Discussion AMD Ryzen MegaThread! FAQ and Resources

[gamerk316]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167279/computers/amd-sorry-there-will-be-no-official-ryzen-drivers-for-windows-7.html

Well i guess they tested Ryzen on 7 but they wont officially support Windows 7 i actually thought that would be a decent advantage. If anyone seen Jayztwocents video about trying to get Kaby-lake on W7 it wasn't well easy.

Windows 7 is eight years old.

Resource can be better spend elsewhere (i.e. optimizing the drivers for Windows 10).

In Driver land, there isn't a ton that's changed from Vista to Windows 10, especially for CPU drivers. I suspect this is more MSFT politely asking Intel/AMD to stop supporting 7 for its newest CPUs rather then any technical reason.

*still on Windows 7*

 

[Rookie_MIB]

Followup on the pricing leak, and it appears to be legit. Retailers get info on pricing before the hardware actually drops, so they can get stuff into their database in advance of availability. One of the online retailers had the stuff properly (improperly?) linked to the AM4 hardware platform. Searching for AM4 in their database pulled up links to the listed processors which listed the pricing and specs and sku names.

So, I'm glad I'm in the market for a new build soon. 8c/16t CPU for $350? Sure!

 

[Nope 1151]

Followup on the pricing leak, and it appears to be legit. Retailers get info on pricing before the hardware actually drops, so they can get stuff into their database in advance of availability. One of the online retailers had the stuff properly (improperly?) linked to the AM4 hardware platform. Searching for AM4 in their database pulled up links to the listed processors which listed the pricing and specs and sku names.

So, I'm glad I'm in the market for a new build soon. 8c/16t CPU for $350? Sure!

As many of us here would say, wait for benchmarks. If you've read the /r/amd thread, it feels as if they expect Ryzen to compete with Kaby lake on IPC alone.

Also, does anyone think that AMD is deliberately trying to force Intel into a price-war? I'm not to sure that it would work out well for them if Intel pulls an OEM stunt like last time.

 

[Rookie_MIB]

As many of us here would say, wait for benchmarks. If you've read the /r/amd thread, it feels as if they expect Ryzen to compete with Kaby lake on IPC alone.

Also, does anyone think that AMD is deliberately trying to force Intel into a price-war? I'm not to sure that it would work out well for them if Intel pulls an OEM stunt like last time.

Oh I know, I know the IPC will be lower than Kaby Lake, but it will certainly be faster than my Xeon X3470. I'll be waiting for reviews and perhaps for the 6c/12t Ryzen...

 

[illegaloperation]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167279/computers/amd-sorry-there-will-be-no-official-ryzen-drivers-for-windows-7.html

Well i guess they tested Ryzen on 7 but they wont officially support Windows 7 i actually thought that would be a decent advantage. If anyone seen Jayztwocents video about trying to get Kaby-lake on W7 it wasn't well easy.

Windows 7 is eight years old.

Resource can be better spend elsewhere (i.e. optimizing the drivers for Windows 10).

In Driver land, there isn't a ton that's changed from Vista to Windows 10, especially for CPU drivers. I suspect this is more MSFT politely asking Intel/AMD to stop supporting 7 for its newest CPUs rather then any technical reason.

*still on Windows 7*

What Microsoft is saying is that it won't spend any resources in supporting new processors on an eight years old OS.

If you do run an old OS on new processors, then fine, but if you do run into an issue, you are on your own and Microsoft doesn't want to hear about it.

 

[jdwii]

Spoiler

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167279/computers/amd-sorry-there-will-be-no-official-ryzen-drivers-for-windows-7.html

Well i guess they tested Ryzen on 7 but they wont officially support Windows 7 i actually thought that would be a decent advantage. If anyone seen Jayztwocents video about trying to get Kaby-lake on W7 it wasn't well easy.

Windows 7 is eight years old.

Resource can be better spend elsewhere (i.e. optimizing the drivers for Windows 10).

I know what you mean but it just kind of eliminates the difference i actually know people personally who would have gotten Ryzen over kabylake for that reason alone. Now right out of the gate Ryzen+Kaby lake has no native support for 7 and Kaby-lake is confirmed to work on 4K Netflix and 4K blu-ray support.

