AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[MU_Engineer]

I wouldnt turn down a cheap QX9770 system LOL
What did Intel call that dual 9770 system again?
I would still like to find one of those on Craigslist

Intel called the DS5400XS board "Skulltrail." I don't think it will come cheap, the board was rare and pricey as are the DDR2-800 FB-DIMMs. However you can use any LGA771 Xeons you like, you don't need QX9775s.

 

[jdwii]

http://www.hardzone.es/2012/06/29/amd-fx-6300-y-fx-4320-mas-procesadores-fx-vishera/


The FX-4320 will be the quad-core model and will replace the FX-4170, will operate at a frequency above 4.2Ghz/4.3Ghz and will have 12MB of cache in total.The FX-

6300 FX-6200 will replace and operate at frequencies above 3.8Ghz/4.1Ghz, all with 14MB of cache and six cores in total. It is also expected to be the first native six-core processor from AMD, since the current reality is the eight-core processors with two of them off.

What if Amd can release all their pile driver processors at a clock speed of 4.0ghz or more that would be a pretty good marketing move.

 

[-Fran-]

Ah, so the next FX6300 will be a tri-module chip designed as one, huh?

That should save some power from the disabled modules and help a little more room for OC, am I right?

I wonder why they did that.

Cheers!

 

[lilcinw]

http://www.hardzone.es/2012/06/29/amd-fx-6300-y-fx-4320-mas-procesadores-fx-vishera/


The FX-4320 will be the quad-core model and will replace the FX-4170, will operate at a frequency above 4.2Ghz/4.3Ghz and will have 12MB of cache in total.The FX-

6300 FX-6200 will replace and operate at frequencies above 3.8Ghz/4.1Ghz, all with 14MB of cache and six cores in total. It is also expected to be the first native six-core processor from AMD, since the current reality is the eight-core processors with two of them off.

What if Amd can release all their pile driver processors at a clock speed of 4.0ghz or more that would be a pretty good marketing move.

Wait... did Thubans never happen?

I doubt AMD will design a native three module die. They seem to do okay with their single die strategy that they have been using for a while now. It would make more sense for them to do a dual module die if they were going to create derivatives.

This reminds me, is there any way to unlock modules in BD? Everyone loved unlocking their Phenoms but I haven't heard the same with FX chips.

 

[$hawn]

Wait... did Thubans never happen?

I doubt AMD will design a native three module die. They seem to do okay with their single die strategy that they have been using for a while now. It would make more sense for them to do a dual module die if they were going to create derivatives.

If u look at it, the number of FX 6xxx and FX 4xxx chips sold just slightly exceeds the number of FX 8xxx chips sold on Newegg. Not sure if this is a global trend, but cheaper chips usually sell more, especially in Asia.

Now when nearly 50% of the chips made are being sold with one or more modules disabled, i think its an excellent idea to start making native 3 modules and stop the waste of silicon. During BD's launch, things were different, they had a very poor yields, so it made sense to sell the slightly bad die as fx 6xxx and fx 4xxx. Today, that's not an issue

The native 8cores goes into the FX 8xxx and server chips, while the native module goes into FX 4xxx, 6xxx and again server chips. Infact, i was expecting something like this from AMD

Making a dual module is a bad idea. Only FX 4xxx's can be made.

 

[de5_Roy]

dual module quad core pd with 12 mb cache!? why so much l3 cache? trinity seems to do fine without l3..
the l3 cache amount seems like the ones that server cpus use. if desktop pd chips are derived from server cpus, that'd mean they have slightly different architecture/manufacturing than trinity...? i have so many questions...
on the plus side, amd is literally selling more (l3 cache) for price (vs core i3/i5). 😛

 

[Cazalan]

AMD doesn't ship enough FX chips to warrant separate designs for 2 module and 4 module. It sounds straight forward to just cut out two modules but there's still a lot of work that has to be done besides that. Testing is done at the die and package level that would be different.

Even Intel uses the same die for i3/i5/i7 so if it isn't worth it for the volumes they deal with there's no chance AMD would benefit from it.

 

[$hawn]

dual module quad core pd with 12 mb cache!? why so much l3 cache? trinity seems to do fine without l3..
the l3 cache amount seems like the ones that server cpus use. if desktop pd chips are derived from server cpus, that'd mean they have slightly different architecture/manufacturing than trinity...? i have so many questions...
on the plus side, amd is literally selling more (l3 cache) for price (vs core i3/i5). 😛

Thats total 12MB
2+2+8=12

 

[$hawn]

Even Intel uses the same die for i3/i5/i7 so if it isn't worth it for the volumes they deal with there's no chance AMD would benefit from it.

