AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[nforce4max]

a true gamer dose not game on a 'laptop' anyways.....

So what exactly am I supposed to do after work when I get back to my hotel room in Seoul, Tokyo or heaven forbid Fort Belvoir?

Sit there and lament on how because I'm a true gamer I could not possible play a few games on the laptop sitting in front of me?

Or should I quit my rather nice paying job and cease all vertical career movement so that I can stay in my moms basement and be a "real gamer"?

Face the facts folks, there is a very real market segment of people like me who grew up with video games but now have real lives and professions. I know this because my office is packed with them, there are five other twenty-thirty-somethings who are in the exact same situation I am. All trinity needs to do is improve on the performance levels of the Llano APU's, Intel has nothing remotely competitive in this market segment. Intel is still years behind ATI / NVidia in graphics development, their closing the gap but there are some things that just take time.

I agree, some of us that are still in college and others that are working where things are pretty much off the grid that want to do a little gaming there is no choice. There needs to be some changes to what it means to be a gamer and the elitists jerks need to step aside as their turn is over. Most gamers are casual to begin with and not some no lifer jerks.

As for working be very thankful that you get to travel as well 😉

 

[esrever]

the lower transistor density and slightly bigger chip is probably to increase yeilds.

 

[viridiancrystal]

The fact that my FX-8120's voltage supposedly goes up to 1.55v under max turbo blows my mind. I could undervolt the chip to 1.1-1.2v with little problems probably.

Welp, I was wrong.

Have it at 1.075V stable.

I'm really surprised at how much chips can vary. Some probably have trouble being stable at the stock voltages, while some (Like mine) are much better off.

I see the IGP = to hd7770 by 2014
I see laptops playing the latest games well.

I Love seeing AMD and Intel push intergrated graphics, It means all our new games will look better 😀

 

[esrever]

by the time kaveri comes out the integrated gpu would be more powerful than the consoles.

 

[king smp]

the only problem is that good performing IGPs will cause the discrete card to go up in price
no longer will Joe Computer User be buying the low end cards like the 6670 when the IGPs can do everything he needs it to do
Nvidia and AMD volume will drop and then they will be raising prices (even more) on the mid to upper cards
I just saw an article on Toms where I think Intel was declaring the discrete card to be dead and that is a very niche market now

 

[jdwii]

by the time kaveri comes out the integrated gpu would be more powerful than the consoles.

i'm pretty sure its already their the Xbox 360/PS3 only does 720P and the 360 is 1280/720! On top of that the games are barley equivalent to medium on the PC Plus 90% of them are ran on just 30FPS. So with that i say a 6670 is way better then the 360/PS3 graphics especially if you count how the games or optimized to run good on those consoles where the PC has less optimized games. Also i would say a A8 3850 is probably equal or better then the Consoles. Lets not even talk about the wii which competes with the Xbox 1 in terms of graphics that system isn't really about that anyways.

 

[jdwii]

the only problem is that good performing IGPs will cause the discrete card to go up in price
no longer will Joe Computer User be buying the low end cards like the 6670 when the IGPs can do everything he needs it to do
Nvidia and AMD volume will drop and then they will be raising prices (even more) on the mid to upper cards
I just saw an article on Toms where I think Intel was declaring the discrete card to be dead and that is a very niche market now

I'll say its not that big of a deal and i doubt it will hurt the 125$+ market anyways. And lets face it Nvidia's been week on that low-end market anyways.

 

[viridiancrystal]

the only problem is that good performing IGPs will cause the discrete card to go up in price
no longer will Joe Computer User be buying the low end cards like the 6670 when the IGPs can do everything he needs it to do
Nvidia and AMD volume will drop and then they will be raising prices (even more) on the mid to upper cards
I just saw an article on Toms where I think Intel was declaring the discrete card to be dead and that is a very niche market now

not really any more niche than ever. The demand on high end cards will not change, if anything it might go up.

I have a theory:
Improving the market for light gaming on laptops, opens the market for light gamers. Some of these gamers will being to demand more performance to play games at higher settings/resolutions. This will lead them to buy high end cpus/gpus from AMD, thus increasing $.

