AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

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Reynod

Reynod

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Mar 26, 2007
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We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...
 
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JS's comment
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I'm basing my info purely on what you've posted. This goes all the way back to the BD speculation thread. You've spread lots of BD hate even before it was released, about everything you've posted was "don't buy AMD, buy Intel instead". I actually can't remember you saying anything positive in relation to AMD during this entire time, even when they did do some things right.

Case in point, that whole line about AMD being successful in the light power-saving mobile sector. A place that they actually fit in perfectly, Sabine (mobile Llano) is just an under clocked Phenom II without L3 but more L2 and a AMD budget GPU bolted onto it. That combination has proven to be been made of win. It's received positive reviews from several sites, and great reviews from notebook specific sites. The only place I know of that gave it a bad review was Anandtech, and they were trying to sell you SB within the first few paragraphs on the first page. Their review went something like this, "We're here to review Llano APU, but we really wish we had a SB, the APU seems to be kinda ok, but we like the SB more and who cares about graphics anyway".

The defining trait of someone who's become personally attached to a brand, logo or image is that they refuse to recognize the good points of the competition / opposing brand / logo / image.

SB being a good design and Intel having the best engineers in the world doesn't diminish the accomplishments of AMD and their engineers.

Anyhow, lets all agree to stop insulting each other. We're all intelligent enough to analyze the information presented and come up with our own conclusions. Don't want the thread to devolved into haters fighting each other.
 
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For the topic at hand.

I honestly don't know how trinity will perform. Initial information shows that the GPU is better then Sabine (I'm looking only at mobile and low end desktop APU here). Still going to be limited by memory bandwidth.

CPU is based on initial PD. They may or may not of fixed the cache issues. If they fixed them then we have an excellent CPU, if they didn't then it'll have serious performance issues. My prediction is that it'll be somewhere in-between, latencies might be better but I doubt they've progressed enough to make this work.
 
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After i saw the Radeon HD 7770(Heck the 7750 isn't to bad but its a tad slower then the 6770 while costing the same) and BD and how they priced it i'm real disappointed in Amd, Their asking to much money and basing prices on best performance instead of overall performance.



To me their is only 1 major product Amd is producing and that's Llano and i'm probably just going to get a A8 for a Laptop since i want to play games(on the go) but i'm happy with medium settings.


Besides that i'm pretty sure Nvidia's new cards will smoke Amd's on price and even overall performance! But i do think it will take more power and chad asked someone(don't remember who) why he thought that and i can tell you why i think Nvidia's cards will use more power and that's because its supposed to be bigger in size.
I was not so good at making predictions for BD but that's because i was being blinded by marketing this time its not happen again! Or at least for now :kaola:

660 will probably equal the 7970 this time around but for a much lower price i mean think about it the 7970 is only 20% faster then the 580 and do you guys really think Nvidia can only improve their design 20%!

I'm also pretty sure Piledriver will only be around 10-15% faster per core over the BD and that's from better clock speeds and maybe 5% better IPC.

I'm also pretty sure Trinity will be a replacement and that's pretty much it for Llano on the cpu side of things i'm expecting 5-10% more performance per core and around 10% less performance on multithreading programs such as Handbrake why because of BD lower scaling vs stars. I'm strictly talking about the laptop market and not the desktop market even though its probably going to look the same.

And like i said before the way Amd is pricing their newer products i'm guessing Trinity will be over priced as well.
 
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you asked about how I came to my predictions and when I answered you became silent lol
Click to expand...
:lol: I must have gone silent because I had something to fear, or I skipped over your post as I was skimming through the thread and didn't see it.

However, after BD, I don't follow as closely as I did before BD, a lot of stuff related to AMD.

I think it is safe to say that Trinity's performance improvements won't be any higher than anything claimed on recent AMD slides, which it appears you are claiming.

Trinity should be a better product than Llano, especially in the GPU stakes, but it is far from clear what level of improvements we will see in the CPU stakes as they transition from the Stars architecture to a BD architecture lacking L3, but with higher clocks.

 
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After i saw the Radeon HD 7770(Heck the 7750 isn't to bad but its a tad slower then the 6770 while costing the same) and BD and how they priced it i'm real disappointed in Amd, Their asking to much money and basing prices on best performance instead of overall performance.



To me their is only 1 major product Amd is producing and that's Llano and i'm probably just going to get a A8 for a Laptop since i want to play games(on the go) but i'm happy with medium settings.


Besides that i'm pretty sure Nvidia's new cards will smoke Amd's on price and even overall performance! But i do think it will take more power and chad asked someone(don't remember who) why he thought that and i can tell you why i think Nvidia's cards will use more power and that's because its supposed to be bigger in size.
I was not so good at making predictions for BD but that's because i was being blinded by marketing this time its not happen again! Or at least for now :kaola:

660 will probably equal the 7970 this time around but for a much lower price i mean think about it the 7970 is only 20% faster then the 580 and do you guys really think Nvidia can only improve their design 20%!

I'm also pretty sure Piledriver will only be around 10-15% faster per core over the BD and that's from better clock speeds and maybe 5% better IPC.

I'm also pretty sure Trinity will be a replacement and that's pretty much it for Llano on the cpu side of things i'm expecting 5-10% more performance per core and around 10% less performance on multithreading programs such as Handbrake why because of BD lower scaling vs stars. I'm strictly talking about the laptop market and not the desktop market even though its probably going to look the same.