Its not a "major" market but its still important.

 

[sarinaide]

~5% off Broadwell E

 

[jdwii]

Followup on the pricing leak, and it appears to be legit. Retailers get info on pricing before the hardware actually drops, so they can get stuff into their database in advance of availability. One of the online retailers had the stuff properly (improperly?) linked to the AM4 hardware platform. Searching for AM4 in their database pulled up links to the listed processors which listed the pricing and specs and sku names.

So, I'm glad I'm in the market for a new build soon. 8c/16t CPU for $350? Sure!

I expect sandy/Ivy-haswell performance all around that is why i always thought an 8 core Ryzen part would be available for 380$ or so as that was the price of Intel's 6 core part for a long time. However other rumors state their 4 core will be as low as some Pentiums something i definitely did not think would happen i was thinking more around 150-180$.

Some areas i expect it to perform like haswell in IPC others as low as sandy overall probably between the two that is based off of Amd ryzen design itself which in some areas has me wondering if ILP will be a slight issue compared to Intel's latest offerings one can even see that with their choice in going with 4ALU+2AGU.

Low ILP means higher SMT gains basically which is what i expect. All the test for example that Amd showed are highly parallel in nature, they didn't show one single benchmark analyzing single core performance.

As a side note we should make a Naples thread as well as there is a lot to talk about when it comes to this design for servers in some areas its already coming out with noncompetitive results compared to Intel's latest offerings.

 

[illegaloperation]

Spoiler

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167279/computers/amd-sorry-there-will-be-no-official-ryzen-drivers-for-windows-7.html

Well i guess they tested Ryzen on 7 but they wont officially support Windows 7 i actually thought that would be a decent advantage. If anyone seen Jayztwocents video about trying to get Kaby-lake on W7 it wasn't well easy.

Windows 7 is eight years old.

Resource can be better spend elsewhere (i.e. optimizing the drivers for Windows 10).

I know what you mean but it just kind of eliminates the difference i actually know people personally who would have gotten Ryzen over kabylake for that reason alone. Now right out of the gate Ryzen+Kaby lake has no native support for 7 and Kaby-lake is confirmed to work on 4K Netflix and 4K blu-ray support.

Its not a "major" market but its still important.

Who would buy Zen or Kaby Lake and runs Windows 7 on it anyway?

The majority of users get Windows 10 when buying new PCs.

The custom PCs crowd buys their copies of Windows 10 along with their PCs.

Some business users who are running Windows 7 and still "evaluating" Windows 10 can buy Skylake or Kaveri.

Likewise people who have incompatible software/hardware can buy Skylake or Kaveri.

 

[sarinaide]

Followup on the pricing leak, and it appears to be legit. Retailers get info on pricing before the hardware actually drops, so they can get stuff into their database in advance of availability. One of the online retailers had the stuff properly (improperly?) linked to the AM4 hardware platform. Searching for AM4 in their database pulled up links to the listed processors which listed the pricing and specs and sku names.

So, I'm glad I'm in the market for a new build soon. 8c/16t CPU for $350? Sure!

I expect sandy/Ivy-haswell performance all around that is why i always thought an 8 core Ryzen part would be available for 380$ or so as that was the price of Intel's 6 core part for a long time. However other rumors state their 4 core will be as low as some Pentiums something i definitely did not think would happen i was thinking more around 150-180$.

Some areas i expect it to perform like haswell in IPC others as low as sandy overall probably between the two that is based off of Amd ryzen design itself which in some areas has me wondering if ILP will be a slight issue compared to Intel's latest offerings one can even see that with their choice in going with 4ALU+2AGU.

Low ILP means higher SMT gains basically which is what i expect. All the test for example that Amd showed are highly parallel in nature, they didn't show one single benchmark analyzing single core performance.

As a side note we should make a Naples thread as well as there is a lot to talk about when it comes to this design for servers in some areas its already coming out with noncompetitive results compared to Intel's latest offerings.

Remember the CB1188 score, that was a first family ES sample that was sold to public in the ROC at 2.8Ghz, at 3.3Ghz it equates to north of 1400 which compared to the same clocked 5960X only scores 1350. The guestimates for a ST performance at 3.3Ghz was somewhere between 140-145 but apparently it is 5% roughly slower than Broadwell E.