IIRC for desktop chips, core i3's,pentiums and celerons G's are made from one die.
Core i5 and i7 normal editions are another die
And the K edition chips are yet another die. 😀

Don't noe about laptop chips thoe

 

[de5_Roy]

huh. that makes more sense.

 

[$hawn]

If im not mistaken...all the i5Ms and i3Ms are the same die, turbo and no turbo.
Pentiums seems to be just another i3 as well, just HT disabled.

yea i guess that's rite....i5 M's are like core i3's with turbo enabled. Only the i7M's are true quads

 

[4745454b]

I'm pretty sure the Ks are the same die as well. They just don't get a locked multiplier.

Now when nearly 50% of the chips made are being sold with one or more modules disabled, i think its an excellent idea to start making native 3 modules and stop the waste of silicon.

Its not a waste of silicon if they are die harvesting. Wasting the silicon would be if they chucked the entire chip instead of turning it into a 6core and selling it.

 

[jdwii]

Sorry to change the subject a little but please look at the 4170fx benchmarks

http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=773&page=0

I'm actually laughing its clocked 31% higher and also has 4MB more cache and faster ram and its still slower then the 955 per core and on average.

Edit
Uses more power on load as well but it does beat the 955 on some gaming.

 

[$hawn]

I'm pretty sure the Ks are the same die as well. They just don't get a locked multiplier.

I don't think so...K editions also have HD3000 graphics I remember reading somewhere that they're a different die

Its not a waste of silicon if they are die harvesting. Wasting the silicon would be if they chucked the entire chip instead of turning it into a 6core and selling it.

That's what i was tryna tell....with BD it was okay; coz of pathetic yields they had lots of half bad dies to make FX 6xxx and 4xxx.
Now that GF yields are way better, the number of defective chips will be lower.....so simply disabling modules on perfect die will be a waste of both silicon and money It's high time for the native tri-module

 

[4745454b]

Are we talking IB or SB here? I can see the chips being the same die made at the same time. Those that are perfect are left with the unlocked multiplier. Those that have issues get a locked multiplier and half the GPU locked as well. (HD3000 vs 2000.)

I see what you mean about AMD now. Its always been a problem for them. Its great when they start and process/yields are bad. They get to sell chips they would have tossed. But once things get better what to do? Make a new die/chip, or disable fully working chips for cheaper ones.

 

[$hawn]

yea...i guess i was wrong bout the K edition chips

 

[lilcinw]

I don't think AMD is going to change the die strategy they have been using for at least the past three years. Look at Phenom II/Athlon II. I don't think they ever produced reduced dies for those lineups, even some of the original Athlon IIs were Phenom IIs with disabled cache and not a separate die.

This is the reason the AMD community was so hyped about the ability to 'unlock' cores on X2 and X3 chips. Everything was still there and the gamble of opening up your dual core into a quad was tantalizing to many.

Once yields improved, as has been pointed out, it became much harder to find Phenom II X3s since there was no need to disable good silicon.

I think AMD is going to move into platform convergence between their CPUs and APUs. Then if you want a dual module processor they are going to sell you an APU and if you want MOAR COARS!!!! 😛 you will be sold an FX. There will probably be die harvests on both sides (Athlon II for FM1 anyone?) that show up but the majority of sales will fall into separate product lines.

If I remember correctly this is supposed to occur with Steamroller on FM2(?) in 2013.

 

[de5_Roy]

i think the apus will take place of athlons and low end phenoms. iirc there were llano athlons with disabled igpu... fm2 and later will become amd's value and midrange mainstream lineup where 'high end' (according to amd's terms) lineup will consist of performance desktop cpus derived from server chips. similar to what they did with llano and bd.
i don't think platforms will converge, though. name/titles might.

 

[esrever]

Sorry to change the subject a little but please look at the 4170fx benchmarks

http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=773&page=0

I'm actually laughing its clocked 31% higher and also has 4MB more cache and faster ram and its still slower then the 955 per core and on average.

Edit
Uses more power on load as well but it does beat the 955 on some gaming.

depends on the benchmark. In winrar, which is about the only realistic benchmark in the suit, it does much better than the 955.

