AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[bobbybamf12]

Okay I'm going to sum everything up between AMD and intel. Intel wins hands down even piledriver won't be close to a sandy bridge performance but.... as long as piledriver fills your need then sweet go for it. The fact is intel may cost more money but it may save you money in the long run. I mean i'm sure a phenom ii x6 oc 4ghz will last longer then the bulldozer 8150 in the long run in gaming and most likely at other things. Okay i5 2500k vs fx 8150 which will have the longer life? obvously the 2500k so you needs to upgrade soon will be out of the question. If piledriver delivers the performance it's rumour to have which may be an upgrade from an fx series barely an upgrade from a phenom ii black edition. Of course, fx and piledriver have some advatages over phenom ii's but nothing worth upgrading to. Maybe the cpu thats coming after piledriver may be an upgrade worth getting and maybe(this is a big maybe) be close to an i5 2500K in ipc. By that time intel will have something that puts the i5 2500k to shame i'm sure.

So this whole talk about piledriver and intel is just kinda pointless only thing you should compare an AMD cpu to is another AMD cpu.

Of course bulldozer and piledriver have their benefits like all new cpu's but I'm talking about IPC here and thats probably one of the most important parts about a cpu. Who cares if a cpu rocking 8 cores or 20 cores but if most games/apps use 2-4 cores then its pointless.

I also know not everyone will get the cpu's for gaming but the benefits still dont out weigh intel cpu's. Its sad i wish AMD step up their game!

 

[viridiancrystal]

Okay I'm going to sum everything up between AMD and intel. Intel wins hands down even piledriver won't be close to a sandy bridge performance but.... as long as piledriver fills your need then sweet go for it. The fact is intel may cost more money but it may save you money in the long run. I mean i'm sure a phenom ii x6 oc 4ghz will last longer then the bulldozer 8150 in the long run in gaming and most likely at other things. Okay i5 2500k vs fx 8150 which will have the longer life? obvously the 2500k so you needs to upgrade soon will be out of the question. If piledriver delivers the performance it's rumour to have which may be an upgrade from an fx series barely an upgrade from a phenom ii black edition. Of course, fx and piledriver have some advatages over phenom ii's but nothing worth upgrading to. Maybe the cpu thats coming after piledriver may be an upgrade worth getting and maybe(this is a big maybe) be close to an i5 2500K in ipc. By that time intel will have something that puts the i5 2500k to shame i'm sure.

So this whole talk about piledriver and intel is just kinda pointless only thing you should compare an AMD cpu to is another AMD cpu.

Of course bulldozer and piledriver have their benefits like all new cpu's but I'm talking about IPC here and thats probably one of the most important parts about a cpu. Who cares if a cpu rocking 8 cores or 20 cores but if most games/apps use 2-4 cores then its pointless.

I also know not everyone will get the cpu's for gaming but the benefits still dont out weigh intel cpu's. Its sad i wish AMD step up their game!

It's all about what the cpu is used for. For a workstation-style use (rendering/editing, etc.) the FX-8120 at $170 is a good deal. If all your doing is gaming, Intel is the way to go. Any thing over an unlocked i5 is overkill right now.

 

[Cazalan]

I also know not everyone will get the cpu's for gaming but the benefits still dont out weigh intel cpu's. Its sad i wish AMD step up their game!

The problem when a company is on a decline is the good talent leaves first. AMD got their talent from DEC Alpha to make the Althlon/Phenom. The insider reports say those engineers have since moved to greener pastures. How else can you explain the 5 year design cycle of Bulldozer that was worse than Phenom x6.

 

[dogman_1234]

IIRC AMD stock went as far south as a buck sixty-three a few years back.

I would wait for their Q2 conference call next Thursday and see what their prognosis is for the current quarter and EOY.

Speculating much?

If thier stock does go down that low...might buy it. However; unless they get their act together, no stock for them

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Speculating much?

If thier stock does go down that low...might buy it. However; unless they get their act together, no stock for them

Unfortunately, by the time we hear that AMD "got its act together", the stock price would probably have gone way up 😛..

Here's an insider tip for ya: Likely something big at Apple will happen the 2nd week of September.

 

[-Fran-]

so would you upgrade from 840 to 975.?
that I might do but would have to make sure the 840 is sold first..

