News AMD Teases 5nm Ryzen 7000 ‘Raphael’ Zen 4 CPUs, Unveils Ryzen 7 5800X3D with 96MB of L3 Cache

VforV

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I find it so weird that only one Ryzen 3D CPU is launching and it's the "middle" tier 5800X3D... but if it really beats the 12900k in gaming I will really LMAO :ROFLMAO:

Zen4 at 5Ghz though should be crazy good!
 

shady28

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I guess they didn't fully solve the heat issues with 3D stack technology. I find it hard to believe the cache will completely overcome 5-10% lower clocks.

Also, a single SKU, seems like this may be more of a technology demonstrator and marketing move than a part meant for mass consumption. I'd bet these mostly fall into the 'unobtanium' category with both high demand and limited production volume. If you want one, best sign up on pre-order as soon as it hits.
 

PCWarrior

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So after all these headlines over 6 months ago about 3D Vcache AMD will launch just ONE cpu and that in 2-3 months from now. And that is not even the 12-core they demoed back then but a mid-tier octacore with lower clocks than its predecessor! Talking about too little too late. As for the games where they showed it winning against the 12900K, these happen (surprise surprise) to be amongst the games where the stock configuration of the 12900K (with the e-cores enabled) is lower than with the e-cores disabled. Disabling the e-cores (or assigning gaming to p-cores only which can be done in software) brings parity in these games. I suspected that something was off with this whole Zen3D Vcache launch with the lack of leaks. But I could never predict such a fiasco.
 

shady28

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So after all these headlines over 6 months ago about 3D Vcache AMD will launch just ONE cpu and that in 2-3 months from now. And that is not even the 12-core they demoed back then but a mid-tier octacore with lower clocks than its predecessor! Talking about too little too late. As for the games where they showed it winning against the 12900K, these happen (surprise surprise) to be amongst the games where the stock configuration of the 12900K (with the e-cores enabled) is lower than with the e-cores disabled. Disabling the e-cores (or assigning gaming to p-cores only which can be done in software) brings parity in these games. I suspected that something was off with this whole Zen3D Vcache launch with the lack of leaks. But I could never predict such a fiasco.
Lowering the clock like that, at best I think it will be a mixed bag. Some things will be faster where they're hindered by the cache, other things slower. This seems like more of a tech demo of 3D stacking to me. That said, 3D stacking is still very cool, though AMD is not the first at it by a long shot. It would be the first on a high power desktop CPU though (Intel Lakefield was 3D stacked, but very low power, like 10W or some such).
 

rluker5

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Interesting that AMD finds the 12900k = the 5900X (5800X3D=1.1times5900X, 5800X3D=1.1times12900k) at 1080p in SOTTR. Suppose we will have to wait for reviews and not go by what AMD says again.
 
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rluker5

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I find it so weird that only one Ryzen 3D CPU is launching and it's the "middle" tier 5800X3D... but if it really beats the 12900k in gaming I will really LMAO :ROFLMAO:

Zen4 at 5Ghz though should be crazy good!
Halo Infinite doesn't stress modern cpus. Using it is demonstrating low load clocks. High load clocks are yet to be seen.
 

PCWarrior

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Lowering the clock like that, at best I think it will be a mixed bag. Some things will be faster where they're hindered by the cache, other things slower. This seems like more of a tech demo of 3D stacking to me. That said, 3D stacking is still very cool, though AMD is not the first at it by a long shot. It would be the first on a high power desktop CPU though (Intel Lakefield was 3D stacked, but very low power, like 10W or some such).
This is a clear example of overpromising and underdelivering. Clearly it didn’t work out and the product should have been cancelled. But as they made all that noise about it they had to release something and we get this ... thing. Let’s not forget here how many people postponed their upgrades waiting over this mythical 3DVcache cpu lineup…
 
Just playing devils advocate here. As AMD are having issues getting enough production of their existing CPU’s hence ignoring the lower tier/lower margin market. Could it be the only way to get any volume of production to market was to focus on a single cpu and they are just focusing on the one with the highest expected volume/profit margin.
 

Makaveli

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So after all these headlines over 6 months ago about 3D Vcache AMD will launch just ONE cpu and that in 2-3 months from now. And that is not even the 12-core they demoed back then but a mid-tier octacore with lower clocks than its predecessor! Talking about too little too late. As for the games where they showed it winning against the 12900K, these happen (surprise surprise) to be amongst the games where the stock configuration of the 12900K (with the e-cores enabled) is lower than with the e-cores disabled. Disabling the e-cores (or assigning gaming to p-cores only which can be done in software) brings parity in these games. I suspected that something was off with this whole Zen3D Vcache launch with the lack of leaks. But I could never predict such a fiasco.
There is a reason they only going with 8 core model for now.

Why only Ryzen 7, not Ryzen 5/Ryzen 9? Because this is a new project for AMD, they want to find out how a processor like this will be welcomed into the market. A lot of users (myself included) expected AMD to go all-in with a big 16-core version, however anything Ryzen 9 requires two chiplets, and adding the extra V-Cache does require an extra cost in silicon and packaging. During a semiconductor shortage, I was told that this is the best way to get it into the hands of many people while also not in the super high-cost bracket. It also means one single unified 96 MB of L3 cache, without having to deal with two chiplets worth which might not be optimized immediately. Future versions of V-Cache on next-generation products may be expanded to other Ryzen members of the family.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces
 

shady28

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Just playing devils advocate here. As AMD are having issues getting enough production of their existing CPU’s hence ignoring the lower tier/lower margin market. Could it be the only way to get any volume of production to market was to focus on a single cpu and they are just focusing on the one with the highest expected volume/profit margin.
Well with one sku, it's probably about time to market, like they didn't have enough time to get a full line-up so they just did one chip.

