graphics and seem to function well under Linux with the proprietary AMD Catalyst driver.

AMD's next-generation Trinity APUs are based on the Piledriver core which is said to offer 10% better performance than Bulldozer and feature a VLIW4 GPU derived from the Cayman graphics used inside the Radeon HD 6900 series.

Much like the current Llano APUs, the chips will lack any sort of Level 3 cache memory as AMD wanted to increase the die area available to the on-board GPU.

According to AMD, Piledriver based APUs will be divided into three main versions for specific price-points and markets.

All the chips will be manufactured by Globalfoundries using the 32nm fabrication process and early estimates indicate that the quad-core version of the chip will feature more than 2 billion transistors.

The first Trinity APUs are expected to arrive at the end of Q1 2012 or in early Q2.

 

[gamerk316]

^^ Not shocked about the lack of L3. Will also cut down power somewhat, but that still has to be a MAJOR concern, given Trinitys primary market.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Globalfoundries Discloses Peculiarities of AMD's Trinity: Piledriver x86 Cores, Radeon HD 7000 Graphics. Globalfoundries Talks Next-Gen 32nm SOI AMD Fusion Chip

At its annual Global Technology Conference (GTC 2011), Globalfoundries officially disclosed peculiarities of AMD's next-generation Fusion A-series accelerated processing unit code-named Trinity. As expected, the chip will be based on enhanced Bulldozer/Piledriver x86 cores as well as AMD's next-gen Radeon HD 7000-series graphics technology.

As reported, Advanced Micro Devices' second-generation code-named Trinity APU for mainstream personal computers (Comal for notebooks and Virgo for desktops) will be made using 32nm SOI HKMG process technology at Globalfoundries. The APU will feature up to four x86 cores powered by enhanced Bulldozer/Piledriver architecture, AMD Radeon HD 7000-series "Southern Islands" graphics core with DirectX 11-class graphics support and other improvements.

AMD and Globalfoundries claim that Trinity will offer up to 50% improvement in GFLOPS performance with the same power consumption as currently available A-series "Llano" APUs or similar GFLOPS horsepower with 50% reduction of power consumption.

While basic specs and peculiarities are known, it is still unclear how much more powerful will the enhanced Bulldozer (Piledriver) x86 cores be compared to the first-generation Bulldozer offerings and what will be different between the two iterations of the micro-architecture. It also remains to be seen whether AMD Radeon HD 7000-series will rely on VLIW4 architecture (Cayman-like), will sport a new graphics/compute architecture or something hybrid. It will be interesting to find out whether AMD will implement unified address space for CPU and GPU cores and/or other enhancements for heterogeneous multi-core solutions into its second-generation Fusion or will be a little bit more conservative.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

^^ Not shocked about the lack of L3. Will also cut down power somewhat, but that still has to be a MAJOR concern, given Trinitys primary market.

True, but seeing as how the L3 (and L2 for that matter) don't help BD much, maybe it won't matter 😛.

 

[lilcinw]

So is AM3+ a dead socket with PD moving to FM2?

I still think the module concept can work well for AMD if they manage a better implementation this time around.

Things on my wish list for Piledriver (for all those at AMD who aren't listening):
-Improved branch prediction
-Reconfigured cache ratios
-Return to hand-design (if the speculation that what appears to be excess transistors (2 billion!) on BD was the result of machine-design is true)

 

[simon12]

Trinity is FM2 as it has on board graphics so needs a new socket, I would think they will release an AM3+ version but only because of logic which there was little of in Bulldozers release.

 

[AbdullahG]

So PD is based on the BD architect, but tweaked, right? How extensive is the "tweaking?" Is it a major arch change?

 

[AbdullahG]

Has AMD made any sort of comments about Bulldozer's failure yet?

Yes:
http://blogs.amd.com/play/2011/10/13/our-take-on-amd-fx/

I wouldn't call BD a failure, but rather a disappointment for some (if not most). BD needs work, but I try not to give up ALL hope on AMD.

 

[purple stain]

Will Piledriver still use the AM3+ socket and 9xx series mobos?

 

[AbdullahG]

Will Piledriver still use the AM3+ socket and 9xx series mobos?

Yes. Trinity, however, is an APU and will use the FM2 socket if you were confused with that.

 

[dogman_1234]

Whats with all the socket changing now?

 

[AbdullahG]

Whats with all the socket changing now?

APUs use the FM sockets. CPUs use the AM socket.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Trinity is FM2 as it has on board graphics so needs a new socket, I would think they will release an AM3+ version but only because of logic which there was little of in Bulldozers release.

There will be a AM3+ which will be like BD, only CPU. FM2 (not sure on that yet) will be Trinity which is PD (was BD but changed) with a GPU. Thats the whole reason for the FM1 socket, the on die GPU changed the pinout too much to make it work on AM3.

 

[dogman_1234]

Let me get this straight:

Zambezi(BD) will be replaced by Vishera(PD)
Stars(A series) will be replaced by Trinity
Stars is the Llano platform that will be replaced by Trinity, a whole new circuit.

Correct me if I am wrong?

 

[dogman_1234]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111026223104_AMD_Expects_Trinity_t😵ffer_20_30_Performance_Increase.html

 

[jimmysmitty]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111026223104_AMD_Expects_Trinity_t😵ffer_20_30_Performance_Increase.html

I will doubt 30% CPU wise. I can see GPU wise.