And like i said before the way Amd is pricing their newer products i'm guessing Trinity will be over priced as well.
Click to expand...
you are being blinded by marketing again...
 
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:lol: I must have gone silent because I had something to fear, or I skipped over your post as I was skimming through the thread and didn't see it.

However, after BD, I don't follow as closely as I did before BD, a lot of stuff related to AMD.

I think it is safe to say that Trinity's performance improvements won't be any higher than anything claimed on recent AMD slides, which it appears you are claiming.

Trinity should be a better product than Llano, especially in the GPU stakes, but it is far from clear what level of improvements we will see in the CPU stakes as they transition from the Stars architecture to a BD architecture lacking L3, but with higher clocks.
Click to expand...


The way I reckon either AMD delivers or they will die a rather quick death their claim was minimum 20+cpu
 
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I'm basing my info purely on what you've posted. This goes all the way back to the BD speculation thread. You've spread lots of BD hate even before it was released, about everything you've posted was "don't buy AMD, buy Intel instead". I actually can't remember you saying anything positive in relation to AMD during this entire time, even when they did do some things right.

Case in point, that whole line about AMD being successful in the light power-saving mobile sector. A place that they actually fit in perfectly, Sabine (mobile Llano) is just an under clocked Phenom II without L3 but more L2 and a AMD budget GPU bolted onto it. That combination has proven to be been made of win. It's received positive reviews from several sites, and great reviews from notebook specific sites. The only place I know of that gave it a bad review was Anandtech, and they were trying to sell you SB within the first few paragraphs on the first page. Their review went something like this, "We're here to review Llano APU, but we really wish we had a SB, the APU seems to be kinda ok, but we like the SB more and who cares about graphics anyway".

The defining trait of someone who's become personally attached to a brand, logo or image is that they refuse to recognize the good points of the competition / opposing brand / logo / image.

SB being a good design and Intel having the best engineers in the world doesn't diminish the accomplishments of AMD and their engineers.

Anyhow, lets all agree to stop insulting each other. We're all intelligent enough to analyze the information presented and come up with our own conclusions. Don't want the thread to devolved into haters fighting each other.
Click to expand...

I never insulted anyone. You called me a fanboi. And from what I know, a fanboi would never buy anything but the product of the company they are a fanboi of, much like BM who has not bought a single personal Intel machine in who knows how long. And as I said, I buy AMD. I just tend to see logic.

I will asmit to being a Corsair fanboi. Have their case, RAM and PSU in most of my builds. Also Asus. But then again neitehr companies have let me down and thats why I continue to buy their products.

And most of my BD was based on the little info we got from third parties and the info we got from AMD themselves about the arch. Sad thing is I was right. I didn't get blinded by AMDs marketing for BD, which is one thing a lot of people tend to do on both sides.

Still I am afraid for Trinity in the CPU space. Having a powerful IGP does not make up for parts that the IGP cannot do.

And again as I said many a times, we shall see when it comes out. We will of course get "leaked" info before release, most will be fake but some will be true just like was with BD.
 
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That is true for Pile driver but not Trinity as it replaces lano which also does not have L3 unless I am missing something.
Click to expand...

BD is having massive cache latency issues / hit rates. L3 cache can act as a safety net for really bad caching. If they remove the L3 without fixing the underlying cacheing issues / hit rates then performance will take another hit. Llano is based on the K10.5 Stars architecture, each core has a dedicated 1MB of L2 Cache and it seems to functional much better as a whole then the BD uArch.

Trinity could be faster by just cranking up the clock, but as we say with P4 days that strategy doesn't work for very long. They really need to focus on fixing the front end components and making 512KB ~ 1MB of dedicated L2 cache to each core and only sharing the L3 cache. This would result in immediate measurable performance benefits. Sharing a large L2 cache has proven to not be that great an idea.
 
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BD is having massive cache latency issues / hit rates. L3 cache can act as a safety net for really bad caching. If they remove the L3 without fixing the underlying cacheing issues / hit rates then performance will take another hit. Llano is based on the K10.5 Stars architecture, each core has a dedicated 1MB of L2 Cache and it seems to functional much better as a whole then the BD uArch.

Trinity could be faster by just cranking up the clock, but as we say with P4 days that strategy doesn't work for very long. They really need to focus on fixing the front end components and making 512KB ~ 1MB of dedicated L2 cache to each core and only sharing the L3 cache. This would result in immediate measurable performance benefits. Sharing a large L2 cache has proven to not be that great an idea.
Click to expand...

Now that all makes perfect sense for the highend patform but if they are planning on offloading a lot of work to the gpu on Trinity does it matter
p4 don't remind me lol what junk it was always bogged down
 
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The only way I see that 20+ for CPU is due to higher clocks and turbo. Not IPC. Its the only reason why the top end Llano is 3GHz while the top end Trinity will be 3.8GHz.
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I think it will be a combination of ipc and clock
As Paladin said a rearrange of the front end of BD and a good lift in speed which makes sense
they claim a 35 watt will be equal to lano 65 watt which is a big lift what ever that means
When AMD said it would be better than the expected 20 50 they previously claimed they had to have found a fix for BD
and are implementing it in PD. which also could explain the date being pushed back

 
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Now that all makes perfect sense for the highend patform but if they are planning on offloading a lot of work to the gpu on Trinity does it matter
p4 don't remind me lol what junk it was always bogged down
Click to expand...


Its not up to amd for this to happen they can make the hardware but they can't force software to change or expect it to change so quick its going to take time.
 
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