News AMD Teases 5nm Ryzen 7000 ‘Raphael’ Zen 4 CPUs, Unveils Ryzen 7 5800X3D with 96MB of L3 Cache

[VforV]

Frank Azor just answered all these question about 5800X3D in a new interview > AMD Talks Next-Gen AM5 ‘Ryzen 7000’ Platform Longevity, Why Ryzen 7 5800X3D Is The Only V-Cache Option

 

[ottonis]

Frank Azor just answered all these question about 5800X3D in a new interview > AMD Talks Next-Gen AM5 ‘Ryzen 7000’ Platform Longevity, Why Ryzen 7 5800X3D Is The Only V-Cache Option

Great link, thanks for sharing.

 

[spongiemaster]

So that names Epyc, because Ryzen is not their highest end product.

Yes, Lisa was announcing the production of Epyc CPU's at a presentation unveiling the technology behind AMD's fastest gaming CPU to date. That makes total sense.

 

[spongiemaster]

Frank Azor just answered all these question about 5800X3D in a new interview > AMD Talks Next-Gen AM5 ‘Ryzen 7000’ Platform Longevity, Why Ryzen 7 5800X3D Is The Only V-Cache Option

"It's a technology that today is benefitting games and gamers so we really wanted to put in on the best gaming processor and that's the 5800."

Coincidently, or not, THG just posted a best gaming cpu recommendations article. Out of 6 category winners and 3 alternative recommendations, the 5800x wasn't selected for any of them. In fact, the 5800 was the only 5000 series CPU with that distinction, the other 3 all were selected as alternative options. In both stock and overclocked settings, the 5900x is more than margin of error faster than the 5800x at more than 5%. If your goal is value, the 5600x is clearly superior to the 5800x with basically identical performance at a lower price point. The 5800x is not AMD's fastest gaming CPU, and not their best value either. So claiming the 5800x is the best gaming CPU is plain marketing misdirection.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html


"As for additional SKUs, and whether we will see V-Cache on future generations, AMD wants to see how well the V-Cache chip is adopted and the initial response from the market and if consumers and of course, AMD itself, see the value in it, then it will be deployed further. "

The only reason people won't want 15% more performance is because it comes in a cost that is too high. Frank flat out says this stuff is expensive:

"V-Cache is an expensive technology and it's pretty awesome."

Now, we're zeroing in on why the 5800x was chosen. This isn't going to be a $50 boost to the price. Now moving to the 5900 or 5950, you have to double the additional cache and this feature is going to be really expensive for those CPU configurations. AMD is trying to avoid having the natives riot from sticker shock. Being slightly faster than Intel isn't going to mean anything if the cost is prohibitively higher.

 

[-Fran-]

For me the best Zen3 CPU has always been the 5800X and it was priced accordingly, which annoyed me. I've been vocal about that since release date.

The 5900X doesn't win more than it loses. In fact, in most gaming scenarios, the one that wins is the one that can boost higher for longer, so in that regard, as long as 8 or less hard threads are being used, the 5800X will come out on top. If the 5900X needs to use more than 6 hard threads it has a penalty which is noticeable. So no, AMD is correct the best gaming CPU is in fact the 5800X. That being said, it is weird they're now calling it that, but I guess that's how marketing works 🙄

I've always cringed when the 5800X is consistently better at gaming than the 5900X and 5950X. Well, as long as there were not more than 8 hard threads. For most games that use very few cors, the 5800X is always faster, even more than the 5600X at least under stock conditions. Enabling PBO for all reduces the difference to zero in such games, so it's kind of a moot point as most people run them with PBO enabled.

Regards.

 

[digitalgriffin]

"It's a technology that today is benefitting games and gamers so we really wanted to put in on the best gaming processor and that's the 5800."

Coincidently, or not, THG just posted a best gaming cpu recommendations article. Out of 6 category winners and 3 alternative recommendations, the 5800x wasn't selected for any of them. In fact, the 5800 was the only 5000 series CPU with that distinction, the other 3 all were selected as alternative options. In both stock and overclocked settings, the 5900x is more than margin of error faster than the 5800x at more than 5%. If your goal is value, the 5600x is clearly superior to the 5800x with basically identical performance at a lower price point. The 5800x is not AMD's fastest gaming CPU, and not their best value either. So claiming the 5800x is the best gaming CPU is plain marketing misdirection.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpus,3986.html


"As for additional SKUs, and whether we will see V-Cache on future generations, AMD wants to see how well the V-Cache chip is adopted and the initial response from the market and if consumers and of course, AMD itself, see the value in it, then it will be deployed further. "

The only reason people won't want 15% more performance is because it comes in a cost that is too high. Frank flat out says this stuff is expensive:

"V-Cache is an expensive technology and it's pretty awesome."

Now, we're zeroing in on why the 5800x was chosen. This isn't going to be a $50 boost to the price. Now moving to the 5900 or 5950, you have to double the additional cache and this feature is going to be really expensive for those CPU configurations. AMD is trying to avoid having the natives riot from sticker shock. Being slightly faster than Intel isn't going to mean anything if the cost is prohibitively higher.