I don't think the GPU will be the next gen but a refresh of the HD6K series, still VILW4 not MIMD as only the ones that I think will actually use the MIMD is the HD79XX series. I also think that the Trinity GPU will be the HD7K equivalent to current Llano GPUs but will allow for higher clocks in some way.

The entire HD7K series, apart from the HD79XX, will be a die shrink of Cayman Islands but have higher clocks thanks to the 28nm process. Look at the rumored specs of the HD7870. Exact same specs as the HD6970, same sharder amount, GDDR5, 2GB but higher clock speeds for the core and memory, thanks to about a 100W drop, to allow for a slight performance boost.

The HD7970 on the other hand will be MIMD, 2GB of XDR2 @ 8000MHz, 1000MHz core, 2048SPUs and a 512Bit memory interface (reminds me of the HD2900).

It will also more than double the GPixels/s fill rate (64 vs 28.2) and increase the GTixels/s by 50% (128 vs 84.5). As well it will boast a whopping 338.2 GB/s memory bandwidth vs 176GB/s (almost double). Hell its more powerful in almost every area than the HD6990 except GTixels/s (159.2) which means we could possibly have another HD5870, a card that performed the same as a HD4870X2 for the most part but it could possibly beat the HD6990.

All that aside, thats why I don't think Trinity will be as big a jump as they say it will.

 

[Scoregie]

Just a quick question here if they did a die shrink of PHII how much estimated performance would that have given? Would it have been able to clock a lot higher? and is there a chance we'll see that coz i kinda wanna c it.

 

[simon12]

Just a quick question here if they did a die shrink of PHII how much estimated performance would that have given? Would it have been able to clock a lot higher? and is there a chance we'll see that coz i kinda wanna c it.

I would like to see that too but I don't think we will. If they took a Phenom x4 + die shrink + BDs turbo and memory controller and had it clocked at 4GHz + 4,6GHz turbo then you may get a CPU that can reach close to a 2500K for a maybe cheaper price and definitely better than 4 core BD. Again this is pure speculation and I may not work but its would be worth ago instead of releasing BD.

 

[lilcinw]

I don't think there is any hope for a 32nm Phenom III either. I think AMD is ceding the IPC game to Intel and is going to try and develop products that push the market in new directions instead of trying to constantly trying to play catch up.

If you can't win the game, change it.

I think the APU and module game they are playing now is a good strategic choice, but they have to be able to implement their innovations better than they did with BD.

If AMD can deliver on their designs and ARM is able to make any headway in the server market I think Intel may be the one left scratching their head for once.

 

[metallifux]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/27/amd-reports-1-69-billion-in-revenue-for-q3-net-income-of-97-m/

Things were starting to look pretty bleak in Q2 for AMD, but Q3 is an entirely different story. The company reported a revenue of $1.69 billion, up 7-percent from last quarter. More importantly, net income climbed to $97 million, up from just $61 million in Q2 and a far cry from the $118 million loss posted this time last year. Even the graphics division had good news to share. After the former ATI ran at an operating loss of $7 million last quarter, it netted $12 million in operating income in Q2. We wouldn't exactly call this the second coming of the CPU underdog, but it certainly should make fans and investors sleep a little better at night. Check out the complete PR after the break.

 

[lilcinw]

I think a game changer is a good start but performance is still the no1 thing to have for us enthusiasts and gamers alike.

Which goes back to implementation. The goal for BD was to hold the line or slightly improve IPC. If they had been able to do that I think we would have seen a much different reception for BD.

Instead we are seeing IPC that is worse than Phenom II and BD is considered a major disappointment.

 

[dogman_1234]

I will doubt 30% CPU wise. I can see GPU wise.

I don't think the GPU will be the next gen but a refresh of the HD6K series, still VILW4 not MIMD as only the ones that I think will actually use the MIMD is the HD79XX series. I also think that the Trinity GPU will be the HD7K equivalent to current Llano GPUs but will allow for higher clocks in some way.

The entire HD7K series, apart from the HD79XX, will be a die shrink of Cayman Islands but have higher clocks thanks to the 28nm process. Look at the rumored specs of the HD7870. Exact same specs as the HD6970, same sharder amount, GDDR5, 2GB but higher clock speeds for the core and memory, thanks to about a 100W drop, to allow for a slight performance boost.

The HD7970 on the other hand will be MIMD, 2GB of XDR2 @ 8000MHz, 1000MHz core, 2048SPUs and a 512Bit memory interface (reminds me of the HD2900).

It will also more than double the GPixels/s fill rate (64 vs 28.2) and increase the GTixels/s by 50% (128 vs 84.5). As well it will boast a whopping 338.2 GB/s memory bandwidth vs 176GB/s (almost double). Hell its more powerful in almost every area than the HD6990 except GTixels/s (159.2) which means we could possibly have another HD5870, a card that performed the same as a HD4870X2 for the most part but it could possibly beat the HD6990.

All that aside, thats why I don't think Trinity will be as big a jump as they say it will.

I see what you mean, but why doesn't AMD do a clean circuit design?

Also, I have to agree with you on Trinity. I only 10% boost on it from Llano.