But seriously, people that were not buying high-end cards before will still be not buying high-end cards. Those that were buying high-end cards will still need high-end discrete cards. The demand hasn't changed, so unless supply is always as limited as Nvidia's cards are now, the price wont become worse.

 

[esrever]

i'm pretty sure its already their the Xbox 360/PS3 only does 720P and the 360 is 1280/720! On top of that the games are barley equivalent to medium on the PC Plus 90% of them are ran on just 30FPS. So with that i say a 6670 is way better then the 360/PS3 graphics especially if you count how the games or optimized to run good on those consoles where the PC has less optimized games. Also i would say a A8 3850 is probably equal or better then the Consoles. Lets not even talk about the wii which competes with the Xbox 1 in terms of graphics that system isn't really about that anyways.

I meant to say next gen consoles. Llano is more powerful than the current consoles.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, OK
As IGPs become more powerful, therell have to be a gap between them and discrete.
We are seeing the death of the entry level as we knew it discrete cards, and now low end will be middle low end, as we know it.

If more people are exposed to gaming, your potential user base goes up.
Theres been talk of this harming the PC gaming market, as far as discrete goes, but I have a different theory, that consoles will suffer, as more people are exposed to decent gaming on their rigs, be it mobile or DT.
So, expanding your base wont lower discrete sales overall, but it does change gaming as we knew it

 

[truegenius]

as we discused earlier
some console (i forgot) will use amd apu (i forgot)

is it mean that new games will be more optimized for amd cpu and amd gpu?

if so then it looks like a tit for tat ( for intel compiler)

 

[jimmysmitty]

as we discused earlier
some console (i forgot) will use amd apu (i forgot)

is it mean that new games will be more optimized for amd cpu and amd gpu?

if so then it looks like a tit for tat ( for intel compiler)

Thats a rumor I have heard but it makes me wonder why. A APU is all fine and dandy but it will still be limited until there is stacked RAM for the GPU as system RAM is still way too slow compared to GDDR5, and by the time DDR 4 is out (which will near GDDR5 speeds) they might move to a new memory or GDDR6.

Still have to wait for official specs but I honestly don't see why none of them have looked to Intel. Possibly cost but in terms of performance and power, they still hold a better CPU than AMD. I think they should still have a custom designed GPU and not a IGP via a APU but thats just me.

The last intel part was the celeron/pentium III in the original XBOX.

Dreamcast IBM/PowerVR
XBOX Nvidia/Intel
PS2.......some random stuff sony created.

PS3 IBM/Nvidia
XBOX 360 AMD/IBM

The Emotion Engine in the PS2.

Still IBM has had a lot of business but I guess they wont for the next gen. Their Cell approch (for PS3) is ok but not overly efficient. From a paper standpoint, Cell is a lot like Bulldozer, as in Cell should do to the 360s PowerPC 3 core what Bulldozer should do to the 2500K. But the problem again is that the Cell has 1 strong core and 7 much weaker cores while the 360s PowerPC CPU is three strong cores. Thats why a PS3 overall is not much better, if not better at all, than the 360 for most games.

Same goes to BD. It has that smaller weaker core part that while it allows for better performance, its not enough to overcome current Intel offerings.

Maybe PD will do better with the higher clock speeds.

 

[earl45]

Yes, well said.

+1

 

[noob2222]

Thats a rumor I have heard but it makes me wonder why. A APU is all fine and dandy but it will still be limited until there is stacked RAM for the GPU as system RAM is still way too slow compared to GDDR5, and by the time DDR 4 is out (which will near GDDR5 speeds) they might move to a new memory or GDDR6.

Still have to wait for official specs but I honestly don't see why none of them have looked to Intel. Possibly cost but in terms of performance and power, they still hold a better CPU than AMD. I think they should still have a custom designed GPU and not a IGP via a APU but thats just me.

Probably because Intel would play the same card they gave Nvidia. Buy our cpu with motherboard chipset or no deal. Thats enough to make anyone walk away from dealing with them on any long term contract.