An upgrade is an upgrade. The 840 is a 3.2Ghz part and we're talking about a 1Ghz bump by going to the 975BE (if you actually OC it). Problem is, the power consumption will go very high as well 😛

I don't have a clear picture on how well the Phenom IIs scale with pure speed though, so I wouldn't put my hands on fire to recommend it as an upgrade without researching that first.

If you're going to build a new computer for cheap though, you can't deny that's a sexy deal paired with the right MoBo for a cheap, but powerful build.

Cheers!

EDIT: hahaha, look what I found 😛

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenom2_x4_975_840/

 

[bobbybamf12]

It's all about what the cpu is used for. For a workstation-style use (rendering/editing, etc.) the FX-8120 at $170 is a good deal. If all your doing is gaming, Intel is the way to go. Any thing over an unlocked i5 is overkill right now.

Yeah totally agree i know bulldozer deffinitely benfits of having 8 cores even if it's just 4 modules. The thing is intel can release an 8 core easily.(won't be for awhile tho) I have a amd cpu phenom ii x4 965 so i'm no fan boy its just the truth. I want AMD to compete they need to. 15% better ipc will help them stay alive. WHich intel rather AMD to stay afloat cause if they sink the goverment will step in on intel. Our country isn't kind to monopoly(thank god) and will forces prices on intel which will cause them more headaches then AMD.

 

[bobbybamf12]

The problem when a company is on a decline is the good talent leaves first. AMD got their talent from DEC Alpha to make the Althlon/Phenom. The insider reports say those engineers have since moved to greener pastures. How else can you explain the 5 year design cycle of Bulldozer that was worse than Phenom x6.

Your right I'm sure i didn't read to much on AMD. I want them to more then just barely get by. AMD pick a architechure and commiting to it lets hope for all of us it turns out to be right. Even the intel fanboy will benefit from the AMD better compitition.

 

[esrever]

An upgrade is an upgrade. The 840 is a 3.2Ghz part and we're talking about a 1Ghz bump by going to the 975BE (if you actually OC it). Problem is, the power consumption will go very high as well 😛

I don't have a clear picture on how well the Phenom IIs scale with pure speed though, so I wouldn't put my hands on fire to recommend it as an upgrade without researching that first.

If you're going to build a new computer for cheap though, you can't deny that's a sexy deal paired with the right MoBo for a cheap, but powerful build.

Cheers!

EDIT: hahaha, look what I found 😛

the]http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenom2_x4_975_840/

the 840 is also missing the L3 which makes for an 10% improvement in gaming and such.

 

[kikiking]

how is pd and trinity shaping up people?

 

[-Fran-]

the 840 is also missing the L3 which makes for an 10% improvement in gaming and such.

I hardly see a difference based on L3 in there, to be honest. I wouldn't say that it's 10% advantage also. It's a good thing to have L3, but not worth of 10% improvements at the same clock speed.

Didn't we already have a long discussion about L3 a while back? hahaha

how is pd and trinity shaping up people?

No leaks on PD yet. Even less official ones 😛

All we're doing now is extrapolate what Toms found on Trinity's Desktop lunch. Around 15% improvements clock per clock against Bulldozer (be it IPC or whatever) and great power consumption numbers (I think, lol).

Cheers!

 

[EXT64]

Yep, my best guess at this point is that PD will be better than BD (that part is easy), better than the old Phenom IIs overall, though not perhaps per core (which is a big deal for software licenses), but still behind Intel in maximum performance and perf/watt. Perf/$ should be competitive or better if AMD is still interested in selling chips.

 

[jimmyd1964]

To my knowledge, Trinity has always been set for PD cores.
Charlie saw one awiles back, and its unconfirmed as to whether itll only be VLIW4 only, with no GCN added.
Its possible I suppose, but adding several designs, besides just dumb shrinks stretches their already stretched capacity, unless it works in their favor?

