AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[anxiousinfusion]

"As it appears from AMD's documents revealed earlier this year, starting from Piledriver micro-architecture and going forward, AMD's Fusion accelerated processing units (chips that integrate both x86 and stream processing cores) will feature "reduced", or "early" micro-architectural feature-set, whereas central processing units based on new designs will feature "full" or "late" feature-set. As a result, x86 performance of the former will be lower than x86 performance of the latter.

For example, only fully-fledged "late" Piledriver inside Viperfish model 2xh will be able to execute numerous new instructions as well as will receive instructions per clock (IPC) increase. Even though reduced "early" Piledriver inside code-named Trinity APUs model 1xh will be more advanced than the original Bulldozer model 0xh, the x86 cores are projected to be slightly less efficient than those of the full Piledriver.
"

source-
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20120524182802_AMD_Rumoured_to_Start_Production_of_Next_Gen_FX_Chips_in_Q3.html

If AMD's modules lose performance via power efficiency when they are crammed into an APU design, is it fair to assume that Steamroller and Excavator (both planned APUs) might suffer in performance compared to a hypothetical non-APU Steamroller/Excavator? I know that Piledriver may be AMD's last CPU-only desktop chips. Maybe, but unlikely, there will be non-APU variants of the new chips.

 

[esrever]

If AMD's modules lose performance via power efficiency when they are crammed into an APU design, is it fair to assume that Steamroller and Excavator (both planned APUs) might suffer in performance compared to a hypothetical non-APU Steamroller/Excavator? I know that Piledriver may be AMD's last CPU-only desktop chips. Maybe, but unlikely, there will be non-APU variants of the new chips.

why wouldn't they make more desktop chips without the gpu? Steamroller isn't planned as an APU, the APU platform with it is called Kaveri, just like trinity is to piledriver. It is assumed they will release a steamroller cpu like Vishera is for piledriver.

Also the reason the desktop part will perform better is because it will have L3 as well as additional tweaks. Not because cramming it into an APU reduces the architecture efficiency.

 

[gamerk316]

My current PC will crush the XBox 720 and PS4 sadly enough. Not sure they could fit a overclocked HD7970, 4.5GHz 2500K and 16GB of 1600MHz DDR3 into such a small space and contain no only the heat but the awesomeness.

But consoles don't NEED PC like specs. You have a very light OS, and have much less overhead to start. Secondly, because you have a unified architecture [one hardware specification], you can optimize to a much higher degree then you can on a PC. I laugh when I hear people claim that consoles "need" 4GB of RAM to be competitive, when they can easily make due with 1GB.

Thats the latest rumor. But that seems to change every few months. First was Cell again but a new GPU. Then it was a new CPU (unknown) and a equivalent to a HD4870 but no DX11. Then it was a CPU (unknown) and equivalent to HD6670 (still the XBox 720s current rumor) now its a possible APU with a "Tahiti" GPU capable of 1.8TFLOPs.....

I guess we will see a new rumor in the next few months. Maybe one with a BD CPU and Kepler based GPU?

I figure a 5000/6000 series AMD GPU makes sense for both platforms going forward; mature architecture with reasonable heat loads. Personally betting on a modified 6670. As far as CPU goes, I'd be shocked [doubly in the case of the PS4] if Sony or MS goes away from a PPC based architecture.

 

[Microgoliath]

Well, I'm playing an MMORPG called TERA

Quite a bit of topic here but what is your opinion on the game, is it worth its subs per month? I got into BnS CBT, game made by NCsoft as well and really enjoyed it. Just don't want to waste money.

(to keep a bit on topic)
Blade and Soul which is another mmo made on UE3 taxes my athlon quad as well, and i personally think PD will be 20% better than thuban

 

[-Fran-]

But consoles don't NEED PC like specs. You have a very light OS, and have much less overhead to start. Secondly, because you have a unified architecture [one hardware specification], you can optimize to a much higher degree then you can on a PC. I laugh when I hear people claim that consoles "need" 4GB of RAM to be competitive, when they can easily make due with 1GB.



I figure a 5000/6000 series AMD GPU makes sense for both platforms going forward; mature architecture with reasonable heat loads. Personally betting on a modified 6670. As far as CPU goes, I'd be shocked [doubly in the case of the PS4] if Sony or MS goes away from a PPC based architecture.