I agree. The 5800x has a lot higher margins than a 5600x. The 5900X was faster than the 5800X. So it's reasonable to assume performance gains would be similar on a 5900X or even better. The larger shared L3 cache will be of huge benefit when it comes to CCX which the 5900X and 5950X have. So I smell a fart with that statement.

Doesn't matter. None of us will see the 5800X3D anyway. They will magically disappear like all the GPU releases being quoted as "I swear we made a ton for sale" This will be followed no one giving exact numbers or where they went. This is a bragging rights only chip, and as such it will be in small numbers where they can get maximum margin.

 

[gargoylenest]

I see this CPU more as a proof of concept/consumer test, otherwise they would have named it ryzen 6800x. Either they want to test its stability with millions of people making all sort of "murphys law" manipulation or check its stability on various application and setup. People buying it will have to accept they are beta testers for the next gen Ryzen.

 

[logainofhades]

Doesn't matter. None of us will see the 5800X3D anyway. They will magically disappear like all the GPU releases being quoted as "I swear we made a ton for sale" This will be followed no one giving exact numbers or where they went. This is a bragging rights only chip, and as such it will be in small numbers where they can get maximum margin.

Yea, I suspect this will be another 3300x.

 

[VforV]

Doesn't matter. None of us will see the 5800X3D anyway. They will magically disappear like all the GPU releases being quoted as "I swear we made a ton for sale" This will be followed no one giving exact numbers or where they went. This is a bragging rights only chip, and as such it will be in small numbers where they can get maximum margin.

I don't think 5800X3D will have less availability than it's greatest competitor, the 12900KS.

If anything the 12900KS is more of a bragging rights CPU and it will be in even lower volumes and even less bought since it will be more expensive.

12900KS can never become the best price/perf gaming CPU that you can get until Zen4/RaptorL, but 5800X3D can become that, if it has good availability + being "cheaper" than 12900KS.

I would be more worried for intel with 12900KS failing vs 5800X3D than vice-versa. But I couldn't care less about intel.

 

[digitalgriffin]

I don't think 5800X3D will have less availability than it's greatest competitor, the 12900KS.

If anything the 12900KS is more of a bragging rights CPU and it will be in even lower volumes and even less bought since it will be more expensive.

12900KS can never become the best price/perf gaming CPU that you can get until Zen4/RaptorL, but 5800X3D can become that, if it has good availability + being "cheaper" than 12900KS.

I would be more worried for intel with 12900KS failing vs 5800X3D than vice-versa. But I couldn't care less about intel.

That's what I'm saying. You'll never see if because it sucks profitability away from higher margin parts. It's a rights bragging chip to get you to stick to their eco systems.

"Hey Chevy makes great Corvette. Possibly among the best high end sports cars in the world and at a great price. But they are sold out for 3 years. Boy they must be good cars! But I can get a similar engine in a Camaro. Maybe I'll get that"

"Hey Ford made a super exotic in the Ford GT. They obviously have a passion for sports cars. So I bet the same passion and knowledge go in the F-150 Lightning and mustang"

And this is why you won't likely see a 5900X3D either. CCX's of two cores benefit from a large L3 cache. Most of those chips are destined for Milan where the profit margins are MUCH higher.

This is the definition of a halo product: Bringing attention to the brand by claiming you have the best, but making availability scarce. It's one of the oldest marketing tools in the book.

 

[Conahl]

This is the definition of a halo product: Bringing attention to the brand by claiming you have the best, but making availability scarce. It's one of the oldest marketing tools in the book.

so, by that definition, do you agree that the 12900ks, is also a halo product ?

 

[larkspur]

so, by that definition, do you agree that the 12900ks, is also a halo product ?

The 12900KS is definitely a halo product. The difference between the 12900KS and the 5800X3D is that the 5800X3D is a niche product designed and marketed specifically for gamers. It will lose to the 5900x and 5950x in a lot of non-gaming workloads. It may even lose to the regular 5800X in some workloads due to its lower clocks. The 12900KS won't lose to any of the lesser (and much cheaper) AL CPUs in any workload.

 

[spongiemaster]

The 12900KS is definitely a halo product. The difference between the 12900KS and the 5800X3D is that the 5800X3D is a niche product designed and marketed specifically for gamers. It will lose to the 5900x and 5950x in a lot of non-gaming workloads. It may even lose to the regular 5800X in some workloads due to its lower clocks. The 12900KS won't lose to any of the lesser (and much cheaper) AL CPUs in any workload.

The other difference is Intel is going to make a killing on profits for the 12900KS since it's just a better binned 12900K and costs them nothing extra to produce. That actually encourages them to produce more of them. The 9900KS was not a difficult CPU to track down. Depending on what AMD charges for the 5800X3D, they may get worse margins than the other 5000 series CPU's which would discourage them from producing the 3D in any sort of volume.