 

[-Fran-]

depends on the benchmark. In winrar, which is about the only realistic benchmark in the suit, it does much better than the 955.

Notice it's a stock clocked 955...

Anyway... There's nothing new in that review jdwii. Why posting it?

It will be interesting to see the FX4300 battle the 980 stock and OCed.

Cheers!

EDIT: Typo

 

[jdwii]

Notice it's a stock clocked 955...

Anyway... There's nothing new in that review jdwii. Why posting it?

It will be interesting to see the FX4300 battle the 980 stock and OCed.

Cheers!

EDIT: Typo

It showed a 30% clock advantage on top of 4MB of Cache made the 4170fx and the 955 basically even on top of that a 955 is 125watts and a 955 is 125 watts and on max power consumption the 955 uses less power. Basically this is why even a 15% IPC improvement isn't going to make piledriver even to the Phenom In IPC i still think on average the Phenom is going to be 5-10% faster per clock. But Piledriver will fix the max power consumption.

Cheers Lol i had to.

 

[noob2222]

Looks like PD is already doomed. This one benchmark on this one website showed that a dual module cpu is slower than a quad core cpu in this one particular benchmark and the dual module cpu draws just as much power as the quad module big brother when running Their "burn in test"

isn't it funny that the 8150 and the 4170 have the same power draw?

198W to 252W ... or 212 to 214... So which one is wrong, they can't both be right...

 

[jpardo2]

Can't find where I read it on this post, someone said that what if all of AMD's chips were marketed at stock speeds of 4.0GHZ+, and that it would be a good marketing strategy. I agree to an extent, but the secret is out on what BD can and cannot do, and if PD is only 10-15% better overall, 4.0GHZ still won't measure up to the next best intel chip running on less power and lower clock speeds. They need to redesign everything from the ground up, I know that it would cost the company millions upon millions, but in order for them to compete in intels market, they need to rebuild.

Personally I think AMD is content with the market share they have at this point, they put out a product that does perform well (to people who don't live their lives running benchmarks all day lmao) and they cost somewhat less than intels.

 

[$hawn]

sad that JF-AMD isn't here. He could use this tip for the whole FX line up.....

"Clock Speeds of at least 4ghz, compared to Intel's 3ghz"
Then again, he's server guy, not client guy

Leave him alone dude...he's gone anyway.
He's only human!!!

 

[viridiancrystal]

dual module quad core pd with 12 mb cache!? why so much l3 cache? trinity seems to do fine without l3..
the l3 cache amount seems like the ones that server cpus use. if desktop pd chips are derived from server cpus, that'd mean they have slightly different architecture/manufacturing than trinity...? i have so many questions...
on the plus side, amd is literally selling more (l3 cache) for price (vs core i3/i5). 😛

12mb is the total cache, as mentioned. All FX chips have 8mb of l3 cache, and for each module the chip gets 2mb of l2 cache.

Can't find where I read it on this post, someone said that what if all of AMD's chips were marketed at stock speeds of 4.0GHZ+, and that it would be a good marketing strategy. I agree to an extent, but the secret is out on what BD can and cannot do, and if PD is only 10-15% better overall, 4.0GHZ still won't measure up to the next best intel chip running on less power and lower clock speeds. They need to redesign everything from the ground up, I know that it would cost the company millions upon millions, but in order for them to compete in intels market, they need to rebuild.

Personally I think AMD is content with the market share they have at this point, they put out a product that does perform well (to people who don't live their lives running benchmarks all day lmao) and they cost somewhat less than intels.

PD looks to be 10-15% better IPC based on Trinity. Higher clocks, l3 cache, and any small tweaks made will improve it even more overall.

Okay well sorry if i post something that has already been posted.
I read about trinity and it has about 15% better ipc then bulldozerdozer which to me isn't quite enough considering that phenom ii has around that much only way i can justified getting one is if i wanted a 8 core but I really only game on my pc. Only game that comes to mind that takes advantage of that is bf3 but I'm only rocking a hd 6850 so I be bottleneck on gpu before taking advantage of those 8 cores. the phenom ii are better at dealing with floating points.

I read whats prevously posted but i will once i post this. lol

All valve games made after The Orange Box take advantage of 8 cores, Dirt 3 does also. Most games do not, but there are some that do, and the % is increasing.