I seriously doubt they will have any volume to speak of to sell. They did this same thing with Zen 3, only 1M Zen 3 were made in 2020. That may sound like a lot, but it isn't. The PC market is like 300M per year. I totally expect this to be a repeat of that paper launch fiasco that the enthusiast press largely gave AMD a pass on.

 
Hm... I have to say this felt really lukewarm to me.

Sure, I appreciate having the 5800X with the 3D cache instead of upselling the working chiplets, but not even a hint for a lower SKU with it feels bad, lol. Let's hope pricing is not stupid. They are comparing it to the 12900K, so that alone gives me a really bad feeling for pricing. I'm also reading between the lines that CPU is gonna be hot; or hotter, I should say. There's a reson they had to shave off some Hertz from it and I doubt it's power consumption alone. Anyway, it remains to be seen. At least it looks like the performance is there if you can keep it cool enough to allow PBO to run at higher clocks. And I don't think power consumption will be that bad. It'll just be hot, I'm sure.

And everything else feels so far away that it's kind of a non-starter. Not even a mention to RDNA3 stuff!

Oh welp. Patience I guess?

Regards.
 

VforV

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As a 5600X owner the 5800X3D will actually be a nice upgrade for me, if/when I decide to upgrade to it. So no matter how weird this looks, I'm fine with it. I don't see 5900X/5950X owners being interested in this though.

It also means it will be not as expensive as the 12900k while equaling it/beating it. It will also not be as expensive as a Ryzen 9 with V-cache would have been. So all those points are pluses.

The fact that Zen4 launches in less than 6 months after 5800X3D also is very telling. Their focus is on next gen.
 

VforV

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Interesting that AMD finds the 12900k = the 5900X (5800X3D=1.1times5900X, 5800X3D=1.1times12900k) at 1080p in SOTTR. Suppose we will have to wait for reviews and not go by what AMD says again.
The fact that AMD slides show even the less flattering results and ties and not only cherry picked wins, AS INTEL DOES in all their promo slides, this plus the slides in all the other generations before shown by AMD which were correct, tells me they are not lying and I expect as before, the trusted reviews to come in margin of error of them.
 
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spongiemaster

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The fact that Zen4 launches in less than 6 months after 5800X3D also is very telling.
Correct. It shows that 3D development didn't go as planned. If development had gone to plan, there wouldn't be only one sku, and that sku wouldn't get released 18 months after Zen 3's launch and maybe only 6-9 months before Zen 4. The logical release schedule would have been about a year after Zen3 and a year before Zen 4, while going head to head with the just released Alder Lake. If development went as a planned, you don't demo a 5900x with 3d cache in your grand unveiling and then only release a lower end CPU almost a year later.

As others have said, this looks like a proof of concept release. Hopefully, AMD will get it hammered out and bring it to a broader range of CPU's. The top end of the Zen 4 product range with this could be very interesting.
 
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Geef

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I'll be interested once this comes out and real tests can begin. Finding out where the stacked cache really makes a difference and what programs it makes the most/least difference vs normal.

Also I wonder if they will do it with a 5600X3D? Since 5600X has a different amount of cache than 5800X, will the 5600X3D have 72MB of cache?
 

Umfriend

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I really wished AMD did a quad-channel CPU to feed the iGPU. It seems like such a good trade-off to me to have better GFX at rather low cost, both with respect to power consumption and to actual real estate (saving a dGPU + dedicated memory). I realize the MB may need to have additional layers but that can be used for other stuff perhaps as well. For a 15W device, it might not be that helpfull, but beef the 15W up to 25/35W and there is a huge gain possible. I need CPU + I/O, GFX is secondary and it is frustrating how higher-end mobile CPUs almost always get coupled with dGPUs.
 
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btmedic04

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success of the 5800x3d will depend on price. if it matches at worst, and beats the 12900k in gaming for less money, they will sell in droves. if amd tries to price match with the 12900k, then this will be a flop. I was a bit disappointed not seeing a full line up of x3d cpus, but then i realized it makes more sense to prioritize the server market with these dies with 3d v-cache. the price mark-up there is exponentially higher than on the desktop segment.
 

hannibal

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There is good reason for only 5800X3D. The price will be between 5900x and 12900KF, so about $550... It is the only slow where this chip is price competative!
It is expensive to make, but it is only marginally faster than 5900x in games. So it can not be much more expensive than 5900x.
5950X3D would cost $1100+ and it would not faster at the games and also not faster than normal 5950x in most tasks, so only 5800X3D makes any sense. 5600X3D at $500+ price would be a hard sell...
As a halo flagship product 5800X3D makes more sense!

Interesting to see if there will be also ZEN4 upgrades later with 3D cache at the higher priced segments after normal Zen4 is released at the end of this year? Or do they release 3d cache version at the same time as normal?
My money is that if Zen4 with out 3D cache is fast enough they only release normal versions. If Intel is faster at the games, AMD will release flagship 3D version at the same time.
 
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