Well, to be fair, most studios are using a 3rd party APIs for their graphical needs, so they're only left to deal with physics and sound. It's up to the Unreal, Crytech and Frostbyte engines the optimization part on the graphical side and they're pretty familiar with X86. I'm sure there won't be an overhead for the switch from PPC. Moreover when the port costs will get lower, I'd guess. Although I really don't know how a console's OS manages CPU access, I'm sure it adds an abstraction layer at least... Not sure 😛

Quite a bit of topic here but what is your opinion on the game, is it worth its subs per month? I got into BnS CBT, game made by NCsoft as well and really enjoyed it. Just don't want to waste money.

(to keep a bit on topic)
Blade and Soul which is another mmo made on UE3 taxes my athlon quad as well, and i personally think PD will be 20% better than thuban

If you know how to move and are tired of "clicky tab button smash Hulk", TERA is quite the game. Think about it this way; an archer class has to really AIM to hit stuff just like melee classes need to aim where they slash and hit; ans skills have to be properly timed to hit in combo fashion (more damage, less stop time between them; you can choose which skills to combo). So far, I'm quite entertained with the game and the PvP is quite good.

And PD could be good enough for me to upgrade, but since I already have a heavily OCed PhII, PD will have to really impress me or I'll jump ship 😛

Cheers!

 

[gamerk316]

Well, to be fair, most studios are using a 3rd party APIs for their graphical needs, so they're only left to deal with physics and sound.

Thats a bit generous. Yes, Unreal has a nice toolkit...when it works. Unreal 3 is notorious for being a bit unstable. Even then, a LOT of work goes into getting graphics to work correctly. Its not as easy as "let the API do it", you still need to pass in the relevent data for the API to go and do its thing.

It's up to the Unreal, Crytech and Frostbyte engines the optimization part on the graphical side and they're pretty familiar with X86.

They're also very familiar with PPC, especially since Unreal 3 was designed with the 360 in mind. And again, barring some very heavy workload inner loop, most optimizations are done automatically by the compiler. Developers do not do manual optimization unless it is NEEDED.

I'm sure there won't be an overhead for the switch from PPC. Moreover when the port costs will get lower, I'd guess.

...you are aware most PC/Console games are developed side by side, right? The whole "porting" thing is a myth. Granted, there are a few legitamate cases of games being ported after the fact [Red Faction 3, for example], but those are the exception.

Although I really don't know how a console's OS manages CPU access, I'm sure it adds an abstraction layer at least... Not sure

Theres still a LOT of raw access going on. For example, even though the PS3 has an OpenGL ES 2.0 layer, it is typically not used due to speed concerns [specifically, the inability to immediatly grab data from the PS3's GPU's framebuffer]. The low level graphical library, libgcm, is used instead.

There is a LOT of mix and match between higher level API's and low level assembly, but you can get away with this because you have ONE hardware specification, allowing a large degree of optimization without having to worry about breaking something.

 

[lilcinw]

@gamerk316 What is your background with consoles? You talk about these issues like you work in game development. Do you or is it just something you have an extreme interest in?

 

[Microgoliath]

@ Yuka

Thanks for that info, been looking for a decent replacement to WoW for a solid 2 years now since i quit.

Think i'll just buy, can't be a complete waste of money.

 

[dogman_1234]

+1+1
better go out and buy all the 975BE and 980BE's you can..

Why is that?

 

[amdcpus]

AMD roadmap:

Bullcrapper
Pilecrap
Excreter


I'm waiting for Pilecrap to come out myself. I figure it'll run hot, but will feel good once it comes out.

forgot steamroller 😉

 

[davemaster84]

Well was tuban for been more accurate. Anyway I am sure that PD will outperform the x6 1100t for at least 10 to 15% in gaming, maybe a little bit more in multiheaded tasks.

 

[dogman_1234]

the last of the better performing chip before PD arrives IF PD matches Deneb..

By that logic, can I speculate my 1090t has a greater retail value than in the past?

 

[Haserath]

3...2...1...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224.html

*spit take*

 

[viridiancrystal]

3...2...1...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224.html

*spit take*

So Trinity manages to match Llano with 1 extra Ghz on the clock. That doesn't give me a excited feeling for PD. More of an anxious one. Ug.