I remember AMD having some sort of open market cpu chip. Can't find the article but it was a APU with a blank die section for whoever needed an extra on-die design. Would be perfect for console design implementations.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Probably because Intel would play the same card they gave Nvidia. Buy our cpu with motherboard chipset or no deal. Thats enough to make anyone walk away from dealing with them on any long term contract.

I remember AMD having some sort of open market cpu chip. Can't find the article but it was a APU with a blank die section for whoever needed an extra on-die design. Would be perfect for console design implementations.

So AMD would prefer to just sell the APU only? That much I doubt. I would rather assume that as a business AMD would instead look to sell the whole shabang to them, not just one part. CPU, chipset and GPU.

Possibly design a system just for MS or Sony, much like how the Xenon (R500) was designed just for the 360.

Still its all just rumor until the full official specs are revieled.

 

[triny]

i actually agree to a certain extent
I think that AMD has a decent strategy right thinking long term
they need to make more a brand presence to the general consumer though
if they had a cool commercial with a Bulldozer running over intel computers and placed during sporting
events that would work
I will repeat myself
consumers dont understand IPC
they understand more cores and higher frequencies though
Intel proved that with the Pentium 4 with the higher frequency push
AMD back in Oct was about 5 a share
now last I looked it was around $9
and I think it will climb by end of the year

your spot on as usual , the average person knows one thing best ,price,#cores,freq.
Amd's advertising presence is abysmal .

 

[triny]

So AMD would prefer to just sell the APU only? revieled.

They will sell and that is the main thing,but certainly they will have a server presence and they say Vishera by years end,by then Trinity will have sold
and I read that they may have Steamroller apu by sept. and excavator apu full HSA by 2013 Q2 .
Now that's following their new Tick Tock schedule.

As far as I can tell I see AMD shares hitting 12$ to15$ by Q4 2012 by Q4 2013 they may well be back to 25$ or more.
They wiil own low and medium PC format as well as make inroads into high end with APU desk top models .
pricing today is king Fancy like my Intel 2500K is out priced by the APU that price ratio is the difference that the Billions of people on this planet will see.
People from China ,India ,Russia,etc...sees price,cores,Freq. The fanatics with money to blow may buy Intel and businesses will probably stay Intel.
But the burgeoning ,yearning billions of people of India, China know value not fancy.The 40 million Americans on food stamps now know value too.
all the consoles will most likely be APU .
Beyond 2014 Intel may have solutions as good but they can't be expected to snap their fingers and produce as good igp until then.
By Haswell 2014 long after release. The Apu is a moving target until at least 2014.Price wise Intel has to be competitive.
Not even Intel can hold back evolution,the HSA revolution will continue and will those who don't swim behind in it's wake.

 

[jdwii]

They will sell and that is the main thing,but certainly they will have a server presence and they say Vishera by years end,by then Trinity will have sold
and I read that they may have Steamroller apu by sept. and excavator apu full HSA by 2013 Q2 .
Now that's following their new Tick Tock schedule.

As far as I can tell I see AMD shares hitting 12$ to15$ by Q4 2012 by Q4 2013 they may well be back to 25$ or more.
They wiil own low and medium PC format as well as make inroads into high end with APU desk top models .
pricing today is king Fancy like my Intel 2500K is out priced by the APU that price ratio is the difference that the Billions of people on this planet will see.
People from China ,India ,Russia,etc...sees price,cores,Freq. The fanatics with money to blow may buy Intel and businesses will probably stay Intel.
But the burgeoning ,yearning billions of people of India, China know value not fancy.The 40 million Americans on food stamps now know value too.
all the consoles will most likely be APU .
Beyond 2014 Intel may have solutions as good but they can't be expected to snap their fingers and produce as good igp until then.
By Haswell 2014 long after release. The Apu is a moving target until at least 2014.Price wise Intel has to be competitive.

I don't think so! But then again were guessing, i would say 12$ is practical but 25$ No way i wish though that would be great news it means Amd would have more money for research and can even pay off their debt.