Prices in China on 5960X's plummeted overnight, but it is still far more expensive than Ryzen and in almost all situations a Ryzen 1800 will outrun a 5960X. AMD are hiding IPC to try surprise Intel, but leaks have come out and Intel have confirmed the threat by inference. Again you need a 4.4Ghz Sandy 2600K just to keep up, you need a 4.4Ghz Sandy just to keep up with Broadwell. Single Thread is very strong, AMD are also doing it on a far more limited IMC. If there are differences it is likely IMC related.

 

[illegaloperation]

Does anyone know why AMD is waiting until H2 2017 to release Raven Ridge?

That basically means no Zen-based laptops until H2 2017.

 

[jdwii]

As said before Sarinaide i hope so i hope they are hiding IPC cause its amazing, believe me when i say it i'll be first to say i was wrong after i look at several comparisons. I'd love to jump back to Amd again. If IPC reaches sandy-ivy at times with matching haswell sometimes(remember IPC isn't the same among every program) i will still call Ryzen a great design as its a brand new architecture and a massive jump from Excavator.

I'll personally switch if it reaches Haswell or broadwell in IPC. I'd basically be getting twice the computing power since i'd have double the amount of cores.

 

[sarinaide]

As said before Sarinaide i hope so i hope they are hiding IPC cause its amazing, believe me when i say it i'll be first to say i was wrong after i look at several comparisons. I'd love to jump back to Amd again. If IPC reaches sandy-ivy at times with matching haswell sometimes(remember IPC isn't the same among every program) i will still call Ryzen a great design as its a brand new architecture and a massive jump from Excavator.

I'll personally switch if it reaches Haswell or broadwell in IPC. I'd basically be getting twice the computing power since i'd have double the amount of cores.

you are right IPC isn't the same and CPC's leaked results showed a vast range of IPC dependent applications at a time where the ES samples were still unstable yet the results were as intended to be better than the 5960X. I just rough estimate a 152/1527 CB score at 3.6Ghz as a rough for fun estimation, kind of fits the ~5% to Broadwell E

 

[juanrga]

Does anyone know why AMD is waiting until H2 2017 to release Raven Ridge?

That basically means no Zen-based laptops until H2 2017.

Because servers is their main priority. And Raven Ridge needs a different die.

 

[-Fran-]

Placeholder for tracking!

Also, shouldn't this thread be created after the actual launch?

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

As said before Sarinaide i hope so i hope they are hiding IPC cause its amazing, believe me when i say it i'll be first to say i was wrong after i look at several comparisons. I'd love to jump back to Amd again. If IPC reaches sandy-ivy at times with matching haswell sometimes(remember IPC isn't the same among every program) i will still call Ryzen a great design as its a brand new architecture and a massive jump from Excavator.

I'll personally switch if it reaches Haswell or broadwell in IPC. I'd basically be getting twice the computing power since i'd have double the amount of cores.

you are right IPC isn't the same and CPC's leaked results showed a vast range of IPC dependent applications at a time where the ES samples were still unstable yet the results were as intended to be better than the 5960X. I just rough estimate a 152/1527 CB score at 3.6Ghz as a rough for fun estimation, kind of fits the ~5% to Broadwell E

When asked if final chip will keep with Broadwell-E, CPC response was: "yes in MT workloads".

They specifying MT in their response makes me believe that Broadwell-E will be faster on ST.

A question: do you have new info about the SMT/uop bug? Is the bug completely fixed?

 

[sarinaide]

As said before Sarinaide i hope so i hope they are hiding IPC cause its amazing, believe me when i say it i'll be first to say i was wrong after i look at several comparisons. I'd love to jump back to Amd again. If IPC reaches sandy-ivy at times with matching haswell sometimes(remember IPC isn't the same among every program) i will still call Ryzen a great design as its a brand new architecture and a massive jump from Excavator.

I'll personally switch if it reaches Haswell or broadwell in IPC. I'd basically be getting twice the computing power since i'd have double the amount of cores.

you are right IPC isn't the same and CPC's leaked results showed a vast range of IPC dependent applications at a time where the ES samples were still unstable yet the results were as intended to be better than the 5960X. I just rough estimate a 152/1527 CB score at 3.6Ghz as a rough for fun estimation, kind of fits the ~5% to Broadwell E

When asked if final chip will keep with Broadwell-E, CPC response was: "yes in MT workloads".