I agree, no dumb shrinks like Intel IvyB. It is just causing heat issues and with only a 5% increase in performance. AMD will go to 28nm but I am glad they let Intel discover the issues on 22nm first.
I do believe the PD and the Steamroller may be the last of the CPU's we see from AMD, as HSA in my opinion with full integration is the way to go. We already see the Pile Driver core at work in APU's.
I just bought a BD and may skip the PD so I can buy a Steamroller. After that it looks like a new Mobo for an FM socket of some kind.
But I will still be able to use a Graphics Card and get good crossfire with a APU.
I can't argue with the thought pattern however, to make a good CPU work as one with a good GCN-GPU in tight integration, it will be a super computer.
I can see a 15% improvement on Pile-driver, and 20% more on Steamroller with continued scalability on both because of reduced power consumption and HSA and stepping. I think Steamroller may be the first CPU to reach 4.7 to 5GHZ on turbo with a possible overclock to 5.9ghz maybe 6 with aftermarket cooling. (Out on a limb here) But a 20% OC on a 5GHZ =6.25. That would be cool. But I do believe it will have to be on 28nm scale.
I would also like to know if they can work a smaller type (nm scale) SeaMicro fabric into a wafer as the grid for the system clock, or go in a new direction like IBM and work on laser and\or fiber-optic combo for on-chip communication of data. Just dreaming now. And what about Nano tubes to cut down electron leak?
Thoughts?

 

[r0ck3tm@n]

Yep, my best guess at this point is that PD will be better than BD (that part is easy), better than the old Phenom IIs overall, though not perhaps per core (which is a big deal for software licenses), but still behind Intel in maximum performance and perf/watt. Perf/$ should be competitive or better if AMD is still interested in selling chips.

Too pessimistic. IPC will, I'm guessing from what I remember reading, be at least the same as the Phenom II maybe a little better. Piledriver will be the Bulldozer we all wanted, mostly. Power consumption will be much better but not as good as we want.

My hope is the successor to Piledriver will make me want to go back to AMD.

 

[palladin9479]

On the sidebar about the 975BE vs LGA1155, you don't "upgrade" from 840/970/975 to SB/IB CPUs, not physically possible. You must instead upgrade platforms which is considerably more expensive. The 975BE @$115 USD is only the CPU and we're assuming you already have a AM3/AM3+ mobo for it. Going with an LGA1155 option would be twice as much if not more due to you having to buy a board and a CPU. If your building new, then it's a no brainer to go with the better overall mobo + CPU.

You can not future proof in the world of technology. You can't keep "upgrading" every 6 months to a year. What you have to do is create a schedule that you will upgrade platforms on, and only do minor upgrades in between those major scheduled upgrades. Evaluate those major upgrades at the time you do them, not before, otherwise you'll always be "chasing technology".

 

[de5_Roy]

desktop trinity delays...

As far as when we might see AMD's Piledriver architecture emerge on the desktop, the company let us know not to expect the desktop version of its Trinity-based APU in the channel until October, at least. Apparently, the delay is intended to clear the supply of Llano-based APUs, which makes sense. It's also be a little awkward if the quad-core APUs turned out to be faster than quad-core FX-based CPUs still based on Bulldozer. (LOL) We have heard rumors of a Piledriver-based FX processor in Q3, though. If that turns out to be true, AMD could roll out new CPUs and APUs in relatively quick succession.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-overclock,3106.html
tip: if you're a fan of amd, disregard the rest of the article.

from vr-zone

Sources among motherboard makers told industry observer DigiTimes that a last-minute design change forced AMD and motherboard vendors to go back to the drawing boards. That's every company with working socket FM2 motherboard designs we spotted at this year's Computex event.
The design change will delay things for desktop variants of AMD's A-series "Trinity" APUs till October 2012. This development even affects the launch of the A10-5800K, a "flagship" quad-core APU in the series, geared for overclocking.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/desktop-amd-trinity-apu-launch-delayed-to-october/16669.html
so basically, two takes on the same thing - dt trinity is delayed. i am guessing it's worth the wait.

 

[esrever]

how are desktop trinity already shipping if the motherboards need to be redesigned?

 

[gamerk316]

desktop trinity delays...

from vr-zone

Sources among motherboard makers told industry observer DigiTimes that a last-minute design change forced AMD and motherboard vendors to go back to the drawing boards. That's every company with working socket FM2 motherboard designs we spotted at this year's Computex event.
The design change will delay things for desktop variants of AMD's A-series "Trinity" APUs till October 2012. This development even affects the launch of the A10-5800K, a "flagship" quad-core APU in the series, geared for overclocking.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/desktop-amd-trinity-apu-launch-delayed-to-october/16669.html
so basically, two takes on the same thing - dt trinity is delayed. i am guessing it's worth the wait.