Even though i'm impressed they own 43% of the desktop market and their APU's are going to be more competitive in my eyes to Ivy but we will have to wait until trinity releases. I hope PD is enough to give them a boost in the server market, how much i hate saying this i'm happy their making cloud a priory since this is most likely the future. And as always as long as Amd has competitive pricing on PD and not overcharge them by pricing them at the best performance it has to offer instead of overall performance i will buy the best one they make if its supported in the AM3+ board and it better or i will be jumping to Intel.

 

[Reynod]

So AMD would prefer to just sell the APU only? That much I doubt. I would rather assume that as a business AMD would instead look to sell the whole shabang to them, not just one part. CPU, chipset and GPU.

Possibly design a system just for MS or Sony, much like how the Xenon (R500) was designed just for the 360.

Still its all just rumor until the full official specs are revieled.

I agree AMD and INTEL both want to bundle their own chipset with the mobo ... expecially for APU's.

For AMD squeezing NVidia like that must be some recompense for the way NVidia have worked to compete in the discrete graphics market and do so well ... despite yeild issues and heat over the last two ticks ... they still produce a more refined graphics product on average ... drivers / support / etc.

It still leaves NVidia without an X86 license and with APU's touted take a bigger slice of the market as users want portability ... thats a tough area to be in at the moment.

I find it hard as an AMD fan to dislike NVidia ... they keep producing the goods.

I find it much easier to dislike Intel ... though my i7 2600 makes it hard to dislike them ... hard indeed.

Oh the pain ... the pain of it all jimmy !!!

Hopefully trinity won't be one great flash and then its over ... < two little puzzles there for the older folk>

 

[Reynod]

I don't think so! But then again were guessing, i would say 12$ is practical but 25$ No way i wish though that would be great news it means Amd would have more money for research and can even pay off their debt.

Even though i'm impressed they own 43% of the desktop market and their APU's are going to be more competitive in my eyes to Ivy but we will have to wait until trinity releases. I hope PD is enough to give them a boost in the server market, how much i hate saying this i'm happy their making cloud a priory since this is most likely the future. And as always as long as Amd has competitive pricing on PD and not overcharge them by pricing them at the best performance it has to offer instead of overall performance i will buy the best one they make if its supported in the AM3+ board and it better or i will be jumping to Intel.

As someone who has folled AMD shares right down the rabbithole with the GFC and back my preduction is a slight reduction over the next two weeks and then a slow climb ... irrespective of how good Trinity is.

As AMD gains marketshare in the low power end of the market Intel will respond ... and have already.

Just look at how well the IVB CPU's overclock while undervolted?

C'mon ... it doesn't take a genious to see where Intel is really pushing IVB ... the end of the market that is growing fastest.

AMD still has a graphics advantage but I wonder just how miserly (and powerful) IVB will be in that market segment with all of the low power state logic activated, a lower VCore, and a lower clock.

Even a Core2Due runnng at 1.6 or so is plenty enough CPU power.

AWhile I see some more growth for AMD in that market degment they are still bailing themselves out of the ATI fiasco, and have some major issues with BD.

I think they might make another $1.50 a share in the next 12 months but behnd that ... I don't think so.

AMD woke up Intel by sticking a firecracker up their skirt with the A64 and Intel have been awake 24/7 since ... with red eyes and a bit wallet ... and stick.

Intel want the lion's share of every market segment.

Unfortunately they listened to an idiot regarding Atom ... but otherwise their track record since Core2 has been exemplary.

Intel is like the USS Enterprise ... doesn't stop often for refueling.

 

[triny]

I don't think so! But then again were guessing, i would say 12$ is practical but 25$ No way i wish though that would be great news it means Amd would have more money for research and can even pay off their debt.

Even though i'm impressed they own 43% of the desktop market and their APU's are going to be more competitive in my eyes to Ivy but we will have to wait until trinity releases. I hope PD is enough to give them a boost in the server market, how much i hate saying this i'm happy their making cloud a priory since this is most likely the future. And as always as long as Amd has competitive pricing on PD and not overcharge them by pricing them at the best performance it has to offer instead of overall performance i will buy the best one they make if its supported in the AM3+ board and it better or i will be jumping to Intel.