They specifying MT in their response makes me believe that Broadwell-E will be faster on ST.

A question: do you have new info about the SMT/uop bug? Is the bug completely fixed?

Nothing new yet, only that the motherboards are not near ready outside of Asus and Asrock.

Still many bugs they are working through with updates but expect to be on time.

Falls in line with most estimations Ryzen sits in between Haswell and Broadwell on a performance level, in the majority of suites beating the 5960X at similar clocks vs Broadwell ~5% given some play I would say 5-10% which is very feasible. The IMC is quite limited on Ryzen but expect major updates to it by Zen+

 

[CyberDevil]

AMD has also stated that they are still using SMT which is AMD’s version of HyperThreading.

Intel's SMT implementation is called HyperThreading, while AMD's SMT implementation is called Thread Ripper.

 

[gamerk316]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3167279/computers/amd-sorry-there-will-be-no-official-ryzen-drivers-for-windows-7.html

Well i guess they tested Ryzen on 7 but they wont officially support Windows 7 i actually thought that would be a decent advantage. If anyone seen Jayztwocents video about trying to get Kaby-lake on W7 it wasn't well easy.

Windows 7 is eight years old.

Resource can be better spend elsewhere (i.e. optimizing the drivers for Windows 10).

In Driver land, there isn't a ton that's changed from Vista to Windows 10, especially for CPU drivers. I suspect this is more MSFT politely asking Intel/AMD to stop supporting 7 for its newest CPUs rather then any technical reason.

*still on Windows 7*

What Microsoft is saying is that it won't spend any resources in supporting new processors on an eight years old OS.

If you do run an old OS on new processors, then fine, but if you do run into an issue, you are on your own and Microsoft doesn't want to hear about it.

But it's not an OS issue; it's a driver issue. And AMD has working Windows 7 drivers, it's just choosing not to release them.

 

[TechyInAZ]

Placeholder for tracking!

Also, shouldn't this thread be created after the actual launch?

Cheers!

Technically yes. But there isn't really any need to do so.

 

[Onus]

Single-core performance will have to be truly dismal for me not to be all over this. My FX-8320 could be a slug in some ways, and my i3-6100 is a slug in others; I am cautiously optimistic that this will blow both of them out of the water.

 

[Jsimenhoff]

Single-core performance will have to be truly dismal for me not to be all over this. My FX-8320 could be a slug in some ways, and my i3-6100 is a slug in others; I am cautiously optimistic that this will blow both of them out of the water.

Holding the same cautious optimism. Would be nice to upgrade from Sandybridge to an easily overclockable mid tier Ryzen build. I often use Adobe Illustrator and Ableton Live, so those extra cores and threads would definitely be put to use.

 

[serfeldon]

Can't wait for release!

 

[Nope 1151]

Single-core performance will have to be truly dismal for me not to be all over this. My FX-8320 could be a slug in some ways, and my i3-6100 is a slug in others; I am cautiously optimistic that this will blow both of them out of the water.

There are some people like me, still rocking along a Core2Quad, so I guess maybe these people will upgrade.

Could someone explain how AMD would win a price war with Intel?

 

[jdwii]

Single-core performance will have to be truly dismal for me not to be all over this. My FX-8320 could be a slug in some ways, and my i3-6100 is a slug in others; I am cautiously optimistic that this will blow both of them out of the water.

There are some people like me, still rocking along a Core2Quad, so I guess maybe these people will upgrade.

Could someone explain how AMD would win a price war with Intel?

Win a price war is different from competing in a price war i highly doubt Intel is going to start selling processors for a way cheaper cost. Ryzen is actually smaller to produce then Intel kaby-lake meaning its cheaper to make a 4 core Ryzen processor then it is to make a 4 core kaby-lake processor. Intel also has to pay for their own fabrication company something Amd once again doesn't have to do. Intel has WAY more expensives then Amd does and they also branch out to more markets then Amd does.

Sometimes running a smaller company with less responsibility's can be a good thing.