Uhh....thats...not a good thing, no matter how you spin it. I'm REALLY interested what the design change was needed for...

 

[de5_Roy]

end is coming! coming! coming! coming...... lol..?
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27950-zambezi-fx-8150-dies-in-q4-2012
vishera...
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/27951-three-amd-quad-core-vishera-parts-in-q4-12

 

[Cazalan]

desktop trinity delays...

http://vr-zone.com/articles/desktop-amd-trinity-apu-launch-delayed-to-october/16669.html
so basically, two takes on the same thing - dt trinity is delayed. i am guessing it's worth the wait.

DT Trinity is shipping to some OEM's at least. HP/Acer seemed to have bought them out.

I checked my local Walmart over the weekend and they had a few A8-5500 (3.2/3.7Ghz) desktops from HP in stock. This is a bundled deal with a 23" monitor. HP Pavilion p7-1233wb.

You can find SKUs online without the bundle. HP Pavilion p7-1235

A10-5700 can be found in the HP Pavilion p7-1240.

AMD has left the enthusiast market. Maybe in Q4 with Vishera you'll find chips at Newegg again.

 

[Cazalan]

I'm surprised there aren't more reviews out.

OfficeMax has them for $449.

 

[noob2222]

The last of three quad-cores is AMD FX-4300 clocked at 3.8GHz, but capable of hitting the magic 4.0GHz figure a dash of Turbo. It has 8MB of cache

little bit of an odd man out. l3 cache cut in half compared to the rest of the line.

The AMD FX 8300 is also an eight-core processor with a 95W TDP that still has 16MB of cache and works at 3.3GHz default clock or 3.2GHz on Turbo

:lol:

 

[viridiancrystal]

I'm surprised that the clocks aren't much higher than BD. AMD might feel the improvements without are enough, or they want to focus on better power/thermals.

 

[palladin9479]

Probably cause the OEMs will grant them more cash since they're large scale contracts ?

Common misconception is that the enthusiast market actually means something. It's such a small fraction of the sales pie that even if AMD made the greatest CPU evar!! it wouldn't mean much. OEM sales are where all the money is (consumer wise) and most of that money is in the low / mid sector not the high end. When people buy computers, they go to a big box store, or order online and usually get the cheap $999 or less model. They don't sit there and pick out motherboards / ram / CPU's, at most they'll be presented with three to four CPU options and they'll pick the one they think they can afford.

Most of us build our own rigs, so absolute performance is a critical issue. We like to know that we've made something and own it. Most consumers couldn't care less what's inside the PC, as long as it does what they want it to do.

 

[Blandge]

Common misconception is that the enthusiast market actually means something. It's such a small fraction of the sales pie that even if AMD made the greatest CPU evar!! it wouldn't mean much. OEM sales are where all the money is (consumer wise) and most of that money is in the low / mid sector not the high end. When people buy computers, they go to a big box store, or order online and usually get the cheap $999 or less model. They don't sit there and pick out motherboards / ram / CPU's, at most they'll be presented with three to four CPU options and they'll pick the one they think they can afford.

Most of us build our own rigs, so absolute performance is a critical issue. We like to know that we've made something and own it. Most consumers couldn't care less what's inside the PC, as long as it does what they want it to do.

Very true, enthusiasts make up a small percentage of consumer sales which make up only a small percent of Intel's bottom line. If anything Intel doesn't care as much about enthusiast sales. AMD would definitely target enthusiasts if they could, but they don't have anything that can compete at the $250+ level. Unless there is a miracle breakthrough, AMD is content with selling primarily APUs, servers and GPUs.

AMD is being squeezed from all sides. Intel from the high end on CPU and ARM from the low end. And Nvidia from the high end on GPU and Intel on the low end. The one area that AMD is the clear leader is heterogeneous computing. If AMD can make it work this is their one saving grace.

That isn't to say that AMD can't eventually become a leader in any other area, it's just going to be a long and arduous road.