I was quoting info that you have to pay to get,that hinges on AMD following their tick tock schedule being able sell improved models each year.and both the Chinese and Indian markets .

 

[triny]

As someone who has folled AMD shares right down the rabbithole with the GFC and back my preduction is a slight reduction over the next two weeks and then a slow climb ... irrespective of how good Trinity is.

As AMD gains marketshare in the low power end of the market Intel will respond ... and have already.

Just look at how well the IVB CPU's overclock while undervolted?

C'mon ... it doesn't take a genious to see where Intel is really pushing IVB ... the end of the market that is growing fastest.

AMD still has a graphics advantage but I wonder just how miserly (and powerful) IVB will be in that market segment with all of the low power state logic activated, a lower VCore, and a lower clock.

Even a Core2Due runnng at 1.6 or so is plenty enough CPU power.

AWhile I see some more growth for AMD in that market degment they are still bailing themselves out of the ATI fiasco, and have some major issues with BD.

I think they might make another $1.50 a share in the next 12 months but behnd that ... I don't think so.

AMD woke up Intel by sticking a firecracker up their skirt with the A64 and Intel have been awake 24/7 since ... with red eyes and a bit wallet ... and stick.

Intel want the lion's share of every market segment.

Unfortunately they listened to an idiot regarding Atom ... but otherwise their track record since Core2 has been exemplary.

Intel is like the USS Enterprise ... doesn't stop often for refueling.

In low end and medium markets it all hinges on price and still being able to deliver HD graphics at a low price today. That means IGP
especially amd igp as it is able to couple igp to gpu .
24/7 by the end of 2014 perhaps Intel will have a solution . the apu is a moving target can't be surpassed ,Intel won't beat 6550d with IB
even Haswell won't beat trinity by Kaveri full HSA will dawn even Intel's best chips are not as fast as a gpu.
I see AMD gaining big in markets they never were in before those gains are off Intel's back on another front ARM A15 chips beat Intel.
Piledtiver ,steamroller ,excavator will be formidable apu with descrete level igp

 

[-Fran-]

Well, the key to Trinity's success is not only the graphics prowess it has right off the bat, it's the software around the graphics power that needs to be shown (this is leaving the CPU aside).

My point is: when next console gen arrives (if they do) they'll set up the bar a little higher and we'll see if Trinity has the power to survive in the long run as a viable portable-gaming platform. Also, Flash and HTML5 are getting very good HW acceleration nowadays and games/apps WILL start using it more. That's also related to decoding capabilities and such, inside a web browser.

I'm really curious about the software layer they announced to make a real "fusion" with the additional layer they want to promote. I think the long term success will be that important piece; even more than the hardware itself.

Cheers!

 

[triny]

the only problem is that good performing IGPs will cause the discrete card to go up in price
no longer will Joe Computer User be buying the low end cards like the 6670 when the IGPs can do everything he needs it to do
Nvidia and AMD volume will drop and then they will be raising prices (even more) on the mid to upper cards
I just saw an article on Toms where I think Intel was declaring the discrete card to be dead and that is a very niche market now

I think that is true in one sense,but at least with AMD the igp is still leveraged should joe computer wish to add a gpu down the line.

 

[triny]

Well, the key to Trinity's success is not only the graphics prowess it has right off the bat, it's the software around the graphics power that needs to be shown (this is leaving the CPU aside).

My point is: when next console gen arrives (if they do) they'll set up the bar a little higher and we'll see if Trinity has the power to survive in the long run as a viable portable-gaming platform. Also, Flash and HTML5 are getting very good HW acceleration nowadays and games/apps WILL start using it more. That's also related to decoding capabilities and such, inside a web browser.

I'm really curious about the software layer they announced to make a real "fusion" with the additional layer they want to promote. I think the long term success will be that important piece; even more than the hardware itself.

Cheers!

Yeah, aps decoders,everything that enhances the visual experience is key.