My reaction: http://viridiancrystal.bandcamp.com/track/oh

 

[jimmysmitty]

So Trinity manages to match Llano with 1 extra Ghz on the clock. That doesn't give me a excited feeling for PD. More of an anxious one. Ug.

My reaction: http://viridiancrystal.bandcamp.com/track/oh

The cache also has higher clock cycles, 4 vs 3 L1 and 20 vs 14 L2. Thats not suprising as its still based off of BD.

But its sad that it does take a 1GHz clock speed extra to beat it.

As for the IGP, its better but not the rumored numbers touted around. I think its decent though.

Still, I am sad they didn't do more CPU based benchmarks and as well a per clock comparison just for laughs.

Also, why no Intel parts benched for comparison? I would like to see how a 2500K matched up to the top end Trinity (PD) based cores in CPU so we could get a preliminary on PDs performance.

 

[Haserath]

So Trinity manages to match Llano with 1 extra Ghz on the clock. That doesn't give me a excited feeling for PD. More of an anxious one. Ug.

My reaction: http://viridiancrystal.bandcamp.com/track/oh

It's not all about IPC. It beats llano while using the same amount of power. FPU performance is still weak, but it's a big step forward from Bulldozer.

 

[dogman_1234]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKXjk3JexSg

 

[jdwii]

So Trinity manages to match Llano with 1 extra Ghz on the clock. That doesn't give me a excited feeling for PD. More of an anxious one. Ug.

My reaction: http://viridiancrystal.bandcamp.com/track/oh

-1

15% faster without L3 cache!

15% faster per clock without L3 sorry but this is better then i thought!

 

[jdwii]

Not to mention its 15% faster in IPC while using less energy and has a graphics core on die and if this chip can clock at 4.5-4.8 OC i'm pretty sure Piledriver will be 15-20% faster on average while using 10-15% less energy when compared to bulldozer i just hope its priced well.

 

[esrever]

Vishera might give the i7 3770k a run for its money, Given how close bulldozer was to the i7 2600k in threaded bench marks. 15+% IPC and 10% on clock over bulldozer could make it. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I wish they included an FX4100 and a i3 2120 in there too.

 

[Reynod]

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/amd-claims-no-delays-with-desktop-trinity/

says no delays on desktop trinity and from what it quotes that the chips should launch very soon. Looks to be a July launch or something.

Yes, typically they will want to package at heap of them before giving the release date.

I suggest Late July ... maybe August.

They shoudl sell well given Chris's article on the from page too.

An A10 and mobo with a mid range discrete card ... nive upgrade.

What was the best CF card they will support with the onboard GPU ??

Wonder how well they will go together.

Power at idle looks very good too.

Whips the HD4000 too.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224.html

 

[amdfangirl]

1.) main - [url]http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/2400198.png[/url]
2.) fun box - [url]http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/2400185.png[/url]
3.) ms mental - [url]http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/2403441.png[/url]
4.) 6.5 year old son (lil mal) - [url]http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/2403446.png[/url]
5.) 4.5 year old daughter (princess mal) in progress (i3-2120)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m529/malmental/12.gif

Your 6.5 year old son has a roughly equivalent computer to mine (if you discount overclocking). Your daughter will probably have a better rig than mine as well.

Excessive much?

😀

 

[Chad Boga]

-1

http://media.bestofmicro.com/E/Z/341387/original/per core itunes.png

15% faster without L3 cache!


http://media.bestofmicro.com/E/X/341385/original/per core 3dsmax.png

15% faster per clock without L3 sorry but this is better then i thought!

Is that representative across the board, or the two best results?

 

[davemaster84]

By that logic, can I speculate my 1090t has a greater retail value than in the past?

Yes it does, the tuban series are difficult to find and everyone knows that a 1090t is almost the same than the 1100t. If you search ebay you'll find a few tubans, very overpriced.

 

[davemaster84]

not necessarily..
gaming the 980BE wins.

90% Of the reviews I saw shows 1100t over the 980, only one or a couple of games by the most show better fps with the 980. About PD it really seems like a good improve, I hope the 8350 is not priced beyond $250